Mossbag's Hollow Knight Lore Reaction - Watching "The Complete Lore of Hollow Knight"
Hello everyone and welcome to a video that you all have requested for a very long time! I hope you enjoy our reaction to Mossbag's humongous lore video, The (Mostly) Complete Lore of Hollow Knight"!! It's our first time seeing all of this lore in one place, and I can't wait to see how our theories line up with what the community standard. Let's watch and see what happens!
MOSSBAG'S VIDEO - • The (Mostly) Complete ...
Let's connect! So we can get to know each other better!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUBSCRIBE To Stay Connected ► bit.ly/1RKu53c
Subscribe To GAMEFACE ► bit.ly/1pqyop8
TWITCH ► bit.ly/1XQMXNZ
TWITTER ► bit.ly/1SgBiqB
PATREON ► bit.ly/213JOwf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Character Art by CaseyMcDang ► bit.ly/3bajc9N
BLG's Endslate Music by, Starship Amazing!! ► bit.ly/20YIgCO
Killing the Radiance was never considered an option because it wasn't a known possibility in the first place. You're forgetting one essential part needed to access the Radiance in her own domain: the Dream Nail. This is an item that was kept by the moth tribe, in hopes of one day entrusting it to their prophesied Wielder. The Pale King likely didn't even know that it existed. Without it, confronting the Radiance directly would've been impossible. You need that much just to _fight_ her, mind - in order to actually _kill_ her, there's another aspect you're forgetting. The Knight doesn't fight the Radiance as a normal Vessel. Even if you fight the Hollow Knight while you have a fully awakened Dream Nail, you won't be able to face the Radiance in battle unless you have also obtained the second essential part: the Void Heart. It's more than just a charm - it symbolises a Vessel who has done what no one managed to do before: unify the Void - a wild and unknowable hive mind - under one singular will. In order to kill the Radiance, the Knight calls upon the Void to rise up in the dream world and devour her. Without this power, it probably would've been able to weaken and seal her at best, but actually killing her likely wouldn't have been an option at all. Before the Knight, no one was able to properly wield the Dream Nail. No one was able to control the Void in its entirety. No one was able to kill the Radiance, or even considered this option a possibility. The reason why the Pale King and the Hollow Knight didn't simply kill her was because they couldn't. It's that simple. It was quite literally beyond their capabilities. The Knight, on the other hand, accomplished what even other gods were never able to do - and that is why the Knight, despite its small size, is the one who can ascend and become a god of gods, the Shade Lord.
also because radiance does not have a physical form, so there is no way to access her with the dream nail without a middle man, in this case, either the godseekers or the hollow knight that contains her. i
Another thing, it wasn’t known if higher beings were killable.
Bill* The shade lord isnt a good name (Sorry I had to make that joke)
Thank you for your Ted talk
@@awwastor oof, can they? i mean, the Pale King should technically be dead.... right?
23:15 - that "dead little girl" is named Joni the Heretic, so... yeah.
And she was also sealed into the Abyss as well so…
@@madtheline2510 Uh, no? She was in the Howling Cliffs.
@@Kayta-Linda Ah, yeah sorry I mistook it for the place you need all those lifeblood hearts to enter in the Abyss
@@madtheline2510 that's where the beast that originates life blood in the first place comes from, opening its eyes to stare into you as you grasp the charm that contains its power
The dead little girl surrounded by Lifeblood is Joni. The charm you get from her names her 'the kindly heretic', it is implied that she used Lifeblood to cure other bugs even though it was forbidden. One of the charms you get from Salubra also says that drinking the lifeblood was taboo, so using it would certainly make you some kind of deviant in that society. Why was it taboo I don't know, since those who used it were named 'heretics' it's probably because the Pale King felt threatened by the lifeblood somehow.
I do not think so, there was no evidence that the king was against Lifeblood but there is also no evidence that the Pale King liked Lifeblood.
I might be a little late here, but maybe it's heresy because you get lifeblood from cocoons? You know, liquified babies?
@@classink4068 did you get that from that Hollow Knight animation? lol
@@burningshadowxd7633 I see you know your stuff too.
@@classink4068 yee haha
With regards to the idea that Hallownest grants bugs higher intelligence, there is a lore tabblet that says that those who leave the kingdom must relinquish the great mind that the kingdom grants them. Its not just the comic that sugests this, rather the comic backs up what the lore tablets tell us. Edit: The Poem at the begining of the game kind of reinforces this idea as well. "...For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met, Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed..."
yes exactly this! @BornLosersGaming
I think the confusion comes from people misunderstanding how intelligence works in the world of Hollow Knight. Basically, not all bugs get their intelligence from higher beings, some species are just born that way. Look no further than the mantises, they were living in Hallownest long before the King's arrival and they didn't worship any god at all, and they still were an intelligent tribe. What the king did was to grant a mind to the savage bugs roaming the land, and made it so any other mindless bug that stumbled into Hallownest would gain intelligence as well. And of course since this higher thought was granted by the King you would lose said intelligence if you decided to leave the kingdom. The only example of a Hallownest citizen leaving and keeping his intelligence is Quirrel, who probably only kept his mind because of Monomon's mask, and he still lost his memories of Hallownest just like ghost. Even the Godseekers, who were literally forsaken by their former gods kept their minds intact, since they were already intelligent beings.
They also say Dirtmouth is outside Hallownest, for some reason? Also, the Pale King's power sticks around after his death, according to the Godseekers. That explains why the few remaining still retain their inteligence.
