USS Pennsylvania (1837) - Guide 385
2024 ж. 26 Сәу.
32 138 Рет қаралды
The USS Pennsylvania class, sole first rate ship of the line of the United States Navy, is today's subject.
Read more about the ship here:
www.amazon.co.uk/History-Amer...
www.amazon.co.uk/Line-Battle-...
www.amazon.co.uk/Bridging-Sea...
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/press/books?f%5B...
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'Legionnaire' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Do USS Walker DD-163. She may have had an uneventful life in our timeline, but the Destroyermen Series of books gives a breath back into these old ships.
had the US actually completed/retained thouse previous line ships up to the war of 1812, how would they have affected the Royal Navy's efforts?
In general, how long would it take to build or upgrade a capital ship-sized drydock?
Phew 138 guns ye-to-the-Ouch!
Assuming you haven’t already done them, how about: HMS Grenville, U class destroyer subsequently converted to type 15 frigate F197 HMS Bittern, ww2 sloop sunk at Namsos 1940
USS Pennsylvania, saddest warship story you've ever heard. Barely got built, did nothing, got burned.
That's the story of the US navy until the Dreadnought era and beyond. The only reason the Constitution lasted as long as she did was because of multiple charity drives and massive prodding of congress to make up the difference... and that almost wasn't enough even then. Of course contrast with the four Iowa class which, while their service as warships is almost certainly finished, were serving even up until the 1990's.
Even more sad than BB-3 USS Oregon? 14,000 mile voyage around Cape Horn and the impetus to the Panama Canal, Spanish-American war hero at the Battle of Santiago de Cuba, 1922-42 as a War Memorial-Museum ship, 1942, stripped down to her hull and used as an ammunition barge during WW2, then sold and scrapped in Japan in 1956.
@@johnnash5118As an Oregonian I'm sad about her getting scrapped, would've been nice to see the only battleship named after my home state. But at least she got one last cruise on a typhoon beforehand. I like to believe she broke her moorings on purpose.
@@alphax4785 The Iowas were even worse than Pennsylvania, they remained in service but never proved to be viable capital ships in that entire time, being gigantic and wasteful CLAAs and monitors instead.
There were numerous having a similiar fate. Adler von Lübeck was the largest warship of her time, however, the war she was built for ended without her seeing any battle, and further large scale conflicts did not materialize. So she was converted to a cargo vessel, and was dismantled after 20 years.
Even if it was never actually useful, I always thought this was a very aesthetically pleasing ship
Best that could be said here, as with many weapons, "it was available if needed".
If I'd sailed up the east coast or gulf coast and thought a chunk of that wide and fertile land might be nice, then she shimmies up .... I'd be looking for the escape clause.
Pennsylvania's story feels like an encapsulation of every Congressional appropriations odyssey of the last 250 years, although during WWII, we finally started prioritizing the Navy...🤷🏻♂️
Well said!
Ww2 for the USN goes from tragedy to straight up comedy. The money printer goes brrrr, doesn’t adequately describe it. The printer got turned on, left, and then made more printers.
Only to dismantling half of it during the Truman (that didn't like much the Navy and hated the Marine Corps!) presidency thanks to the secretary of the Defence Louis A. Johnson (that was supposedly lobbying with the recent created US Air Force and McDonnell Douglas) that damaged the relation between the Navy/Marine corps with the US Air Force (resentment that still lingers around between them!) due to the dismantling of half of the Navy, Marines and also the Army that caused the debacle of the first months of the Korean war... And in part, this is one of the reasons why Truman lost the election in 1950...
@@Yamato-tp2kf yep, though MacArthur certainly helped. 🤷🏻♂️
@@JohnBianchi But MacArthur was very busy with Japan...
Quite a story for a ship with one journey and 9 years of service. Sadly, a fleet destroying itself is always sad (our ships had to do the same in Toulon).
Actually they didn't, Churchill offered France a union and urged the French Navy to join the Royal Navy against the Nazis, this was rejected by the Vichy puppet government and French troops fought against the allies until France was liberated by the British, Canadians and Americans in 1944.
@@johnallen7807I suspect they were obeying their government.
@@myparceltape1169 Hmmm? Wasn't that the defence the Nazis used at Nuremberg?
@@johnallen7807 to be clear - it was Vichy French forces that fought against the Allies till the "liberation" of France (particularly the French Navy under Darlan). The "Free French" forces fought with us wherever they could - from Italy to Asia (notably forces under De Gaulle and LeClerc).
@@williestyle35 That is what I said. I don't know the comparative numbers but Vichy forces fought hard against us in the Torch landings and in Syria. The French had both a very strong communist faction as well as many right wing figures particularly in their armed forces. Darlan was one and he was assasinated while Petain was shot by Gaullists at the end of the war.
