AMD vs Intel Strategies, GPU Power/Pricing Problems, Q&A | The Full Nerd ep. 235
Join The Full Nerd gang as they talk about the latest PC hardware topics. In this episode the gang is joined by Maximum PC alum Will Smith to chat about AMD's CPU approach vs Intel's, GPU power, pricing and performance trends, and of course we answer your questions live!
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Did AM4 Bite AMD In The Butt?: • AM4 Isn't A Good Thing...
End Of The Line For LGA 1700?: • 14th-Gen "Meteor Lake"...
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#amd #intel #nvidia
00:00 - Pre-show
12:45 - Intro
24:39 - AMD vs Intel
1:29:58 - GPU Problems
2:14:58 - Q&A
Gordon.. All about that tough love!!
👍 Gordon was bare backing that Outrage Pony today! 👍
Gordon is hilarious. Best PC podcast!
Maximum PC was never the same when he left.
Gordon is an industry shill who excuses unprecedented bad value and short sighted designs.
@@JasonRasmussen He left before the magazine folded? I didn't know that. I miss Gordon's Rant of the Week.
This is one of the best episodes. You can feel the chemistry between Gordon and Will like Pat and Madden. Love it!
wow. Desert Combat dev here, so nice and unexpected to hear a shoutout for that. =)
We played Desert Combat every day after work for years at Maximum PC. Mad respect for what you all built :)
@@notthatwillsmith thank you man that means a lot. Fun fact, I’m at nvidia these days. ;)
I miss the SCUD!
Rejected prison system food 🤣 Sea World: He knows too much!
My main reason for not purchasing the AMD 7000 series is due to the chipset released at the same time. I've been though 3 AMD chipset releases and each one has been through at least 15 bios updates before they became stable. Usually 5 or 6 in the first 6 weeks. Now I'm giving them 4 - 6 months, then I'll purchase.
I didn't learn sh1t about PCs from this video, but I feel pretty ready for the trash panda apocalypse. Bonus, the collective consciousness of all the people Gordon angered caused a mid stream earthquake. This was a quality show...Please never change! Love you guys, thanks much!
This was a fantastic episode. I loved the discussion about $18 theme park diet Cokes and Gordon's thoughts on the racoons had me laughing so hard I nearly had to pull over. It may have been off the rails but it certainly made my day better!
Oh shoot, I think I may be the staff member at the Central Computer store that talked about our Intel 13th gen and AMD 7000 series sales. Ah, I should've recognized! Though I've only just started watching PC World.
Loved the rant of the week. I have every recorded episodes. Gordon was awesome as always.
Big support for the channel and keep on making awesome content and guides and giveaways in the future as well. Worked for me
Love Will Smith compliments Gordon's energy quite well, just missing Brad and this would be a perfect podcast
As a hardware designer. I see it very tempting to tune my PC up and down with a flick of a software switch. Like you can do with AMD Ryzen master. If you are doing light work like posting Emails writing documentation, web browsing. You tune the system down to 65 watt and the computer fans will hardly spin. And your PC do not double as a space heater. But at other occasions I need the full power. I can flip the switch over to super charged mode. Just perfect! For me a Ryzen 9 would be perfect. A Threadripper would be totally overkill
Best episode ever reminds me of gordons rants of the week on maximum pc
Every episode I've seen is solid. Plus, Asian host. #Diversity
Roll Rock music intro. Also, I have been trying to get all of the old podcast and a lot of them are hard to find.
You guys are the best had so much fun thnx!
Epic Full Nerd. Was laughing out loud over my headphones non stop. Thanks to Will for helping bring out Peak Gordon. Chefs kiss
My favorite GPU was the ATI All-In-Wonder Pro. I loved that card.
Its very good! Working! Thanks.
I think that platform cost is the bigger factor along with economic issues than AM4 is in AMD's current situation. They built AM5 for customers that no longer exist, much like NVIDIA has with the 4090.
I agree with you except for the 4090 customers. Ultra high end customers will always exist. Those 4080's though? No one wants far from top tier performance for almost top tier price.
