3 Ways to Set a Fence Post (+1 Bonus Method)
Today I'm comparing four different ways to anchor a fence or deck post. Cheers!
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Pair of legends. Absolutely love jeff. I'm sure there are thousands similar to me out there because of jeff. Started watching him years ago. Gave me the confidence and knowledge to do my own bathroom, then a fence, then a patio, fireplace reno, kitchen and other bathroom - did the whole house. Saved probably 100k and enjoyed every minute of it. People found my work and I started getting paid to do it. More bathrooms, ktichens, fences, etc. Paid off my wife's student loans in no time. So if you read this Jeff- I want you to think of the thousands of folks you helped out there.
Maybe millions....hard to get your head around. The man is singlehandedly making the lack of housing crisis- a little less severe
The hero we need, but perhaps not the one we deserve. Thanks Uncle Jeff!.
Even if he doesn’t, I am very excited by your success!!
great show as i have some fence posts to put in next year, and I need one for the gate. Now i know what to pick up. very helpful
My dad's family had a special tool they called a "tamper", homemade. When they began to refill the hole around the post, they would tamp or pack the dirt down hard. I am 69 years old and they were here before I was. I have done the same thing and the posts are pretty sturdy. They have held cows and horses, which if they are tame, doesn't take much.
AGREED. My Dad did it this way, and now I do it this way. Why not just tamp down the dirt you already have? It makes it easier to replace and holds posts good enough.
YES! Lowe's sells what they call a *"69-in Post-hole Digging Bar"* It has a flat end for tamping dirt, and a flared end for digging. I've been using it for years to tamp soil around my posts, and they are just as solid as using cement.
I set a mailbox post two years ago with a different option. It's called Simpson Strong-tie easy Spike. It basically consists of a metal spike with a bracket for a 4x4 post at the top. Installing it was as simple as setting a sacrificial piece of 4x4 in the bracket and driving it into the ground with a sledgehammer. Then just set your post in the bracket, plum and level, and screw in place. Rock solid and if the post ever gets hit by a car or rots out it's as simple as taking a few screws out and setting a new post in the bracket. They make a longer version for fence posts. I have one sitting in my garage for a upcoming project where I have to remove part of a privacy fence and don't want to pour cement to replace the post.
I have always used the dry pour and at times I will put a few galvanized nail into the post which assist the retention to the post. Also I do the same with vinyl fence posts. My neighbor had a fence company come in and put up a fence and after two years they had posts where already lifting.
Good to know nobody is ever removing the fence posts I put in (dry pour). My Brother-in-Law works for city parks and one of the old-timers said you could even just pour the dry concrete and leave it and it would eventually suck up enough moisture from the ground to harden on its own (if you're *really* not in a hurry).
And that’s still perfect for posts, unless you put weight on it.
Just what I need! Gonna put a fence out back this summer.
That was fun to watch. Thank you for sharing!
Doesn't get much better doing DIY experiments with you kid... Beautiful ❤👏🏾👏🏾
I like using the foam for things that may need to be moved or replaced. Like satellite dishes, or similar. Makes removal a breeze.
Good idea
You put an extra half bag into the rapidpost hole - so it'd obviously be heavier. plus more material at the top of the hole, so less wobble.
Plus they didn't put cement in the bottom of the first post, the procedures definitely caused the outcomes to be biased.
That was really good and really informative! Funny too! Saving this video!
wow this was so informative! thanks so much! my fence recently fell down in some high winds (and it wasnt in very deep to begin with)... need to repair it
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw him pour the cement in the hole without a post in it……😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
And it was still the strongest of the three!
@@devinflint5554 I need to get me some of that Canadian concrete…👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
That’s how it is supposed to work… especially when installing vinyl fence, which is hollow.
It’s concrete
Why? What's so comical about it?
Jeff's turning into Hercules with that first post!
Love love love love love you, your post about putting in posts, it's genius, thank you!
My brother found another method. Filled the hole with sand and watered it down. His posts are solid.🙂
The method I've been using for years is similar but I use course gravel instead. It stays very ridged, but can be removed more easily than with concrete. Mainly though it lets water drain away from the post
That's ok but..due to regular moisture the log is damaged in surface level and cut above surface..
Hi Jeff. The way I was taught to set a post here in SW Ontario, was to auger a 8" hole 3' deep, put 6" of dry concrete in the hole, (half a bag) add some water, place the post and back-fill with soil. My fence has been up for 15 years and there has been no movement. The frost shouldn't catch the smooth fence post, and the ball of cement at the bottom will not rise or sink. I was told that all the post needs is a firm bottom so it will not sink. I do believe my method works. Thoughts?