William Mahone: “I’m about to pull a pro-gamer move.” _[Proceeds to scare away the entire garrison of Norfolk with a single locomotive and some passenger wagons.]_
HACKER! COME ON, DEVS, GET OFF YOUR BUTTS!
Very interesting, never heard of this ship before. There are countless untold or obscure folds in history.
He actually talks about her quite a bit
Wait! The old theme is back!!! I just realized!
possibly just made before he changed
Hurray!
Hussaaaaah!
No it’s not, this one is relatively new first being used 7 months ago.
It's not an old theme dude...
While 4” guns and their near neighbors seem the best fit for ww1 destroyers they always seem too light for ww1 light cruisers. I keep expecting something in the 4.7” to 6” range. Watching this video where the first rate has over 130 thirty-two pounders it makes more sense as 4” guns fired shells that were in the low to mid thirty pound range.
She was four guns too short of a happy meal to rival the El Ponderoso.
El Ponderoso was armed with dinky 8 pounders to pad out the gun numbers, Pennsylvania had a fully uniform battery of powerful 32 pounders. If anything, Santísima Trinidad was absolutely no rival to Pennsylvania.
Some things I can forgive, other things I can forget, but what Congress did in depriving us of a fleet of heavy first rate ships of the line, I can’t do neither.
We had some pretty sporty frigates, though, one of which is still with us!
Leave it up to the Government to screw over its military and citizens lol
The US trying to match the British 1-3rd rate numbers would have destroyed the country. With any lull in RN commitments elsewhere. The RN would then bury any US ship of the line in 74s. Beggaring a country on such projects would be a waste.
At least we got Constitution
I used to have a t shirt that had blue prints of a sailing ship on it i assumed it was jhms victory until my girlfriend stole it as pyjamas and i spotted stars amd stripes after much research i learned it was this ship ehichbi had never heard of and i never knew the USN even had a ship of the line. Been waiting for drach to cover ever since!
Happy Sunday to you and yours Drachinifel
Good morning Drach, glad to see ya!
wo7ld Yong miss Drach be named Mss Drachinifelle? or a Dracette?
This is one of my favorite ships. Thanks for the video.
Sweet! I've been waiting for this one!
What a strange tale of the unknown. I do not remember ever hearing of the USS Pennsylvania. Thank you, Drach
Thanks Drach
Thanks for the sad story of a magnificent ship.
Thank you!
Thanks drachif
I love hearing about the War of 1812. Please do more on the subject if you can 👍 🇺🇲🇬🇧
Great information on the origins of the Merrimack/Virginia story, filled out a lot of holes in the story of the first ironclads 👍. Go Navy 🇺🇲
First time I ever saw Pennsylvania was in a US Navy book ( the white one with the big plastic crest ). And seeing as how most of my knowledge of ships revolves mostly around the Civil War and WWII as a kid I was a bit flabbergasted and couldn’t believe it was real. Bear in mind I’d really only seen frigates at this point
No wonder i'd never heard of the Pennsylvania. She never really got out of ordinary. What a pity. (And just what is an 'accomodations ship' - a floating hotel or something?) Thanks, Professor!
Very close. An Accommodation Ship was in essence a floating barracks and school for both officers and enlisted. She could also provide office space for officers awaiting access to their own ships or if needed for the facility she is moored in.
@@robertf3479 Thank you, Robert!
Yet another unknown ship from my own country...I am ashamed of my naval ignorance.
Well to learn something from Lord Drachinifel is a blessing 😉
Well just be glad they don't make you memorize the names of all the Fletcher class destroyers in WWII.
In comparison to Drachinifel we are all ignorant of naval history - wherever we reside.
@@williestyle35 Not completely ignorant but well, Drach is Drach 🤣
Don't be too hard on yourself. I don't think that there is much shame in not knowing about a ship whose only significant contribution to history was as a bonfire.
thats cool didnt know it existed
How interesting, I had never known the US had such a large ship. Very unusual for our government at the time.
it's such a shame Pennsylvania never got to do anything.
Makes the fates of the Santa Anna class almost seem kind in comparison doesn't it?
'Superb :)
Speaking of gorgeous first rates. Shame her career went the way it did.
As far as I can tell, she was the first ship named the Pennsylvania in the U.S. Navy.
Gotta love that U.S. Senate logical way of thinking and budgeting when it comes to military readiness and deployment. They basically authorized an expensive bonfire structure.
That was money well spent... at least it gave the shipyard some wages and something to do.....
The American Santissima Trinidad
One that clear had enjoyed hamburgers and hot dogs, but still four guns too short of a happy meal to rival the El Ponderoso.
Thank you for a very informative video. Can anyone recommend a book on the destruction of the Union ships in Norfolk to prevent their capture by the Confederates in 1861?
Have you done anything on the O Class submarines of the 1920s? I think the first RN submarine lost in ww2 was one of the class, HMS Oxley.