Not just this, but Quirrels memory loss is also due to him leaving Hallownest into the wastes, and Hornet refers to the knight's strength as "born of 2 voids", the second one being the void of thought that exists in the wastes where bugs are savage
“Intelegance”
The dung defenders dream dialogue says "so there were others" implying that he only knew of the existence of the hollow knight and no other vessels
This would make sense since the dung defender is essentially locked in the waterways and city of tears. The other vessels that broke free had not gotten in there yet
I actually thought this line referred to survivors of the infection
@@volnartheunforgiving3952 could be, though I personally doubt it
Personally, I don't think its implied that pre- Hallownest bugs were 'stupid', but that they were savage. Their minds were like that of beasts and animals, which you can argue have some sort of intelligence in their own right, but not the rationality and higher thought required to make a complex civilization. That's the way the Radiance preferred it and why she was enraged by the Pale King granting her subjects a mind that they could think, speak, write.
I'm pretty sure the Radiance was just pissed at her children forgetting about her, which is actually pretty serious, since she is a dreamborn higher being and will essentially phase out of existence if no one cares about her (same reason why the Grimm Troupe exists). The moths had a culture when they worshipped the Radiance, so it's unlikely their goddess was against them being developed - she was just against them being traitors.
@@RodrigoPereira-ws8ok True, revenge against the crimes of the Moth Tribe was for sure the Radiance’ main motivation. I think it’s interesting that her infection reverted all simple bugs back to their original design, turning them animalistic once again. The fact her retribution took this form- instead of just punishing the Moth Tribe who, largely, no longer worshipped her- was intentional. She did consider her traitors just that, but it seemed she also had a specific hatred for the rational, higher mind the simple bugs of Hallownest were granted by this ‘new light’ her people forsook her for. Just my own theory though
@@lulu_749 I could see that, especially during the second outbreak of infection, where she went full genocide mode. It is indeed interesting how the moth tribe wasn't the primary target of the infection. Maybe their ability to shape dreams granted them some immunity? Maybe the Radiance envied how everyone flocked to worship the Pale King? Maybe she tought of the moths less as traitors, and moreso as victims? It's also worth noting that the weakening of the Radiance was likely what caused the moths to die out, since it's noted that as Unn's power waned, so did the leaves of the mosskin wilt.
@@RodrigoPereira-ws8ok I think it is implied that the moth tribe faded out due to not having a higher being sustaining them. They come from the higher being closest to dreams (moths often delving and dwelling there) and when the seer dies she turns into dream essence. Without the Pale King and the Radiance being pissed at those who turned their back on her, its safe to say the seer was a bit special for the Radiance to not get rid of her. Given that the seer still exists, I believe she was the last worshiper keeping the Radiance alive before faded completely or went genocidal. Once many people were thinking about the Radiance, the Seer was no longer needed to sustain its existence and the Seer could not do anything about the actions her god took. She regrets holding on to the past, tradition, and the Radiance when she sees the outcome from keeping their old god alive, which is why she was persisting. She wanted to right her wrongs, her tribes wrongs, by helping the ghost/player overcome the Radiance.
Foresight ≠ Omnipitence I once read a fanfic with the Pale King where he described his foresight as 100 people giving him advice; if 90 of them say the road ahead is dangerous, 9 say it's safe, and 1 says there's a talking mushroom ahead, he's keen to believe the road will be dangerous. None of this means the future is set in stone.
I think you meant to say Omniscience
@@lasagna3289 thanks
I think I know what story you're talking about. It's one of my favorites. Was taken aback how good it was, I really wasn't expecting anything like it from a video game fanfiction
Sauce plz
Ah yes, of course the fanfic is canon
So, he doesn't show the source of everything he says because of time restraints but he has multiple videos talking about specific things wich you can watch in your own if you want to know why he says some things. Don't worry about reactions even tho i would watch it xD
I personally suggest to continue watching mossbag's videos, simply because of how informative and interesting they can be. It doesn't have to be in front of a camera however. Choosing to watch them in your own time is something I am perfectly fine with too. All I simply advocate for is for you to view them in whatever way you both are most comfortable with. Also quick little and not so serious edit: it's mossbag, not Mossbag. Can't believe y'all got that wrong. smh my head...
Shaking my head my head
My personal theory is that when the Pale King chose a vessel to become the Hollow Knight, he tested whether or not they were "hollow" by seeing if they tried to help the next vessel get up from the ledge after that last jump, so the Hollow Knight was chosen because they didn't help you during the events shown in the memory scene.
I never considered that, interesting
Thats a good thought, it's a thing we should look into more and discuss.
Personally I think that the pale king was seeing which vessel made it to the top first and he would choose them
actually 5-head
What if a vessel didn't help the next vessel, but expressed a form of sadness? Would they fall down, too?
"What's missing?" - "Silksong" Why do you hurt me so?
There’s more evidence of the Pale King giving bugs a mind than just Boon and Tuk, that was just an example.
FYI just wanted to say that dirtmouth is a part of hallownest, since the lore tablet saying that beyond the door lies hallownest is before dirtmouth, that's what I think at least. Also dung defender is what he's called, like when his title pops up when you fight him. Good video though!
I like to imagine the the guardian for Herrah was the entirety of Deepnest. It would make sense, since you have to travel through most of Deepnest to get to her, and Deepnest is fucking dangerous as hell, with spike pits and a legion of spiders. Either that, or it was Nosk, and he just went awol.