There's a popular channel here in the UK (Proper DIY) where he did the same as you and tested various methods and came up with the exact same results however, he (Stuart) didn't try the last method as I don't think we have those here. We do have fence post spikes where you have to hammer them home but not those exact same things as far as I'm aware. I've got a massive fence to get put up at some point here and while I'm still researching the best method to use, I think I'll be going the concrete mix (first method) and using one of those massive vibrating rods to settle the concrete. Just looking at ways to maximise the longevity of the posts. So far thinking of tanalised posts, coat the bottom in bitumen, concrete in hold, post in, rest of concrete to the top angling the concrete downwards to take water away.
Rapid post looks like the clear winner to me. I will have to see what its going for in my area assuming I can get it (thats an issue here often with products). For a few years I have been wanting to drop a few posts around an old concrete slab we have outback, just 3 or 4 posts for a kind of windbreak and privacy fence. I dont have the back anymore to do concrete unless I just did one at a time taking day or so breaks between, and I dont really have the budget for foam (would basically cost as much or more than the rest of the project finished). But that rapid post dry pour stuff seems the ticket at just a little more than concrete but also very easy to work with and no ticking clock until you are already done.
Looked it up, can get its for $7.33 a bag here! perfect!
Looks like you're ready to do a Cabor toss great video
I believe you can use just about any concrete dry mix the same way as the Rapid Post. I've done that with some standard ready mix and it worked just fine for me.
This was interesting. I've heard sika boom shrinks after awhile so it isn't good for posts. There has to be a better way to drive that metal helical drill in without going in circles. Maybe getting a shorter board and spinning it while standing in place? Or finding a way to attach a drill to spin it? LOL. We used dry pour concrete for gate posts. A hurricane hit and the gate posts snapped off at ground level. Meanwhile, trees next to the fence had fell over and their roots came up. There is another method that wasn't shown here: the key method, but it involves a lot more digging. You dig down and put a horizontal ground rated pressure treated board up against the post to brace it from side to side. You make sure the dirt fills in around it enough that you can put another horizontal board in perpendicular and on top of the first board. I think the boards need to be about 24". If you fill in properly, they brace the post so it won't tip. Then you back fill on top of the boards to hide them.
A practical no BS video. Not a 6-part, cinematic, deck-post odyssey. Thanks, guys! 👍 ~Chris
I used the foam for lamppost when that product first came out. It has held up just fine, surprisingly
They use foam to lift sagging driveways. I too think there is nothing wrong if the foam is right. Besides, the foam might keep it dry better than concrete.
The foam negatively impacts the life & habitat of the San Acitos dirt shrew :(
As always, Great Content!
looooove these comparison videos!
Great video and demo--thanks!!!
We have heavy clay here. All we ever do is put the post in, and throw in dry concrete. There is already water in the hole by the time we start. It will stay wet and cure just fine over time. We have a 36" frost line here. Usually take a post hole digger and widen the base of the hole after auguring it out. That way it tapers and will never come up.
Haven’t watched yet, but THIS is the only circumstance where a dry pour is appropriate. I already know that’s how Jeff is going to do it. Love his ability to discern for us when it is appropriate to take the easy route. Thanks Jeff! You Rock!
Definitely information I can use! Now, about that flat black post holder, would that be considered 'temporary" fencing? I guess I'll have to wait to find out...waiting :)
Excellent video! Nothing like a real-world test to see how a product works. I worked in the signage industry for decades and I've installed thousands of footers. Our engineers would always freak out if we ever dry-poured any smaller footings like for directional signs. I wonder if there is really any difference between a bag of Quikrete and the stuff you used?
This guy is awesome!!!
Jeff you missed one other method and that is just filling the hole with road crush or angular gravel. The advantage of this method is when the post does rot in 20 years you can pull the out and replace it in the same spot. With concrete you are not getting the block of concrete out without some serious work.
No concrete for me .... I'll never get it out.
I used the foam option for a mailbox post cuz I didnt want to deal with concrete, after I poured it in I put a piece of plywood over it with a cutout for the post, so kinda C shaped, and I stood on it and held the post level while it expanded. It was easy to cut the little excess off that spilled out between the post and plywood, and its been very solid for 3 years now. I don't think Id use it for fence posts though.
