Does the Thickness of Your Oil Matter? | Engine Masters FULL EPISODE | MotorTrend
With so many oil weights and combinations on the market, the crew sets out to show how different weights behave, perform and react inside your engine under operating conditions. While it only scratches the surface, expect a primer on oil weights and how differing weights affect horsepower, pressure and resilience to temperature.
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What surprised you most about these tests?
At the dragstrip running to naturally acid on greasing gas change the oil every third pass An extremely good day I could change the oil or 4 times
I am most surprised that Amsoil didn't sponsor it. I just switched over to Amsoil in my truck, lobsterboat and skiff. Now I have to switch to this new oil.
That the thicker oil did better, because of the things you stated, and we all know by less power is needed to turn a thinner oiled motor, yet didnt make more power. Im not no huge horsepower guy, always floating in the 400-500 hp range in my cars, but ive built all my own motors, and since it came out, ive always just run the straight 50 weight vr1 valvoline.
That heavy oil helps ring seal. Interesting episode
What makes conclude that that ring seal was better with the thicker oil .... was blow-by measured ?? I would have thought that more "leakage" from the thinner oil would mean more parasitic drag inside the engine .... ??
You should always base your oil viscosity choice on your bearing clearances, regardless of power. A few hp isn't worth accelerated wearing bearings
Yes, and oil temp.
@@Resistculturaldecline you're right. Should have mentioned this as well.
@@Ragnarok1979 I know whatcha mean, I'm just going for my cheap brownie-points. 😉
Unless you are not building an engine to last but an engine to win at whatever it may be.every little bit counts somtimes.
Which bearing clearance ? Crank caps? Cam bearings, connection rod to crank? Each has different clearances; which is prioritized ?
I'm not surprised at all. We run Competition Eliminator and years ago on the dyno we switched out the 30-weight break-in oil for Royal Purple #9 (aka pro stock oil) and lost 20hp. Put the break-in oil back in and picked it right back up. Ring seal is king!
✓ exactly
The interesting thing to remember is when looking at oil pressure, is that pressure is actually the measurement of two things combined; flow, and resistance to flow. In theory, due to easier pumping, the thinner oil will generate less pressure (as we saw here) and a lot of people see that as less protection. I look at it as more that the oil generates less resistance, creating greater flow, making it so you have more fresh oil being pumped into your bearings, so as long as you arent overcoming your film strength based on the size of a given oil molecule, you are better pulling heat our of your journals, which can only be a benefit to engine longevity. The ring seal thing is a whole other kettle of fish i hadnt considered however.
You could only be sure of that if you did a volume flow test of the oil at all temps and pressures.
the problem with the thinner oil is it literally breaks down and allows alot of wear in the name of emissions and mpg alot of the newer engines are not lasting as long as the late 90's and 2000's engines that had 5w30 spec'd
@96cr It doesn't break down any quicker, it's just that the oil molecule cluster is smaller, so it gets squished of the journals easier, especially at slower engine speeds when it's not making the same pumping volume. In very modern engines with a variable geometry oil pump, it's less of a big deal because they can compensate for the low rpms, in something a little older, not so much.
@@96cr It's all relative! You seem to be inferring that 5W30 is thick oil, whereas many would say it's already too thin and they prefer to run 10W40, 10W50, 10W60 etc. It all depends, doesn't it? Friction vs film strength, etc. Penrite in Australia even sell a "30W70" -- this is an extrapolated grade since neither 30W or SAE 70 engine oils officially exist! Generally 0W20, 0W16 & 0W8 (noting that previously it was just SAE 20 for everything under 9.3 cSt , and SAE 16 and SAE 8 are just further subdivisions which have been added) are going to be specced for "eco" cars like the Toyota Prius for maximum fuel economy on the assumption the engine will never be driven hard and the oil will never get particularly hot.
@@TassieLorenzo the new toyotas actually have 0w-8 now
The same test with a straight 30w would be interesting.