It’s possible. There are hints to suggest that Nosk became more aggressive and manipulative once he became infected so it could be possible that when he got infected, he left the nest to hide earlier in Deepnest so he’d get more prey
I believe the giant spider from the Hollow Knight trailer still exists in some way considering the eight puppet "Friends", the roar after the Knight is captured, and the webbing it is captured in.
I will say, I think saying that the bugs were "dumb" beforehand is an over exaggeration. Through societies like the one of the Mantises its clear that they were not aimlessly walking around, unable to communicate, etc. But I do think its heavily implied and makes a lot of sense that the existance of the Pale King did allow the more common bugs to form some kind of intelligence and more specifically a will. This idea is even more supported by the fact that bugs leaving Hollownest seem to lose their memories and the bugs that end up infected are "reverted to basic instincts" (aka dont partake in society and kill other bugs, predator/pray style).
kinmda late but i think the losing of memories and the kingdom giving them mind is also because of how treacherous the wastes of the outer world are, having to survive from pure instinct seems to wipe bugs memories while the safety of the kingdom even at its dilapidated state gives bugs the chance to reflect on themselves and make choices that are fuelled by their will rather than their instinct to survive
You have any idea how many times people asked Team Cherry for those unanswered questions and the answer they gave was literally a "We don't know"?
17:45 we know that Dung defender was unaware of the other vessels because of his dream nail dialog after you fight him. "...So there were others..." Its possible they suspected that there were other vessles then the one the king chose, but even the 5 great knights did not know the full truth.
Leaving the kingdom beyond the howling cliffs means relinquishing the mind, the kingdom includes Dirtmouth. What that means as far as intelligence is unknown but to base instincts is a bug reduced. Charm Lady Salubra mentions consuming lifeblood is taboo and the grave Joni is a 'Kindly Heretic' Abridged lore: dumb bugs fly towards sunlight, dumb bugs fly towards street lamp after sunset, sun gets mad and then everything dies.
Back when the king was around no one knew of a "dreamnail" only the moths knew from that weird dream thing but giving the king that nail would go against this legend that they thought of. Thus the king had no direct access to the radience to kill it... also the whole full control over the void thing is also true
1) How dare you not like Bill. 2) There are several bits of text suggesting that Hallownest actually gives bugs mind. So we’re pretty sure it was literal. 3) Yes, you need Void Heart to access the Pantheon of Hallownest. 4) Is there anyone else who wants Embrace The Void to be the true ending? It’s the only one where the Hollow Knight is actually alive and free and maybe able to start a life! I’d sacrifice ghost for that!
lo sacrificing someone who ended the stasis to someone who just ghosted ghost during the birthplace scene? idk why the fandom even cared so much about hk since there is nothing to say how his personality or even deeds are before being sealed, felt like people just like him for the white aesthetic. his fate is tragic sure but the only thing shown how he act is leaving ghost hanging like he didnt want to share his father or something (before swooping in also during the dream no more ed after ghost busted into dream realm), do agree being embrace the void being the true ed but just because if bill will finally consume everything and seeing if there is a plan behind returning the void lord shade into its prime form presumably help by the mysterious masters that (curiously mention to have affliction to the void) who sent jiji and steel soul jinn to help the knight. since the knight did wander beyond hallownest, did he meet the masters? is ghost some part of the void control by the shade lord? since the vessels are being hollow out by the void, could the void have gain access to the physical shell so it can walk around places easily and return to its true form while at the same time destroying radiance since radiance herself says the void entity is her ancient enemy (kill 2 birds with 1 stone situations). all in all, it seems the pk did made more than 1 ancient enemy but also stirring up things that the radiance have put down in the past considering the ancient caste seems to die out except there is a theory that the snail shamans is somehow being the remnants of it with affliction with the void and manipulating soul plus the masters mention by jiji & jinn. felt like pk is caught up between a beef between 2 ancient beings...
@@sugartoothYTthats false. The hollow knight was NOT lacking in thought or emotion. Thats the whole point of the story.
@@sugartoothYTif the hollow knight was lacking in thought or emotion, none of this game would have happened. At all. Because the only reason the infection escaped is because the hollow knight *wasnt* lacking in emotion. It wasnt truly hollow. It has emotions, it has thoughts and free will
46:05 Honestly I have my own theory on this, and that’s that maybe there were so many vessels made because the void kills its hosts. I mean think about all the bugs we’ve seen that, when exposed to void, get killed by it as they become one with the void. The vessels were probably similar. When the void corrupted the eggs, I’ll bet most of the little guys immediately died, and others that weren’t perfectly meshed with the void died on the ascent. The reason the Hollow Knight was chosen was actually because not only did it make it to the top, but it also was not destroyed by the void inside it. Our character, Ghost, is actually the same. Ghost was also able to perfectly fuse with void, but just didn’t get out in time for the king to choose them.
Definetly something people tend to forget about. Ghost can swim in void, but regular bugs (like vessels before being born) would eventually die from the exposure.
I mean, it IS said in game that when the pale king's children came in contact with void their shells were hollowed out and filled with void. So yes they do die, but they are then reborn however its the loose lakes of void the rejects the vessel not the void within the vessel itself. I'm sure that The hollow knight, and their siblings all could have formed similar bonds with the void like Ghost did (pure vessel is a great example of this). Like the white lady said; she awaited one of the vessels to claim the white fragment she held. Implying that it could have been any other sibling like ghost that could have been on the same journey to attain void heart and stop the radiance. Most were met with unfortunate fates whether they fell, were rejected by PK himself or couldn't brave the dangers of hollownest.
