Wow this got ugly quick. No start click click no vroom.
Пікірлер
Click click click click… just wanted to add a few more clicks to this video ;)
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Click... There ya go bud, there was one missing. Shocking that 24v starter turned over as well as it did on 12v, bet the windings were getting awful hot though (half the voltage = twice the current if it was turning as fast)
@danmackintosh63252 жыл бұрын
And another click for good measure
@brownwrench2 жыл бұрын
Que autobús es
@01234567898723611 ай бұрын
20 plus years ago at the request of Cat Inc, Delco-Remy redesigned the contact disc inside the solenoid, so if that starter is that age or older may have old design disc. Cat was subject to lawsuit by a large yacht owner, who's boat, with twin Cat engines, burned to the water line. Thru joint failure analysis between Cat and Delco-Remy(as they where called then) a sticking contact disc in a starter caused that boat starter failure. I happened to be the Technician in the Alternator/Starter Lab that day
@johnborn16002 жыл бұрын
I love it. Oh the books that could be written on interesting stories from techs everywhere.
@JonnyFix2 жыл бұрын
Just happened to me in my motor home with original starter good thing we caught it in time
@DavidMartinez-bk2ck Жыл бұрын
Pull the shut down solenoid off the top of the injection pump and if it's wet in there it's the shut down shaft seal leaking, that's the loss of prime location. Worked at a cat dealer truck shop fixed dozens and dozens of those with loss of prime
@yeller95vette2 жыл бұрын
After watching your channel (and others) for quite some time, I think I've come to the conclusion that if someone had something done at another shop even remotely related to a problem, the first thing to do is verify that was was done is indeed proper / valid / correct. Finding the root cause of problems is way better than throwing lots of expensive parts at something until the problem seems to have gone away (for now). Thanks for practicing and teaching the art of actual problem solving!!
@HandyManDM2 жыл бұрын
It will almost always be cheaper to properly diagnose the problem and fix it than to blindly throw parts at it.
@jefferyepstein92102 жыл бұрын
Load up the parts cannon and let it fly!
@kenore40032 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty certain that's not the first time I've seen a bus turn up here with starting problems and it's been down to a 24v starter on a 12v bus.... You'd have thought checking that would be "Cat Engine Repairs 101"
@stuinNorway2 жыл бұрын
Yeah the biggest weakness with the 3208 is all the belts. I had a motorhome and I very same engine in the first time it ever broke down on me the inside belt came off and caught all the other belts and threw them all off. So I recommend changing the belts on that thing every two years regardless. Also the 3208 doesn't have a lift pump that uses vacuum and they're notorious for losing Prime I ended up having to change all the vacuum fuel lines throughout the entire bus and it cured the problem. But those vacuum fuel hoses are hard to find . That is the low coolant light and buzzer in the dash the 3208 uses a manual fuel injector pump on the top of the engine is right behind that big huge plate that you guys are standing in front. The injectors are just pencil injectors. It has a vacuum leak somewhere in the fuel system and it's sucking in air. Add a small 7 PSI fuel pump from the tank to the fuel filter and that should help with the loss of prime. But definitely change the fuel lines
@RickDominick692 жыл бұрын
I seen another comment saying add a fuel pump from Oreillys but it's labeled for gas. He said he used it on his diesel for a couple years no problems. Does it matter?
@mrmotofy2 жыл бұрын
This brings back memories. We had an old truck with a 4-53T that did this same thing. We did this same thing to get it to start. I never found out what the issue was. The starter was replaced during rebuild and the problem went away. I was 16, and used the fan to turn the engine (by hand) a bit. That truck was not for the weak, or for the faint of heart.
@rnreajr91842 жыл бұрын
The transfer pump is a known issue on the 3208 also. the bushing in the front of the pump wears and leaks and allows it to lose prime.
@geraldmccuistion14692 жыл бұрын
I had a 3208 CAT in our 1991 Beaver coach and I had one instance where it lost prime while registering at a campground. I primed it with the manual pump and it started right up. Turned out to be the crimp on the fuel filter was sucking air. I put a new fuel filter on it, which I always carry a spare, and it never missed a beat again. Only time in the 7 years and 50k plus miles that we owned that coach that it ever lost prime. Just a thought on something to consider. That 24 volt starter actually cranking on 12 volts blows my mind. I've not seen that before.
@zmotorsports622 жыл бұрын
would be super slow though
@rawr519192 жыл бұрын
This is a good one, can't wait to see the conclusion to this bus!!
@natevanlandingham19452 жыл бұрын
Scott, there seems to be a higher than average number of goofballs in commercial vehicle/ bus repair. Some of the piss-poor work I've seen you have to "re-repair" is just mind boggling.
@armorer942 жыл бұрын
This one was just stupid
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
I thought so too, but then, Scott sees the goof ups. The quality work doesn’t need his talent.
@Cinder20082 жыл бұрын
There are some sketchy truck repair shops out there, too. Not just bus owners are suffering.
@rnreajr91842 жыл бұрын
I've never worked on commercial vehicles (and only on cars as a hobby) but I suspect there's a lot more variation in them (custom one-offs, very short production runs and modifications to them through their much longer lifespan) than you get with cars so it's much more important for a mechanic to really understand what he's looking at. With cars there's always going to be a first time you work on some specific make/model but chances are you're going to see the same thing in front of you more than once so it's easier to just work on autopilot and do what you always do.
@matthewlovibond9002 жыл бұрын
I'd pull off one of the belts on the mismatched pulley drive. The belt on the larger pulley is doing all the work anyway and the smaller pulley is working against it. Looks like the larger pulley is maybe 1/4" larger diameter, that would be about 3/4" difference in belt travel for each turn of the pulley. Looking at it when running you can see that the belt on the smaller pulley is not doing any work and just wearing both belts faster.
@jimthode2 жыл бұрын
When the teeth on the starter drive get rounded on the end, this can cause it to only engage when the gear alignment is perfect. There is a bevel ground in to them when they are new to ease the engagement.
@DEW4092 жыл бұрын
That kinda doesn't make sense, if the teeth were rounded they would engage easier. And you must not have even watched the video, they found out that it is a 24v starter installed in a 12v bus. The starter solenoid isn't actuating because the voltage is too low
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
If it is a 24volt starter, the solenoid to drive in the bendix will be 24v also. Using 12 volts, the solenoid might not have enough oomph to drive the bendix home. When the bendix drives home it should push in a switch, which will give power to the starter motor. Put a meyer on that bendix switch, to see if the switch in adjusted correctly, or if the voltage is incorrect..
@w2dmw2 жыл бұрын
3208 is a sleeve less engine. make sure he is running. anti-cavitation additive or Cat ELC antifreeze. He is either losing prime or the shutdown solenoid is binding or going bad. Throttle shafts are bad to allow air in around them also.
@geraldmccuistion14692 жыл бұрын
Love the ‘lone wolf 6000’ starter trigger use.
