Masters of the Air. Season 1. Episode 3. This is an insane air Dogfight.
2024 ж. 1 Ақп.
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Hello there and welcome to one of the best air dogfight scene i have ever seen, enjoy it!
A series from Apple.
During WWII, five miles above the ground and behind enemy lines, ten men inside a bomber known as a "Flying Fortress" battle unrelenting flocks of German fighters.
As always Add-Free!
A like or comment is always appreciated and i will try to respond to them all. Have a wonderful day!
I recommend listening with headphones.
It's pretty gutsy for the writers to build characters that they then just write off. But that's exactly how it happened. Those boys' lives were boredom, horseplay, and then existential terror. We really do not appreciate just how many of those boys died until the tides began to turn on the Continent and in the air. Really a good show so far.
My guy, these are real people who actually did or did not survive, they’re not just getting “written off”
@@NickTasy I fully understand that. My grandfather was one of them. What I meant was I'm glad they're telling the whole story the way it actually happened. Guy.
Десятки тысяч умирают в автомобильных авариях ежедневно.Вот,эти смерти позорные.
@@ctcollinthib Episode 8 in particular is full of made up bullsh*t and the operations in the weeks before, during and after D-Day are no more than a 30 second fart. Judging from what they did there, they aren't trying to telling the whole story the way it actually happened.
It's called expendable, long line of who's next. Doesn't matter
So many people in these comments saying everything here is wrong, yet when confronted they have no idea what is actually inaccurate. Absolutely hilarious.
I am overwhelmed man. I can't keep up with the comments. Never had this before. Thanks for commenting. Have a wonderful day!
Didn’t you know that when it comes to experts, the greatest live in aviation related KZhead comments
o doubt op even read the book
Just delete them @@Perfectblue33
Also safe to say that there are many people here who CAN clearly quote historical inaccuracies.
Despite some small discrepancies, this show is really good and about a million leagues better than any show that's been put out in the past 5 years, around 30,000 Americans died over the skies of Europe and it's good to see them get some more recognition.
They lost some authenticity when they described which “rout” they’d take in ep 1, Americans always said route until fairly recently. A route is a direction, a rout is a beating by the enemy.
@teeanahera8949 they can be pronounced the same, and a rout means losing morale and retreating but not necessarily losing
Where can i watch this show?
@@Sancto-NLApple TV
@@guts-141 thank you. Only apple tv?
The reference to Hummel’s Fort is accurate. That was my Uncle Dale (Thomas Dale Hummel). He was shot down on this mission, and spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp, where he was a rations officer. As the plane was going down he put a parachute on another crew member and pushed him put first. Then he jumped himself. He was so close to the ground he hit hard and was black and blue up to his thighs. He was eventually liberated by a General who pulled up in a Jeep saying “I bet you SOB’s are glad to see me!” (Yes, it was Patton). Look him up. Thomas Dale Hummel and the bloody 100th.
👍🇬🇧🇺🇲
❤
Incredible.
I just looked up your uncle's story on the 100thBG website. Amazing. Tail-End Charlie for the whole Regensburg mission! Your uncle was a true hero, and I was glad to see he lived a long life. God Bless him! Oddly enough, my dad spent VE Day in Regensburg. His gun battery was guarding Patton's HQ. He saw the devastation at the Messerschmitt factory.
As someone who watched Memphis Belle countess times as a kid, this show has been wonderful so far. Sure, the cgi German fighters sometimes maneuver more like spaceships, but I welcome the rare air combat show
My father flew with the 447th BG. He was excited to watch the Memphis Belle movie. It was so poorly done he couldn't even watch the whole movie.
Several of the fighters are 109E... compleetly out of place in that timeframe... pity they failed in some basic research
@@62kevin My Dad had criticisms for MB as well. He flew 52 missions on '17s so I took his critique as valid.
You all bitch way to much lol
The German fighters were a powerful force until The "Red Tails" the Black Tuskegee Airmen, flying P-51s never lost a bomber when they were the escorts!! That was one helluva feat!!!