@@shepergames3734 You're right, the less price sensitive people that will buy the best... diminishing returns be damned, will buy it regardless. However, you have to ask yourself how many of those people can actually afford to buy that top tier card? If they have to buy it with a credit card, they couldn't really afford it. And if that's the case, the current economic situation probably has more and more of those people questioning spending that money they don't have. And the proof is there, even though the 4090 was a hella jump in perf, sales weren't even close to as good as the 3090 was. That's even accounting for scalpers. The 4090 isn't hard to get despite production for 4090 being lower than the 3090 since NVIDIA is trying to move the 30 series out. They went all out, and created a product for a market that was already niche to begin with, but is even smaller now because of the uncertain political climate and the impending recession. And who knows how bad this is going to be. So, yes... NVIDIA has made a misstep. All of these products were being developed at a time when people thought the market would endlessly climb, but that's not possible... and now that it's come to a head, the buyers of those products largely don't exist anymore. It's only going to get worse, and I think it will def hit the 3080 harder when it comes out. In six months time, I think things are going to be really bad for a lot of people. So I stand by what I said. They've created a product for a market that doesn't really exist anymore and their sales are already suffering for it.
@@TheGameBench one thing is for sure. If amd brings the value, this market is going to give them more opportunity than ever before and Nvidia may have to take a serious look at their product stack. 30 series overstock be damned.
Really Beautiful! Thanks for sharing Intel Strategies with us!
I am the proud new owner of a $300 X670E MB (so PCIe 5.0 x16 slot) and a 7700X. I fully intend to use that CPU until the end of life for the AM5 socket and upgrade to get the most out of my MB. It was a little pricey up front, but I feel like it will be worth it in the long run for me. I considered waiting for 3D-Vcache chips, but decided to just go ahead and go for it since obviously supply is fine right now, and also partially out of my own impatience. I think the 8 core will do me very well for the next few years, If it starts to feel like a limiting factor in a few years, then its gonna be approaching EOL for AM5 soon and I won't have to wait very long to upgrade. My idea is that I would be able to continue to use new GPUs for several years with the PCIe 5 slots, so I can upgrade that a couple times as well. I would not have believed that AMD would follow through with that without them having done so already with AM4. Before AM4, I used Intel pretty much exclusively. My first computer that I built personally was a core 2 duo, and the computer I first played games on was a Pentium 4 playing those super cool new games Diablo, Starcraft, and AOE2. I continued to use Intel up through the 6000 series and then built my first AM4 board with a Ryzen 7 1700X partially off of the hope that it will be something cool to get in on the ground floor of, but also because of it being pretty cheap for an 8 core CPU. I sold that off during the pandemic because, working in healthcare, I needed something portable to use since I was never home, but I look forward to using this new computer for years (I'm shooting for 6-8 for this motherboard).
PC world, pls invite FrameChaser and good old gamer for an interview! They’re pros at memory tuning! 🤩
As for Intel not having the 'CPU not supported for motherboard' issue, that's not entirely true. While AMD's issues were a bit more frequent, due to sheer number of CPU generations that AM4 supported, Intel had the same problems. If you had a Sandy Bridge board and CPU, you'd still need to update the board's BIOS before dropping in an Ivy Bridge CPU. It's just the nature of things - there is no over the air BIOS update (yet! thankfully ...).
You know not everyone does interviews on their machines or nasa simulations. You can put OC profiles on ryzen master or xtu and you dual boot anyway.
For the discussion, I am curious then. Assuming AMD did have AM5 Motherboards to run on DD4 or DDR5, would that have "weighed" more in their favor? As it stands, AMD has at most +/-30% market share on the consumer market (retail) right? By having 2 Memory Options on the AM5 boards, that would further complicate sales as they are not the majority in market share unlike Intel who had some "leeway" with board partners who were willing to make 12th gen and 13th gen boards that can run dd4. So, would a 'B620?' line that exclusively runs dd4 have been the "better" course of action as it is the budget motherboard lineup/series? 650, 670 or higher would exclusively be for dd5 ram to segragate it properly without causing confusion as to what memory can be used with the board? And as an addiition if we treat a "620 line" as budget motherboard, explore limiting it to PCie 4.0 limited for it? So in summary 670 Boards - DDR5 RAM, PCIe 5.0 650 Boards - DDR5 RAM, PCIe 4.0 (are any going to be fitted with PCIe 5.0 even for limited slots? These haven't all been launched if I'm not mistaken) theoreticval 620 Boards - 2xDDR4 RAM, 2xPCIe4.0 with limited slots (1 for video card, 1 for NVMe) and other possible connections would be limited to PCIe3.0? to continue the "Budget lineup" specs
GPU connectors problem is not voltage, it's amperage. You could put 1000 volts across the cable/connector assembly with amperage set to 10 amps no problem. Put 50 volts with 1000 amps across it and it would burst into flame in seconds.
Brilliant episode! Hot Fuzz is hilarious!
