2023 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE Winter Driven | Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Is A Game Changer
2023 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE Winter Drive Testing Of Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. What could possibly go wrong with RWD, insanely stiff track suspension and 650hp and 650ftlbs of power at your right foot. After briefly trying to drive the Camaro ZL1 1LE on the original Goodyear Supercar tires in below freezing temps just on my neighborhood I almost wrecked it and did not feel safe even below 30mph that is how scary this car is on the original Goodyear R Compound Track tires. We decided to replace the tires immediately to make this car more practical and my suggestion was the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S from years of past experience in winter driving with them on other cars ive owned. I have done videos years ago proving how the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires can handle the colder temps and even damp conditions like today if you drive responsibly. The 2023 Camaro ZL1 1LE went from un-driveable and stuck in my driveway to being able to cruise around safely in below freezing temps with snow coming down and damp slippery roads. Stay tuned for more content coming soon as weather permits and my full detailed review of the 2023 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1 LE to hear my thoughts coming from the Shelby GT350 world.
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I have a 6 speed manual 2023 ZLE but in Summit White. These cars are an absolute riot to drive! I love the power, stiff race suspension and aggressive aero.
These are wild machines I can’t wait to drive it next week when temperatures warm up quite a bit
@@autofanaticcars Looking forward to the video.
THe SS 1le is one of the best value new sportscars you can buy, if you dismiss the visibility it's insane !! My uncle has one and it's pretty crazy manual too
Couldn't agree more! All great cars
Awesome Car Phil!! Can’t wait for your next video.
Coming soon! Damn winter finally kicked in badly this week ruining all the fun
Great car, love the interior colors.... Congrats !
You are a hundred percent correct in regard to the PS4S in cold conditions. I live in north Jersey and had no traction with PZero summer rubber. I switched to the Michelin and was amazed. They are so sticky in cold temps that they are still able to pickup stones. Definitely the best kept secret for cold temp driving.
Thanks for sharing my G80 M3 came with PZero when I got it Winter of 2023 it was outright dangerous, switched to the 4S and same feedback the car could not break loose as hard as I tried. Every manufacture of tires is so different and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the only summer tire that seems to work as such as all other tires in this category become dangerous hockey pucks under 50degrees
I wish I knew this before having the Stealership replace my new ps4s on my M2 with DWS 06 plus ! I could’ve maybe got through this winter & saved $1200 ! Thanks and have fun with your new ride !
The DWS is an amazing tire do not feel like you’re making a trade off check my snow drive video from last week i still can’t believe how good they were in ice and snow
Good informative video on Pilot Sport 4S. I've tried them in -10*C on dry winter roads, and they seem to do fine, as long as ur just cruising, doing the speed limit, and not being aggressive with them. But the moment they hit a patch of snow/ice, then u lose all traction and can't move.
Exactly i did video just to show that you can at least drive your sports cars in winter months rather then letting them sit idle for months
totally agree on the Pilot Sport 4S in the winter. Did not swap to my all season this winter in Boston due to injury and they have been fine on my CTS Vsport. 20 degrees today..have kept them off the snow however
Exactly as long as your not on slushy snow and ice you’ll get around just fine
Is this your new car? Sick!!
Can’t wait to hear the review.
Review drops tomorrow
Perfect! Thank you
I had Michelin pilot sport 4s on both my 17 z51 and GS they were great as Oregon gets a lot of rain but for winter don’t even try them. Get the alpin pa4 tires for any snow situations and you’re golden. Or get a Subaru and park the summer car. Got a ZL1 now and that’s been my best option.
Exactly the tyres I use on my Giulia Quadrifoglio. The best for snow/rain surfaces.
Yes they are!
i just had 4s installed on my zl1. yes, so far they feel great. in snow forget it lol. my f1s were ok but these feel like theyre much more stable. got mine from tire rack too. yes TC systems in our cars are excellent. youre crazy if you hammer it now lol. but im looking forward to warmer weather.
Very nice!
Looking forward to the content on this car. I have one just like it 2019. Still have the original tires on it. Warmer climate. I would like a different tire for summer bc the tires are so sticky it picks up so much road debris and slings it on the car. It’s a beast for sure and a hand full even in summer if you get on it. Scary!!