@gregpallett18392 жыл бұрын
heck yes.. sir thanks for sharing dam good stuff love it..
@brianballa30862 жыл бұрын
That 24 volt starter! LOL! Hey at least you didn't burn it up on 12 volts!
@wdavem2 жыл бұрын
Have had several of these motors and one ran daily in my service truck and have had two with the same issue starter solenoid disk is trashed and will start sticking soon. One started cranking by itself almost 30 seconds after turning off key resulting in a starter fire I recommend changing the starter or solenoid, also check throttle shaft seal it goes bad and pump loses prime causing hard starts
@kylefisher2322 жыл бұрын
Great work helping Gary Busey fix his bus.
@r3g3d172 жыл бұрын
So a couple things to think about on the 3208 for priming: there may or may not be a electric lift pump between the tank and the engine fuel pump, make sure it’s working, if it does not have one I would add one. The hand primer pumps often leak and allow air in the fuel system, I would replace it. The injection pump has a shut off solenoid on the top of it, they can stick or the injection pump shutdown rack can stick and allow it not to start. You can check by pulling off the shut off solenoid and push down on the shut down and make sure it springs back up easily. Hope these ideas help on the starting issue.
@GinosGarageUSA2 жыл бұрын
The hand primer leaks when pumping it
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey Aha! Great, that would normally be an easy fix.. but looks like access on that engine is not great.. based on the dangling feet I saw!
@GinosGarageUSA2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey Then my guess is that is where it is sucking air. If it leaks when full, it would suck air when empty
@DaffyDuc692 жыл бұрын
I love the 3208TAs quite a few of my customers have them in their yachts.... Solid engines.....
@MasterDieselMarine2 жыл бұрын
In trucks they were called the 'throw away engine'.......they had a reputation much like the Cripple 555 cummins. Strangely in other applications like tractors they did really well.
@wazza33racer2 жыл бұрын
The 3208 is probably the worst cat engine ever made and one of the worst diesel engines ever made. They are throw a way engines and for the owners of those engines the happiest day in their lives is the day they either re-power the vehicle or sell it. The 3208 has a displacement of 10.6L which is 636 cubic inches and it is a heavy pig at nearly 1900lbs for the ta version. My business specializes in repowering and I have re-powered 2 yachts equipped with 3208 engines and those were both repowered with marinized 6.6L duramax v8 engines and when replacing a pair of 3208's with marine duramax engines we save close to a ton of weight and the boats have massive performance gains especially the reduced fuel consumption.
@mikeshultz10072 жыл бұрын
@@mikeshultz1007 , back in the early 80's I hauled coal in 68 Ford tandem , had 3208 with a 5&4 trans. , it had exactly as much power as a 6v53 Detroit , a total nightmare .
@terrydavis61322 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of those Delco starters in my Chevrolets when I owned them!
@n2uid012 жыл бұрын
Drive gear gets hung up on the ring gear and the starter won’t spin that’s why when you bar it over slightly it will start the Bendix retracts pretty common
@chebyshortbox652 жыл бұрын
That 3208 is perfect for marine applications. As a anchor.
@craigroberson87572 жыл бұрын
Ouch!
@gumbootcloggers83302 жыл бұрын
True, gutless wonders and fuel wise they were horable, just sucked fuel.,,. 5.9 or dt466 much better and more reliable at the same HP..
@rayjon2372 жыл бұрын
3208 actually proved to be an excellent motor for marine applications and proved to last many more hours than most other engines found in same type boats.
@lyleclark91902 жыл бұрын
I prefer EMD diesel power. Everything else is just a toy.
@Bill-sp8kb10 ай бұрын
@@lyleclark9190 correct I have twins 435hp 3208 but I've the same click problem.. :((
@mehmetbuyukcelen70159 күн бұрын
When you press starter button if two teeth contact stopping the starter from engaging, it's supposed to jog itself through the solenoid circuit.
@simonaldridge822 жыл бұрын
With bad teeth on the flywheel wouldn't the starter grind against the flywheel like the GM automotive issue?
@alanmorrison35982 жыл бұрын
Time for a lathe to let you do things like reducing that pulley's rim diameter?
@Digital-Dan2 жыл бұрын
My old Thomas body bus ( Safety T Liner ) had a similar issue, there was a switch that activated when opening the back hatch /any emergency exits ECT..that would not allow it to start on either switch..needs to check to see if any of those have a jumper wire on them. When I bought it one of my doors they tried to bypass the switch with a jumper wire and it created all sorts of little weird issues. So whenever I had the back opened up I had to leave the ignition on hit the button above me which was I guess an interlock to let the system think that the engine door was closed then hit the starter button on the box Also the back box in the engine compartment when I opened it up I found wasn't very well serviced lots of corrosion on everything once I started cleaning up the connectors I stopped having any type of issue
@bobbypva2 жыл бұрын
Make shure there is no restriction in the return line ,them engines usually have a small return line
@garyharrington53002 жыл бұрын
With the power problems you are having is the fuel solenoid opening? 3208's have all filters on the suction side of transfer pump, any issue and the suck in air. No go until system and injectors bled.
@dcrate35252 жыл бұрын
another good video, keep them coming
@lloydrobinson70812 жыл бұрын
My dad once owned a semi truck. The batteries (4) were wired what was described as 12/24/ parallel/series. The starter used 24v but the rest of the truck Was 12v.
@davidhtims Жыл бұрын
I think the Screaming Jimmy ghosts have come out to play with this one!
@DrewFixIt2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if the starters have two windings internally. Wire in series for 24 v and in parallel for 12 v. That’s how the typical induction motor is built.
@sholinwright66212 жыл бұрын
That 24v starter on a 12v bus is a real "donggggggggg" action on behalf of the place that installed it :-( The engine is certainly turning over quite slow to my ear, but then I'm thousands of miles away.
@18robsmith2 жыл бұрын
I haven't seen this much trouble starting a bus since you were at Bus Boys with Phil!
@alanminer88412 жыл бұрын
Phil would have just grabbed 5 gal of starting fluid and a can of diesel ;)
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey You Betcha. Start the damn things or drown 'em.
@busoldmanphil72932 жыл бұрын
Instead of replacing the starter with a 12 volt starter you could use a starter solenoid similar to the ones used on kenworth trucks. Some of the old kenworth trucks had 12 volt electrical systems with 24v starters and they used a solenoid to switch the batteries from parallel to series to produce the 24 volts needed.
@mikeshultz10072 жыл бұрын
So instead of replacing the incorrect starter with the proper component that should be on the bus. They should rewire an entire portion of the bus instead? That has to be one of the dumbest things i have ever heard in my life
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
@@fucksusanwojcicki Why waste more money purchasing another starter when there is a simple solution to rectify the problem and besides that a 24 volt starter is more efficient. As voltage is increased amp draw is decreased so there would be less load on the power cable feeding the starter. Evidently you lack mechanical aptitude since it does not require any major reworking of the electrical system and would only require the addition of a series parallel relay and a few short battery cables which would have a total cost of around $100.