I think the problem with the newest CPU's is that the Last 4 gen products from both companies are still relevant. It's not like we have been stuck on 4 cores for 10 years at this point and the software has not matured to the point that these older CPU's feel slow. Yes the newest products can get you 30% more frames in your games if you are using the latest 1500 dollar GPU, but for most people running a GPU below a 3070 the CPU is not the bottleneck in most games or programs. So even though CPU's are no longer stagnant, they have kinda shot theirselves in the foot by making such good CPU's over the last 6-7 years.
I was sold on 13th gen. But last minute on launch day went 7950x with an arc gpu (till other new cards come out). My reason is that AMD had treated me well. My 3900x was great, I never did do a in socket upgrade. On launch day, I was looking at all my options. I did not think the intel motherboards were cheaper. And for the same price, it looked like the am5 boards had more features. I got my big box of greatness delivered, so now I just need to assemble it. Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow. I almost purchased a 4090, twice. But every time I went to do it, the thing was sold out after clicking add to cart. Now It looks like it's for the best because those things are probably going to burn down some houses. AV1, I doubt will fail. The founding members are Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla and Netflix. So, for the average person wanting to stream to the interwebs, I'm pretty sure it won't be an issue. Star Trek the Motion Picture is lots of amazing. Also, tacos are great. 🌮🌮🌮🌮
I bought an Intel 10850k last year with the Nvidia 3080ti and it's really responsive and fast that i don't see myself building another PC for at least 3 years or more. I'm I the only one that recently upgraded ?
Will if you get zen4 3-4 years down the road you can drop in a new zen cpu
Gordon's anti-🦝 rant literally angered the earth 😁 Episode was gold. Will Smith (not that Will Smith, Twitter folks) was a great guest.
Aww… missed the livestream!
This episode is hilarious lol
If turbo buttons come back for gamers, they need the same name shooters give select fire arms: Giggle Switch.
Someone tell Gordon, the movie "Alien" used the storyline and finale from an old Marshall Thompson movie "It, the Terror from Beyond Space". "It" counts the director John Carpenter among its fans. The cast is excellent and the low budget doesn’t hurt it. The science was terrible but not a problem. Like John Carpenter, I saw "It, The terror from Beyond Space" when it first came out. I was ten years old. I loved it then and it’s still as good now. It’s available on DVD and BLU RAY.
If the i5-13600K has such great performance, I am curious to see what the i5-13400 can do. I am in no hurry to upgrade, so I will watch the developments. I think that for now, the AMD Zen 4 products lack appeal to me unless I am looking at the R9 7950. Intel has got the rest of Zen 4 covered and has lower total cost as well. People may be making too much of Intel's high power consumption, but how much time do you have the CPU running at 100%? At normal workloads the CPU should be operating at less than 60% most of the time. At that level, the difference in power consumption should not be significant.
It's rumoured that everything below 13600 - parts without e cores are alder lake refreshes
@@aravindpallippara1577 It is also rumoured that these parts will come with E cores and higher clock speeds. Going by 12th Gen SKUs, the 13400, 13500 and 13600 should be the same CPU running at different clock speeds.
@@fleemwings207 well I was half wrong, you were half right 13500 is the lowest raptor lake die for 13th gen, but it has worse clocks than 13600k across the board (as expected) everything below 13500 is an alder lake refresh ( that includes 13400, 13100 parts)
4:48 Star Trek: Enterprise only had Riker for the very last episode, and it had nothing to do with the show being good or bad. But the show was so bad that fans raised $32 MILLION to try to keep it on the air. That's an objective fact that can be looked up.
i too want another b.f. 3...
laughing about the bit flip believers :) , but seriously Vroc is now fully active in z690 and also presumably z790 and afaik doesnt need an intel dongle any more , also alderlake does support ECC you just have to buy an appropriately expensive 1700 ECC supporting board ( MW34-SP0 gigabyte for example ) and then find supported ECC to fill it up. I feel all of the 12VHPWR connectors should be a fully moulded 90 degree right angled connector block if bending this is going to be a safety problem. either that or Nvidia need to enforce a better placement to minimize unwanted forces applied to the connector.
You should do a hall of fame for software.
