Living with Your AIRPLANE - Private Vs Airpark Communities
Living with your AIRPLANE - Private Vs Airpark Communities Kris Griewahn gives an honest talk on his Airport Property experience.
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Having your own runway is something only a few can obtain. My dad was a pilot in WW2 and flew the 101st airborne into Normandy on the first wave into France. He had quite a career in the Army Air Corps. Once the war was over and he came back to the home farm. He built a grass strip right down the middle of the hay field. From there he flew his J3, Luscombe, and Super Cub. Now 75 years later I own the farm and fly my Kitfox off the same patch of ground. The one thing I did not see on these comments was the amount of work it takes to maintain your own strip. I mow 7 acres of grass every week. I fertilize the grass every year. I am constantly trying to stay ahead of the pocket gophers. Each end of my runway there are tree's so I'm trimming trees every year. If you do not have the proper equipment or the time it takes to do the work you will be in for a surprise. I still work full time which is about 60 hours a week, so runway work takes up the rest of the time. I'm not complaining one bit. I love having my own strip but you really have to know how much work and time it takes to keep everything looking good. Spending time doing this is how I relax. Once in a while I even get to fly a little. Good luck to all you guys who are trying to get a patch of ground to build your own.
Great video! Even though I've had a 2100' airstrip (TN66) on my farm for nearly 30 yrs, I learned something - didn't know the FAA would protect my registered airstrip from obstructions. Tennessee is also aviation friendly - in my rural area, no local or state permits were required and no zoning. The only permit I had to pull was for the septic tank for my hanger's bathroom! LOL! All my neighbors are great people, too, and seem to truly enjoy seeing my plane come-and-go. Keep up the great work!
@John Austin Hey! Thanks for chiming in! We have a close eye on TN for the future. That is top of the list of options. All of the Eastern properties seem to be "UNDER CONTRACT" immediately these days. (everyone wants to be in the foothills of the mountains I suppose). We will get somewhere one day. Have to finish an Airplane and keep growing a business in the meantime.
Would you allow hanger rental? Build a t-hanger and pay rent for my Sonex?
How did you know I am planning a grass strip on the family farm and had some of these very questions which you asked?! Awesome video (maybe it should be a series ;-) ). Would enjoy a few more videos with more technical info and a sampling of different strips. Nice job!
Livin' the dream, rural areas for the win! HOA = yet ANOTHER level of government to deal with. 😡 Thanks for covering this topic Bryan. 👍👍👍
You are very welcome!
One of my favorite videos. Thanks Bryan. It was great to hear pros and cons to all instead of going through the same learning curve.
Thank You! Good to be on the favorite list! Yes... good to be able to learn something new together for sure!
Wow. We found this extremely interesting and relevant. We want to put in a grass strip, if we don't sell the property. We're out in the country. The questions you asked and the openness of the conversation was great. We have contemplated airparks but have stayed away, due to unreasonable costs. We never considered the politics
I couldn’t have planned finding this video better. I live in Sarasota and looked into purchasing a house at that airport but the realtor pulled a fast one and sold it to her friends before notifying me of the price change of the house but sounds like it was a blessing in disguise. So I have been going back and forth on airport community or property to put my own airstrip. Thank you so much for posting this video. It gave me good pointers. Keep up the great videos.
Extremely interesting and informative interview!! Thank you so much for sharing!!
Thanks for putting this video together. We just worked out a deal for some more property...we love the idea of having enough land for better ops, but we will have to basically pay for our property TWICE to get what we needed - sucks, but mortgage for a while, freedom forever ;) My Rule Book is get off my lawn - LOL ;)
Awesome video, thanks for putting this one together! We need more aviation homesites!
Recently moved to a property with it's own grass strip. Not a pilot myself, bought the property for other uses however I still keep the runway cleared and mowed because it is a small staple of the town and randoms like to drop in for a visit from time to time (had 4 folks just fly in that I've never met before). Not sure I will ever fly myself but it is fun to have and be able to see others make use of. Mowing it is at least weekly work but time I enjoy oddly enough. The town itself has memories of the old man who lived here before us flying the kids of the town for decades. I can't be the one to get rid of it.
You've got a great channel. Keep up the good work!