@mikeshultz10072 жыл бұрын
Cool bus I want one now
@vwbusguy10202 жыл бұрын
I’m at 17:54 at the moment and I have had the same thing go wrong on a 3126 car years ago (starter). It took a while but it ended up being a bad ground to the starter from the engine ground. The reason it might start when turning the engine over a bit could be turning the flywheel to create a decent ground. Maybe?
@markme22612 жыл бұрын
Answer coming soon
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same. Could also be on the power side where the battery cable to the starter has a washer installed first. Should be cable, washer, nut for lowest voltage drop.
@nathanvignola75042 жыл бұрын
3206 were notortious with Greyhound for loosing prime and they were used all the time. You had to hit the manual prime pump like crazy to get it to start from time to time. Never had that issue with the detroits of any series…the Cats are a strong engine, though not quite as refined as the series 60s
@threeparots12 жыл бұрын
Explain what bus Greyhound had, that had any Cat engine of this vintage? This is a light duty engine, and I I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken.
@user-ln7of9gs4s2 жыл бұрын
@@user-ln7of9gs4s you are correct. I had to swim through my files and found most of the conversions or factory installed were 3176 Cat. There were some that had C10 Cats. These still had the occasional annoying Loss of prime issue however. Manual priming pump was handy for this.. greyhound Canada bus 917-946, 947-956 had 3176 and 7 speed. 957-977, 996-1009 had C-10 With the lovely 7 speed manual as well. Most everything newer at that point were series 60 with the .automatic with the Allison World auto tran. I was still kinda partial to the 6v92 and the very rare 8v92 (fastest bus in the west L800). I loved the sound of the 8v71 in the two MC9 we still had by then. My favourite combo was the MC-12. Best of the old and relatively new. Small and somewhat sporty. 7 speed was the icing on the cake.
@threeparots12 жыл бұрын
Remove and clean bendix and rotor shaft on starter, also check solenoid disk and contacts. Clean if needed and maybe flip contact disk if burnt.
@michaelecullimore96772 жыл бұрын
Amazing how many hack shops are out there. 24V aah put it on there anyway. We don’t want a wait for another starter it should work. Good guess I’m with ya. Can’t wait to see. A friend called me last week a shop wanted to replace her motor cause he suspected one of the cats were clogged.
@mojo68mitch2 жыл бұрын
Is there a flywheel sensor on that? Seems to be a machine designed to flatten batteries!
@gavinosullivan79042 жыл бұрын
Even if the flywheel was bad in spots you would think you would hear the starter trying to engage
@robertneumann77822 жыл бұрын
Put a 12V solenoid on it....then the Bendix will engage. Cheaper than replacing the whole starter. The starter motor spins fast enough on 12V to start the engine.
@ajwilson6052 жыл бұрын
That might work for a while, but with the 24 volt motor windings it will draw twice the rated current on 12 volts and burn out prematurely. Best to put in the right starter.
@billmoran38122 жыл бұрын
@@billmoran3812 Not quite. Half the voltage and the same resistance will draw half the current. And deliver 1/4 of the rated power. It still might be possible to smoke it from requiring extended crank times, but that is a slightly different issue.
@lwilton2 жыл бұрын
@@lwilton no, that would be true of a resistor, but not a motor. It’s resistance varies depending on the torque. This is why motors that are overloaded burn out. A motor that is operated at less than it’s rated voltage will draw excess current.
@billmoran38122 жыл бұрын
Scott I had this trouble many times I had found the fly well starter motor Ring thought the years the stater Motor keep pounding at few teeth and creating e flat pot at the beginning where the starter motorBendix it engage
@maximolopezsr93992 жыл бұрын
That's typically a weak solenoid caused by either a bad solenoid or low voltage to it. In other words, the solenoid doesn't fully engage for the contacts to make. Rotating the flywheel enables the starter gear to find a point where it does fully engage thus enabling the starter motor.
@robertlevers89932 жыл бұрын
We put afaa meter on it it’s getting 13+ volts
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey Is that when the solenoid is engaged? Must be checked when it's under load.
@robertlevers89932 жыл бұрын
27:40
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Needs some huff and puff spray...
@davebetker87882 жыл бұрын
@@robertlevers8993 lmfao you should actually watch the video if you're going to give troubleshooting advice
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
That's a terrible repair job when the shop takes out a 12 volt starter and installs a 24 volt starter in it's place that is totally uncalled for who ever worked on it was not even start enough with basic math 3 12 volt batteries can not produce 24 volts in a normal fashion. The worse part is that kind of poor quality work happened in most expensive dealer and fancy truck shops. It's good to see that you are able to figure out what the issues are
@clydeschwartz21672 жыл бұрын
What's the history on this bus? We had a transit agency here that ran a few of them, but they weren't too common.
@awstott2 жыл бұрын
Do they still sell matched sets of V belts?
@brownwrench2 жыл бұрын
If you listen you can hear something is rubbing against a metal plate, specially when the engine is shutoff the noise is heard very clear in the video. Scott you should investigate what it is all about.
@SuperMAZ0072 жыл бұрын
Just curios, but i dont understand putting those drums back on. I would want them replaced. Budget?
@jeffjackson18972 жыл бұрын
There's probably a secondary relay that is actuated by the start buttons that sends power to the starter solenoid that isn't working. you'll need to track that down. I also think that the starter solenoid contacts have issues too. The whole problem has nothing to do with where the engine stops....and then there is the fuel problem to solve too.
@noshsreqd2 жыл бұрын
You must not have watched the whole video, they realized the starter is 24v and the bus is 12v. The starter is failing to actuate because the voltage is too low
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
I watched the whole video
@noshsreqd2 жыл бұрын
WTH? A shop put a 24V starter into a 12V application? Seriously? And for only $900? Good grief.
@MegaBakerdude2 жыл бұрын
It was $1400 the part was $900
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Omg,.
@rayjon2372 жыл бұрын
I installed a Racor fuel filter on my 85 GMC diesel. I put a priming bulb on the supply line between the fuel pump and the Racor housing on the pressure line, so when I changed the element I could just give the bulb a few squeezes and fill the fuel back to the top of the housing, before I put the lid on. The check valve somehow got stuck in the closed position and stopped allowing fuel to flow. This caused my injector pump to actually pull all the fuel from the Racor housing and collapsed the priming bulb, and killed my engine just as good as the fuel shutoff solenoid. I replaced the priming bulb and everything worked fine. So either your fuel shutoff solenoid is weak or failed, or something else is blocking the fuel from being pumped into the fuel filter, or your primary fuel pump is failing or is intermittently failing.
@skyhawksailor87362 жыл бұрын
On the plus side of the no start issue he has great batteries.
@neilfairless45892 жыл бұрын
That thing is going to crank over faster too once it has the right starter.
@abpsd732 жыл бұрын
Our bus had the same starter issue, turned out to be the starter itself. Phil and I took it apart twice, even replaced the solenoid.
