Draw with Your Shoulder? The Evidence Doesn't Add Up...
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This is one of those pieces of advice I have heard since I first started learning to draw! I regularly talk to students about these typical 'rules of thumb' that get handed down over the years.
In most cases if you just use common sense with your learning all of these ideas are fine (Drawing with your shoulder is...after all... one of the many ways to draw, and like all of the rest, it's important). But I have often seen people really run into issues if they take these things too seriously.
This video is meant to discuss how people actually draw... and how the way you draw affects the feeling in your art.
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Happy Drawing!
Tim Mcburnie
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So I personally agree with your core argument: no method is superior or inferior per se. It all depends on your needs, your comfort, your control and the overall context of the situation at hand. Nevertheless, I do think that the advice to draw from your shoulder (and elbow) does hold up nicely and is beneficial for the most part. Especially since most artists and teachers that I know of, clarify that this "rule" is not set in stone. I think the three important aspects you overlooked are that of habit, confidence and priorities. For many, if not most beginning artists, drawing with your wrist and fingers is the most natural and intuitive method of drawing. Mostly because that's how we practised writing. Meaning there often is a pre-existing habit, a bias we internalize, often without even being aware of it. Emphasizing to draw with your whole arm can aid to counterbalance that bias, so that the artist can eventually gain a more complete sense of control. Secondly, using the shoulder not only encourages fluid marks, but also to develop a sense of commitment and confidence. And lastly, large marks are not only useful when working on large canvases. No they also encourage the artist to prioritize large forms and rhythms over smaller details which are less important for the learning process. To sum it up, I think drawing from your shoulder is an incredibly useful intermediate stage, which can then be altered once you gain more experience.
Hey Schrödingers Katze! Those are all great points. I think that you are totally right... it's great advice to get people to loosen up. And most people do really seem to struggle 'letting go' and drawing with everything instead of treating it like writing.
Drawabox really honor your point, they are drilling me the "Draw from the shoulder" thing in they course excercises, but at the same time they let you draw however you like when doing free drawing on your own. I like that they are flexible with that.
Think the argument here should be, does it add value to you as an artist versus is it superior or better. Draw a box for example the website focus's almost entirely on this prospect but its explained that they do so in order to teach your body to be able to use the shoulder. Does not say anything about it being better, it talks about different ranges with drawing from wrist, elbow and shoulder. So I think this is more about having a extra tool to use in situations that play to its advantages.
There's a lot of confusion and misinformation out there regarding drawing from your shoulder and I've seen it perpetuate by beginners who were told to do that, to beginners who didn't know any better. Thank you for shedding some light on this misconception!
Thanks agency! Yeah there’s so much information out there at the moment. I’m trying to cover these topics in as much detail as possible so that people can hopefully understand how it relates to them as opposed to a blanket statement of ‘do this’ or ‘do that’
Many artists that try to pass down this advice to beginners often forget what you precisely mention, we all have our own way of drawing, in the sense that our body muscles react in a specific way depending on your subject. That's where we start to evaluate "Do I need to use my entire shoulder for these lines in particular?" In short, drawing with the shoulder is a legitimate way to learn to draw, but not the only, which I think is a huge mistake many artists make by accident, they paint it like if it was THE only way to get good lines, but it really comes down to how you approach each drawing and what works best for you to draw it. Great content Tim! Can't wait to see more insight from you!
Thanks for your thoughts Clanker! Yeah I think a lot of people trust themselves when it comes to these things. But I have also seen a lot of people really get sidetracked when they take advice or common wisdom too seriously and to literally. Personally I got caught by a couple of these things on my journey. That’s why I’m making these videos to give a slightly more nuanced view!
Sooo... Big canvas = draw with shoulder... Small canvas = draw with elbow wrist or fingers...
Pretty much! :-)
I completely agree with you on so many points! Your body just knows what part of it to move for each and every line you put down (at least with experience). I've been drawing since I was a kid (close to 30 years), and my skills since then have improved immensely. What I've only recently noticed is how I mainly draw from my wrist, but use my entire arm when creating larger strokes, such as when drawing circles. Does my wrist-drawing make me less of an artist, or make my art look amateurish? Hell no. But I would say drawing from the shoulder would help prevent carpel tunnel, something I'm always afraid I'll get... Anyway, awesome video!