Yeah i can already feel power i was considering a CT5 BW over the summer and that car was actually tame i guess added weight and wheelbase helps. These ZL1 on a nice open track must be incredible
4:25 Phil, I can assure you that some tires do crack in cold temps. It happened to my Cup 2, all four of them. At the time my car only had 90km (55miles) on it. I learned that lesson the hard way.
Only tires i ever had crack on me were Michelin AS3 all season years ago on my Infinity Redsport they cracked less than 9 months but Michelin did warranty a new set so i guess it depends on so many factors.
Good video Phil. I agree with you that it's bs about the tires cracking in cold weather. GM put out a tsb several years ago stating that the pilot super sports should not be driven below 20 degrees farenheit. I think this applies to the 4s as well. I've driven my ats v in temps 20 and above without any issues just have to go easy until they warm up. Many on the c7 forums have done the same. Am a little hesitant to try them below 20 though.
My PS2s sidewalls failed after short trip from home to local restaurant One winter. Outside car. I made it there, but came back out to find entire circumference of sidewall cracked and tire flat. Good luck with running summer temps all winter. Don't be mad if it fails.
Sometimes you get lucky. Reading through forums, there are plenty that do crack
I use Pilot Alpin in the winter but good to know that PS4S may not kill you on clear roads. The predecessor PSS does get sketchy below 45F.
Yes the older Pilot Super Sports weaknesses were in rain and colder temperatures the 4S goal in new compounds successfully addressed that well
I have a 22 2SS 1LE Nor close to horsepower you have It has never been driven in the rain let alone snow. Thanks for the info
On my SS 1LE it comes with Goodyear Eagle f1 Supercar 3, not the R version, and I'm fine running it year round here in GA. Wet performance is fine, and grips is awesome in the summer. The only complaint I have is how short the tire life is. With a few track days and mountain runs my first rear set was done at 6k, fronts replaced around 7. You need to get your hands on one in the summer and try that PTM mode out: it's amazing how well they work.
Wish i was in GA now with all my cars but your temperature are cold like NY now which is crazy
@@autofanaticcars Yea you're right: some nights hit as low as 12 right now. Can't wait for spring/summer.
Once you’ve had the car for a while, I’ll extremely interested in your long-term comparison on the ZL1 1LE vs the gt350R. Congratulations on the car!
My review will be up next weekend most likely Sunday I already have a bunch of feedback to compare to the GT350R
Awesome! I have a summit white ZL1 1LE and have always wondered about a gt350R owner’s thoughts. I’ve considered getting a gt350R, but I just love the ZL1 1LE way too much.
U should keep it in the garage during winter it’s to nice. The Alpha platform is incredible even at 6 or 7 years in
Had PS4 on my Mustang drove it in cold and light snow many times no real problems just driving normal, now I have Pzero on my Challenger and it takes a while to get any kind of heat in the tires to get them to work definitely miss the PS4z.
Yeah Pzero are horrible especially on muscle cars the 4S really is the only summer tire that works in colder temperatures
I have A SS Camaro with a manual transmission. I replaced the Goodyear Eagle F1 tires That came with the car from factory even though I live in florida those tires don't have a lot of treadlife within 6 months my tires were completely bald... now I'm running a all season performance tire much better for the street.
yeah the Michelin Pilots are so much better than those dangerous slicks Goodyear put on these cars, those are track only tires and not smart on any public road.
This car is absolutely amazing! Those stock GY3R tires are purely for the track and nothing else. The tires need at least 3 warm up laps on track before you can push it... As a ZLE owner, you absolutely MUST swap out the stock throttle body for the Katech Ported Throttle body. Easy swap and will take 15 minutes tops. The throttle will be super sharp with no hesitation/bog off the line. No CEL and No Tune. Cheap mod as well. (The stock throttle body is the same they use in silverados and has a thick wall which does not help throttle sharpness). Get the ZL1 Addons Jacking Pads - will make your life easier. You can easily rotate the struts in the front clockwise 180' to get up to -2.75 on both sides. Just do an alignment later. Make sure you align it to 0 Toe Front and 0.05 Toe In Rear. Great feel and wear.