I just wanted to mention that not only does a thicker oil seal the rings better but they also keep fuel out of the oil better for some reason. My direct injection pushes more fuel into crankcase with thinner oils and also the fuel reduces protection so I use thicker than suggested spec oil.
Good point!
You've got a good head on your shoulders
A lot of new factory engines have low tension rings.
@@duckwacker8720 well it's a relationship: dynamic moving piston + cylinder walls. Some get the job done and some don't. Its a balancing act as usual.
I'm not sure what the owners manual says for your car, But most give a range of oil viscosities that can be used. Though some do not, and using a thicker oil can..... and will damage the engine. For example the 4 cylinder non-hybrid Camry (not sure about the Hybrid), last I heard...... The oil pump was tuned for 0W16 (from memory it's electrically driven, not mechanically), with the owners manual stating that in an emergency the oil can be topped up with 0W20 But at the next oil change 0W16 must be used. From memory and from what I remember reading online, some people didn't realise this and were using 5W30...... It did not end well.......
Bottom line takeaway for me is to run the correct viscosity oil for your engine clearances but, run it warmed up hot so it’s doing its lubrication job but allowing the most power. I think this is what racers have been doing forever even if they didn’t fully understand the science.
I did a study of oil viscosity versus engine wear. It was suggested by some engineers in Detroit at their customer training school. They said that thicker oil would provide a little better protraction from dirt in the oil. I was looking at a big heavy piece of industrial equipment used around the clock on a schedule. The mechanics thought it wasn't true but went along with the trial. I thought that it did prolong the Ford industrial engine a little longer than the thinner oil. This was 50 weight versus 30 weight. Any way I quit auguring the point and solved the problem, as I understood it, by changing the engine to a Perkins diesel, which was easier to keep the dirt out of. Fun in a big Canadian aluminum smelter!
In some racing, it is common, and proven to work. Changing both viscosity and the amount of oil, to lower the ET. We can drop two viscosity levels and use 1-2 fewer quarts of oil and see a substantial change. It's part of what we call "switching from bracket mode to heads up mode."
In a previous episode, engine masters proved that a few quarts less oil will make a noticeable amount of more HP.
Another thing to consider with a hydraulic cam is that thicker oil is less likely to allow the lifters to bleed down. That means you get more lift with thicker oil. I'd be interested to see what happened with the same test using solid lifters.
This was the comment I was just about to make. I wonder how much of that bot at the top end is due to lifters
another thing thats always sealed my choice in oils. shear strength. it sounds funny but its crucial. think about gear lube its super thick and takes the worst abuse its highly resistant to shear forces. oil does the same as it thickens usually. so 5w-30 has a much weaker shear strength that 10w-30 and its really not much thicker of an oil. 10w-30 also has better stiction so it stays in the top of the engine better than thinner oils so it has atleast an oil film on cold starts that also have the most damaging forces. many noisy engines on startup quiet down with 10w-30 because its preventing damage. i always run good quality synthetic oil and my motors almost always look great inside whenever their opened up. one of them the oil was always honey color at the end of its oil changes and that thing only knew abuse.
@@chehystpewpur4754Just remember two things. One is that the bottle label is somewhat meaningless. It pays to look at the hot and cold viscosity specs. 2nd is that one model of oil can have better flow and also offer higher shear strength than another oil that is "thicker". The HTHS index answers this question as do tests you can run at home and wear scar tests a few people have run on the models of oil you are looking at.
They don't bleed down rapidly enough for viscosity to make ANY difference in lift when the engine is running.
@@jamesmedina2062 hmm it seems you were too busy looking for what i said wrong to see what i said. good quality oil. so basically all you said is what i already fingered out. run what you need. not garbage.
I wonder what the hp and torque difference would be, if any, between conventional oil and synthetic oil of the same weight.
Steve crème brûlée has something on the back of his head
The correct oil level in your crankcase will give you far more horsepower than thinner oil. 35 years of swinging a wrench: oil level in the middle of the add/full range = perfect. Heavier oil complementing ring seal is very real, so is high rpm scouring and scoring protection from higher film strength oils.