The first two episodes are slow but this is when the show shines and it gets real when all these characters you’ve gotten to know just start dropping like flies. Huge respect to the heroes that flew during WW2
Those people weren't fighting other soldiers, they were killing civilians. Those are not heroes.
@@TheAlja Tell that to Hitler who started the war in the first place
@@TheAljathose "civilians" chose Hitler, chose to do nothing when mass murdering happened. Why the need to feel sorry for people that think they can decide that some "lesser race" has no right to live and some does? Let them taste their own medicine.
@@AllahIsntReal Who cares? They helped win the war
@@milibaTwo wrongs don't make a right. Sure, the Allies were much better than the Nazis, but we shouldn't glorify the ones responsible for warcrimes or at least morally ambiguous actions on either side.
I think I understand how my grandpa felt during his youth. He was a World War II veteran who served as a turret gunner in the B-17 bomber when he was just 18 years old. He shared stories with me about his experiences in that flying metal coffin. He recounted how he shot down three enemy planes, despite feeling scared initially. He described seeing black puffs of smoke in the air and one instance where an explosion from the flak sent shrapnel flying dangerously close to his fellow crew member, hitting him on the arm. He expressed his fear of dying in a plane or falling into enemy hands, having heard about the treatment of American prisoners. What frightened him the most was the lack of protection; neither the jackets they wore nor the plane itself offered much defense. He conveyed a sense of helplessness, describing how they all felt like they were in a coffin, simply waiting to meet their fate. Sadly, he heard that some of his friends perished when they didn't make it out of their B-17s alive. The most harrowing aspect he shared was how the enemy's 20mm cannon could rip through the B-17, while they only had 50-caliber machine guns for defense. He recounted stories from his fellow crew members who witnessed enemy planes tearing apart B-17s with their 20mm cannons. They even spoke of instances where crew members were hit by these cannons, resulting in catastrophic injuries, with some literally exploding from the impact.
I was gob smacked at the first few episodes when they were flying without escort over enemy territory. No way for them to fight back, they had to endure the Luftwaffe.
Some people really have nothing to add but negativity to anything WW2 related show/film. No one is forcing you to keep watching these
This is also pretty accurate. These men got slaughtered without fighter escorts.
No. Because they have to try find some way to demonstrate what they “know” and stroke their ego.
Or "Hollywood" could get ACTUAL WWII technical experts on set, ensure there is both historical balance and some accuracy of flying / battle logistics, before putting out American Hero-centric tripe that is somehow supposed to equate to "Band of Brothers"... which this certainly ISN'T !
And some people say everything they've seen regarding WWII is 100% accurate.. None of us were there and 99% of the vets who survived through that war are gone. This show is 100% made for tv and viewers like you, not people who love history, like me.. Fact is, this show is boring as hell and doesn't even come close to what Band Of Brothers gave us.
@@AerialEscape I’ve never come across a single person who says everything they’ve seen regarding WWII is 100% accurate. There’s also no need to make it out that you’re somehow better than people who like this show dude.
It's ironic, the more people complain about this show...the more you realize its far more accurate than the naysayers would have you believe. These kids had balls of steel.
Thank you for this post you made. I almost totally agree with you! Can't wait for the next episode of this great series. Have a wonderful day!
Using a spent casing as a charging handle was clever. Also looked badass
Yeah except he probably wouldn't be able to charge a browning 50 cal like that. You need to have your upper forearm tending to the ground and pull to you like that. Whereas here his upper forearm points to the top when he charges his 50 cal. I've served for years nd never seen anybody load a 50. Cal like that.
Badass, but wouldn’t work. Browning need a lot of oomph to charge. Empty brass would not be up for the task
@@Drpboston1 and that also! You need a charging handle or something equivalent to it, it's not a walk in the park to rack that thing back
I think they use a spent casing for the dshk machine gun.
@iacortes1482 .50cal rounds are 12.7mm in metric land. And if you look closely, pause it at the right frame (1:39 is what I did), you can see that he's using the empty brass to lengthen small piece of the charging handle that wasn't blown off. The mechanics of the device are just fine and enough of the original handle was left for this to maybe even work IRL.