@@Roy_In_A_Safe_Space We are talking about a different kind of death. It's pure speculation, but I'd imagine vessels whose eggs were completely submerged in void would probably be overwhelmed by it and join ithe void as a shade, rejecting their shells even before being born, technically ending up as still births, since once the egg hatches all you get is an unliving corpse. Vessels are whack.
51:10 I think I might have my own guess as to why they didn’t just kill it, and I don’t think he didn’t look down on the vessels. And it can be pointed back to a major game mechanic. They didn’t have the dream nail. That’s the only way you can get to the radiance is you have to have the dream nail. Which was hidden in the dream realm itself. So they would have to know about this nail, and be able to get it without getting trapped in that realm. As much as the moths worshiped the king, the nail was for this chosen one they dreamt about. So the king likely wouldn’t have been able to get his hands on it. Thus, vessel cages it is. This is all I can really think of as to why. But it could also just be one of those “there wouldn’t be a game if they just destroyed the radiance in the beginning” kind of thing. Not to sure.
This is the correct answer.
Also you need void heart
If you dreamnail the radiance, one of its dialogue options is “ancient enemy,” likely referring to the void. The reason the vessels and the void as a whole cared about the radiance might have been because the two were at odds with each other even before the pale king came to Hallownest. Also, team cherry themselves has gone on record saying that they don’t know how the vessels got out of the abyss, so it’s a mystery that even the devs don’t know the answer to.
Thanks for this reaction. One thing to maybe consider is, charms are made from dying wishes: so to create the Kings Soul and later the Void Heart, it may have been necessary for the Pale King to 1st die. That may have been his final last resort.
51:20 because the only reason you were able to fight the radiance is because you had the dream nail and the void heart. the pale king was able to seal the radiance inside the hollow knight somehow though
I've been waiting for this for months 18:48 Read the Lore tablet in the Throne Room 22:57 Read Joni's Blessing charm description 41:48 Listen to the White Lady while carrying Adult Grimmchild 51:19 Not everyone is blessed with a Nail capable of cutting the veil betweem world and dream 1:32:57 It isn't clear whether Nosk's head draws for emotions on the target or just memories. Ghost could still be Hollow and remember Hornet, which could be accessed by Nosk. 1:46:39 Yes. You need Voidheart to start the 5th Pantheon. (I'm doing this as I watch) Made it to the end, great reaction! I feel like it's very difficult to make reactions to such long videos, you guys are great at this!
If Nosk just took faces from memories, why didn’t they look like Hornet in the first fight? If it took the face of loved ones, like “pluck at the strings in your heart”, from the Hunter’s journal entry, suggests, then by the time you fight P5 you’ve bonded with hornet
@@AshenDust_ My theory is that Nosk accesses your mind and chooses a face, instead of it manifesting for you innatelly. After failing to capture you using your face, he accessed your mind and saw Hornet, not because of any enotional attachments, simply because she's important and you see her a lot of times, so she's very present in the Knight's memory. That's my point of view.
@@Jay-nh6um but Nosk did succeed at luring in the Knight, which is what the disguise is for, and then got killed, but the disguise wasn’t the problem.
@@AshenDust_ Then again, quote from the White Lady: "I implore you, usurp the Vessel. Its supposed strength was ill-judged. It was tarnished by an idea instilled. But you. You are free of such blemishes. You could contain that thing inside." You see where I go with this?
@@Jay-nh6um yea but she’s probably wrong and blind and stupid. The Knight panics whenever they fall into Acid without Isma’s Tear, which requires emotion, and the Voidheart explicitly states that the Knight has a will. I think we should trust item descriptions, which are always right, more than characters, which can be wrong.
The infection goes into the broken vessel's body AFTER it was dead, on screen. It was probably just another vessel
I definitely recommend watching mossbag's other lore videos. A lot of them expand on the various points made in this video, (including the parts you didn't fully agree with) and also get into topics not even mentioned in this one, such as Mr. Mushroom, the Mask Maker, or the weird lore tablets in the Teacher's Archives. They're also just generally good videos on their own. I'm normally not too interested in reaction videos, but I am somewhat invested in seeing you learn about Hollow Knight lore, so I'd like to see your reactions to at least some of them, as long as they're not too frequent. It would be a bit much if you only upload reaction videos for a while. I also recommend Ccmaci's Hollow Knight lore videos (he hasn't made as many of them as mossbag, but they talk about different topics that mossbag hasn't covered). If you want to, of course.
1:18:00 - If I remember correctly, in the game the Dung Defender does mention - if you talk to him after the fight but before acquiring Isma's Tear - that he knew of the King's plan and thought it was cruel. Which imo makes sense since an honorable knight as Ogrim would maybe find the king's plan a bit too much but still followed with his duties
I think he means he knew the king would seal the hollow knight forever in the black egg, not that he knew about the other vessels and the baby hole
You guys thought the Vessel's were'nt undead unborn children? This is Team Cherry we're talking about!
Even though mossbags video was over an 1 hour long , there's still so much lore that he missed out on in the video . If he put every single bit of lore and information in one video , the video would be about a 1000 hours long EDIT: You should edit the title and put mostly in it
Something I've been thinking about is, there are many vessels scattered around the map, so maybe they were all on the same quest as Ghost. The vessels were probably created with the sole purpose of containing the light, and so when the Hollow Knight cracked and started seeping out infection, the vessels were woken up by their objective one by one. Some, like the Broken Vessel, got further than others, but every time one met their demise, another rose, instilled by purpose. In the Dream No More ending, the game ends with showing the shades in the Abyss shrinking back into the ground, which I think means that, with their objective completed they have no more purpose, and become part of the void once more.
