Here is longer video ont he topic: • Western vs Japanese Sa...
Join the Hive mind where I bounce Ideas around: / discord
Facebook Hivemind: / 233277323895597
Patreon: / woodbywright
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @woodbywright
How To Channel
Wood By Wright 2: / @woodbywrighthowto
--Tools I Suggest--
www.woodbywright.com/tool-sug...
--Find Antique tools near you--
www.HandToolFinder.com
THE MAN
Alex Adams Instagram: @typeawoodworking
Top Patreon Supporters:
DFM tool Works: dfmtoolworks.com/
Andrew Wilson
Alan Smith: www.flourishinggrace.org/listen/
JT BelKnap: dfmtoolworks.com/
Brian Suker
Kenny-Anjanette Horn
Christopher Brown
Alex Adams
Unsharpen: unsharpen.com/
Ian McElcheran
Russell Gough
////Help this channel grow\\\\
www.woodbywright.com/support/
////You Can find me:\\\\
www.woodbywright.com/contact-me/
TikTok: / woodbywright
Instagram: / woodbywright
Facebook: / woodbywright
Intro music: Tim Sway timsway.net/
background music: Udo Stehle www.upwork.com/freelancers/~0...
Instagram: @udostehle
here is a longer video on the topic: kzhead.info/sun/Y7d6g7aHkZp5qYE/bejne.html
This proves everything Japanese need not need to be good .
do you know where i can get that shirt for my dad?
I know which saw is better, as a matter of fact it's a very simple answer - it depends, on nuances. But the average person is not all that smart, and the most vocal ones are even less so, and nuance requires brain power to process (as a saying in my country goes, an empty barrel can be heard from afar, meaning that empty headed people are usually the loudest.) Stupid people hate nuance and love to think themselves right.
Dude that is a rad shirt
Wow you are wrong so wrong. First that Japanese one took about 15 years to make and takes about 5 years to learn how to use and 10 more years to master and will snap if slightly used wrong. The American saw can be used both forward and back. The American one is instantly able to learn and takes no time at all to master. The Japanese is poor quality far more expensive and just trash. The Japanese saw will cost over $5000 while the American saw is about $5. Is one better yes its the American made. Japanese does make second best quality in the world which when you look at how bad Japanese quality really is then you start to realize why America became known as the single greatest country in the world.
Personally, I like to manually break the atomic bonds to get two pieces of wood. Cleanest cut you'll they get
I prefer fissioning the carbon atoms in celulose and breaking the wood apart that way. Cleanest cut I've seen.
I prefer using nuclear fusion to fuse the atoms in the wood into more energetic U-235 but thats just my preference.
I prefer to alter the initial parameters of the big bang so the resulting universe evolves to contain the exact number of molecules in precisely the shape I need. But that's just one way to do it.
So you a sf katana enjoyer
I personally hack into the main frame of the wood block select the row I want to cut and then delete all connecting files in that row. There are zero flaws to this method. Granted it is very difficult to do since you need a jumper cable.
Personaly, I prefer to use a group if termites I control because I am wearing a termite king costume and they listen to my orders to cut the wood.
The Dr Animo method
Man, I thought you were the thermite guy again for a second. Oops.
I'm having problems with the termites getting a thin kerf. Any suggestions? Maybe a termite king crown from a different region?
@@johnagorman According to personal anecdotes the number of crowns you have dictates how much power you have over your termites. However as I am sure you understand a king who rules with a heavy hand losses his crown sooner than later. Abuse the power of multiple crowns too much, and you won't be left with a crown at all. Socioeconomic problems that come up because you're drunk on power is your responsibility. Never forget this and your problem will be solved.
What does a termite king costume look like exactly ? Envisioning it is absolutely ridiculous and preposterous, but equally funny and creative.
I yell at the wood until it bends to my will
Poor Private Pine :
But now it's bent
Make an intimidation check
@@federicofranco4519Angry carpentry
@@advanceringnewholderThe Orc who intimidated wood
I watched my friend try to saw through a log with a machete for the bonfire the other night. None of us corrected him just sat and watched him struggle for over 2 hours lol.