Here is my issue with upscalers (from all 3 companies). None of them fixes TAA issues. The worst part is, first DLSS was atrocious, FSR 1 was bad and FSR 2.0 have insane ghosting (how these got released to begin with) and XeSS has temporal stability issues. Ghosting and stability can be seen when tweaking TAA in unreal engine. The fact that TAA is atrocious in unreal games is not because TAA is horrible, it is because game devs never bothered to spend 5-10 minutes to make it better (to make it as best as possible takes some extra testing,, which can be done while testing the game anyway). TAA tweaking can be done with 2 commands by users in UE4, "r.TemporalAACurrentFrameWeight" (lower values increase ghosting, softness and stability, higher valuer reduce ghosting and stability while giving clearer image) and "r.TemporalAASamples" (setting this to 2 will lower stability issues from higher values and FrameWeight while not affecting image quality in any noticeable way). Adding sharpening (again, it can be tweaked in 1% steps) and upscale quality into the mix (there is 7 or so algorithms, tho, nearest filtering should not be used and is skipped by default presets), and we get comparable image quality to those 3 upscalers, it does not require any updates and options could be placed as sliders in settings for individual fine-tuning without going into ini files or using console (if available or unlocked). There is a reason why Epic made their own upscaler for UE5, it was already there, just got improved... I strongly disagree that devs should have easier time, because they can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to make their game to look better or actually learn what their tools capable of. Or they simply do not care, it is the same reason why we had abomination releases from nvidia and AMD (XeSS so far was not as bad, but is still bad as upscaler).
If they never did episode 200, doesn't it make this episode 199 part 35?
We called it the Dust Buster video card....
Lower decks is good but star trek the motion picture is bad , I've heard all of gordens rants , but that's the most Insane thing he's said
Nothing like watching Gordon insulting half of the world's population while talking about hardware.
Question at 45:27. He claims the 4090 is so fast that he can’t get it to be CPU bound on any game. Did he mean to say GPU bound? I’m trying to understand his point?
He meant GPU.
1.30, Russia
Who would win: Gordon or 1000 raccoons?
the newest cpus are cool - simply just think about that 🤣 (lol)
Will Smith Nikes looking fresh. Damn, what kinda shoes are those? Will Smith Nikes. Whaaaaat? Smugly. Not that Will Smith.
I was 12 and I liked the wild west movie when it came out. wiki-wiki-wa, wiki-wiki-wa-wa!
Suuure. I totally believe that Nvidia isn't handing out money left and right to make companies adapt DLSS or ray tracing. Tooootally.
Enterprise was good, except for that last episode. I did not even hate my ex-wife enough to make her watch it. The theme song was garbage, good for maybe the pilot, but after, baaaaaaaarf!
Gordon again crapping all over the internet without a single positive thing to say. Seems odd given his business relies on the Internet. News flash Gordon, if it wasn't for the Internet, information about melting connectors would have gone unreported for the most part. But no, Gordon has to paint Internet users as angry consumers with the largest brush possible. Oh Gordon, never change.
Gordon was in fine form
VRs dead... again. Same problem, no actual games (not counting tech demos or mini games). Try again in 25 years.
VR is an absolutely must for what I like to call "cockpit games". Racing sims, flight sims, space games, etc. Once you go VR on those kind of games, it's very difficult to go back to pancake vision. Apart the dreadful lack of immersion playing in 2D, I'm usually one to three seconds slower on racing sims when I play on my ultrawide monitor.
I somewhat agree. But I don’t know if you ever played Pavlov on VR - it’s an fps. using the guns is very cool.
tiktok is trash
Fake frames that increases latency? Lol
western tech channels/experts need to stop assuming that everyone in this planet changes cpu's and platforms every 2 years. we literally buy a pc for 5-6 years coz that is how much we can afford. stop being the rich a-holes and actually think like a normal regular person who has other needs as well. Even buying a new cpu for the same socket is a shit ton of money to put in unlike in western nations where you guys throw away most of your stuff just coz its not cool anymore. we cant afford that.
I was thinking to get an AM5, the motherboard cost is high but I am going to middle section, in where is looks bad buy anything from AMD, even a 13600K beats on performance and games AMD 7700X. It is 329 us vs 400 us. Do not make sense going to AMD, if AMD put the 7700X sale for 300 still doesn't make sense, intel has more cores and better performance. I think AMD needs E-Cores asap!!!!.
Yes, an interesting idea. I wonder how 4 or 5 nm Zen 2 cores would do - 6 Zen4 P in one chiplet and 8 Zen2 E in the other.
This show is better when it’s Gordon, Adam and a guest. Just my opinion.
Im gonna unsub Gordon adds no new knowledge to the table and all he does is apologies for Nvidia's greed and other failures. ITs obvious they designed a connector and pushed it into the market because they couldn't be bothered to make a normal size pcb. and we all know whats wrong with those cables from buildzoid video and the manufactures own recommendation for 30mm of unbent cable. which when combined with a huge gpu poses problems for midtower builds neverminded micro builds. I think its time Nvidia took some responsibility for once, unpaunches their 40 series and seriously considers their approach to the market.
I prefer to wait for more facts and data on this rather than jumping to a conclusion.