And the reason the vessels could escape is because the void's objective allowed them to bypass the door. My guess is that the door is sealed from the outside by the king's brand, but the inside is controlled by the Abyss itself. Or maybe there's another door somewhere that wasn't sealed by the king idk
Also, I believe that because the vessels, and hornet for that matter, are half pale king(and by extent, half wyrm), they were imbued with a sort of weaker foresight, allowing the vessels to understand that another vessel would be needed, and would explain why hornet knew to protect the king's brand from weaker vessels specifically, as well as how she knew, when Ghost got the void heart, that it would be able to bring an end to the radiance. Because the vessels were born of both void and wyrm, their minds were scattered but unified to some degree because of that foresight that the radiance would need to be contained/destroyed by one of them.
@@J-Coops_ I agree that the vessels are called by something to try and break the seals. Some of the dreamers dialogue backs this up (Something like “What spurs its climb out of the darkness. A call from the vessel, or that captive light?”) There’s reason to believe there’s a secret passage from the abyss to deepnest, even though it isn’t accessible in game. Due to the area of the sharp shadow charm and the large amount of vessels in Nosk’s lair which is around that same area.
In regards to the part about the Pale King granting intelligence, I think it only refers specifically to the bugs descended from simple cave bugs (that were more animalistic and instinctive in nature than what we see now) that were in areas like the crossroads and the cavern that now houses the city. These bugs then had children that still relied on the king for a mind. Note that this wouldn't include any of the other races that were living in Hallownest that were implied to have a mind (Mosskin, Mantises, Residents of Deepnest, etc) since they apparently didn't need the king for this. This would also explain why bugs from other places across the Wasteland are thinking just fine, they weren't descended from the Hallownest bugs. Thoughts? Edit1: regarding why the King may have chosen to settle in Hallownest, I think it's literally just something that wyrms were able and wanted to do, if there was such a thing as a wyrm culture back when they were more common. Wyrms seemed to like becoming leaders to lower beings. Mr Mushroom implies that this happened a lot before they all went extinct. Edit2: The part about Lifeblood being frowned upon in Hallownest is implied by Joni's title as 'heretic' on her charm and the description for the lifeblood heart charm that Salubra gives. She mentions that it's taboo. Extrapolating from this it could be interpreted that there is a lifeblood higher being that the Pale King didn't want his subjects finding out about/worshipping, since in the sequence in the lifeblood place in the Abyss and the lifeblood room in Godhome there are blue dreamcatcher particles. Plus in the background in both cases if you look hard enough you see the many eyes of a very large creature blinking. The sprite for this creature doesn't show anything besides the eyes, but it's possible it's the deity of Lifeblood that Joni and other followers may have worshipped. Edit3: As for how Ghost/the Knight got out of Hallownest and entered the wastes, it's strongly suggested by the number of vessel corpses in Nosk's lair that there's probably another way out of the Abyss probably on the other side of the deep well maybe a little higher up than the entrance from the Ancient Basin. This entrance probably leads into a very deep part of Deepnest. One can only assume that Ghost is the only known vessel to have gotten extraordinarily lucky and survive the perils of the dying kingdom and leave for the slightly less dangerous wastes. None others that we know of survived within or outside the kingdom.
I can confirm, you do need void heart to enter pantheon 5. It's locked with a black orb otherwise. My theory on why PK didn't kill the Radiance - one of the lore tablets says something along the lines that light can't kill light, so he physically couldn't, which is why he turned to void, to darkness. The reason Hollow can't kill Radiance would be the same reason Ghost can't kill Radiance without the void heart. An individual vessel isn't strong enough. It takes all of the vessels, the void united, to do it, and Hollow had not united the void. PK thought the vessels had no will, so in his mind, it would have been impossible for them to unite under one cause. Side theory - The reason it might not even have crossed his mind that the void could be united is maybe, before the vessels were thrown down there, there really wasn't anything to unite in the first place. Maybe the hatchlings that were absorbed by the void gave it many wills, as many as there are vessels. I'm really glad you put off watching the mossbag video as long as you did, honestly. The game is so open to interpretation and having someone else's thoughts on the lore in your head first before you can experience it is inevitably going to influence your interpretation of it. My favorite thing is seeing how people interpret the lore of this game and coming up with their own theories, and then the community sharing those theories with each other. It's fun to compare thoughts and comment on theories afterwards, and it was fun to hear your thoughts on the game throughout the journey. Thank you for your content.
the lifeblood thing is solely from passing comments from Salubra as well as Joni's Blessing and someone in Godhome (?). By the way, the Mantis Lords have a stash of Lifeblood in the top left corner of their arena. apparently they know how to party
I think people enjoying seeing reactions to Mossbag’s video because so few people who play this game are able or willing to figure out the breadth of the lore. It really is a testament to you two that you spent such time and thought on this game that you were able to already understand most of the video and even make points that challenge some of it. It’s been amazing to watch!
I really appreciate you pausing the video when you want to discuss/point out things. How else would we hear what your thoughts are? I think the Hollow Knight being "tarnished by an idea instilled" is because it probably was told over and over again what it's purpose was. I'd like to see more reactions. Great video, as always!
No it’s because the memory at the end of the path of pain
@@Kiiwii-birb why not both. When we dream nail Pure Vessel. It says: "Do not think.." "Do not speak.." "Do not hope.." "Do not.." This means that the Hollow Knight knew it wasn't hollow enough and goes along with the Pale King's plan. Hollow Knight wanted to save Hallownest and everything within with ironically led to the downfall of Hallownest..