The 100th (featured in Masters of the Air) flew B-17s out of Troops Abbott RAFB in East Anglia. My father trained on B-17s, but flew B-24s in combat. He was with the 392nd at Wendling RAFB. Wendling, of course, was also in East Anglia about 20-25 miles north and slightly east of Troops Abbott. What heroes! Masters of the Air seems very authentic from all my father told me about his part in WWII. The 8th Air Force took more casualties per capita than any other military group. Once again, what heroes!
U.S. submariners lost over 22% of crews, almost all killed. I don't know the percentage for the 8th. I know it was high but 22% is _really_ high. My Dad was in he 8th. I asked him once, how did they get anyone to go twice. He didn't answer. His squadron lost 25%, all KIA.
@@wdtaut5650 My Dad was in the 100th BG from JUN to OCT '43. He flew 25 missions and was then sent back to the States to train replacement crew so they were better at it than this first wave . He then , along with a couple other buddies, decided to volunteer to go back to combat duty. I asked him about why he would go back to that risk. He told me that , in part, it was because he was ' bored' doing training and he missed the camaraderie of the combat crews. I also think he had 'survivor's remorse' as his original crew and plane went down on the next mission after he completed his tour. He writes in his diary of thinking about those men all time and how ' blue' it made him feel. I still can't believe he went back and flew 27 more missions before the end of the war . But it gave him a unique perspective as he flew during 2 different phases of the war . He was interviewed years ago before his death by a few historians who were trying to tell the tale of '17 crew members . His diary and flight jacket is on display at the 8th AF Museum outside Savannah, GA. His diary was digitized and several WW2 historians have used it in their research .
its Thorpe Abbotts not Troops Abbott .
@@martinporter7259 that was probably a typo .
@@stevedavis9466a typo made twice. Probably not. Could be autocorrect though.
This has been a phenomenal series, the combat scenes are SO gripping. I see some people talking about the VFX but I didn't even notice when watching the full episodes. can't wait for episode 4
You have peanut brain
@@ad3mn I'm sorry you have to do stuff like that to get through the day x maybe try therapy? Probably a healthier option :) good luck
Biggest gripe I have is the CGI. Doesn't look good at all. Takes you out of it unfortunately, looks at times like you're watching a video game cutscene. Not as bad as Midway from 2019 but for the supposed production values and those in charge, should have done a better job. Movies from 20 years ago have better CGI.
You don’t think it’s like watching a cartoon
@@1234567890a77 Seriously? I think the show looks good. What don't you like about the effects?
It was really sad how the one guy got stuck and his friend tried to help a much as he could then right when he jumped out the plane it blew up. This scene was really good!
There was even incident where they had to land with 1 guy in ball turret stuck inside. He was crushed during landing
@@AndyP998that’s a common misconception, it actually never happened during WW2 but it’s spread around like it happened, “any story that describes a B-17 being unable to retract its ball turret has either been misremembered or is false. There is one confirmed case of a gunner being trapped in his turret and killed in the resulting crash, but it is much different, and far more unusual, than the way the story is usually conceived”
@@shmetienneYou can’t just put something in quotes and expect us to take it seriously without actually mentioning where the quote is from lmao
@@Sir_TophamHatt i really don’t give a hoot if you believe me 😂 take two seconds and google it
@@shmetienneI believe the guys who were there vs some historians who never served a day in a bomber
You know, I've always wondered how many incidents of gunners accidentally hitting their own bombers while engaging the enemy. I mean, I know they're trained to be aware of that but still.
from Us army study, roughly 20% of damage during aerial combat was caused by friendly fire and casing. But the flak killed itself as much as aerial combat (and ease aerial combat) source : watch?v=XAfFRpMLXSw
Not only hitting own planes which surely sometimes happened but reporting after flight number of enemy downed. In so many cases 1 german fighter downed was reported by 3-4 other gunners making enemy seem lose more planes that they actually had in air.