@BusWithUs.2 жыл бұрын
Hey Jason when well we be seeing some more Bus with us!! Noticed even Sage stopped his KZhead video's
@dennissmith14692 жыл бұрын
@@dennissmith1469 We had some big setbacks this year with the project. Hoping to restart it soon! Sage has been busy with life too.
@BusWithUs.2 жыл бұрын
@@BusWithUs. just glad your all doing ok. Be looking out for the next video's
@dennissmith14692 жыл бұрын
First things first. 1. Clean battery terminals @ battery/s 2. Clean ground wire base @ frame. 3. Clean grounding cable from frame to engine/transmission assembly. 4. Get out your digital Volt/Ohm meter and get Going! Min. 12.6V @ battery
@edwinhsingmaster9135 Жыл бұрын
Shouldn't belts be matching? Belts of dissimilar wear and/or age will wear each other out as they must slip to stop windup?
@bruceknowling8633 Жыл бұрын
A 24v starter motor can NEVER work in a 12v electric system. The solenoid feed at 12v only doesn't have enough power to throw out the drive pinion and engage the ring gear, and also the motor itself after to turn the diesel engine. He should complain to the previous shop that installed it and screwed, and make it replaced by the correct 12v one. Also when installing the starter motor to the engine, very important to check the face clearance from the ring gear to the drive pinion, it should be around 1/8" in the released position, this will ensure a correct engagement of the tooth and not to damage the ring gear. The CAT starter motors use a mounting gasket to the flywheel housing, and it can be used to increase or reduce this clearance as necessary.
@rpujol2 жыл бұрын
I have seen a 24 volt starter engage on 12. But it turned over real slow. Had to exchange it at the rebuilder for correct one.
@DEW4092 жыл бұрын
Super weird that you would say the 12v system doesn't have enough power to drive the starter pinion. Because here you are, watching plain and clear video of a 12v system, and it's driving the starter pinion.
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
@@fucksusanwojcicki Yes, I can see perfectly that the engine starts every time he tries it.....my god, how much ignorance are in this world...better keep shut up man.
@rpujol2 жыл бұрын
@@rpujol Can you? You are obviously wrong when you said it "A 24v starter motor can NEVER work in a 12v electric system". It clearly CAN work, just not as it should. That's what @Austin was saying. Maybe YOU should 'shut up man' lol.
@bookooc56052 жыл бұрын
Back in the way back when I thought I wanted to be an aviation mech. we would cold start a Bell 47 with a Franklin using a 24 volt jump cart. It would spin that baby over like a top. Never took more than 2 turns to start so we wouldn't overheat it.
@kenore40032 жыл бұрын
Oh man, my bucket of curses would be overflowing
@hudsonvalleyrailandriverandair Жыл бұрын
Clean the ground from the starter to the frame, when replacing to a 12V starter! Replace the fuel filter, bad seal!
@stanleyflory67022 жыл бұрын
Replace with 12vdc starter. Maybe add a fuel booster pump. Vacuum leaks at the fuel injection pump / transfer pump. Notorious 3208 fuel system.
@michaelecullimore96772 жыл бұрын
24:11 Brutal... Correlation does not equal causation. I doubt that barring that engine over made any difference to the intermittent starter. I had an old German tractor that often took 6-10 attempts to get the starter to do more than clunk... I imagine I would have paid the $500 for a new starter if I had decided I needed to rotate the engine between each attempt. ...instead I pressed the button many times in quick succession and the thing always started.
@privateparty49002 жыл бұрын
Surprised it made to your shop. That stuttering just before start is strange.
@JD-zm4eh2 жыл бұрын
Maybe the problem is that the starter do no go in far enough to make contact on the solenoid washers and contacts try installing a temporary shim between the starter and engine. I had a similar problem years ago
@luiscruz-no3ib2 жыл бұрын
Bar it over fast enough, and it will start.🤣 What is the air leak from when you turn the power on, before pushing the start button? Cat engines have a fuel prime pump, to prime the fuel system/get the air out, when the filter is replaced. It takes a lot of pumping, but it saves the starter.
@timgreen41372 жыл бұрын
Buzzer up front
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
I had a pump on my Cat. Must not be one on this one.
@hollandbuzzard10392 жыл бұрын
Replace all the fuel lines from the tank to the engine. It's shocking sir some where. Maybe also install a small electric lift pump at the tank. Three batteries? Is it missing one and maybe supposed to be 12 & 24 volt systems? Buses I work on have four group 31 batteries. Years ago, they had those 100+ pound two battery set ups. Glad they got away from those.
@joseantoniocastrellonjr25682 жыл бұрын
LMFAO scott is just a little bit more skilled than just shotgunning parts at a bus to guess at a problem. It's called "troubleshooting"
@fucksusanwojcicki2 жыл бұрын
That bus had great batteries.
@RODALCO20072 жыл бұрын
New subscriber here... anyone ever said how much you sound like Wes?...
@nikroche26212 жыл бұрын
He won't have to worry about somebody stealing it
@gremlin13962 жыл бұрын
Unless they watch this video and have about an hour to spare
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey 🤣💯
@joseantoniocastrellonjr25682 жыл бұрын
I'll tell you what, I would not want to arm wrestle this guy.
@jorgefernandez-mv8hu2 жыл бұрын
Scott is right, he has several problems that together add up to that click, click no go.
@jorgefernandez-mv8hu2 жыл бұрын
Possible a pad on the starters commutated is open
@deltasonics19972 жыл бұрын
The "radomness" of the crank position leads me to believe there is low voltage/ bad ground to the starter and it can't pull the engine over the top when a cylinder comes up on compression. Maybe moving that cylinder past TDC eases the load and let's the starter motor get a run at the next cylinder trying to fire. I realize it's a 24V starter running on 12, but it seems to have plenty of rpm once it moves
@raykaufman71562 жыл бұрын
Step up voltage converter for solenoid would be much cheaper than new starter.
@JuhaLehtinen2 жыл бұрын
I see you folks bought the Lone Wolf 3000 from Vice Grip Garage.
@mikemullay56222 жыл бұрын
sorry, witch is the right idle rpm for 3208? Many thanks in advance
@mircogiomi5981 Жыл бұрын
i had a bad spot on my fly wheel so the starter wouldn't connect, put a new fly wheel in and no more problems. It wasn't a bus but a ford v-8
@jacktritten6082 жыл бұрын
put new 0 rings// and test it// keep in stock as rebuilt on the ready //
@christophercudia83542 жыл бұрын
I am having starting issues on my 1990 Beaver Motorhome wish I could bring it to you but I'm in Florida
@supremeautomotive67492 жыл бұрын
Fuel problem possibly solenoid on injection pump
@stanjacklin59682 жыл бұрын
New starter should do it but loosing prime need to troubleshoot that one next
@TimsWorkshopTJY2 жыл бұрын
There is a bad relay, caused by the wrong starter? Or just the wrong starter... Thats my guess...