Smooth
One, I think, good use for Japanese saws is to teach young children basic woodworking skills. There lighter weight and a child’s tendency to use both hands fits well.
First thing I did with a japanese saw was cut myself. (edit) Sliding back the protection over its razor sharp teeth.
@@2adamast That’s odd, the first thing I did with a western saw was cut myself. Dropped the saw and ran into the house screaming. My mom got mad because I dropped the saw in the dirt. 😳
Perhaps, although anecdotally i learned fine when i was very young with a western saw
Damn.. I'll have to check my girlfriend's ID 🪪😅
Not going to lie, I don't necessarily think that children should be working with saws, at least not while they're young enough to be doing things instinctively with both arms like that. It feels like a skill that should wait until there may be between 10 and 12, just for safeties sake. There are plenty of other things that can be taught to them before getting into saws to give him a solid foundation in woodworking.
I headbutt pieces of wood. Not even to split them, I just like the sound it makes
That sounds apt for someone who headbutts wood
I used to headbutt trees when I was a kid. So much fun. I’ve slacked for about 10 years thanks to moving to America and I have seriously grown weaker.
A true craftsman ☺️
@@okipullup6103 There’s still time
This seriously made me chuckle hahahah. Y'all are hilarious, don't know how you guys do it.
All I'm hearing is "Use whichever you find more comfortable to use. It's cutting wood; not rocket surgery."😂❤
I personally find it most comfortable to split the atoms of the wood. You get the perfect cut that way
One thing i remembered my dad thought me with whatever saw to use: "let the saw do the work"
Words to move by.
Personally I like to rip the wood apart using two black holes. It’s a little inconsistent but very powerful.
Now where did I put my maul? Ah crap...
It does give a very interesting grain.
I lived in japan for a few years in middle-school. The thing I hated the most about woodworking class were the saws since I was used to the western type. I would instinctively use only one hand, and everything ended up wobbley and horrible lol. My teacher was nice and let me use a western-style saw he had, and that made it a lot more fun. You a real g Nakamura-san
W
I don't know Nakamura-san, but I love Nakamura-san. That's a good freaking teacher.
For me whenever I use a Japanese saw (right way and wrong way) I always get rather crooked cuts. With a Western it's no issue since they're not nearly as flexible.
Japan has woodworking classes for middle schoolers?
@@mitchellbryant4506most countries with decent education systems start treating children like adults in their education when they turn 10. Americans and Canadians are insanely overprotective of our children beyond all reason or benefit.
So THAT'S why the saw in Ocarina of Time looks so unusual, it's a Japanese saw lol
I had the same realization when watching this video
i dont use tools to cut my wood, i just bite it
Does it work?
My personal technique involves tearing the wood in half like a caveman. It's not precise, but boy is it fast.
Ooga booga, me make firewood
@@judas1213 Ugh oog me make fire.
You mean like Captain America
i'd like to see you "caveman" a peice of seasoned tallowwood in half.
How do you crosscut?
Personally I like giving my wood an intense death glare until it tears itself in half out of fear.
Insulting it is my way to go
Ah, a student of the Grog The Angry Carpenter school
Awe yes, the Chuck Norris saw.
I recommend simply spending 10,000 years mastering the perfect karate chop, thus making tools redundant.
I just rent out Jackie Chan to cut my wood.
So a Chinese saw?
@@psilocybicacid7667 He's American so he thinks they are all the same...
I don't think you're cutting your wood right. Jackie Chan is an odd choice but whatever works for your wood, I guess.
Nice to see a video where Bill Burr is actually calm.
Well heeya go!
Ole freckles got a temper probably. (Distant voice) psycho. (Unnatural forced kaugh). Bill bur is a treasure
Underated comment
Ol Billy RedBalls 💀
He skipped right over ur comment
“The best saw is the one that cuts the wood.” That’s good advice for any occasion.