@@AndyP998 A few years ago I had a co-worker whose father had been a B17 gunner. His father had told him that he never knew whether he had hit a German fighter -- because he'd typically only see the fighter for a few seconds. Whether the fighter would go down in flames after that he could never tell.
@@anthonygerace332 yes, combat isn't nearly as clear cut as movies and video games make it seem. It is a flurry of confusion and chaos where you don't really know whats going on and you can rarely tell if you've hit your target or not. Fear is a huge part of combat because a lot of it is just getting your enemy to be too scared by your firepower to fire back.
@@anthonygerace332 dude was ass
"Charge handles blown off!" Christ. That's gotta be a one in a million shot.
I mean, and it would be if it was an MG or cannon round. That's a Wf.Gr.21 rocket airbursting right in front of the nose. The frag is preeetttyyy gnarly.
Not so much a comment regrding the video but i feel its necessary to say i appreciate how the uploader wishes everyone a pleasant day in the comments. We need more people like that in the world
Why thank you for your nice comment mate. It is appreciated!
exactly
@@Perfectblue33 no need to thank me, just nice to see some good left in the world lmao
Yeah he's so cool right ? But be careful to not argue about anything "not accurate". The show is perfect. The world is perfect. All is good don't worry.
You made me laugh mate. Finally a good comment. Thank you! Have a wonderful day Sir.@@Morphinem
Tom Hanks/Spielberg dont miss. Band of brothers and The Pacific are two of the best shows ever made..... and its looking like this will be joining them in that category.
Thank you for that information i will check it out. Have a wonderful day!
The Pacific kinda sucked not gonna lie... Big let down coming from Bob
I love this series The intro gets me everytime just waiting on the Red Tails now and see how they blend them in,no disappointment thus far
Those guys deserve their own series. The mission that they were given in the series was basically a suicide mission. Seems like such a waste.
One of the truly great war series episodes. Right up there with the d day jump in BOB
Best show right now to watch.
This is not a dogfight, this is a slaughterhouse.
This
"dogfight" no fighter vs fighter get the fuck outta here with this clicbait
I have no idea what the strategy was. Sure the bombers were bristling with guns but so many were shot down.
The comments here are so real, it's like actually being there.
Lol it’s all the veterans. They were there man!
some of comments are directed to people with no education in subject. Just for people who watch movies and tv shows and some bad historical channel documentaries which dont reveal whole truth. There are discrepancies here but overall its pretty good.
Dad was a radio operator/gunner in a B-17 with the Eighth Air Force, 379th Bomber Group. He crash landed twice and jets attacked them on at least one mission. Flak every mission. He survived in part because he flew in 1945, when fighter escorts were with them the whole way and very effective. I remember his crew came to our house a few times as I was growing up, and they caught up with one another and remembered the war. He had nightmares for years. We could hear him at night.
"sir, i'm affraid we might have found trace amount of blood in your adrenaline"
You made me laugh. Thank you! have a wonderful day!
2:45 that cockpit explosion is something I saw on a history channel that showed gun footage from German aircraft. This really happened but I think the plane that hit the US bomber was a BF 110
there were 110s, 109s, JU88s and FW190s hitting that formation during this battle. The 110s were equipped with rockets. My father was o this mission and kept a diary. He was waist gunner on Piccadllily Lily of the 351st SQ/ 100th BG.
Wrote that 8 hours ago 🙄
Those bf 110´s had lots of 20 mm up to 30 mm cannons with incendiary and high explosive rounds. Those things could rip big chunks out of a bomber.
@@Buledde They sure could...kzhead.info/sun/bJWFhdyppWOHjGg/bejne.htmlsi=sk9MJYI0pwcmpN_z
Besides some discrepancies of who was in what plane at the time of this raid this was an accurate recreation of what happened.
Greatest generation…balls and nerves of steel
I have to agree with you there. Makes you think about the current generation... Hell... i might do a video about that. Thanks for your comment! It made me think. Have a wonderful day!