Hello, Tim thanks for all the amazing content you are putting out! I first found you on Artstation, with the lion warrior drawing you did and then found out about your youtube channel. Everything you say also in other videos resonates really with me! Thanks for reminding me why I like drawing keep it up!!!
Thanks Leon!! I'm glad you are liking the videos so far!
When used on table or leaning desk, using your shoulder actually comes from drawing circles. To get the best circle, you need to draw it without your hand touching the page. Touching the page with our hand is what prevents us from being able to draw accurate circles larger than a couple of inches. It does not need to be used for any other purpose in drawing on a desk or table. That is the only time I see atilier students use their whole arms when drawing on a leaning or level surface. Proko, or instance, uses his palm on the paper for normal drawing, but raises his hand off the page to use his whole arm to draw circles after a few practice circulations.
Thanks for your thoughts Dismythed! Yeah those are all good points. Using your shoulder for circles is certainly a bit part of that style of drawing (The Atelier life drawing style). I also think this method is used a lot in industrial design. Both are areas of art where you want a lot of nice looking smooth lines. Automotive design in particular is all about drawing dynamic lines and circles with energy. If you watch some of the videos that Akihito Yoshitomi has on his channel you can see that it's possible to draw good circles with multiple strokes. I think this derives from drawing with a G-Pen or similar inking device... where there is no way to move the drawing tool in a circular motion.
@@TheDrawingCodex It also depends on the speed with which you want to draw Most artists, even Atelier students like Proko and many, many others, put down multiple lines to draw. I have ADHD, so I had to learn to speed up my drawing practice because the image in my head would move before I was half way through putting the outline down. So I started doing things to reduce the time it takes to get the image down. Besides quickly identifying the terminating and jutting points immediately, I make only a single line to map out an arm or even a whole side of a person in less than 5 seconds. So I learned to put an image down accurately with as few lines as possible. Learning single stroke circles from the shoulder was part of that. That I learned from videos, but putting down as long a line as possible without liftinf the pencil I taught myself because it was essential to speed. I can have an entire figure down in under a minute, detailed in 5 minutes and shaded with straight line hatching within 20 minutes. So what takes an atelier student an hour, I do in about 20 to 25 minutes because of using fewer lines that have to be erased.
I've never tried this but it could be an interesting experience for me! At least to draw my outlines 😊
Nice! Go for it :)
As an artist just returning to the field i find my skills have gotten rusty so your mention of drawing exercises has me very excited! Can’t wait for that video. Thanks for all the great content
Hey Bob! Yeah it can be hard to shake off the rust :) Here is one of the videos that talks about straight line exercises kzhead.info/sun/hM-ppJqSrH9-gGw/bejne.html More to come soon. Still figuring out how to present these types of exercises through youtube. If you try any of them out and have any thoughts please let me know! Just focus on drawing within your comfort zone and building a ritual for drawing regularly. Once you get all the cobwebs blasted out by putting pen to paper things will come together!
@@TheDrawingCodex hey! I found the draw from the shoulder to be a good fresh perspective on the topic, given I had just encountered a person practically foaming at the mouth saying it was required. But after years of working in animation I had come around to the same conclusion. This like exercise is good and I have mixed in trying to change line weight and pressure consistently as well. I changed careers say from art but, it’s my first love and I can’t stay away even if it’s only for me haha.
Hey Bob (Apologies only just saw your comment here) Haha, yeah I have seen people foam at the mouth over the shoulder thing! I'm glad you are heading back to art!
So much valuable content, so many good tips, so much expertise in your videos, but so few subscribers and views. What a shame...
Thanks Wintermute! I appreciate the support! Not to worry, I'm only getting started :)
Tried it many times, never worked for me, i just drawing how i draw, mostly elbow and wrist, rarely from my shoulder.