Generic countryman advice 101
It's like the same advice about cameras. "The best camera is the one you have with you"
@@snowhusk Same with Programming languages and Martial Arts: The best one is the one you know.
I worked at a wood working place for years and never got a proper explanation as to the difference, now it actually makes since. 👌
Personally, I verbally abuse the wood until it cuts itself. Provides a clean cut, and other wood in the area tends to cut itself
why is Bill Burr threatening me with blades?
Then he slips something in your drink and becomes Bill Blur
@@FranciscoCastelluccio then the waiter walks up and he says bill her
Personally I prefer to use a hammer and an axe head balanced precariously upon the wood. It's not a cheap, easy, effective or even sensical style, but I value novelty over all of the above and it's quite novel.
...says the woodworking hack! ....it's a joke, lol, to each their own favorite ways and means!
Never had this approach to crafting, but where it comes to travel, a rental electric scooter is neither faster, nor safer, nor cheaper, nor more comfortable than a bus, but it's totally less boring.
@@dracodwarf6256 I'll have to try that method out myself!
@@dracodwarf6256 In half? In my tries it cut the wood into two thirds. I mean, they are technically two halves of what remains after the process, but still, cutting a 1-meter plank yields two ~33cm pieces.
@@sharpfang skill issue. Maybe wood working isn't for everyone. However I do recommend trying the thermal lance if basic thermite doesn't work.
You can always tell when a youtuber has a good community by the comments left. Keep up the hard work Bill Burr. The comments on how people cut their wood are outstanding! Personally, I use my Marine Corp issued Knife hand to cut my wood.
I love seeing how despite the huge distance and differing starting conditions We humans manage to come up with similar solutions to the same problem
Yes! I stumbled upon my favourite example of this in History class. Our book about the Spanish colonization of South America included a report from one of the Spaniards about the Aztec city Tenochtitlan. He described how the Aztecs had people controlling the market for example. If they found a wrong measure being used they took it away and broke it. Overall many things were similar to life in Europe at the time. It blew my mind and I loved it. Also Tenochtitlan seemed to be an awesome city.
It's the technological equivalent of convergent evolution, the same job demands the same form
@@Alinor24 this paragraph doesn't make any sense. rewrite it?
@@iwanttwoscoops Sorry, but I don't see your problem with my text. Which part do you not understand?
@@Alinor24 it’s a tragedy that they plundered and destroyed the city, what a sight it must’ve been, it had like a population of 100,000 and was in the middle of a Great Lake with beautiful architecture and infrastructure. No wonder the Spanish were in awe seeing the city
The biggest problem people have with western style saws is they don't let the saw do the cutting. They try and push down and that drives the blade in different directions. Also doesn't help a lot of people use dull saws and try and think pushing harder will fix the problem. Like a chainsaw, you need to let the saw do the cutting.
I see this a lot with beginners, they don't use the entirety of the sawblade and push down instead of letting the saw do all the work. I'm from germany and in trade school our instructors used to say "Säge sowie Schwanz, benutzt man ganz!" "Saw just like dick, use all of it" maybe a little crude but got the message across to a bunch of 16-18 year old boys haha
My only problem is that with a western saw sometimes it will stick in the wood and since pressure is only applied from behind and it has more traction so to speak on the push stroke it's more likely to bend under pressure whereas on the pull stroke it's under tension causing it to stay straight more easily even if it gets caught. Maybe it has to do with what I'm cutting though.
When I was younger I used the American saw all the time once I learned how to use it properly it was pretty easy and to be honest was the better version in my book because of how after you learn to use it it allows you to have a free hand to maneuver the wood and is much more stable with less risk of cutting yourself from a saw slide
@@dontbother2455american saw?
@@MrSinEon that's what they call it
I just go to taco Bell and use my fart blaster to cut the wood like a water jet. Cleanest cut ever.
I have a little 5"Japanese saw on my tool tote, and I use it all the time to cut little notches and things. It's super useful.