Forget the rivet counters and the CGI nerds. I grew up watching Memphis Belle on VHS as a kid. This series is shaping up well. Of course Austin Butler is the window dressing, but Callum Turner has been brilliant as John Egan. Episode four was a welcome change of focus. Stick with it.
It sucks, the luftwaffe only attacked singly or in pairs
So far I like this show!
Is the show 100% accurate? No. But, stop complaining this is shining light on what these poor brave men went through.
That Volume (screen) really did all the work in This scene.
Damn with their accuracy they could bring down the entire Luftwaffe within a week. Very impressive!
Actually, they did wreak havoc on the Luftwaffe...even during the unescorted bomber raids of 1943, Luftwaffe plane and pilot losses more than doubled, with the Luftwaffe losing up to 50 % of its entire fighter inventory each month. Once escorts arrived, those losses surged even higher.
Bomber gunners greatly exaggerated their air kills. If they were as true as the claimed, the Luftwaffe would have ceased to exist in a month. They did shoot down some, but only a very small percentage of the actual numbers they claimed
You are incorrect. Sounds like you have never read Harry Crosbys book " A Wing and a Prayer " and he talks about this specific mission in detail and how many fighters the Germans had up there and that the dogfight lasted over 2 and half hours and how many German planes they did shoot down, which was more than they even showed in this episode actually and how disappointed they were that the American fighters that were supposed to accompany them, were never with them as they were told. Crosby was there, and you were not respectfully. He also said multiple men who parachuted out of b17s shot down, were actually gunned down in air by German fighters and dead when they hit the ground. Some of those German fighter pilots were later charged for war crimes for doing this also. Men also really were hit by planes after they parachuted out, Crosby writes about the horror of seeing it. He essentially became the historian basically for the bloody Eighth after the war. A little research goes a long way. I will take the account from a person who survived it... all day vs some people with zero facts but only opinions.
When German fighters broke off, they would frequently "throttle up", which would give off a puff of smoke which misled many gunners into thinking they had downed the fighter.
I'm pretty sure by your comment alone you don't know that it's not the same as portrayed in the movies. Back then it wasn't just one or two types of planes that intercepted the bombers. The germans throwed everything they had at them. 109's, 190's, He's, and hell even BF-110's. You claim that they exaggerated, yet you don't even know what actually happened and how the battles took place. You underestimate the power of wartime production lines and how many planes they can pump out within weeks to months
@@Jbryan23 He is not entirely wrong however. the Regensburg raid is "famous" for overclaimed kills: The gunners claimed 280-300 kills, escorting fighters claimed slightly more than 30 kills. The Luftwaffe lost in reality in total not more than 30 planes; probably fewer. The Regensburg Raid was a tactical disaster - nonetheless with a learning curve. Bombers were not able to defend themselves against fighters on their own. No matter their protection and weaponry. Edit: One more thing you have to keep in mind: The lost vehicles are not that important. Germans could replace fighter air craft fast - so the Americans could as well ofc, however with a delay (shipping etc.). More important was the loss of experienced crews and a downed bomber meant the entire crew had been lost (POW or KIA) whereas a German pilot, if he only lost his plane, was able to join the fray the next day. It is also interesting to know that the main goal of the air strategy was not primarily to annihilate the industrial centres of Germany, but to destroy the Luftwaffe itself in a war of attrition. The Regensburg/Schweinfurt Raids showed that this goal was not possible without fighter capabilities.
@@Jbryan23 not sure about Crosby’s figures but according to well accepted sources 60 fortresses were lost in this mission with an additional 55 to 95 damaged, many of which that reached North Africa remained there as they could not be repaired. Spitfire and P-47 pilots that escorted the bombers claimed 13 and 19 fighters shot down respectively. The B-17 gunners claimed 288! fighters shot down. In contrast the Luftwaffe actually declared losses/ combat records show only 25 to 27 actually shot down.. So I’m not sure Crosby was right on this one. I will add some sources for you here.
that's got to be the most skilled gunner crew to ever exist, you'd be lucky to take out even a single fighter like that
Everyone gotta stop complaining about the CGI and Accuracy. The team have a huge budget for this show. But they can’t cover every part from the book to make it look realistic. I’m grateful that they made this series so great and I loved they included rockets for this scene
I thought the CGI was going to ruin this series, but this looks amazing.