Yeah the oem tires were so useless in these temperatures rendering car not drivable. Does the throttle upgrade require ecm retune? Post a link to more details on that if you can. I have these magnetic jack pucks that work great on these and the Cadillac’s but i think the bolt on permanent ones might be better to wrench more often. Any idea on what the stock alignment is on these cars
I’m driving my 350R with Michelins SP4S here in Maryland at 20-30 degree temps. I thought i was the only one who noticed how well these tires handled in the colder temps. I have a 2nd set of wheels with all seasons just incase it’s a bad season, not the case for this year. Michelin’s for the win
Nice i did testing years ago on my Shelby GT350 on channel it seems these are the only summer tires that can work in cold temperatures
How does the stick in the Camaro compare to the M3? Is it the same setup as the Blackwing? The road salt getting on the car makes me nuts it’s too cold in NY to even wash it. This morning my C43 turned into a white car.
M3 manual is garbage compared to the Tremec in the Camaro and Shelby . Winter Wash this week on the ZL1
What are your thoughts on a G80 M3 vs a higher mileage F90 M5 for a daily driver? Huge fan of the channel by the way!
Both great i just dislike the G80 nose. M5 CS is the one to have if you can swing it
I’ll tell you what I put this tire on my Subaru 2yrs ago, I was up at my parents around Christmas time, and they got a freak storm in Nevada city where they got 2 feet of snow, I took my Subaru out on unplowed roads, and the thing was a champ! My parents have a 2020 MDX with a super handling all-wheel-drive. I took that car out next and got stuck right in my parents driveway. I can’t believe how shitty those continentals are….. then I took out my parents, Highlander sport with the Nitto NT421Q I was highly impressed with that tire I over, exceeded its design capability and finally got stuck down the road from my parents. I just couldn’t believe how Acura taught their super handle, all-wheel-drive and put some base crappy continentals on the car.
Oem put crap tires to save money so ridiculous how they get bids on who is lowest cost suppliers and use them
@@autofanaticcars my father had a dedicated set of Blizzak for the Highlander but they are 12 yrs old now, so last month we decided to put on cross climate 2 didn’t get any snow this year but I’m hoping to try those tires out soon! These manufacturers are forced to put Eco tires on to achieve a certain EPA fuel economy rating
Not gonna lie, when you sold your Mustang... i thought you would gonna buy a ZL1. Dream car if you ask me
These cars are so similar yet very different il discuss and highlight a ton of details in the full review video soon once weather warms up
Summer tires are good in... Summer
From TireRack on the product page: "Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle. Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."
keep reading warnings when so many owners use these as shown without issues this car is garage not left outside and wont be subjected to abuse in cold weather
@@autofanaticcars Many cars in my building have 4S on in the Winter. This guy drives his M4 Comp almost daily and I'm in the NorthEast and I think that's insane. Yes, its garaged (but I'm in an open air garage where its probably 40 degrees) but then driving out into 20 degree temps. How could these tires not start cracking? Even worse, there is even a 200K+ Porsche Turbo GT Truck with OEM Pirelli Corsa's and he just drove out yesterday in 26 degree temps. I don't see how they can get away with it for too much longer. Honestly, I don't think they realize as it "comes with the car so that means I can drive it all year" attitude.
intermittent use is not the issue it is prolonged exposure to bad conditions that can ruin tires over time it wont happen just taking the car for a cruise on occasion which of course heats the tires up over the winter and most garages are 40F if this was bad then millions of tires would be destroyed each year since lots of OEM use these tires on their performance models. Consider how dealers keep cars on lots all year long and even some of the most expensive storage centers do not keep temps above 50 most days. I think rubber in general has had issues when 2020 caused shortages and raw material issues i do not think it would be so common today as it was years ago but the manufacture has to cover their ass and make those disclaimers.
oh and wet weather traction is supposed to be similar. is this true?
Yeah these are great in rain
This zl1 and a Ferrari f430 is all I need in my garage
430 Scuderia is the ticket 👍
Nothing like driving a camaro on salt roads.