"The best one to use is the one that cuts the wood" *Almost always what matters at the end of the day.*
Best thing about these saws is, you can have both of them is the same shop and use what ever one you want on a given task and switch between them, only choice here is how many is too many!!
When i need a board cut in two I call Chuck Norris then he looks at the board he thinks about it, looks at it really hard and walks away. As he walks away it snaps in two. Clean cut every time
Off topic but.. I absolutely adore your shirt!
in my opinion the best of these styles of saw is the one that suits the person using it .
And the job at hand!
Japanese saws are better for people who learn how to use Japanese saws
@@MonsieurArlequin I find pulling a lot easier, since on push I angle downwards too hard, catching the teeth, and on pull I find easier to lighten up.
@@anonymousapproximation8549 Japanese saw for people who can't use a saw properly American saw for everyone else
@@dontbother2455 American saws for people scared of being called out for their tiny penis, you mean.
I do not need saws. The Wood obeys me and shatters upon my command.
Just passing through on a yt short binge. Very interesting subject thank you for showing us
I have both of those saws they use on a regular basis for trim, you’re correct the saws our job oriented
I really liked the way you did this! Making it especially clear that both of them are incredibly valid choices with no ‘better’ option, yet still showcasing their differences
The japanese saw has usually a thinner blade, they dont have to withstand the force of pushing them to cut through the wood. When you pull them, they straighten themselves out
Very good point about straightening
The thin blade is also what gives them a lot of appeal/common advantages. Because they are so thin, it is far easier to be precise and you waste less wood. As you saw, some western ones have a thin blade with a structural support on top, but this means it can’t be used to cut through thicker pieces. However, it’s very easy to permanently damage a Japanese saw, and much harder to damage a western on. At the end of the day, a sharp saw, of any type preferred by the user is the best saw
Personally I stand around while someone else does it and refuse if they ask me to help in case i do it wrong then feel bad that I did or feel bad that I did nothing while they do the work.
I'm honestly I love how many uses I get out of my little Japanese saw. Especially if I have to cut something pretty flush at a weird angle. I've also used it to cut some PVC pipe in a tight corner where I essentially just had to lay the saw on top and then give it a yank no way I was going to be able to do that with a saw that cuts on the push stroke
Honestly the Japanese ones seem like an extremely nice way for children to get into wood working in school for example. I mean, I for one remember every single child using both hands when doing wood working, and 75% of the time you'd be stuck halfway in the wood cuz you don't have the proper arm strength to push it against the log, sometimes.
japanese people are pretty much just big children in a way
Best one to use is the one that you personally prefer. No right or wrong answer.
Congrats Mr and Mrs Shorts. House looks amazing.
The real takeaway is to try both, pull saws rock but often the thinner blade means it can go walkies on you, pull saws with a good guide though "chef's kiss".
I used a Japanese handsaw when I worked with ICF forms it's nice to just let gravity keep your cut straight
“Heh. Yeah, we’re gonna do this.” Took the thought right out of my brain before I could even utter one word of it.
But… he can’t hear you…
Thank you for the work you do. I enjoy your videos
I tried sawing planks for some garden planters, what I learned is a softer stroke will cut easier/faster than a forceful stroke. I suppose the teeth could also be sharper too...
I have that same pull saw. I absolutely love it. It's been my go-to saw the last few years. All of my other saws just hang on the shelf.
I never knew that Japanese saws were different, but now I know why the pocher's saw in Ocarina of time didn't look like a saw!
But it DOES
In my out and about tool box, I keep a Japanese saw. Compact, easy to use in the field, makes short work of the wood. In the shop, I tend to gravitate to the Japanese saw for rip and cross cuts (I put the wood I'm cutting on a stool). For dovetails and mitre work, a Western backsaw is my go to.
You get a rip and cross with the ryoba saw which is a nice bonus when your staring out and don’t want to buy a bunch of saws.
I’ve never got on with Japanese saws. I had my saws made for me by Shane Skelton at Skelton saws England and they are EXCELLENT
I like this explanation, because I can totally believe I found using the japanese-style more comfortable due to it being better at the rock-bottom price range I got it and because I'm not all that good myself yet.