I wish you had mentioned what the viscosity index is on that oil. A synthetic blend oil will be 80-85% group 2 oil, with 15-20% group 3 hydrocracked oil added. With a viscosity index somewhere between 100 to 120. I would like to see this same test repeated with a group 4 PAO oil and a group 5 ester based oil with viscosity indexes in the 175 to 200+ range.
Amsoil said that they tested every synthetic-blend oil in the marketplace, where they found the actual the percentage of synthetic oil (Group III) was anywhere from a low of 1% to a high of 15%. Buyer beware!
Worked for a huge logistics company for 30 years. This is what maintenance told me.. run the recommended oil viscosity for climate/season temps. The reason is this . The oil jets and orifices are designed to provide a certian rage or flow per minute. If you go thicker of thinner you will actually starve the surfaces of oil . The company purchased 250 power u its with Cummings 16l engines. The recommended oil was 5-40 . Because of the huge stock pile and older units maintenance was instructed to use the 15-40 . After about 650k miles these new units started having issues. Cummings discovered that the wrong oil wieght was being used. Every single engine was DENIED a warranty claim. That was a 25, 000,000 million dollar mistake.
I call bullshit.
very interesting video. I really didn't think there was going to be that much of a gain in power just due to the oil temperature, it really made a fair difference. Thanks for putting that together guys!
I and a few older guys were running durablend before they even came out with it, we mix are own, It worked quite well; rings love oil it make some seal producing more horsepower moving parts like synthetic oil. The Best of both worlds and the high mileage package.
Full syn 5w40 in everything is the way to go. 5w for winter starts, 40 for summer heat. Buy it gallon jugs for everything and save.
I've noticed a difference in my high mile Toyota with thicker. Overseas the recommended viscosity is 10-40 but with us spec is api energy conserving 5-30. When i run thicker oil i notice slightly better power and i think it's because of ring seal on an old engine
Same. I run 10w40 in my 22re and it’s way smoother than 5w30/10w30. I pretty much run 10w40 in everything I’ve ever owned
Use 0w40 Mobil 1...your welcome.
@@kskip4242or LiquiMoly 0w40 even better still
@@kskip4242I was a mobil 1 believer until I had two cars consume m1 and didn't burn a drop of Kendall, Castrol, Pennsoil/shell .
@kskip4242 how about 5w40 ? I got a 1zz with 260k km up north and it's starting to burn a bit. Would there be any downsides going to 5w40 from 5w30?
Awesome job with this 1.. Its amazing how much oil actually affects hp gains aswell as affecting other aspects of how well the engines run and the level of protection they receive with different types(viscosities) of oil
Great testing gentlemen! Thank you!
I was driving my mustang earlier today 10.5:1 347 , 6 spd, 4.30s and noticed when it has been running for a while with 20w50 in it it seems happy . Oil temp is at around 200-210 degrees and water temp at 170-180. It was around 80 degrees outside. I was sort of thinking it would be hot but it definitely seems happy and running really good. Derale dual fans and champion radiator.
I just switched to this (GP1) from the driven HR4. Running 20W - 50 in a small block stroker with high compression. So far so good. It also has a light green tint to it, which, for me, is easier to read on the dipstick.
I like 20w50 because it sticks to parts. That's what I run and when I disassembled my 302, I was surprised how all the pushrods were coated with oil
@@XxMusclecarsxX And you aren't gonna take the hot rod out on salty winter roads, so overly thick oil in January isn't as much of a concern as it would be on a daily.
What exactly are you happy with about that oil. If you put super tech oil in you wouldn’t have and change at least you can tell so what is it exactly that you like about it other than feeling the need to comment without having some proof or a change that happens
in my air cooled bike I run 20w50 just because it is hitting 110deg here in Texas so if it is getting over 212 deg I want that little extra chance it will not allow parts to touch ..when it gets cold will drop back to 10w40
the best video tutorial about engine oils thank you very much 🙏
I live in Florida always run 20-50 in all my old cars with no thermostat currently have a 2.2 s-10 with worn rings works great!