You guys should definitely check out mossbag's other lore videos, they would be much more suitable for your level of knowledge. This video is more like a summary for people like me who played the game completely blind and didn't pay much attention to the lore initially, therefore missing a lot of details. Mossbag has a playlist with 17 other hollow knight lore videos besides this one, of which I recommend 5 in particular, the ones about the grimme troupe, mister mushroom, monomon's lore tablets, the ancient civilization, and the vitruvean grub. All of them are good though. Edit: Turns out the mister mushroom video isn't in that playlist
I don't think he said it. But one of the life blood charms, Joni's Blessing has the description "blessed by Joni, the kindly heretic."
We actually meet joni when we collect the charm
@@IA-hh7sn yep! I think it's the only charm we meet the spirit linked to it?
@@evan_sunprince I mean, I think you could make a case for some others. Dream shield seems connected to markoth, and hiveblood might be connected to Vespa.
@@evan_sunprince nah, vespa's spirit gives you hiveblood in person
@@IA-hh7sn Actually not, Hiveblood can be found in the chamber below where you fight the Hive knight, and later can meet (ghost) Vespa.
To answer your question The pc gets out of deepnest from another exit, if you'll recall in deepnest there's a section below the tram station where abyss void seeps out blocked by a shadow barrier, I believe it's where you get sharp shadow charm ,its existence proves theres at least one exit out of the abyss possibly more
51:09 I think the Pure Vessel doesn't have the Void Heart charm to unify the void against Radiance to kill it. Thus, the Pure Vessel can only seal the Radiance.
Haha! I love yall. Glad yall get to have the requests stop so Casey's sanity can no longer diminish. ❤
In my opinion, the HK was most likely chosen because he was physically the best candidate. The idea that the Hollow Knight was more hollow than everyone else is kinda weird, what determines that a vessel is "hollow"? The HK was given training in how to wield a nail and to defend itself, likely to defend against things trying to set the Radiance free. So it's possible that the Pale King made so many vessels to get a vessel that was excessively strong AND 'perfectly hollow'. it's also possible that the Hollow Knight was the one knocking other vessels down instead of the Pale King, this would make it clear who was physically the greatest out of those who made it to the top first.
I would love to see you guys react to more mossbag videos! I played the entire game blind, much like you, and the mossbag videos *really* helped me make sense of the lore and put it all together.
There are alot of different proofs to why the pale kind literally makes people smarter but it would take way too long to explain every single argument, if your not 100% sure you can trust what mossbag says you can always check the wiki where all the information is based on solid proof and way less speculation so your sure you can trust that.
48:55 I like to think Ghost among others went through some kinda tunnel in one the Abyss Shriek room mouths
Hollow Knight, a cautionary tale of why insects shouldn’t drink Sunny D
You should definitely watch some of the other mossbag lore videos for a more in depth look into some of your questions. Great video btw
I've seen all of mossbags videos and the other videos do go into a lot more detail in the lore about certain things so i do think its good to watch them. Love your vids, you guys are great
I love hearing y’all’s speculation on the lore it’s always interesting to hear how everyone interprets it. There so much that’s left open in the game and I think that’s one reason the lore is so fun to talk about.
The only way you fight the radiance is by using the dream nail. And I highly doubt that anyone but the moths new how to use that until the seer teaches the player.
Something I like to think is that the Pale King actually foresaw that eventually one of the vessels would escape and kill the radiance, I think that's why he made the gigantic obstacle course of death and locked the palace under a shield - in order to ensure the vessel was strong enough when it'd face the Radiance, so that it wouldn't die and the Dream Nail wouldn't be lost.
*_"Im not sure if it meant it quite so literally. Like, just climbing to the top was all that was required"_* (when talking about why the hollowknight was chosen.) By the point you reach the memory, you likely have the monarch wings, the mantis claw or some tool to make the climbing easier. The vesels didn't had any tools to give themselves that luxury. The climbing was a whole trial. Without the monarch wings or mantis claw, the route to climb up is way harder than the path of pain or any other platforming. *_But it is possible._* The hollow knight was chosen because they managed to climb out, ignoring their cries of their siblings, showed no emotion whatsoever and finally performing a practically impossible task.
My theory is that the Pale King saw his kingdom in ruins in the future through his foresight, meaning that no matter what that's what would happen if time passed, meaning trying to fight the Radiance would be useless. However, if he could use the void to trap the Radiance, that wouldn't invalidate the prophecy, since it could still technically happen, but it would never actually happen. However, by the time of the game Hallownest is already in ruins, meaning that anything could happen.
I enjoyed this reaction A LOT! Mossbag goes more in-depth for a lot of different lore subjects in other videos, like the revised version of the Grimm Troupe video for instance or the maskmaker speculation video! I hope if you have a look around his channel you'll find another interesting thing to watch
Seeing more mossbag video reactions would be cool! I really enjoyed the extra speculation you added. When reacting to short videos, I think it's better to watch it straight through and then rewatch while pausing for whatever, but for longer videos, especially ones this long, pause as much as you need!
Thanks for doing this! I would love to see more, and i think you should watch which ever video covers the lore your most curious about next.
My understanding of the foresight was just that. Foresight. The Pale King could see the future, but there is no way to change that. Everything eventually ends. You can prolong that, but for how long? Also regarding the increased intellect theory; it could be that there are bugs outside of hallownest with higher thought already but for those who don't, the kingdom will grant that ability.
I thought that the reason the pale king thought he'd found a hollow being is because the vessels would have to use their siblings to climb therefore leaving them behind, they would as well see many of their siblings falling off or dying in front of others. If you'd survived all of that trauma and still persevered there would be have to be something "hollow" about you.