I have used both a ton and I personally love to work with japanese saws. On the pull the Japanese tend to straighten themselves out, but just like you said you have to align them perfectly for a straight cut
DnD Orc character with Angry Carpenter skill. “Grog just stared at the wood until it knew better than to not be Crow’s Nest.”
I'd think the biggest difference between the two is the fact that one has a bolster on the spine of the blade while the other doesn't. The brace would obviously make it so the blade is in-line (or closer to) and under constant tension, but also acts as a maximum depth that it can function to. The other one, lacking that brace, can theoretically go to any depth, but is going to start to flex and bend out of alignment whenever it binds (which is probably why it's designed to only cut on the pull and not the push). But the ability to flex also means that it can be used in situations where a purely straight blade wouldn't work, like cutting a curved channel, or making a plug that's too deep to reach with the normal saw flush with a surface. Sorry if my terminology is wrong here, woodworking is a recent thing for me compared to metal, and I know blades better than I know saws.
both traditions had saws with and with out the back. and both made flush cut saws. but I would not want to use this Japanese saw for flush cut as it has set in the teeth that would scratch up the surface.
HAH this proves without a doubt that the superior saw is the one you individually prefer
I liked the way a Japanese saw with aggressive crosscut teeth could quickly remove branches from a tree (and I still like that). When I started woodworking, however, I struggled to cut straight with one. As you said, if you don't start the cut precisely, the cut is just going to go where it wants to go. Then I found a 100 year old Spear & Jackson dovetail saw, learned to sharpen it, and I haven't looked back. Much easier for me to get a precise cut. I also found a 4 tpi Disston rip saw, and I can quickly and accurately tear through boards with that thing (though the surface is a bit rough).
"There are no differences." "Here are pro's of the different saws".
"The best one to use is the one that cuts the wood" Whitch is both of them.
Sounds like what we say in the kitchen at work. The only bad knife is a dull knife. I think the same can be said for quite a few tools
I kinda like dull hammers tbh.
@@charlescarson4254 a sharp hammer is called a pick.
@@charlescarson4254and my most likey pointy hammer is Jackhammer.
The best one to use is the one that helps you get the results you're looking for.
I like your conclusion, and I think it applies to a lot of things in life.
The one to use is the one most available in your area.
I find it interesting how to cultures separated by 1000s of miles can develop the same thing with slightly different aspects
Think of the bow, a hunting weapon basically universally used across the globe for even the most remote civilizations with different styles to fit the different environments and prey being hunted.
Only 2 ways? My wife would agree but says I always choose the wrong way! LOL. What about seasaws?
Those are ideal for children.
As someone that wont ever use a saw in his life I see this as an absolute win
It’s all about the power of thought I think the wood is cut where I want and there it is . I built a whole house with this technique .
Philippines saw: if the handle is broken.. just repair with metal handle
Is no one going to mention that amazing shirt your wearing???
LOL i forgot my physics.. what does that mean?
*you're
@@astral_plane_crash dammit 🤣
@@El_Migz just kidding lol. I don't care about that stuff.
@@justanothermountainbiker6958 may the force be with you
Your shirt should just say "May the dp/dt be with you". Better puzzle that way.
final quote is so good
Actually I find that one beats the other depending on the use case. Both are good tools to have in your shop for their own reasons
Another factor with Japanese saws is the blades can bend very easily when stored improperly. My dad switched his entire shop to Western saws after we moved to TN because the movers just chucked his saws into a crate and shipped it. Not saying one is better, but please ensure your tools are maintained and stored properly.
Yeah but that goes for all tools, right? Personally I wouldn't change from Makita to Milwaukee, just because the movers stored my makita handdrill in a bucket of water. 😅
The best one to use is the one you personally feel comfortable with using. Like comparing chopsticks and forks.
Good info bro we appreciate the knowledge muchly appreciated
I feel very strongly both ways-I love both saws! And I use either when I think the situation best calls for it. Simple!