Being that I have bushed pressure fed roller lifters, I'll stay with the thinnest oil that gives me the Hot pressure I want. I think that the thinner oil feeds that space which is very small between the bushed outer and the steel pin. I've also noticed that if I use a thick oil my oil temp is a little higher in the pan. I like my HOT idle @1100rpm about 25lbs. if I touch the throttle it quickly increases. I'm good with that.
A lot of good information in this vid. Good explanation of a complicated subject
On tight clearance LS6 I dynod with 20/50 and then changed to 5/30. 2 pulls each and gained 14hp with the 5/30
We run lots of different viscosities, depending on the application. I've ran Alisyn
I agree, we run straight 30 wt. In our hot rod engines with .003 thou. On the mains, .002 on the rods, we use HX bearings with plus .001 thou. Clearance, or grind the crank to our specs. !
I’ve read many articles from oil engineers and gurus and the general consensus is, for bone stock engines, is that thinner oil is better and to run as thin an oil as possible. The reason being that thinner oil dissipates heat better and gets to moving parts faster, especially in modern engines with overhead cams etc. Of course there are exceptions such as the case of my tired worn out original 396 which burns oil badly with anything less than 20w50 or straight 50 weight.
With modern oil pumps that are variable, yes. With mechanical oil pumps, the thicker oil moves to your parts at the same speed because the pump is positive displacement, and fluid doesn't compress. Just imparts more stress on the pump, and puts the oil filter into bypass more often upon start up.
@@ResistculturaldeclineYou are forgetting the oil pressure regulation valve. Thick oil will build pressure faster and higher when cold and will open the pressure regulation valve. This means less oil going through the engine and more getting bypassed back into the oil pan. So, your conclusion is wrong. Thinner oil will absolutely get circulated through the engine faster than a thick oil during cold start.
@@LTVoyager I spoke directly to that with the bypass valve. The bypassed oil goes into circulation through the engine, just unfiltered.
@@Resistculturaldecline No, you confused the bypass in the oil filter with the pressure regulation valve in the oil pump itself or in the engine block on some designs. Completely different components with different purposes.
@LTVoyager I was mentioning upon start-up. The pump regulator, being about 5x the psi rating of the oil filter bypass should all be well and good unless the oil viscosity is grossly incorrect for the cold temps, or if someone cranks up a cold engine and goes smashing on it right away. Otherwise, a simple start up with a reasonable viscosity range should not bypass at the pump, or bypass enough to create any issue as an engine at start-up rpm only needs around 10lbs - 15lbs oil pressure.
I personally run 15/40 rotella diesel oil in everything I own from my lawnmower to my Dakota truck it’s a great oil my main belief is you need to change your oil close to the rated intervals that the oil recommends but changing your filter is a must and it doesn’t hurt to change it and run the old oil to get a little extra life out of it I would only do it because I’m to broke to afford the oil but filters are only a couple dollars but everyone is there own master do what you want this is only my personal preference
I see a lot of people running oil that's too heavy. You don't need 20-50 or 20-40 in a street car, when it's cold it's eating up HP and gas mileage and putting a huge load on the oil pump drive shaft and timing chain (if driven from the camshaft) with no benefit. It may even overload the oil bypass valve when using a plus size oil pump and could blow the filter or cause oil leaks. Even hot 40/50 is more then what's usually needed unless they have low oil pressure, in that case it's just a bandaid and not fixing the cause like worn bearings. Cold oil will always be heavy enough to make more then enough pressure, I run 0-30 in my turbo subarus to reduce cold engine load and help get oil to the turbo.
GREAT VIDEO AND EDUCATION. THANKS FOR SHARING. O LEARNED SO MUCH.
Thanks for all your work, Toyota states to use 0-16 to 0-20. but given some warmer climates and stop and go driving which can be hard on oil wouldn't a 0-30 be more beneficial for longevity of the engine, I realize they claim a lighter oil is more fuel efficient and bearing clearances are very tight, would it be harmfull to use a 0-30, I have noticed that people in the know go back and forth about this, even Toyota mechanics .