✌
Have you done any Ottoman ships of the line? Like the Mahmudiye? I don't hear that much from the Ottoman Navy
The US equivalent of the Yamato
Only in part. The Yamato at least served during its existence as a floating hotel for Yamamoto and whomever succeeded him as C in C of the IJN. Pennsylvania never even got to do that. It was in service for much less than four years and never served as fleet flagship. But you are quite right that neither the IJN nor the US navy got any meaningful use out of their 'white elephant' battleships.
My gran used to have a saying, more dollars than sense. But then Im left wondering if this was a case of too much money or not enough.
The revolution doesn't bother me, an Englishman, near so much as the fact the Americans, an Anglo people allied with the French against other Anglo peoples! That is enraging, verses rebellion against the Crown and / or Parliament, which is a national and cultural pass time for Anglo folk. At least 9 civil conflicts in England alone, American independence evokes 'meh, it was about time'.
We've seen countless instances of alliances shifting, Anglo or not. That's just part of human history.
@david9783 No, you can not ally with a Frog, turk, arab, mohameden Cultist, or a communist over a fellow Anglo. No matter if you're a different type, you are still an Anglo!
The US-French "alliance" did not last too long. During the French Revolution there were Americans who wanted to get involved with France against Great Britain but Washington warned us against it, something about staying out of entangling alliances. I think a lot of Americans thought the French Revolution was another Tea Party, Washington was hinting that it was more of an "occupy Wall Street", and, ultimately, could wreck our country. The US public was divided about the War of 1812, some people wanted to annex Canada and ordered our army and militia to make it happen, but once the militia got to the border they were like, "hell no, we won't go", willing to fight for our country, not invade another one.
But to be honest, how many times did one English or Scottish faction ally with the French against the other side? Didn't Richard I ally with Philip II against his father Henry II, for example?
@@gregorywright4918 Many, many, many times. Even before the 16th century some Scots referred to it as the "Auld Alliance". Once France was invited into Scotland with an occupation army to deter English invasion. Most of the Stewart monarchs before James VI (later James I of England) pursued French alliances as a way of deterring English aggression and occasionally legitimacy and support against their own quarrelsome nobility. The policy of seeking alliance with France seems to have started sometime before Robert the Bruce.
Age of Sail version of the South American Dreadnoughts?
Pretty much.
👍🎯❤️
Welp, that's my home state. I can't not check it out.
Kinda interesting, but I prefer the other ship usages of the name.
Such magnificence... burned :(
43rd, 27 April 2024
I still think that HMS Victory and USS Constellation 1854 are the better looking sailing ships.
Did the south recover any of her guns
The US Congress acts NOW exactly like it did in the 19th Century-and it always has. After WWI, everything was downsized so by the late 30’s when another war loomed in Europe, the US military was again small and ill-equipped! Luckily, FDR found a way for the US to not be caught flat footed this time, worked out Lend-Lease with Britain and later the USSR. It continued this up and down tug of war through today. I’ll never forget the beginning of the first Gulf War and seeing US troops in the green camo uniforms from Vietnam standing out like sore thumbs in the beige desert! They may as well have had “aim here” signs on them. And we’ve seen recently when it took over 6 months for Congress to pass the supplemental funding for Ukraine!
it's almost as though they don't care about the result of their actions, it's the process they are obsessed with.
:)
I didn't know warships had spa decks. Officers only I suppose!
The term is "Spar Deck" which on American warships was the uppermost full length deck or weather deck fully covering the gun deck below. USS Constitution as a frigate has one with no other partial decks above, deck houses or cabins (see HMS Victory for an example, her Captain's cabin or suite makes up much of that structure.)
Her story is a fine example of how the US government management of most issues goes.
The USS Pepe Sylvia!
It could have made the american civil war a bit more interesting if Johnny Reb had been able to get his hands on a couple of those first rates.
Sat for 20 years Not sure how sea worthy she be
Azur Lane when?
I dont think she was going to be a good sailor if it was bases on the Santísima.
The Royal Navy, the Pirates of North Africa, the Spanish Navy, the Imperial Japanese Navy, and the Kriegsmarine all combined have not attrited the US Navy as much as the Congress of the United States has.
What a waste....
What a waste of wood
Pointless
Navy ships are not pointless just because they are put in reserve. Maybe they can serve as a deterrent for a potential enemy. But regarding this ship I have no idea, you might be right. Maybe there were no potential enemies and therefore the ship really was pointless.
@@andreaswiklund7197 Her Guns would have served all over - The Confederacy!
The ship had a point. So did the video. If you can't find them that's on you.
For a nation with very little foreign policy during the era? You are probably right?
@@andreaswiklund7197 The reason we had no "Potential enemies" is because of the "Pax Britannia". The British had a foreign policy of allowing Latin America to go its own way, keeping Spain from largely interfering, and had a policy of free trade and, apparently, freedom of the seas. They paid for it and America took advantage of it by having a tiny military.