It’s kind of full circle that George Lucas was inspired by WW2 footage for the space battles in Star Wars and this feels like Star Wars.
Talking out of your ass.
George Lucas was inspired by a movie called "633 Squadron" of DeHavilland Mosquitos flying a mission through a narrow Fjord, while taking machine gun fire, to attack a Nazi rocket base hidden at the base of a mountain.... including the radio chatter like "Red Leader"
@@cdncitizen4700 I’ve seen that footage and it’s incredible. I history truly is the greatest story you can tell.
Back in the mid '80's I met a B-17 vet, I believe his name was Robert Eickhoff (unsure about his last name), and the only thing he would tell me about the whole experience, as tears welled up in his eyes, was a general remark about how many young guys were killed flying over there.
Band of Brothers, The Pacific, and now Masters of the Air. All BRILLIANT dramatizations of historical events. And all require 3-4 viewings to fully appreciate. All these armchair, Monday morning quarterbacks nit-picking one or two minor things, as if they’re experts, are nothing but clueless posers….🙏🇱🇷
The main thing here is that the hairstyle stays in place, even as a prisoner of war.
If ever you have watched stalag 17 one PoW has the biggest blonde quiff ever
Yeah, if maybe the plane jumped and bumped from air turbulence, maybe?
He’s a Dapper Dan man
Brylcreem
@@Surv1ve_Thrive Brisk Frisiercreme super. Luftwaffe special edition.
This crew is shooting down more planes than a kid playing a computer game😂
Germans lost loads of planes in this exact battle
Hitting isn’t the same as downing. By your logic every fortress that got hit also went down. Which is demonstrably false.
You made me laugh. Thank you! Have a wonderful day!
@@jacobsalter8653 All in all about less than thirty, and the bomber crews claimed literally HUNDREDS. Think about that.
@@Muschelschubs3r It's because of the way Americans counted aerial victories. Each gunner who reported a kill was counted... but since several gunners from different aircraft were firing at the same enemy aircrafts, the reported numbers were far from accurate.
Fun fact from the book, when the crew bails out and the navigator eats the orders this was actually something the Air Force prepared for. They put their orders on rice paper to make it easier to swallow.
In the summer of 1943 B17's and 24's were operating without fighter cover on deep raids into Germany. On some raids they lost 60 aircraft , the 100 th. bomb group did have a flight that lost 9 out of its 10 . They could literally see have the German fighters waiting for them .
Some people are brave. Some are very brave. Then we have heroes like these.
They were not heroes, but murderers.
@@gh87716 sow the wind , reap the whirlwind, FRITZ
@@markhasleton6403 Britain started the war with Germany. Britain bombed Germany FIRST. They began terror bombing.
@@gh87716 and the Germans were just poor victims, right? They did nothing to deserve any of this.....right?
@@gh87716 War is ALWAYS "them or us"... Germans bombed London... Allies took out Nazi factories and the people that worked in them in Germany. It shortened the war that the Nazi's started.
I remember hearing during high school that the riskiest job for Australians during the war was that of airmen under British bomber command. I dunno how accurate that is but I kinda believe it
This raid lost 60 bombers, but if I'm not mistaken the Brits lost 94 bombers on a raid of Nuremberg in March 1944. The Germans used radar and a cannon that fired directly up so they'd get underneath Lancaster's and bust them open
Now are you blaming the Brits for the Aussie deaths in Bomber Command. They faced exaclty the same dangers as all aircrew. For Christ's sake get out of your WW1 mind set. You had 3 dedicated squadrons.