I run 5w30 mobil 1 in my ls turbo motor, it makes a sally 1400hp on pump gas turning 8800rpm,. bearings look new every time I freshen.
I love these types of videos!
Interesting! Good test! Oil pumps use a lot of power at high pressure... My next step would be to adjust the oil pump relief to find the lowest safe oil pressure for less drag. I went from 70 psi to 45 psi on my boosted 389" SBC and I could feel the difference in the seat of the pants and it picked up about 1 mpg on the street.
Absolutely love these uploads. Great info. I love science =)
Used to work with a guy that put some 15w40 in his Honda CRX because it was free. Within a week he drained it out and went back to the specified oil. He said the car would jot get out of its own way with the thicker oil.
Great informative video. That Driven GP-1 oil is some good stuff. Thanks guys.
This isn't hard to understand, because it's 2023, and I'm 51 years old and have always been interested in mechanical stuff. 100 years from now (if KZhead still exists), people will look back at this type of knowledge like it was something special.
Great Episode. I learned a lot
30 years ago I went to Mobil1. 25/50. Which ofcourse flows so much better when cold. Dry sumped 355 Chev I had to put a softer pressure relief spring in the pump or it had near 100 psi cold. It ran 55psi warm,, oil temps were down 20F. This with 1.8-2 thou down the crank. It uses less power to turn the pump, less oil temp than my previous Pennzoil. Later on I used 15/40 and it made no difference, this a 12-1 7500 rpm n/a engine. I have used Mobil1, Shell, Penrite [Australian] and Valvoline synthetic oils and change it less regularly than mineral oil. Initially I was told no good with roller cams,, it did a lot of race km with no issue. 2000 km and the bearings looked new,, unfortunatly the crank was cracked. That is NOT an oiling issue at all. A good synthetic oil is superior to mineral oil or semi synthetics, They are fine for normal roadcars unless you work them very hard towing or racing.
What matters most is breakdown, temperature and application... when selecting an oil for an engine.
The ring seal theory could be confirmed if you do blow-by monitoring during the testing.
I always wonder if Freiberger has a teleprompter. He speaks so well and so clearly . If he is speaking from notes off the top of his noggin....he is even more clever than I figured he already was. I always love the content and learn tons every time. Thanks so much!
I think it's mostly all him. He's a great public speaker/announcer at drag week, zip tie drags, etc. as well and I don't see how he could possibly have a teleprompter for those. But he project does have some bullet points to read and fills in the space around it
I remember learning about hydronamic lubication in tech. Also the rod spinning in opposite direction as journal creates it's own pressure as long as enough volume. The wedge effect provides a cushion. Been a while since I thought of this.
I had an old 1975 Oldsmobile delta 88. It was worn out. I used straight 30 weight oil in it for over 2 years because it was free where I worked. The only time it was a problem was in the winter if the temperature dropped below 20 degrees Fahrenheit. The lifters would rattle some on start up.
I saw a display and sat thru a briefing about oil weight. I saw that 5-30 was better than 10-30. That was for engines that require a 30 weight oil. The demonstration was impressive. This was 20 years ago.
Very interesting. Thank you. 👍
I feel really good about running 10/40 in my marauder and 20/50 in any push rod engine. The epa for what ever reason is pushing thinner oil and if you shop at Walmart 20/50 and 10/40 is hard to get. Ford retroactively now recommends 5w/20 in everything that's a business decision not a decision from anyone that cares about your engine.
what is not mentioned is the types of oil at different viscosities lubricity, etc....they are using the same brand which is great, at the same time different oils, with different weights, have variances nice video
I think thicker oil would probably have an effect on lifters holding lash at higher rpm especially on worn components.
Would hate to say it but probably not, if that check valve is fucked it wouldnt matter.if the check valve is healty it wouldnt let any liquid pass through it doesent matter oil or water
Great confirming test! I alway rule for thicker oil in this built engines.