Thank You! We do our best! Learn something new everyday! Thank You very much for your support! :-)
This question is a lot like the question of whether to own a plane by yourself, in a small partnership, or in a flying club. Each option will appeal to different types of people depending on your resources and wants. Even if you are an airpark type of person, that doesn't mean that any airpark will be good for you. Choose carefully. There are a couple advantages of an airpark that didn't seem to get enough attention in this interview: -If you want to live near stores, restaurants, theaters, etc., then it is hard to find a big enough piece of property to build your own airport, especially if you have a limited budget and want to fly a plane with serious cross country capability. -If you are in an airpark of 50 homes, you are only paying 2% of the cost of maintaining the runway. Even if that runway is 5 times what you need, you are only paying 1/10 of what it would cost to have your own. -One of the things I like best about living in an airpark is watching others fly and being around other aviators.
@Reid Baldwin THANK YOU for taking the time for such a detailed response. Good points. All around. And an honest angle.
Mowing grass isn’t all that expensive. Sure, if you want a paved and lighted runway, then you are talking huge costs for maintenance, but a grass strip can be maintained for less than the cost of most HOAs. $1,000/year will mow a lot of grass.
@@LTVoyager Good perspective!
@@LTVoyager $1000 per year may be a reasonable number if you don't put any value on the labor (just gas and equipment maintenance). If you enjoy doing it, then not accounting for your time is appropriate. Personally, I enjoy mowing my lawn, but mowing a 1500 ft airstrip by myself would get old quickly.
@@reidbaldwin4555 If you don’t enjoy outdoor maintenance, then having your own home in the country with enough room for a runway is simply not for you. I currently mow 3 acres around my home (I have 88 acres total) and it takes about 2 hours with my LX280 John Deere and that is with several buildings, trees, etc to mow around. A 50 x 1500 runway is less than 2 acres so I could more than in a little over an hour. A runway would not need to be mowed more than once a week at most and where I live, we generally only mow our yard 15 or so times a year (Pennsylvania) so I’d spend maybe 20 hours mowing a runway. My mower cost me about $4,500 16 years ago and has accumulated 650 hours to date so the capital cost is currently $7/hour and decreasing with each hour. I expect the mower will last at least 1,000 hours so the capital cost will be under $5/hour. My mower burns about 1 gallon/hour so that is $5 (I burn 100LL in it). Maintenance and repairs have cost less than $50/year or about $1/hour. If I pay myself $30/hour to mow, my total hourly cost is about $42/hour. If I mowed the runway 15 times a year, the cost, including my time, is only $630. I could mow a 50x1500 runway 24 times a year for $1,000 including labor so I think my estimate was well on the conservative side. I could probably hire it done for $1,000 year. Landscapers in my area get about $100/hour to mow and their zero turn mowers will mow 1.7 acres in 30 minutes or less so probably could hire it done for $50 to $60 each time.
This is an amazing topic and something so relevant in my interests recently, and I am sure so many others as well!
Good! Happy to hear this! Very interesting topic for us as well.
Great interview, mate. Good idea with the drone and showing the approach.
Thank You! Yes... finally have a drone in my arsenal. Now just need a phone that supports it! (borrowed for these shots). Who knew... there are only like 10 phones on the PLANET compatible! :-)
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel I’m grateful that I read “arsenal” correctly. Could’ve been an awkward reply. 😆
Let’s get this out there first and foremost. As a general rule “Humans suck!” I live at a rural airpark and actually really enjoy it. Only been here a year tho. As of now we lucked out. That being said if I could snap my fingers and take my house that we love and plop it on a 100 acre wooded lot with a 25’ moat and a 50’ fence I would in a heartbeat.
Electric ⚡️ fence 😂
With machine gun towers.
@@GrizzAxxemann 😄 That makes 3, ladies and gentlemen we have ourselves an air park. 😆
Haha! Well not all humans suck. But in a large group with decisions to be made can complicate things. Happy to hear that you are having a great experience where you are.
@@ashsmitty2244 You all are hilarious! GO FOR IT. Just maybe... don't build it in WACO TX with the machine gun towers! :-)
🔥❤️Thank you. Planning this move ourselves, helped fill in a few blanks for us and gave us a little more info we didn’t consider that we should, Thank you. 😉
Nice! Good that this was timely for you! It is HEAVY on my mind as well as we are planning on doing something in the near future as well. Thanks for stopping by!
It was great to meet you both at ArkanSTOL today!
Love this place. Can’t beat it. Beautiful.
Yes. Yes it is. Having the horses in the back ground helps a little too. :-) Grass roots Aviation.
I’m looking to do the same thing, and this video was very informative. 👍
Thank You! Was hoping it would be for some. I learned a lot as well.
I'm on a small registered air park (0GA9) in middle Georgia with a big grass strip and the HOA is run by a majority, which are airline pilot types. Only thing is, most lots are empty and in a community layout (underground utilities) with pavement and street signs and not readily accessible to the grass strip due to the city ordinances. A number of lots (approx. 1 acre) sit on the grass strip and are available.