I often draw from the shoulder, because it's more comfortable for me and I can draw longer lines with it.
Something that I teach my students is that they should draw from the shoulder or elbow to learn to draw more dynamic and longer straighter confident lines. You can draw very short lines with those joints. The wrist alone can only draw inside of a proscribed arc, while the shoulder has a larger dynamic range, even at a small scale. Most students show up with furry looking drawings that represent their lack of experience and confidence. But more importantly than that is preventing carpal tunnel syndrome which can require surgery and therapy to repair. It’s something that becomes more likely over time as you get older I gave it to myself doing something other than drawing while bolting and unbolting a project. I’ve always been careful to draw from those other joints 95% of the time. Hands that suddenly go numb and buzz so much you can’t sleep is a significant problem. It took weeks for that to settle down and comes back if I’m not careful how I handle my tools, drawing or otherwise.
+1 Trent Kaniuga is another really good artist who uses the "chicken scratch" method.
Have you found the 'Draw from your shoulder' advice helpful or frustrating? Let me know, I'm keen to hear everyone's experience!
👍🏻
I have some mixed feelings... Like, i feel this advice has been brought up so much however, little emphasis is placed on health. about being careful how you use your arm and not straining yourself. on how to replicate the movements and variations, little is shown. just as little is shown of the value in finding your own way of doing them so you don't end up at a doctor. Actually the first tip they give is to go to the doctor lol I believe that drawing and practicing exercises have strong similarities as we are making a corporal effort, first and foremost. However, the stigma about pursuing a career in drawing continues to haunt us til this decade. Even though there are already facts proving that it is possible not to "starve" working with art. In this way, I believe that no help can be given, as other people will always dismiss the career as something of lesser value.
It was helpful at first, but later I got obsessed with drawing the 'right way' and it impeded my progress.
The real question is... What are you currently playing on that Ps5? J/k Thanks for the great advice as usual.
Haha, :) not a lot at the moment unfortunately! Thanks!!
I beg your pardon but how can I grab the guide? I cannot access the website...
This link isn’t working for you? www.thedrawingcodex.com/quickstart
Perhaps it comes in part from the teacher's desire to have the student emphasize form over details in building the foundation. A physical shift in action-especially one that's unfamiliar-is the surest way to a mental shift that a lot of beginners need. They also need focus. Any mention of exception to the rule would only serve to distract... There are, of course, just as many exceptions (and geniuses apparently) as there are rules.
Hey Travis! Yeah I think there is an element in many of these teaching motifs and challenges... the goal is often to 'wake up' the student a bit and make sure they re-evaluate what they are doing. I guess the question is always does this work :) I suspect some people respond well to this type of lateral exploration. I think it also turns a lot of people off and shuts them down from an educational stand point. Often the culprit with this type of 'rule' is big classes :) Not enough 1on1 tailored advice (which is not really anyone's fault). Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@TheDrawingCodex In a classroom environment, one that provides little wiggle room for students to experiment, I imagine this would be more damaging than productive. There are two wolves to feed in art. One is system, and one is expression. And they tend to battle it out when food's on the table. What I think has been most helpful for me is to get all the information available (Don't be ignorant in learning, as Jim Rohn puts it) and throw out anything that doesn't feel right.
It's not that drawing scratchy is bad, what's bad is leaving areas around the line that don't follow the shape, which is what Yoshimoto doesn't have, he has full control over each line and doesn't draw it more than once. Chicken scratch and flowy lines are stylistic choices, but inconsistency will make any drawing look bad
Yeah that's a good way of putting it. Consistency is king!
The thing is, some beginners use style as an excuse for their chicken scratching when in fact, it happens when they’re not confident on the lines they are making.
"Pretty" is maybe not the right description of the older tradition. The flowy lines are more like creating composition, movement, and rhythm when arranging figures. Leading the eye and all that. Which clashes with the very graphical styles that predominate today. Which has the same sentiment, but without putting down more dynamic drawing traditions :)
Yo the ps5 in the background?
Haha yep :)
Peep the ps5 in the back
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