Exactly what I was going to say!
Don't most people keep collecting tools? Having both has been good for me, and I don't even pretend to be a real craftsman.
Did a woodworking course as a student and we were forced by the tutor to all use Japanese saws… It was hell. All my skill for woodworking went out the window… all my work became horrendously sloppy… I eventually ended up buying myself a really nice (& expensive) dovetail saw from Veritas. And as expected, the quality of work improved drastically!
I always wondered the difference and why Japanese saws are so revered. Thank you for this.
In my case, it was very easy to choose. I got a western saw, because it was the only one I could find with the correct kerf thickness for my application (.5mm for cutting fret slots for a guitar fingerboard). I got a pull saw because I wanted the cut to be straight without a mitre.
One of the biggest pros and cons: japanese saws cant be sharpened. They have induction hardened teeth and if you dull those it is always a toss. Western saws on the other hand can and have to be filed and set as often as you like
There are japanese saws than can be hardened and Western saws that cant. It's a Material question and doesn't have anything to do with the Style in general
@@JustiaFiat That's just not true. There is surely the 1% that is different from the other 99% but the majority is as stated above
@@harlicon Yeah, because they had the technology in ancient Japan to induction harden the teeth. Bro. Admit you're wrong. I've never even heard of induction hardening, and can't see how that would work on just the teeth since the teeth would need to be completely encircled by the induction coil. If it was the whole blade, sure. However, the process of hardening is just heating to the desired temp, then quenched at the desired rate. The speed at which you heat doesn't matter, but uniformity of heating does matter to an extent. Induction heating heats more uniformly.
@@Mosstachio Sry mate but thats not how induction heating works. kzhead.infoMZ0nvCVH3JM?feature=share Just a short video that shows it. And those saw teeth are harder but also become brittle and cannot be filed/sharpened again
@@harlicon They can be sharpened and filed. What you're sharpening with has to be harder than the metal you're sharpening. I didn't think of doing the induction heating that way, but it still functions the same. It's just another way to harden. I would rather have a hardened edge that's harder to sharpen than an edge that folds after one stroke and is easier to sharpen
Personally I just use a lightsaber. Cleanest cut ever. Even better than a saw or chainsaw.
Using one hand tends to get longer strokes on many things. So this is true!
I usually insert some control rods and isotopes and split the atoms apart
This is why to avoid conflict I just cut wood with my bare hands
I was going to tell a joke about Sodium, but I thought Na, nobody will get it.
He He He
That is not a joke to tell at the table.
Don't listen to Daniel, he's a bit salty.
I tell ya what, they always like the longer push stroke than a short pull stroke, especially when you master the single pump.
Outstanding answering this question for me. I kept wondering about that. I just assumed it's tradition.
"I know there's going to be a _lot_ of argument down below. Whatever you do, don't argue! Noooo, don't feed the algorithm, sthaaaapp! 🤫" Hahaha
Sounds like these saws are both saws that saw
My best saw cuts when I turn it on. :)~
The net force will be with you... always
I use European frame saws haha
I grew up with a hand saw for every piece of wood that I ever cut. That came from my Dad. The first power saw that he used in his life was one that my Mom bought him for Christmas one year back in 1977. Until then, if he wanted to rip a piece of plywood it was a hand saw that did the job, usually with me on the handle. Once I got a power saw in my grip I never looked back. In my book a hand saw is something that is a complete pain in the arse. Just like a nut-driver is to a drill driver.
May the (mass times [the change in velocity divided by the change in time]) be with you
The comment at the end nails it! xD
*Man with chainsaw walks in the room to completely invalidate the argument*
No this isnt a saw for cutting trees a chainsaw is a sledghammer sure great to have but you won’t use it to nail in a couple of nails
Sounds like switching between will get you the more even work out
I myself have both. A bigger western saw for larger items, and a smaller two-sided Japanese pull saw for smaller stuff. It has one set of teeth for cross cuts, while the other side is for rip cuts.