Sounds like a nice place! When you see is start posting videos of flying our Zenith next year... reach out and send a message. Would love to stop by. We are based in the Florida Panhandle so it would easily be a day trip.
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel Wilco, Hey if I can get you a visit with NASA in Edwards CA next year, would you like to do it?
I own a hangar at an airpark, and will likely be building a retirement home on the same lot. The airstrip is owned by 2 or 3 people (not me) and we pay an optional $300/yr flying club membership, which helps pay for the lawnmower and fuel. The mowing is done by any of the club members on a volunteer basis. It's a great strip and I always highly recommend people come check it out (CCL2). I also own and live on a 160 acre property and just seeded an airstrip on it. At the moment, I don't have a hangar there so prefer not to keep my plane at home, but I'm quickly learning that it's a LOT of grass to cut. Also, since it's new and few people know about it yet, it hardly gets used, which feels like a shame. That being said, I love both, but am excited to retire at the airpark I mentioned.
Great information😀.
Thank You Joel! Good to see you here!
Run far and fast from any HOA, period. The rules can always change and often do.
Thank You for your input. Lots to consider when thinking of "Living with Your Airplane" for certain.
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Awesome video, and a great subject. If I might add though; I recommend checking Zillow/Redfin as well. Use the property size filter, look for something in an unincorporated area(research “jurisdiction having authority”). Find properties that have the right shape/geography to fit a runway, and hanger/barn/shop. Check the area for any unforeseen controlled airspace. Make sure that the property can be made to fit the needs of the least capable aircraft(on a marginal flying day or heavy) you plan to let land and takeoff from your plot. Don’t forget about wind direction and altitude. And if the property is on the leeward slope of a hill/mountain that is likely to get a downdraft, it could be an issue if not accounted for. Good luck, I hope to see many more properties like this in the years to come!
All good stuff. Thank You for sharing. Yes... long rectangular shaped properties are best use of purchased acreage for sure! I found 40 acres (which doesn't sound like much for a good size airstrip) but it was a skinny/narrow rectangle. Enough for about 4,500' of runway!
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel That's great, Bryan! My wife and I looked at houses for over a year, and almost settled on a place I absolutely hated. No land, and right next to a major highway. They say the Lord works in mysterious ways, so our realtor called us and she found out the seller's realtor and the building inspector had some backroom deal going, and pulled the wool over our eyes about quite a few very expensive things (the well being one of them). When confronted with this in court, my wife walked away with our money back, PLUS a sizable amount of interest. We then stumbled upon the place we live in now. It's only 2.5 acres (HUGE by MA standards), but it has 500' of frontage -plenty to play around with my paramotor, and maybe even fixed wing ultralights in the future. I never dreamed of owning property like this in MA! Keep searching - eventually something will show up that you might have passed over a few times without realizing it was THE ONE! Good luck!
Great interview!
Thank You! :-)
I'm curious which airpark your guest is referring to in Sarasota? The only one in that area I'm aware of is Hidden River and my understating is they let their covenants expire, which resulted is dissolution of the HOA.
Great video! Lots of good info👍
Thank You!
Excellent vid - thanks...!
Thank You! We appreciate your feedback and your support!
solid info thanks
You are very welcome my friend. Thank You for staying hello!
Awesome, very good information.
Thank You! Good to see you stopping by here today!
Awesome video, Ive been looking for this topic. Also, buy an extra microphone for the interviews😅
love this
Thank You!
Any HOA will change eventually even if they tell you it won't. I've lived that several times over the last 25 years.
Thank You for your input. I hope you have had more Positive experiences than Negative of the years despite things changing.
Great information on registering as an airport and no way to any HOA!
"No Way HOA" sounds like a T-Shirt slogan! Hah! Thank You for your feedback and taking the time to watch!
Great video!
Thank You! Good to see you here!
My self and several of my friends up here in MN have each put in our own strips and living the dream!! Lots of work involved, but the benefits sure outweigh having to deal with that person that always thinks they have to be in control.
Freedom option always wins I think. But there does seem to be benefits of each option. Depending on (as typical in real estate ) "Location, Location, Location." Thanks for saying hello!
Great video! Chris, I finally got to see your place! Wow! My Dream also! I'll contact before dropping in with the Highlander. Wes.
It is often "One-way-in" and "One-way-out" there. So I would definitely call ahead and not only ask permission but see what the winds are doing. Kris explained that they just installed a bridge over to the "East 40" in case the wings change and he needed to land on the OTHER hill. hah! He now has a bridge crossing feature for his runway(s)! :-)
"There's always a group that wants to take over" True for any situation involving humans, really !