Thank you David this is something that I have wondered about . I enjoyed this particular show alot. Thank You 🫶🛻
Finally someone primes their oil filter too! I'm not the only one!
That’s always been my practice as well. I just love (hate) when a filter is installed at a 45 or flat and I can’t filler’up!
But when you do you put the oil in the already filtered spot.
@@psycho-nutkase9233 the oil is as clean as it’ll ever be coming out of the jug 👍
@@psycho-nutkase9233 its new clean oil.........................
My take away is thicker for me moving forward. I have a survivor with an original 51 year old engine that has 128K on it. I some blowby which manifests itself as crankcase pressure and resultant oil leaks at the front seal and lifting the dipstick if I have gotten on the throttle. I have run 15-40 but now I will stay with the thicker viscosity for better ring seal since this car is a cruiser not a racer.
As a sidenote, thick oil will "help" not only to ring seal but also valve seal and seal overall. My dad used to run 80w-90 in his clapped out SAAB v4 since it wouldn't hold regular engine oil. It prolonged the oilfills from hours to days, smelled so you could trow up though...
You know that 80W90 is something like 15W40 engine oil ?
Learnt something! 👍 However the stuff he used was thick as syrups! (Could have been some type industrial oil)
Great episode
I think what we all want to know is...At what mileage should you increase the viscosity of your oil due to engine wear to help preserve or extend engine life, and does that even contribute at all.
You're on a topic that the manufacturer doesn't even supply data for, as they want you to use the same oil right until it blows up. My rule of thumb is if it starts leaking/burning it, I tend to go a little thicker then what was originally in it.
@@Adierit very true, but assuming that engine wear is a thing, and that bearing tolerances might change with age, could a heavier viscosity help extend engine life considering he did mention that different tolerances require different viscosities. Although technically the answer would be yes, some testing and verification would be nice to see. Basically the science to back up this common knowledge.
I use warm engine at idle oil pressure versus oil pressure under load while driving. When you see a big change and the oil is not a nice amber color, you need an oil change as the viscosity of the oil has been reduced by age or contamination. As the engine ages and wears, both idle and under load oil pressure will start to drop. Increasing oil viscosity will bring the pressure back up. If the oil is right for the engine, the oil pressure will not change significantly from low rpm idle to driving under load. Thicker oil will benefit or at least cause no harm to most engines to a point unless they are used in sub zero conditions. Most engines will work fine with oil from 30 to 50 sae. The critical point is to maintain a liquid barrier between engine components. Watch your oil pressure under normal daily driving and use it as a base line.
I have a motorcycle old ninja 650R (2008) with 34000km and started to use some oil. Still has 240PSI on each cylinder and pull like crazy. But when I was running the specified 10w40 oil they valve train was really noisy and the oil consumition was like 300-350ml @ 1000km. With 10w50 now the engine is less noisy and the oil consumition dropped to 200-250ml @ 1000km. Something cool about Kawasaki they specified five different oil viscosity on the service manual that you can use depending on the weather condition and 10W50 is between the recommend oil
@@lexeriwThat's really cool they do that for us.
Glad to see somebody prime the oil filter..
I noticed that the oil ran cooler with the thicker viscosity. Could that have a positive impact on power as well?
The problem with lab testing is they are generally using a brand new engine so everything is based on a brand new engine, but once a vehicle gets broken in everything gets seated in the engine. you start putting mileage on it I believe the viscosity should change because your clearances are going to change.
one thing i know is that on a hot day in LA the oil gets hot and then the psi decreases when your at a stop light to scare you at each light
If oil temp is 240, think about an oil cooler. At 245, install one. Many engines have aftermarket filter adapters available with a built in thermostat to help manage things. Oil does well around the 220 mark most cases, but... additive packages vary, and are near impossible to discuss because of proprietary formulations.