@ohcrapwhatsnext2 жыл бұрын
The loss of prime has been my issue since i had my fuel lines replaced and now no one can find the issue.. I dont know what to do except to hook up a priming pump till I can find a mechanic that knows how to fix my issue
@ToConnect2000s2 жыл бұрын
Check injection pump rotary shafts for vacuum leaks, causing loss òf prime at rest. Check fuel supply Check between tank and engine.
@michaelecullimore96772 жыл бұрын
Aaaaaaa that sounds like a power or ground issue!
@allenkuester7812 жыл бұрын
You will love the answer when you get to it
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Bus for very patient people.
@geertvandermeer49382 жыл бұрын
I would check the grounds If you have a jumper cables Just use one set of terminals connect 1 to the engine block and 1 to the frame before you do anything
@dirt99252 жыл бұрын
Also I would look at lift pump check valves This is a pretty common issue with Caterpillar engines
@dirt99252 жыл бұрын
Honey let's go on a trip.. Ok give me an hour to get her going
@golfy8082 жыл бұрын
at the 5 minute mark i was like "put a volt meter on the starter solenoid!!"
@davidd.332 жыл бұрын
Greasemonkey you have patience of steel
@johnmartin20792 жыл бұрын
Give J&I starters and alts the got awesome deals on starters. There in Marshfield Missouri
@ruthlessronniethemechanic56392 жыл бұрын
Bendix not returning all the way, may be hitting if not right starter for application. Also your fuel air leak is killing your starter so fix it.
@kenbutera35302 жыл бұрын
3208’s with Allisons also have a neutral safety switch. That could be faulty, too.
@signalsparks2 жыл бұрын
But once we put the remote starter switch on that would be negated. But they may help diag the start button
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Right. I took my CDL test in a 1985 Blue Bird AARE with a 3208 and a 4-speed Allison. The org I drive for had two of them, a 1985 and a 1986 until CARB killed them. The day I drove the 1985 to be donated to Pacific Bus Museum, it still started from dead cold with less than 1 second on the starter.
@signalsparks2 жыл бұрын
How to abuse a starter using only two hands.
@hamdude21092 жыл бұрын
How to get a starter to work using electricity
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
Bad solinoid or bad starter or both
@willardway30372 жыл бұрын
I had an old Ford tandem tractor. I put 3 3208 cat engines in that stupid truck, 3208 was a throw away engine, could not be rebuilt.
@dbmurray09242 жыл бұрын
Starter bendix return spring
@richtfox2 жыл бұрын
Lol making the dude go below and catch the cylinder liners kinda of torture here . 1 you need a starter its toast. On the way in check you batts control circuit powers and grounds .
@michaelcoachtechvp28462 жыл бұрын
It’s a brand new starter
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey And I wonder if it was factory tested post manufacture? I bought a car here in the UK some years back. Week 2 car went back with over 100 faults, week 15 my lawyer got me a replacement!!
@trainmanbob2 жыл бұрын
Not starting immediately is a fuel prob.(maybe).Put an led on the injection input. $900 is stupid for a starter motor.
@marty0715yt2 жыл бұрын
And charging $500 more for labor to change it is stupid too
@BusGreaseMonkey2 жыл бұрын
@@BusGreaseMonkey Is that $100 a bolt. Lift is for free.
Click click click click… just wanted to add a few more clicks to this video ;)
Click... There ya go bud, there was one missing. Shocking that 24v starter turned over as well as it did on 12v, bet the windings were getting awful hot though (half the voltage = twice the current if it was turning as fast)
And another click for good measure
Que autobús es
20 plus years ago at the request of Cat Inc, Delco-Remy redesigned the contact disc inside the solenoid, so if that starter is that age or older may have old design disc. Cat was subject to lawsuit by a large yacht owner, who's boat, with twin Cat engines, burned to the water line. Thru joint failure analysis between Cat and Delco-Remy(as they where called then) a sticking contact disc in a starter caused that boat starter failure. I happened to be the Technician in the Alternator/Starter Lab that day
I love it. Oh the books that could be written on interesting stories from techs everywhere.
Just happened to me in my motor home with original starter good thing we caught it in time
Pull the shut down solenoid off the top of the injection pump and if it's wet in there it's the shut down shaft seal leaking, that's the loss of prime location. Worked at a cat dealer truck shop fixed dozens and dozens of those with loss of prime
After watching your channel (and others) for quite some time, I think I've come to the conclusion that if someone had something done at another shop even remotely related to a problem, the first thing to do is verify that was was done is indeed proper / valid / correct. Finding the root cause of problems is way better than throwing lots of expensive parts at something until the problem seems to have gone away (for now). Thanks for practicing and teaching the art of actual problem solving!!
It will almost always be cheaper to properly diagnose the problem and fix it than to blindly throw parts at it.
Load up the parts cannon and let it fly!
I'm pretty certain that's not the first time I've seen a bus turn up here with starting problems and it's been down to a 24v starter on a 12v bus.... You'd have thought checking that would be "Cat Engine Repairs 101"
Yeah the biggest weakness with the 3208 is all the belts. I had a motorhome and I very same engine in the first time it ever broke down on me the inside belt came off and caught all the other belts and threw them all off. So I recommend changing the belts on that thing every two years regardless. Also the 3208 doesn't have a lift pump that uses vacuum and they're notorious for losing Prime I ended up having to change all the vacuum fuel lines throughout the entire bus and it cured the problem. But those vacuum fuel hoses are hard to find . That is the low coolant light and buzzer in the dash the 3208 uses a manual fuel injector pump on the top of the engine is right behind that big huge plate that you guys are standing in front. The injectors are just pencil injectors. It has a vacuum leak somewhere in the fuel system and it's sucking in air. Add a small 7 PSI fuel pump from the tank to the fuel filter and that should help with the loss of prime. But definitely change the fuel lines
I seen another comment saying add a fuel pump from Oreillys but it's labeled for gas. He said he used it on his diesel for a couple years no problems. Does it matter?
This brings back memories. We had an old truck with a 4-53T that did this same thing. We did this same thing to get it to start. I never found out what the issue was. The starter was replaced during rebuild and the problem went away. I was 16, and used the fan to turn the engine (by hand) a bit. That truck was not for the weak, or for the faint of heart.
The transfer pump is a known issue on the 3208 also. the bushing in the front of the pump wears and leaks and allows it to lose prime.
I had a 3208 CAT in our 1991 Beaver coach and I had one instance where it lost prime while registering at a campground. I primed it with the manual pump and it started right up. Turned out to be the crimp on the fuel filter was sucking air. I put a new fuel filter on it, which I always carry a spare, and it never missed a beat again. Only time in the 7 years and 50k plus miles that we owned that coach that it ever lost prime. Just a thought on something to consider. That 24 volt starter actually cranking on 12 volts blows my mind. I've not seen that before.
would be super slow though
This is a good one, can't wait to see the conclusion to this bus!!