Just found Jeff a couple of days ago. Learning as I go. Just curious as to why you didn't use the old time method of putting all the dirt you took out of the hole, back into the hole. I did that on a fence to keep the kids in when they were young and then watched the landlord try to pull them out after we left. He to use a bobcat to get them out. Sometimes the old ways are still some of the best. Time to do a little binge watching.
So dry pour for the win ! I’m saving this video 😮
Thats only if you live in the south.
@@charlyrodzzWhat if you live in the Midwest? Also these videos are made in Canada lol.
@@xaviermccloud4586 yeah you can't use dry pour in Canada, lol that wont hold after 1 season.
So for a fence, maybe the takeaway is: concrete with a vibrator (maybe some gravel first?). Taring the post section below grade adds a lot to longevity also. Jeff, do they make helical piles for fence posts, or just point load?
Thanks!
Could you do one using gravel. I've heard it's a good way to secure a post and it drains freely too.
Yes - that's my prefered method.
@@georgeblakey7730 Is it strong enough? What type and size gravel?
@@michaelbirchall2247 I use 3/4" rough gravel (sharp edges not rounded), with a layer in the bottom before placing the post, and I tamp it in layers as I put it in. The posts are very stiff in the hole when done. Here in the foothills of the Rocky Mtns we get very strong winds and my fence posts never seem to move.
@@georgeblakey7730 That's awesome, thank you!
Come here to TX and show us how that screw thing works 🙂
haha. true, true.
Be more like 10hrs rather than 10min lol. I know definitely for my yard.@LifeSurfingDude
😂 Right! Better bring a bobcat and attachment or they'll be no fence built on this property. Our Texas ground laughs at anything else! 😂😂😂
I was wondering how that worked so well 😆
Very entertaining!!
Jeff, can you add some commentary about the screw in? Didn’t really get the same tests done it 🤔
I would generally advise against helical piles (as shown here) for fence posts as the only strength for the fence post is vertical. Any horizontal load, especially perpendicular to the fence (i.e. wind) would easily start to stress the wood at the connection point and eventually will fail. Also, check your local building codes and soil conditions as Helical Piles in my city must be engineered for anything requiring a permit. And the soil around here is clay and rocks. Even engineered powered in helical piles are a struggle around here.
Great vid considering I'm about to replace some posts. So with the rapid post set concrete, is there any need to put some gravel in the bottom of the how first? Or would you suggest doing so? Thanks!
When I did my fence, I found this great metal post product online that had holes, and an open channel design, that meant never worrying about the posts rotting, and much smaller diameter holes to dig and less cement to use. But I can’t find them anymore.
You can set the post using the same method as the rapid post with just a standard bag of concrete mix.
Hey guy😂 great show, one thing I noticed your first post cement seems to be a little dry may have to re do it. Lol 😊
Whether you tamp it with dirt or use concrete, it seems like you're still going to have rot out. I guess that's inevitable with anything but I like the idea of driving galvanized round poles or steel poles and putting a drilled or hollow post over it.
I had to repeat to see if I heard you correctly regarding the truck. I’m anxiously waiting to see you knock these with your truck.
I've found that when using the cement, you want to build a bit of a mound above the dirt level. Just pouring it flat, especially below the dirt level, means the water is going to pool at the base of the post. So you could have made it nice and deep with lots of concrete but 10-15 years it will have rotted out at the top of the concrete. Gotta have water running away from the post and no dirt on it.
if you have the opportunity, can you do a video on putting up a fence going up a hill. I have a short hill but enough that it may be a problem for dogs to jump the fence if they get the angle right. Also sight lines to get privacy. Another issue I have is I have an 8-foot fence, but I can see into my neighbor's backyard from my bedroom window. Which also means they can see into my bedroom. What are some elegant ways to increase privacy for both of us? It is in a location where the window is about 6 foot from the fence. Thanks for the videos.
Depends upon the soil too. At a 4' depth the post should not move that much once set. The dirt will give under pressure creating space for post movement. The dry pour surprised me tho.
You ever do diamond piers?
I live within 20 miles of Mammoth Cave. The land here is known as Karst. Rock is guaranteed by the time you reach 1 foot. How am I supposed to dig a post hole...or 40?
Jeff. Where did you get that helical post, that you had to turn and turn?
Question my instructions tell me the tub spout should not be more than 11” below the valve, what are your thoughts.