RAF bomber command had the highest loss rate of any allied service. That’s accepted by numerous historians. Only German U boat crews suffered a higher loss rate. It’s misrepresentation to minimize commonwealth participation to a handful of "national" squadrons, as many RAF squadrons had significant percentages of commonwealth servicemen. My Australian godfather (POW), was an example. His RAF 70 SQDN Wellington crew included a Kiwi and a Canadian. Half the crew… Similar with fighter command. The famous 74 SQDN having a South African boss and a few kiwi aces. Also the fleet air arm, where one of my kiwi uncles was a pilot. (POW). Commonwealth crew were well represented within the RAF, not just within dedicated squadrons like say NZ’s 75 or 485. As were many notables such as Sailor Malan, Al Deere, James Ward, ACM Sir Keith Park and more than a few aces and VC winners. RIP all. In those days we (OZ, SA, NZ & Canada), typically regarded ourselves as British, sons of the mother country. As my late parents recounted more than once. A pity Britain turned its backs on us ASAP at wars end. (Or mid war in Churchill’s case). No such delusions these days.
@@donaldshotts4429True words those. The famous jazz music or “Schraege musik” canon equipped night fighters took a lot of lives. But one could hardly blame them for defending their homeland. Regardless of what their drug crazed dictator had started. RIP all the brave participants in that awful air war over Europe. Never again hopefully.
It's probably true. The riskiest job for Britons was also in Bomber Command. More than half of all aircrew didn't survive the war. Almost nobody lasted from 1939 to 1945. The only people who had it worse were the German U-boat crews.
Can you imagine how hard it is to hit a moving target moving that fast? Insane
My grandfather was a gunner on a bomber got wounded multiple times I remember him showing me the scars when I was a little kid. Later on he switched over to being a merchant marine and was crushed by an accident when loading a shipping container. Man still lived to be 97.
I can only show respect for your grandfather. Thank you for you personal comment. Have a wonderful day!
How many people here have air combat experience
Brave lads. huge respect for what they did for us.
While acknowledging the high production values of the quiet frankly breath-taking aerial combat scenes, but very much more importantly the bravery and sacrifice of the US air crews back in the day,; a debt that will never be under estimated from these shores. My problem and I repeat should not dimmish that sacrifice is purely one of the series narrative and the depiction of not only the British character but also the tactics employed by our {then) beleaguered nation. We are depicted as class ridden snooty, chinless wonders, predominantly from the upper classes, it even has a corporal correcting grammar, like a poorly written Jeeves character! My father by the way was in fact corporal in the RAF and that would never happened, take it from me; just lazy stereotyping by the writers. There is also a scene at a recently bombed railway station in which a snide and unnecessary comment is made about how unusual it was for RAF to bomb so accurately. This in turn insinuates a position that the 'super' accurate US aircrew are blamed for this by pure association as if they were not really the 'terror from the skies'. Again lazy and inaccurate. Please note, when your country has been bombed indiscriminately for years the response will always be (when possible) the 'reaping of a whirlwind', recent US history will bear this point out, so probably not a a point to preach upon. I wont be bothering with the rest of the series as it seems to be stuck in one note crowd pleaser, the spectacular shading the real history. Just a bit lazy, and a missed opportunity in my opinion.
To add on to the bit about the RAF we almost exclusively flew in the night as were the USAF as far as I know only flew day bombing missions.
Love this show, my grandfather was a tailgunner on the B-17's and seeing this reminds me of some stories he told me. With all that said, fuck sitting in the ball turret lol
My grandpa served as navigator on b-17s and b-24s. I am 41, he is 99. And still alive. I have never asked him anything about his experiences. Of course he won't talk about it. I wouldn't
My grandfather (gone 12 years now, unfortunately) was a B-24 pilot. 44th BG.
Ask him to write it down
Bail out procedure required a section headcount. You jumped with your group unless the craft was out of control. Tail gunner and waist gunners would have checked on the ball turret long before jumping. Pilot would have been the last out.
Sounds like proper procedure that wasn’t always exactly adhered to in war situations. There was the manual for combat and then there was real combat.