Scott, there seems to be a higher than average number of goofballs in commercial vehicle/ bus repair. Some of the piss-poor work I've seen you have to "re-repair" is just mind boggling.
This one was just stupid
I thought so too, but then, Scott sees the goof ups. The quality work doesn’t need his talent.
There are some sketchy truck repair shops out there, too. Not just bus owners are suffering.
I've never worked on commercial vehicles (and only on cars as a hobby) but I suspect there's a lot more variation in them (custom one-offs, very short production runs and modifications to them through their much longer lifespan) than you get with cars so it's much more important for a mechanic to really understand what he's looking at. With cars there's always going to be a first time you work on some specific make/model but chances are you're going to see the same thing in front of you more than once so it's easier to just work on autopilot and do what you always do.
I'd pull off one of the belts on the mismatched pulley drive. The belt on the larger pulley is doing all the work anyway and the smaller pulley is working against it. Looks like the larger pulley is maybe 1/4" larger diameter, that would be about 3/4" difference in belt travel for each turn of the pulley. Looking at it when running you can see that the belt on the smaller pulley is not doing any work and just wearing both belts faster.
When the teeth on the starter drive get rounded on the end, this can cause it to only engage when the gear alignment is perfect. There is a bevel ground in to them when they are new to ease the engagement.
That kinda doesn't make sense, if the teeth were rounded they would engage easier. And you must not have even watched the video, they found out that it is a 24v starter installed in a 12v bus. The starter solenoid isn't actuating because the voltage is too low
If it is a 24volt starter, the solenoid to drive in the bendix will be 24v also. Using 12 volts, the solenoid might not have enough oomph to drive the bendix home. When the bendix drives home it should push in a switch, which will give power to the starter motor. Put a meyer on that bendix switch, to see if the switch in adjusted correctly, or if the voltage is incorrect..
3208 is a sleeve less engine. make sure he is running. anti-cavitation additive or Cat ELC antifreeze. He is either losing prime or the shutdown solenoid is binding or going bad. Throttle shafts are bad to allow air in around them also.
Love the ‘lone wolf 6000’ starter trigger use.
heck yes.. sir thanks for sharing dam good stuff love it..
That 24 volt starter! LOL! Hey at least you didn't burn it up on 12 volts!
Have had several of these motors and one ran daily in my service truck and have had two with the same issue starter solenoid disk is trashed and will start sticking soon. One started cranking by itself almost 30 seconds after turning off key resulting in a starter fire I recommend changing the starter or solenoid, also check throttle shaft seal it goes bad and pump loses prime causing hard starts
Great work helping Gary Busey fix his bus.
So a couple things to think about on the 3208 for priming: there may or may not be a electric lift pump between the tank and the engine fuel pump, make sure it’s working, if it does not have one I would add one. The hand primer pumps often leak and allow air in the fuel system, I would replace it. The injection pump has a shut off solenoid on the top of it, they can stick or the injection pump shutdown rack can stick and allow it not to start. You can check by pulling off the shut off solenoid and push down on the shut down and make sure it springs back up easily. Hope these ideas help on the starting issue.
The hand primer leaks when pumping it
@@BusGreaseMonkey Aha! Great, that would normally be an easy fix.. but looks like access on that engine is not great.. based on the dangling feet I saw!
@@BusGreaseMonkey Then my guess is that is where it is sucking air. If it leaks when full, it would suck air when empty
I love the 3208TAs quite a few of my customers have them in their yachts.... Solid engines.....
In trucks they were called the 'throw away engine'.......they had a reputation much like the Cripple 555 cummins. Strangely in other applications like tractors they did really well.
The 3208 is probably the worst cat engine ever made and one of the worst diesel engines ever made. They are throw a way engines and for the owners of those engines the happiest day in their lives is the day they either re-power the vehicle or sell it. The 3208 has a displacement of 10.6L which is 636 cubic inches and it is a heavy pig at nearly 1900lbs for the ta version. My business specializes in repowering and I have re-powered 2 yachts equipped with 3208 engines and those were both repowered with marinized 6.6L duramax v8 engines and when replacing a pair of 3208's with marine duramax engines we save close to a ton of weight and the boats have massive performance gains especially the reduced fuel consumption.
@@mikeshultz1007 , back in the early 80's I hauled coal in 68 Ford tandem , had 3208 with a 5&4 trans. , it had exactly as much power as a 6v53 Detroit , a total nightmare .
Reminds me of those Delco starters in my Chevrolets when I owned them!
Drive gear gets hung up on the ring gear and the starter won’t spin that’s why when you bar it over slightly it will start the Bendix retracts pretty common
That 3208 is perfect for marine applications. As a anchor.
Ouch!
True, gutless wonders and fuel wise they were horable, just sucked fuel.,,. 5.9 or dt466 much better and more reliable at the same HP..
3208 actually proved to be an excellent motor for marine applications and proved to last many more hours than most other engines found in same type boats.
I prefer EMD diesel power. Everything else is just a toy.
@@lyleclark9190 correct I have twins 435hp 3208 but I've the same click problem.. :((
When you press starter button if two teeth contact stopping the starter from engaging, it's supposed to jog itself through the solenoid circuit.
With bad teeth on the flywheel wouldn't the starter grind against the flywheel like the GM automotive issue?
Time for a lathe to let you do things like reducing that pulley's rim diameter?
My old Thomas body bus ( Safety T Liner ) had a similar issue, there was a switch that activated when opening the back hatch /any emergency exits ECT..that would not allow it to start on either switch..needs to check to see if any of those have a jumper wire on them. When I bought it one of my doors they tried to bypass the switch with a jumper wire and it created all sorts of little weird issues. So whenever I had the back opened up I had to leave the ignition on hit the button above me which was I guess an interlock to let the system think that the engine door was closed then hit the starter button on the box Also the back box in the engine compartment when I opened it up I found wasn't very well serviced lots of corrosion on everything once I started cleaning up the connectors I stopped having any type of issue
Make shure there is no restriction in the return line ,them engines usually have a small return line
With the power problems you are having is the fuel solenoid opening? 3208's have all filters on the suction side of transfer pump, any issue and the suck in air. No go until system and injectors bled.
another good video, keep them coming
My dad once owned a semi truck. The batteries (4) were wired what was described as 12/24/ parallel/series. The starter used 24v but the rest of the truck Was 12v.
I think the Screaming Jimmy ghosts have come out to play with this one!
I wonder if the starters have two windings internally. Wire in series for 24 v and in parallel for 12 v. That’s how the typical induction motor is built.
That 24v starter on a 12v bus is a real "donggggggggg" action on behalf of the place that installed it :-( The engine is certainly turning over quite slow to my ear, but then I'm thousands of miles away.
I haven't seen this much trouble starting a bus since you were at Bus Boys with Phil!
Phil would have just grabbed 5 gal of starting fluid and a can of diesel ;)
@@BusGreaseMonkey You Betcha. Start the damn things or drown 'em.