Do u have a chain link or wood fence build video. Wanna try to do the work this spring. Had estimates over $6500 cant pay it now
Jeff said he didn’t see value of the foam. Although it may not have secured the post as well, nobody is breaking their back loading it in and out of truck beds or carry the stuff to the site.
And I think it's especially suited to non-structural stuff: mailboxes, signs, etc. It's also practically foolproof. No mixing ratios to get right, etc.
You're supposed to agitate and tamper wet concrete to make sure it's all the way down and around the post.
Exactly. This is why the quick post cement mix broke apart so easily.
Regarding the foam…it two distinct advantages, extremely light weight, and not very messy, and pretty easy to use. You DO have to move fast. In a static row of fencing it would work great, but for a corner or gate post, it won’t have the durability of concrete. And it is way more expensive. It was $12 when I bought it, and I thought that was steep. We had 2 posts where we tried it, and after five years of regular use of the gate, it is showing signs of needing to be replaced.
Now which method is best for deck attached to house method?
I was quite surprised by that dry poured concrete, it would be interesting to see if a well poured somewhat sloppy regular concrete would have done better.
Thanks for sharing this. For your friends in western Canada, what would be the equivalent of the dry pour concrete as we have different stuff (seems to all be quickcrete products)? Same like for drywall mud, what we have available the west is slightly different than in the east (for example, we can't get the brown mud, even at the drywall stores) The possible equivalents I can see are either the 'red bag' fast set stuff, or we also have a product called 'post haste' available which is supposed to be a fast setting 20 min concrete you can use for fence and deck posts. If you are around Thunder Bay you can grab a bag, or I might be able to send to you to test it.
Actually, after doing a bit more digging it looks like the red bag quickcrete might be the winner. Based on the Manufacturer's own specs it looks like the post haste may be overhyped, overpriced, and too fast-setting for questionable strength.
@@user-sm6lt9mf9tI think they sell a quickrete fence n post. Do they have that out west?
@@YellowBunchofBananas It might be what they call Post Haste here. Haven't actually seen the fence n post yet.
@@user-sm6lt9mf9t Ah so some further research suggests Quikrete in Ontario is a different company than in the west where it looks to be made by Target Products. So even that's not the same stuff!
Wouldn’t the value of the foam be it’s resistance to water and heat/cold cycle that would crack the cement?
Do you think the dry pour rapid post would hold up in Ontario climate? I was a bit confused by your comments. Used a slab might not work but as a post footing, do you think it will crack like that or probably not because it’s contained in a hole? Great video
Even if it cracks it's in a narrow 4 ft deep hole, it'll still stay in one piece and perform like before.
Can’t help but feel after a couple freeze thaw cycles the mixed concrete is still the best way to go.
Wow it looks warm in Canada this winter
this was filmed over summer
@@SweetyetS0ur Aye summer filming, although it has been very warm though for the most part. At least here in Alberta outside a week or so of really nasty weather.
I tried the expansion foam because the previous posts set in concrete were rotted - sadly the foam was ineffective because to dig out the posts, you need to dig a wider hole to get everything out, this makes the foam mold like a top pattern which doesn't help keep the post level nor sturdy. Here's my recommendation to people. Buy the expansion foam, but ALSO use the concrete. Dip the posts in the foam mixture so that it SEALS the concrete from absorbing water over time, and then use the concrete to set the posts. This is a modern take on the Japanese Shou Sugi Ban technique.
Wonder if the pour before the post insert is what made the difference in the rapid post since it was the only one to penetrate to the bottom of the post 🤔
So, i really want to go with the Rapid Post. I'm only building a t-post fence gate, not a porch, nothing that humans will walk on, just an open/close fence gate for mowers and my dog. I want to hold the t-posts in the ground with rapid post. Would that be an okay move? I do live in the south. All the way in Savannah, GA.
How much time before the wood in cement (or foam) starts rotting? I am wondering what is the best way for a post fence in order to stay plumb and not rotting for the longest period of time in northern Canada?
Use gravel instead - the water will drain away if the water table is lower than the post bottom.
Foam is horrible btw. I did a section of my fence with it, wind has crushed the foam and now all the post wobble. I am about to have to redo them all. Fun.
I used the foam method for my mailbox post.. I would not use it for anything that would see lateral movement (fence posts in windy areas).. and nothing that is load bearing
what lowes did he buy his post foam from because in my area its $15 and can be bought in bulk even cheaper
Drop your dry pour in the hole add water to the hole and keep it wet 24 hrs. Pro tip used a stick or rebar to pack and poke as you add water.