Great information! Have never seen a video on this topic! I have been wanting to buy property for this !
We should do a LIVE STREAM on this topic one day soon and invite Q/A. That would be a good session I think. Thanks for taking the time to watch!
When I was a teenager, all the runways that I flew off of were grass. I was bumming rides off the local pilots and most pilots that I know love to take people up and show off their planes. They especially like to get the young people involved. Until I was over 50, the fastest airplane that I rode in was a Maule Rocket. I finally rode in an airliner and liked it but it still wasn't as fun as the low and slow flying I was used to. I don't think very many of those planes had a radio, most of them just had basic instruments. Very few had an electric start as well.
Maule was the VERY first Airplane I ever flew! MX-7 to be exact! Thanks for sharing! We did a factory tour last year (and FYI the annual MAULE Fly-In is happening in just 2 weeks!) Watch that video HERE: kzhead.info/sun/ft6Dd9OHaJSNZKs/bejne.html
Thats a dream setup he has there!.. some day!
Agreed! Kris has an awesome place there. I am really hoping we can put something together for us and to have small fly-in events in the coming years! Thanks for stopping by!
I have owned a country place with an airstrip. Hiring a contractor for dirt work can be expensive. You need a tractor anyway. Consider getting a larger one and use a pull scraper to do most of the work. Used scrapers are available. After living in an airport community 25 years, it’s obvious an HOA is a flawed concept. There are problems with them all over the country. Many people don’t consider at the outset they are contractually making a financial commitment in an unknown amount. Fees and special assessments tend to increase to pay for maintenance and insurance. The cost for lawyers - well, the sky is the limit if there is litigation. It’s not a mistake I would make again.
Looks like all is fair in FairPlay, cool video!
Thank You. Yes... and not too far away from the interstate. Or... even restaurants. Kris and I ate just 3min from his home there. Several options. Great little niche place there.
Great vid 👍 nobody’s going to tell this guy what to do lol 👍
Hah! Not anymore I think. :-)
This is one of the most important videos on ACFT ownership that I have seen in the last ten years. One very huge problem with living in a location considered “paradise”, there all very far away from medical help. Broken finger or broken leg, you’re going to be suffering a very long time before you get help.
It really all depends where you are looking to buy. This place... "appears" to be hours away from any life happening. But in reality is located just around the corner from MANY things. Including the interstate. Good points though. Thank You for watching!
If you’re on an airstrip the medical helicopter will have a great place to land 👍🏽….(sorry so late to the conversation but I just saw this…🤷🏻♂️)
Refreshing....there are still neighborly neighbors...at both ends of the spectrum...and to benefit aviation/aviators/terrafirmers/😂
#goals
The only thing this was missing was a quick tour of that plane!
Well.... hold your horses friend! Much more info coming on that Just Aircraft SuperSTOL with the FIRST EVER INSTALLED IN A JUST AIRCRAFT "ROTAX 915 Turbo 140HP Engine!" COMING SOON! :-)
I'm moving in !! 😁
I know right?! I think I would need to build a SuperSTOL first and then ask for a sliver of land on the back end near the horse pasture.
Another problem .... my uncle (and several friends) built a fully registered FAA approved grass strip and had it operational for years. Several new neighbors moved around their land and the attempted to close the runway because of the noise. Cost them a lot of money fighting to keep it open.
THAT is a sad story. More acreage the better to keep good separation for sure. Shame we all have to try and add more and more rules to LIFE. Thanks for watching today!
That's why you don't register your strip. Neighbors, municipalities, the FAA, and others can get a strip shut down. However, no one regulates your yard. It's a field, nothing more. Just because you happen to own a plane that is capable of taking off and landing within that area doesn't mean you are operating an airstrip.
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc The downside of that is what Kris said - a utility can just decide to string up wires on poles across the ends of your strip if it's not registered, possibly making it either unsafe or completely inoperable. Registration means the FAA keeps this from happening, as there are rules against installing approach and departure obstacles once it's official.
@@aussiebloke609 that's why you get enough space to have adequate thresholds. You should have a large margin of safety anyway.
Good real world experiences re HOAs
Agreed!