Instead of replacing the starter with a 12 volt starter you could use a starter solenoid similar to the ones used on kenworth trucks. Some of the old kenworth trucks had 12 volt electrical systems with 24v starters and they used a solenoid to switch the batteries from parallel to series to produce the 24 volts needed.
So instead of replacing the incorrect starter with the proper component that should be on the bus. They should rewire an entire portion of the bus instead? That has to be one of the dumbest things i have ever heard in my life
@@fucksusanwojcicki Why waste more money purchasing another starter when there is a simple solution to rectify the problem and besides that a 24 volt starter is more efficient. As voltage is increased amp draw is decreased so there would be less load on the power cable feeding the starter. Evidently you lack mechanical aptitude since it does not require any major reworking of the electrical system and would only require the addition of a series parallel relay and a few short battery cables which would have a total cost of around $100.
Cool bus I want one now
I’m at 17:54 at the moment and I have had the same thing go wrong on a 3126 car years ago (starter). It took a while but it ended up being a bad ground to the starter from the engine ground. The reason it might start when turning the engine over a bit could be turning the flywheel to create a decent ground. Maybe?
Answer coming soon
I was thinking the same. Could also be on the power side where the battery cable to the starter has a washer installed first. Should be cable, washer, nut for lowest voltage drop.
3206 were notortious with Greyhound for loosing prime and they were used all the time. You had to hit the manual prime pump like crazy to get it to start from time to time. Never had that issue with the detroits of any series…the Cats are a strong engine, though not quite as refined as the series 60s
Explain what bus Greyhound had, that had any Cat engine of this vintage? This is a light duty engine, and I I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s you are correct. I had to swim through my files and found most of the conversions or factory installed were 3176 Cat. There were some that had C10 Cats. These still had the occasional annoying Loss of prime issue however. Manual priming pump was handy for this.. greyhound Canada bus 917-946, 947-956 had 3176 and 7 speed. 957-977, 996-1009 had C-10 With the lovely 7 speed manual as well. Most everything newer at that point were series 60 with the .automatic with the Allison World auto tran. I was still kinda partial to the 6v92 and the very rare 8v92 (fastest bus in the west L800). I loved the sound of the 8v71 in the two MC9 we still had by then. My favourite combo was the MC-12. Best of the old and relatively new. Small and somewhat sporty. 7 speed was the icing on the cake.
Remove and clean bendix and rotor shaft on starter, also check solenoid disk and contacts. Clean if needed and maybe flip contact disk if burnt.
Amazing how many hack shops are out there. 24V aah put it on there anyway. We don’t want a wait for another starter it should work. Good guess I’m with ya. Can’t wait to see. A friend called me last week a shop wanted to replace her motor cause he suspected one of the cats were clogged.
Is there a flywheel sensor on that? Seems to be a machine designed to flatten batteries!
Even if the flywheel was bad in spots you would think you would hear the starter trying to engage
Put a 12V solenoid on it....then the Bendix will engage. Cheaper than replacing the whole starter. The starter motor spins fast enough on 12V to start the engine.
That might work for a while, but with the 24 volt motor windings it will draw twice the rated current on 12 volts and burn out prematurely. Best to put in the right starter.
@@billmoran3812 Not quite. Half the voltage and the same resistance will draw half the current. And deliver 1/4 of the rated power. It still might be possible to smoke it from requiring extended crank times, but that is a slightly different issue.
@@lwilton no, that would be true of a resistor, but not a motor. It’s resistance varies depending on the torque. This is why motors that are overloaded burn out. A motor that is operated at less than it’s rated voltage will draw excess current.
Scott I had this trouble many times I had found the fly well starter motor Ring thought the years the stater Motor keep pounding at few teeth and creating e flat pot at the beginning where the starter motorBendix it engage
That's typically a weak solenoid caused by either a bad solenoid or low voltage to it. In other words, the solenoid doesn't fully engage for the contacts to make. Rotating the flywheel enables the starter gear to find a point where it does fully engage thus enabling the starter motor.
We put afaa meter on it it’s getting 13+ volts
@@BusGreaseMonkey Is that when the solenoid is engaged? Must be checked when it's under load.
27:40
Needs some huff and puff spray...
@@robertlevers8993 lmfao you should actually watch the video if you're going to give troubleshooting advice
That's a terrible repair job when the shop takes out a 12 volt starter and installs a 24 volt starter in it's place that is totally uncalled for who ever worked on it was not even start enough with basic math 3 12 volt batteries can not produce 24 volts in a normal fashion. The worse part is that kind of poor quality work happened in most expensive dealer and fancy truck shops. It's good to see that you are able to figure out what the issues are
What's the history on this bus? We had a transit agency here that ran a few of them, but they weren't too common.
Do they still sell matched sets of V belts?
If you listen you can hear something is rubbing against a metal plate, specially when the engine is shutoff the noise is heard very clear in the video. Scott you should investigate what it is all about.
Just curios, but i dont understand putting those drums back on. I would want them replaced. Budget?
There's probably a secondary relay that is actuated by the start buttons that sends power to the starter solenoid that isn't working. you'll need to track that down. I also think that the starter solenoid contacts have issues too. The whole problem has nothing to do with where the engine stops....and then there is the fuel problem to solve too.
You must not have watched the whole video, they realized the starter is 24v and the bus is 12v. The starter is failing to actuate because the voltage is too low
I watched the whole video
WTH? A shop put a 24V starter into a 12V application? Seriously? And for only $900? Good grief.
It was $1400 the part was $900
Omg,.
I installed a Racor fuel filter on my 85 GMC diesel. I put a priming bulb on the supply line between the fuel pump and the Racor housing on the pressure line, so when I changed the element I could just give the bulb a few squeezes and fill the fuel back to the top of the housing, before I put the lid on. The check valve somehow got stuck in the closed position and stopped allowing fuel to flow. This caused my injector pump to actually pull all the fuel from the Racor housing and collapsed the priming bulb, and killed my engine just as good as the fuel shutoff solenoid. I replaced the priming bulb and everything worked fine. So either your fuel shutoff solenoid is weak or failed, or something else is blocking the fuel from being pumped into the fuel filter, or your primary fuel pump is failing or is intermittently failing.
On the plus side of the no start issue he has great batteries.
That thing is going to crank over faster too once it has the right starter.
Our bus had the same starter issue, turned out to be the starter itself. Phil and I took it apart twice, even replaced the solenoid.
Hey Jason when well we be seeing some more Bus with us!! Noticed even Sage stopped his KZhead video's
@@dennissmith1469 We had some big setbacks this year with the project. Hoping to restart it soon! Sage has been busy with life too.
@@BusWithUs. just glad your all doing ok. Be looking out for the next video's
First things first. 1. Clean battery terminals @ battery/s 2. Clean ground wire base @ frame. 3. Clean grounding cable from frame to engine/transmission assembly. 4. Get out your digital Volt/Ohm meter and get Going! Min. 12.6V @ battery
Shouldn't belts be matching? Belts of dissimilar wear and/or age will wear each other out as they must slip to stop windup?