Ive driven pilot sport 4's in cold temps...so long as there isn't ice or snow. My car is a gr86 with far less power than this..lol, so that makes a difference. But the ppl that say those types of tires should never be used in cold temps don't know what they're talking about. They're fine so long as you aren't driving stupid.
Exactly once theres ice or heavy snow game over into a tree 🌳
How well did your GT350 hold its value?
Value are holding on the GT350 but some sellers and dealers are dreaming still asking stupid money. I traded my GT350R towards the AMG GTR as deal made sense
Bro when did you move to Europe lol thought you where in Jersey
Ha ha still in NY definitely not Europe no thanks 😎
It would be cool if you did a full wash/ you’re style of washing method to get rid of salt +autofanatic
Coming this week full winter wash video on the ZL1 its filthy
I thought you’re not supposed to drive these tires this cold…? Am I wrong?
Not practical for me to own several cars. I daily drive my S550 GT, so I can relate to this video. One good thing where I live in Texas, no road salt. What’s the story on this car? Did you buy it new in Florida? Is it a long term car? Looks great - Good luck with it.
Michelin says nothing below 40F for the 4s. BS or not believe the mfgr. I used mine on track so at a buck fifty I follow the mfgr recommendation. Best of luck.
Are you selling the stock tires? I'll take them off your hand and you might be local to me.
Keeping the Goodyear for now
The real question is why not get a c7 manual vette at this price point ?
I kinda like the C7 Zr1 but the prices are stupid still on those and I don't think that is a smart purchase at the current market prices. The C7 Gransports are a great bargain
My guy, can this Camaro gap lets say... a stock M5 competition?
Depends on driver but these cars with a few bolt on mods are pretty sick. Few years ago we built one of these with 1200hp Whipple, Cams, headers etc it was nuts
Nice car. Kiss those tires goodbye - that rubber is micro-cracked and hardened for good. I found out the hard way...
never had an issue if the car is garaged no worries to take it out for a spin occasionally now if the car is left outside for an entire winter buried in ice and snow then yes that is not a good move. point of this video is the OEM tires make this car undrivable in cold temps to the point of dangerous and these alternative summer tires will work in all temps to use the car safely
@@autofanaticcars I wish you luck. I put maybe 50 miles on a new set of pilot super sports over a winter - just to keep the car's fluids circulating. Come the end of the next summer all 4 tires were full of cracks. After replacing them I realized they were hardened too - the new ones not just had better traction but a noticeably better ride. After some calls to the manufacturer it turns out they recommend not even storing them in sub-freezing conditions - and no driving below 50 degrees - the soft rubber hardens. Add cold with driving stresses and the rubber gets micro-cracks that continue to expand even in warm driving because the rubber never fully rebounds to it's original elasticity. Hard to believe but I've seen it first hand - 2 year old tires that were driven in cold next to identical replacements and the cold driven ones were noticeably harder to the touch (fingernail scratch). They don't call them "summer only" just because of poor traction. Now I got a set of nokian hakkapeliitta 7's on winter wheels - unbelievable what a difference they make. But again - I wish you better luck than I had.
What are u talking about that is what the tow hook is for lol
Wasn’t worth risking it that day plus tow hook on car is aluminum and more cosmetic the original tow hook wasn’t in the cars trunk
A cosmetic tow hook? Wtf is that...
Just kills me too see it driver in the salt n stuff.poor car
Only a car watch the full wash video few days ago 😎
I'm pretty sure the ZL1 didn't come out in 17 because I had a 15.
The 6th Gen Came out in 17 as an 18 model i was trying to buy a Zl1 March of 17 then got my GT350 at msrp in April 17 you had the 5th gen version completely different cars
Got it, didn't realize you were talking about the 6th gen thought you meant ZL1 in general. I also had the GT350, 2016, fun car but Ford really screwed the pooch with the exhaust. Mustangs in general used to have the best sounding stock exhaust aside from a super car my 1996 Cobra sounded way better than my GT350. I now have a 23 SS 1LE which i love mainly because the rims are perfect for a muscle car and I love having HUD again I really missed it and on a side note you got your 350 on my B day LOL. Have fun with your beautiful car and be safe.@@autofanaticcars