Love the vid and all the theorizing, thanks for reacting :) Another couple lore videos that I love are 8-Bit Music Theory's 3-part series on HK, he breaks down the soundtracks and finds a lot of patterns which have some neat lore implications. Would highly recommend if you're into music theory, but a reaction isn't super necessary, just some neat extra content. Also 1:46:38, "Do you need void heart to be able to get this ending?" Yes, but not for the reason of defeating bosses. The unlock prerequisite to PoH is beating the first 4, which don't require battling Radiance, HK, or even the dream bosses. BUT according to the wiki you do need void heart in order to 'ascend'
Ogrim, the Dung Defender, isolated himself to the Royal Waterways, hence why he may not have seen Vessels escaping afterwards. There weren't many vessel corpses to begin with, though... some of the masks/heads just look similar, since they're all technically still bug shells, just with some having been hollowed with Void. When dream nailing him, he remarks "...so there were others...", so we know that he wasn't aware of others beyond The Hollow Knight. PK & WL felt shame over their actions, so it makes sense that they wouldn't have wanted to make the sheer mass of Vessels known publicly. They would only prominently showcase the "chosen Pure Vessel," since it would be the only important one. The reason why they probably used PK's children as vessels instead of average armour, such as the Kingsmolds and Wingsmolds, was because he was a Pale Being. It's possible that their shell was somehow more capable, such as being able to use Soul easier, or was stronger / more "holy." This may have held a greater resistance to the radiance, and possibly just a general strength boost as compared to just... metal.
Omg thank you . I wanted to watch but I feel like it would be so long . But now with you two talking over it it’s bareable. Thank you ! Bapanadaaa
I would love to see your thoughts on some other mossbag videos but that's completely up to you, can't wait to see you speedrun the game
1:17:06 maybe because the vessels only escaped after ogrim got depressed and started living in the royal waterways. Or maybe he just never went to those places
The thing with the pale king just killing the Radiance, is that they had no way of entering the dream realm where the Radiance resided. The dream nail didn’t exist (or just they didn’t know of it’s existence).
I've always assumed that the dream nail did exist, but it was a relic created/guarded by the moth tribe that they hid away in the dream realm, so no one but them actually knew about it. The Pale king might have been able to find out, but its possible that he never asked or thought to focus his foresight on the resting grounds.
The pale king could enter the dream realm, he even put his whole palace in it. I think the problem was not access to the radiance, but the inability to kill it
Well for the intelligence thing, I think it's been a question for the theorists of "Well why would the bugs need to be intelligent to survive?" There's a lot of descriptive dialogue, like from lore tablets or samples from the Hunter, that lends to the idea that wild bugs don't need to worry about the state of the world, that they are more primal and focus on survival like a regular animal, whilst the Pale King used his power to improve the minds of his subjects so they would be cognitively capable of worshipping him. It's kind of like having the idea of one thing lends to the idea of another. Like, "Oh, if the Pale King granted his bugs something called higher thought, and all these entries and dialogue lines suggest that things were drastically different before, then what's the opposite of higher thought?.." At least, I assume that's the thought process going on here
they never thought of killing the radiance because they physically couldnt. the only reason the knight was able to kill the radiance was because it had the dream nail and the void heart. the void heart allowed the knight to unify the void and consume the radiance, while the dreamnail allowed it to access its realm.
Yeah, this video is sorta a compilation of the general consensus of Hollow Knight lore. A lot of things are glossed over for time or left ambiguous because no consensus has been met. mossbag's other videos (and other Hollow Knight theory videos) go much more in-depth with these ideas, presenting the evidence both for and against all the different theories. I recommend checking a few of them out, though I think it's okay if you don't make a reaction video to every single Hollow Knight theory video.
i cant wait to play hollow night:Broken Vessel,when you get out as the pure vessel and beat the shit out of everyone in hallownest,then we escape to another kingdom,and beat a god there or something in 2031,i hope is a mosquito god
Exactly what I need to calm down for and hour and 53 minutes. Blg reacting to hollow knight lore :)
the queen has quotes about you being her kid, a great sacrifice, ect ect
Don't have much to say but I loved the reaction and I'd really like to see more mossbag reactions. You had a lot of interesting views on the lore and it was a lot of fun to see how you approached everything. Mossbag has a lot of videos about specific topics and they're all just as good as this one so if you guys would be wiling to watch more I'd absolutely be here for it.
What I think the savagery thing was about teaching the bugs to use their intelligence to help each other and thrive. The hunter is implied to be very intelligent but they only use their intelligence to hunt so they are considered savage
Coming back to this just to say I appreciate how much attention you gave the lore, instead of brushing it off as unimportant because they weren't interested in really considering it or didn't have the vocabulary to understand it.