A 24v starter motor can NEVER work in a 12v electric system. The solenoid feed at 12v only doesn't have enough power to throw out the drive pinion and engage the ring gear, and also the motor itself after to turn the diesel engine. He should complain to the previous shop that installed it and screwed, and make it replaced by the correct 12v one. Also when installing the starter motor to the engine, very important to check the face clearance from the ring gear to the drive pinion, it should be around 1/8" in the released position, this will ensure a correct engagement of the tooth and not to damage the ring gear. The CAT starter motors use a mounting gasket to the flywheel housing, and it can be used to increase or reduce this clearance as necessary.
I have seen a 24 volt starter engage on 12. But it turned over real slow. Had to exchange it at the rebuilder for correct one.
Super weird that you would say the 12v system doesn't have enough power to drive the starter pinion. Because here you are, watching plain and clear video of a 12v system, and it's driving the starter pinion.
@@fucksusanwojcicki Yes, I can see perfectly that the engine starts every time he tries it.....my god, how much ignorance are in this world...better keep shut up man.
@@rpujol Can you? You are obviously wrong when you said it "A 24v starter motor can NEVER work in a 12v electric system". It clearly CAN work, just not as it should. That's what @Austin was saying. Maybe YOU should 'shut up man' lol.
Back in the way back when I thought I wanted to be an aviation mech. we would cold start a Bell 47 with a Franklin using a 24 volt jump cart. It would spin that baby over like a top. Never took more than 2 turns to start so we wouldn't overheat it.
Oh man, my bucket of curses would be overflowing
Clean the ground from the starter to the frame, when replacing to a 12V starter! Replace the fuel filter, bad seal!
Replace with 12vdc starter. Maybe add a fuel booster pump. Vacuum leaks at the fuel injection pump / transfer pump. Notorious 3208 fuel system.
24:11 Brutal... Correlation does not equal causation. I doubt that barring that engine over made any difference to the intermittent starter. I had an old German tractor that often took 6-10 attempts to get the starter to do more than clunk... I imagine I would have paid the $500 for a new starter if I had decided I needed to rotate the engine between each attempt. ...instead I pressed the button many times in quick succession and the thing always started.
Surprised it made to your shop. That stuttering just before start is strange.
Maybe the problem is that the starter do no go in far enough to make contact on the solenoid washers and contacts try installing a temporary shim between the starter and engine. I had a similar problem years ago
Bar it over fast enough, and it will start.🤣 What is the air leak from when you turn the power on, before pushing the start button? Cat engines have a fuel prime pump, to prime the fuel system/get the air out, when the filter is replaced. It takes a lot of pumping, but it saves the starter.
Buzzer up front
I had a pump on my Cat. Must not be one on this one.
Replace all the fuel lines from the tank to the engine. It's shocking sir some where. Maybe also install a small electric lift pump at the tank. Three batteries? Is it missing one and maybe supposed to be 12 & 24 volt systems? Buses I work on have four group 31 batteries. Years ago, they had those 100+ pound two battery set ups. Glad they got away from those.
LMFAO scott is just a little bit more skilled than just shotgunning parts at a bus to guess at a problem. It's called "troubleshooting"
That bus had great batteries.
New subscriber here... anyone ever said how much you sound like Wes?...
He won't have to worry about somebody stealing it
Unless they watch this video and have about an hour to spare
@@BusGreaseMonkey 🤣💯
I'll tell you what, I would not want to arm wrestle this guy.
Scott is right, he has several problems that together add up to that click, click no go.
Possible a pad on the starters commutated is open
The "radomness" of the crank position leads me to believe there is low voltage/ bad ground to the starter and it can't pull the engine over the top when a cylinder comes up on compression. Maybe moving that cylinder past TDC eases the load and let's the starter motor get a run at the next cylinder trying to fire. I realize it's a 24V starter running on 12, but it seems to have plenty of rpm once it moves
Step up voltage converter for solenoid would be much cheaper than new starter.
I see you folks bought the Lone Wolf 3000 from Vice Grip Garage.
sorry, witch is the right idle rpm for 3208? Many thanks in advance
i had a bad spot on my fly wheel so the starter wouldn't connect, put a new fly wheel in and no more problems. It wasn't a bus but a ford v-8
put new 0 rings// and test it// keep in stock as rebuilt on the ready //
I am having starting issues on my 1990 Beaver Motorhome wish I could bring it to you but I'm in Florida
Fuel problem possibly solenoid on injection pump
New starter should do it but loosing prime need to troubleshoot that one next
There is a bad relay, caused by the wrong starter? Or just the wrong starter... Thats my guess...
The loss of prime has been my issue since i had my fuel lines replaced and now no one can find the issue.. I dont know what to do except to hook up a priming pump till I can find a mechanic that knows how to fix my issue
Check injection pump rotary shafts for vacuum leaks, causing loss òf prime at rest. Check fuel supply Check between tank and engine.
Aaaaaaa that sounds like a power or ground issue!
You will love the answer when you get to it
Bus for very patient people.
I would check the grounds If you have a jumper cables Just use one set of terminals connect 1 to the engine block and 1 to the frame before you do anything
Also I would look at lift pump check valves This is a pretty common issue with Caterpillar engines
Honey let's go on a trip.. Ok give me an hour to get her going
at the 5 minute mark i was like "put a volt meter on the starter solenoid!!"
Greasemonkey you have patience of steel
Give J&I starters and alts the got awesome deals on starters. There in Marshfield Missouri
Bendix not returning all the way, may be hitting if not right starter for application. Also your fuel air leak is killing your starter so fix it.
3208’s with Allisons also have a neutral safety switch. That could be faulty, too.
But once we put the remote starter switch on that would be negated. But they may help diag the start button
Right. I took my CDL test in a 1985 Blue Bird AARE with a 3208 and a 4-speed Allison. The org I drive for had two of them, a 1985 and a 1986 until CARB killed them. The day I drove the 1985 to be donated to Pacific Bus Museum, it still started from dead cold with less than 1 second on the starter.
How to abuse a starter using only two hands.
How to get a starter to work using electricity
Bad solinoid or bad starter or both
I had an old Ford tandem tractor. I put 3 3208 cat engines in that stupid truck, 3208 was a throw away engine, could not be rebuilt.
Starter bendix return spring
Lol making the dude go below and catch the cylinder liners kinda of torture here . 1 you need a starter its toast. On the way in check you batts control circuit powers and grounds .
It’s a brand new starter
@@BusGreaseMonkey And I wonder if it was factory tested post manufacture? I bought a car here in the UK some years back. Week 2 car went back with over 100 faults, week 15 my lawyer got me a replacement!!
Not starting immediately is a fuel prob.(maybe).Put an led on the injection input. $900 is stupid for a starter motor.
And charging $500 more for labor to change it is stupid too
@@BusGreaseMonkey Is that $100 a bolt. Lift is for free.