This was very informative about oil and what the numbers mean. I have an old Chev pickup with an original Chev 235ci 6cyl and I am guessing that the clearances are all higher than newer engine specs. Does that mean that I should be using a higher overall oil viscosity? I currently use 20w50. Thanks for this episode! Brian
Pull it apart and check clearance. That will let you know what oil to use
Driven has a chart for oil weight based on bearing clearances. My bone stock 1995 460 will shear oil from heat with these 5 weight oils. Even Rotella diesel oil 15 weight oil it will shear it. So my bearing clearances are wide enough that my guess is that I would need 20 weight oil. Right now it gets monograde Rotella T1 30 weight. With this oil my fuel economy picked up a few tenths. It isn't building frictional heat from a lack of oil pressure in lighter multi weight oil.
@@ScooterLee-ei1ep thanks for the reply. I think I will check the original engine build clearance specs which will give me a starting point and go from there as the miles build up to make changes. It runs great right now so don't think a pull apart is in the immediate future. B
IF the engine is serviceable, eg in decent condition yes you should. Old and fumy with less oil pressure straight 50
The 235 called for 10W30 in the original owners manual, Or SAE20 if you used a single viscosity oil.
I have a 2003 Ford ranger with 257k miles it leaks oil only while the engine runs. I replaced the oil pressure switch which was one of the places it was leaking oil however I still get leaks. Instead of the 5w 20 oil that is on the oil cap I put 5w 30 because since the oil is leaking while it's running have the oil be thicker at operating temperature will decrease oil leakage. Ever since I've done it the leaks has slowed down tremendously I no longer have to add more in between oil changes however is this bad for the engine?
David is the only man I've ever seen flip a camshaft on his shoulder like a baseball bat
I use thick oil on my Honda the motor is worn an gets allot of blow by so if I use the recommended 5-w20 I go threw a quart of oil in about 200 miles witch I do ever two days, I run 5-w40 rn an I have to add oil once a week I noticed I get better compression too
Nice job Frieberger!
Love this show
In modern VVT street engines where 0W 10 or 0W 20 are specified the pressure is regulated more and thicker oil will slow down the cam angle phaser change response time quite a bit.
Would you say its better to thermostatically control oil temp vs running a large external oil cooler?
since 2006 ive used 0W-40 synthetic in every newer vehicle ive owned. never had a problem, and i live in minnesota so we get the hot humid summers and freezing cold winters.
Great work. Would be a good idea to do an oil analysis for fuel dilution to see if you really lost ring seal on the thin oil.
Could the power difference also be from lifter bleed? Older lifters bleeding off pressure less with thicker oil.
What im getting from this video is the thicker oil simply helps ring seal making more power. I think in a normal daily driver application a thinner oil would be the better option or find that middle ground between there because 5-20 and 20-50 is a HUGE gap in oil viscosity and i picked up on that little nugget "thinner oil is better for performace until it comes down to ring seal" Also i dont think someone would be pushing their engine so hard as to NEED 20-50 unless race car applications . Great video very informative :D
Great test and insights! Maybe next to investigate is whether different oil blends (i.e mineral vs semi synthetic vs full synthetic) with same oil weightage has an impact on power and torque output?
Just use full syn Unless your engine predates science
@@0Sirk0mineral oil is said to have better cleaning properties and runing full synth on an engine that isnt spec for it can ruin oil seals and wont burn as well like mineral oil.
Yes! It would be interesting to see if the synthetic racing oils with bucket loads of moly in them (e.g., Redline, Motul 300V, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 4T Racing etc) live up to the hype of reducing friction. Of course you can get mineral racing oils with lots of moly in them too (if you're old school or for rotaries^?). ^ Synthetic vs mineral oil in a rotary is a quite a controversial subject in it's own right!
@@proxypanda4156 "runing full synth on an engine that isnt spec for it can ruin oil seals" Seal compatibility has generally been fixed since the early synthetics of the 70's/80's. "mineral oil is said to have better cleaning properties" Oils like Pennzoil Platinum Ultra (gas to liquid base stock) are very good at keeping dirt in suspension, but whether that's the base stock or the detergent package I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure PAO is excellent at cleaning engines too.