It is a rare human that can manage Power & Authority
"With great power comes great responsibility." -Spider Man Movie hah! :-)
Anyone can tell me which stol is this one? Thanks
Up here in MA, I always say, "If you enjoy Communism, then you'll love to live in a HOA!" :D I was lucky enough to find a long, pie-shaped 2.5 acre property 18 years ago on my working-man's salary that is nearly perfect for aviation. I say nearly, because there's hills and trees all around - it throws some crazy rotor in the yard here! It's bad enough that I'm not quite comfortable yet in my rookie status to be launching my paramotor out of here. I will some day. I've got 200', but I can only go one heading to shoot a gap in the trees. I can make a few more improvements here to double that length, and will eventually. The more, the merrier. Neighbor was even going to put a windsock on his old TV antenna for me - it's a great neighborhood. The very best as far as MA goes. I struck gold here. On my income, and the extreme expense of housing up here in MA, my choices were extremely limited. God decided this is where I'm supposed to be - how can I argue with that? :)
I like your videos and this is my favorite so far. Very interesting topic. I live 5 minutes from my own hanger and my own airplane today. But it’s costing a fortune and I pay enormous HOA with a rule book so fat it makes the FAR AIM seem like a pamphlet!😮💰
Thank You. I thought it was interesting as well. I love learning about all things Aviation. ESPECIALLY "Living with your Airplane." Yes... T-Hangar rental is typically over $2,000 per year. So considering HOA fees or cost of your own maintenance over time... all cheaper than renting a hangar. And even AIRPORTS have politics.
Europe same thing, every little community over 15-20 people have a king with its own rules.
"King Airpark." :-) Sounds fitting. Where in Europe are you? Good to see you here!
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel I visited Midwest Expo past Saturday. Bushcat caught my interest.
Why does the left wing slat appear to be moving laterally at the tip? Camera artifact?
Actually....they BOTH move. Have you NOT heard of the JUST Aircraft "SuperSTOL?" :-) It has automatic slats that come out when needed. This thing almost doesn't STALL at all. It's a really simply design... yet works really well.
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel This looked like lateral motion while it was sitting behind you, not extend and retract during flight. I am quite familiar with how slats work, but this looked weird with the plane sitting still. Was it really windy enough to move the slats while parked?
@@LTVoyager They're on a hinge, so they move mostly forward, but also a little sideways simultaneously.
✅ Nice video ✅
Thank You!
There are good and bad airparks across the country. Yes, POA can be over reaching but no POA and non aviation people come in and don’t do their part to upkeep the runway.
Agreed. I have seen both (talking to different people over the years). Very much broad envelope of options and personalities.
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel We have a Airpark Lifestyles event coming up at Tailwind Airpark near Canton, TX on Oct 9th.
I've got plenty of quail manure if anyone needs it for their runway project! 🤣🤣🤣
Does that have a smell just as potent? :-)
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel Worse I think! It's amazing how much those little birds produce...
How long is your airstrip?
Kris.... his grass is about 400' or so. Then it gets REALLY hilly. But he has the option to land on either side of that stream (where that horse was grazing).
I found a house for sale outside Plano that has a 1400' strip
Well... with a STOL Aircraft that is no problem. I am property hunting all the time as well just to see what is available and price points.
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel I do this too. Always ends the same, my ears are steaming and usually one or two arguments with the wife about the stupid house on the property. LoL
That port slat may be possessed 1:55
Just Aircraft SuperSTOL have automatically deployed slats. They are quite proud of that too! :-)
i bought a ranch to just to be able to have my plane at my house. i would never ever ever ever do a airpark too many rules. to many people who are experts on everything. i like to be left alone. one i did look at had this rotatinf rule that everyone had to have a bbq for the other residents lol i went huh? and the hoa had to have a key to your hanger. i left. then came home found a ranch that was in the middle of no where made my runway built a hanger and have the wrong color of flowers lol airparks are mostly run by wanna be dictators i can go into my hanger anytime i want. and leave my lights on at night if i want
Why would anyone buy property in a place, pay their own money for it, just to have rules in the first place on what they can do on it. I am against the idea of an HOA.
Good video. Too many a-holes out there that want to screw up a good thing.
When I heard HOA I literally quit watching the video. 🤪
Haha. REALLY? There is so much real world experience shared here in this video. Have you tried a Flying Community yet? What is your experience?
@@ExperimentalAircraftChannel 😂 Brian I am going to finish watching the video I'm very interested in that stuff. At the time I heard HOA it was a good stopping point for me had to go to work anyway. I'm going to watch the rest of it right now.
HOA, NO freaking way in Hello. I have my own HOA, and it's run by myself and wife. Way, Way too many Karens these days. I don't deal with nosey control freaks.
Why terrible. What is to be expected with "Taking things over"?
Too many opinions in one place I guess.
thats fun