I just want to point out that Dirthmouth is not outside of Hallownest. You literally have a welcome to Hallownest lore tablet before entering Dirthmouth
Hiya- I am of the opinion that the major holdup for everyone regarding the Hollow Knight lore is that there are so many gaps that not only is there information missing, but there's foundational aspects that have yet to be even hinted about, making theorizing about them impossible (at least for the time being). Anyway, I have absolutely loved your whole playthrough of Hollow Knight which introduced me to your channel. Now I regularly come back to watch the new videos and also rewatch older ones because you are both so awesome and comforting to listen to and watch. Thank you both so much for everything. I'm super looking forward to your playthrough or the Ori games when you get the time to do so. I hope you'll enjoy them. Also, another game I really enjoyed that I would hope you might is the recent metroidvania Blasphemous. I don't know if either of you have played or heard of it. Be aware, it is gory (that's all I'll say on it) so I don't know if that's something you would want on your channel. Much love to you both and stay healthy
my theory as to why Hollow Knight was taught to weild a nail was because their origional plan was to kill the radiance, but they failed and had to resort to sealing The Radiance away
1:56:36 wow that was the only time ive ever not noticed Ians sarcasam as well! somthing about that delivery was so genuine lol
My guess is that they trained the hollow knight in order to prepare it physically and mentally to contain the Radiance. Strong will warrors after all
Theres a statue in howling cliffs that can be dream nailed and says “no mind… no king… release”
Most of the lore is written like a history book, by the victors with bias, with small amounts of bias from the ones defeated/conquered, and some by beings at the time. It’s intentionally contradictory, I think, the same way history is in our world.
Finally! I have been waiting for these since day 1 of you playing the game!!!
21:24 this is actually a really interesting point of view I never considered, I like this
yeah finally !!!!! ive been watching for the last few months n im so excited yall finally cant get spoiled anymore
With reference to the section around 51:30 about the pale kings plans to stop the infection. I think that the pale king possibly believed that the hollow knight did kill the radiance and won storing the remaining infection in himself and being sealed away. hence the fully made statue in the middle of the city of tears to the hollow knight claiming that his sacrifice saved everyone. It might also be that the hollow knight literally just had to kill every infected being in hallownest and store the infection from the corpses in itself to eradicate the infection. This would also explain the training gauntlet in the white palace with the sawblades and the trial to climb out of the abyss as the knight literally needed to be strong enough to kill all the infected without being infected themselves. I also believe that the pale king didn’t fully grasp that the radiance was behind the infection, all the dialogue just talks about the physical infection that they were trying to prevent, and while the soul sanctum does mention that they knew the infection affected the minds. (in the sense of them trying to attain a pure focus in order to prevent the infection) I believe that the bugs never actually knew that the radiance existed properly or at least that it resided within the dream world at all and that they were fighting a physical infection that just affected the mind of those it touched similar to a zombie virus. (Which they believed they beat in the end in sealing the infection up and making the statue in hallownest) So with reference to the pale king trying to kill the radiance to prevent the infection I believe that they didn’t know that there was something to kill in the first place just contain the infection. This also links in with the multiple endings, the main ending has you consuming the infection yourself (I am assuming that this is done in the same manner that the original hollow knight consumed the infection to contain it) to continue the containment, and to complete this ending you don’t have to enter the abyss at all, just follow the steps laid out in all the text from hallownest relating to the kings plan and basically re-do it. And while there is some dream stuff it is only used lightly when breaking the seals from the dreamers. As the dream stuff used by the pale king and hallownest is pretty minimal and disparate from each other I believe this signifies that the pale king never truly understood it well and just learnt what he could from the moths and used it as a tool to do specific things. But for the true ending we have to interact with the moth to fully awaken the nail to even get access to the full power of dreams and learn about void (which is only really learnt in the abyss) to be able to actually kill the radiance and doing all of this allows us to actually interact with the radiance at all. So due to this I think that it may be possible that the pale king didn’t know about the radiance at all as the source of the infection and was trying to fight it with the right tools but in the wrong way. I am aware that there are still a few holes here that don’t perfectly line up though, but I think it fits with the evidence in the white palace and city of tears which should be from the perspective of the pale king or at least people following his plans or using the same knowledge as him.
I don't think they realize that the pale king didn't have a lord of shades ready and willing to help them kill the radiance.
I can really hear some of the Arin Hanson influence in Ian’s commentary, including a few direct quotes, except you’re good at games. One of my new favorite LP channels, binged this whole series, loved the voices and the chemistry between y’all and how damn good you are at the game
I would personally really enjoy watching more reaction videos on mossbag content !
Mossbag has a lot of other lore videos if you want a bit more clarification on specific stuff
This video is a way to make me watch the lore video another time :)
finally i've been waiting for so long for yall to react to mossbag
Cant wait for Ori!! Great reaction ^^
Why are you assuming that the Dung Defender didn't know there were vessels, he simply didn't know there were other vessels than the Hollow Knight still living... or maybe i'm just stupid
I actually love this cuz now I can watch this vid and fell like I’m not alone lmao
i think the pale king wouldn't be able to make the hollow knight kill the radiance anyway because it requires to unify the will of the void, while he was convinced that void has no will of its own and used it as simply a blank slate
You could argue that ghost is perfectly hollow by considering a 4th wall break: only a perfectly empty vessle can be controlled by a player from beyond :P
Fun fact about Dryya, She was originally meant to be the boss of queens garden instead of the traitor lord and in the kickstarter post about it she was described as "going mad over the death of the queen" i would of loved to see that boss fight but i can also see how having the queen be alive helps with getting lore more than having both her and the king dead Also you do indeed need voidheart to enter pantheon 5 if you do not have void heart you can goto the pantheons entrance but the pantheon itself will be blocked off until you get void heart. You do not need the dreamers to enter p5 though
1:47:00 yes, the void heart is indeed required for pantheon 5
soooo glad you guys watched it. it finally feels like hollowknight on BLG might be done and that sucks! Can't wait for more mossbag reactions and silksong whenever it does finally come out!
The Godseeker's rituals bring out the true power and potential of every “god” that live in Hallownest, INCLUDING the Void. The Void is given true unity and purpose upon seeing The Radiance, it HAS to snuff it out.