In the 2 stroke world, ring seal is always best for max power.. High strung 2T engines run 16:1 mix for more oil film on the walls to seal the rings better. Most people have a backwards thinking that by using less oil in the mix, you are putting in more gas instead, and the engine will be more crisp.. that is false. the A/F mixture needs to be re calibrated to allow for the extra oil (i.e. jetting size increase) You can probably do the same test using thin engine oil for less pump restrictions, and add a small amount of oil in with the fuel to seal the compression rings better, where in a 4 stroke will see very little oil above the oil control ring.
i have just run in a virgin block with 10 w 40 mineral and factory filter = just changed to 5w30 fast flow synthetic with factory performance filter = yes i can feel the differance = at 7,000 klm 5th oil change .
Brilliant
So how do u know if u should increase the viscosity without damaging the motor? My s4 takes 5w-40 should I even bump up the viscosity from there?
Very cool tests. I am wondering why my car runs a 5w-30 now?
This is one of the most informative videos you've ever done. I've been preaching this forever and not a single person seems to hear me. Lower viscosity for fuel economy, higher for lifetime and power.
With an everyday engine, with say 160k and said for 10w30. Would you run any difference in wates for summer vs winter???
Would have been really good to see the oil pressures and temperatures on a long run. Something that would be similar to multiple laps at a road course.
Yes, ring seal and also ring flutter as the thicker oil will cushion the ring on the piston better. Especially at high rpm.
Very interesting how about a test with a engine with really worn rod and main bearings with very low oil pressure and test the different viscosity oil may effect oil pressure
Good video!
Great video but yes.... appears to be engine specific. Mod motors love the thin oil with the cam phasers and vct, makes them work easy and actuate fast. When Ford went to 5/20 early on (from 5/30 or 10/30) all the purists had a conniption fit and refused to run that thin oil, said they would stick to the 5/30, 10/30 they've always used. We started getting crown vic's, mustangs, even 4v cobras in under warranty with misfire issues.... Turns out the heavy oil was causing excessive lifter pump up and holding the valves from sealing as tolerance was for 0/20 or 5/20 NOT 10/30 or otherwise. I think the ford GT we had to order 0/50 just for that car but don't remember exactly. Not all motors will like the heavier oil, use caution.
if i remember correctly f/wut i hav read, " 5w50 " oil 4 ford sum engines, shears down the oil 2 a 30 weight in a few thousand miles... i used m1 years ago, 1976 2 b xact, it was GONE in a couple months, well down 3 qts, NOT a drop on dipstik, quickly filled it w/3 qts of stp 20w50 i had in garage... car ran just fine w/no diff in oil pressure... now i use AMSOIL & get great mpg...
...My mustang seems to vary a lot for some reason. I think the oil press sending unit might be installed in a weird place or be obstructed. Like from 10 psi at idle up to 60 psi and varies quickly with throttle position. Very weird. But you raise a good point. I had not thought of the cam phasing.
More than anything, I want to know how the different oil weights handle track temperatures. If it's getting up to 300º, what happens to the oil? I'm guessing the 20w won't be able to sufficiently protect the engine. At that point, it doesn't matter which one makes more power.
Thank you. My question is do i have to run break in oil after a cam, springs and rocker upgrade in my L59 5.3?
So the ideal setup may be to run thin oil with tight bearing clearances with some top end lube in the fuel for improved ring sealing.
This is a good test for race, vintage or off road engines, but what about modern engines with variable cam timing systems, piston cooler systems and low friction ring packages?
i think whats missing is, you need to set a timer on how long it reaches the maximum rpm. cause thats also a key how you can be fast.
Watching from Oak Cliff, TX ❤ Yellobelly
I've seen similar results with straight/wt vs multi wt
I've been asking this question for a while. Thanks for the useful information. BUT, I still need to know if the oil additive Ester adds HP. Please do a test about Ester. I use Motul 10w-40 7100 in my bike.
Some drag racers take oil out of the engine to make it warm up faster. We had one remove oil to improve a National Record he had already set on his backup run. He hurt the engine, but made the backup.
Temperature matters as well