The metal pole depends on your soil I prefer concrete with metal to keep the post of the ground
Could those posts have been pulled out of the ground as easily if the post holes had been flared at the bottom?
If youre in Canada with a deep frost line the answer is none of these. 1/4 down gravel is what we have to use with a 6ft frost line. Post holes for 48" deep and the gravel prevents the posts from being heaved by freeze/thaw and still allows drainage.
Did you put gravel at the bottom
The one other advantage of the foamed in fence post is it is less prone to frost movement then a concrete post
Please, what are those last black blocks called?
That rapid post is amazing stuff, eh?
4' deep? Is that your areas frost line or in general for a fence or deck post?
I think that is just deeper than the frost line where they are at. But I never actually see anyone go as deep as 4'. Unless those guys are 8' tall, those holes they dug are no bigger than 2.5' deep.
The helical method is strange. Obviously the metal itself will remain plumb, but it does nothing for the post in that respect. So is it for posts at all or just to create a really solid anchor? Awesome videos Jeff! - from Waterloo
with two posts and cross braces, they will keep each other plumb in one direction. Tie to house or two more posts in a square for plumb in the other direction. In reality, even the concrete and foam posts would gain a lot of strength when braced against other posts. Fencing is the only scenario where you really have to worry about the individual post strength against horizontal loads due to wind.
Soils vary, but I would never use concrete (and probably not foam either) to bury a fence post in the US Midwest. Ask a farmer. Clay soils dam in moisture. Concrete is a sponge. 8 inches of rock at the bottom of the hole, then a concrete disk (or cultivator disk) as a stable platform, then more rock, and then tamp ALL of the soil back into the hole. Goal is to send any water to the bottom of the hole below the post. That all being said, I will use steel in any future fencing endeavors…pressure treated is worthless since they removed the arsenic. I will use concrete with the steel.
I dont know if u consider Rapid Post the same as a bag of Dry Sacrete. Put water in the hole, pour your bag or 2 of Sacrete, plunge eith a rod and let her go?
Thats what an extra half bag poured under the post will get ya! Lol
I think I developed a hernia watching you man handle those posts out of the ground. 😂😂
I'm in Chicago a fence guy around here uses crushed rock instead of concrete it drains better and post doesn't rot and reduces the chance of dislodging, I was wondering if wrapping the post in joist tape or something else would prevent rotting as well extra layer of security
It's oldschool, all electric post was setup that way with crushed rock, and tar paint. now you can still burn the ground part
How big are the holes in the ground?
I challenge you to come to my neighborhood and try to use these Pylex... You will quit trying in less than 1 hour. Interesting comparison, just not sure how long the rapid post will last after a few winter cycles.
I would never use the foam. It actually shrinks a bit over time leaving the post loose. I have always used the normal concrete and shoveled it into the hole. I use a stick the help the cement settle properly (since i dont have a way to vibrate it). I have never had a problem with any of my posts.
If you are taking your posts down 4 feet, do you really need concrete? Well only if you want your post to swell up and break the concrete. At 4 ft down, you are below the frost layer, so that post, if the dirt is compacted under it, will not move. Maybe if you want a wider base(full 8 in hole), a good 8 in patio stone can work. (Sorry I did not know you were that far north., but a big foot base in a good base.)
Rapid post for sure.
Love seeing the wind turbines in the back. I don't know why.
There is another brand expanding foam post stuff that works way better than the Sika. It is called fast 2k. Another KZheadr showed the differences between the two and fast 2k expanded more, didn’t shrink back, and was rock hard. Where as Sika shrank making it wobble and foam is squishy.
I believe if we put wood on concrete after few years, the wood will be decompose is it true?
It’s all pressure treated lumber, but yeah eventually it will rot out either from the concrete or the moisture in the ground. It just takes about 15-25 years. You’d likely be rebuilding your shed or part of your deck by then anyhow.
Huh my old man usually used base gravel at the bottom of his posts I assumed it was to give him a level base with and filled in the larger voids of the hole before pouring concrete. This seems like a quick and dirty way to do it, would that concrete even be fully cured after only a few weeks in the ground? Guess it doesn’t really matter for the purposes of the test and it’s a good example of how long it can take for concrete to setup and then be built on.
Gravel at the bottom was probably to keep water from easily soaking into the end-grain of the post.
1:33 Silicosis ain't no joke, son.
Isn't that foam specifically labeled "not for structural use"?