How does the radio operator hear the ball-turret gunner say he's stuck? He's already disconnected his ICS (you can see the jack on his collar at 4:36), the gunner is in the ball turret with his oxygen mask still on -- and they're in a B-17 with holes all over it entering an uncontrolled dive. Hollywood has never seemed to understand that flying in aircraft that are not sealed up and pressurized is not a place where conversations unassisted by technology can easily take place.
Artistic license. If the audio was like it was during WWII, it would be hard to watch. One thing the directors let go was not covering the faces of the main characters like a lot of war/cop shows do. It makes it hard to tell the characters apart. In Top Gun, the helmets served as a way to know who you were looking at.
This would be a good criticism if the ball gunner survived. Would feel forced, but it adds some emotional impact to have a crewman be aware they left someone behind.
@@RepEvox I get that. And it could have been easily resolved by having him hear the message over ICS seconds before he was about to disconnect. Or, have the gunner rip his mask off and yell at the top of his lungs when he realizes nobody is responding which might be enough to have the radio operator look back and notice that the ball-turret is still occupied. Either would have accomplished the same effect without abandoning the reality that communication was an obstacle in these conditions.
Can confirm, flew in "909" twice, and both times I lost my earplugs right before boarding. The Fort is a noisy girl and she'll leave you partially deaf for the rest of the day.
hollywood don' understand a lot! of things
Some of the formation shots of the B-17s remind me a lot of WW2 paintings.
Thank you for your nice comment. Have a wonderful day!
People complaining have not read Masters of the Air nor A Wing and A Prayer and need to STFU. This is damn near exactly how those books describe it.
CGI overload.
What is the other option?
CGI in moderation. Look at how the Memphis Belle film makers did it. Spot on.
@@PPCmenace A story told on this scale was going to have to use CGI. At the time Memphis Belle was made they had access to more airworthy B-17s. But you’re right in saying they could have moderated their CG more by just having less FX shots in general. We don’t need to see so many dynamic action shots of the planes in combat. Honestly, there have been more FX shots in this series already than there are in a lot of mainstream films, and I think the FX houses were overwhelmed and just had so many shots to create in too little time. It’s a very difficult job.
@@PPCmenaceMemphis belle looked good for its time but looks meh now. The scenes feel disjointed and the planes don’t even look like there shooting at one another or like there apart of the same scene lmfao
@@lostintechnicolor It doesn’t all have to be flight simulator, there are other ways to tell a story with an appropriate amount of CGI, if its over used it starts to look like a play station game.
My great uncle flew P-47s and P-51s during 44/45 in Europe, he would just say it was “excitingly terrifying” when we ask him about it.
This series is EPIC!!
Best WW2 air combat I’ve seen is in Memphis Belle- no CGI all actual flying or miniatures.
Everybody is a WW2 expert now🙄. Relax people
kzhead.info/sun/pZF9ptyyb4murGw/bejne.html
oh no 😂 a shownabout WW2 air war caught the attention of people wo are into that topic.
Yep, there are discrepancies alot for sure, but so far is pretty good. Worst are people who only watch videos and think history is 100% like that before never even opening actual book.@@BratislavMetulski
Firing rate seems slow, as though patterned after the ground, heavy barrel.
It’s an M2 machine gun, same as on the ground. Same rate of fire. And the same as what were in the wings of fighter planes. And actually, versions of the same gun are still being used by the US military.
@@timmotz2827 It is not completely the same. @busterdee8828 is right. The .50s in bombers and aircraft during WW2 were of the AN/M2 variant which had a higher rate of fire of around 750-800 rpm compared to 450-550 for the M2HB (the standard 'ground mounted' version). The higher rate of fire was essential to make it more effective for aerial combat.
An/m2s baby some are still used as chooper door gunners, had rate of fire nearly 3× that of ma deuce on the ground tho usually an/m2's were used in the wings of our fighters. Not sure if the bombers had them in every spot
@@anthonyehling3732 I only recently heard that faster variety. No need to hit the target; it will be disabled by the sudden extra weight in it's pants
This is a great series.
"The STEERING WHEEL means the 'Plane can't LOOP-the-LOOP!"!! ! - St. SkyKnight.
Rockets were not used in close quater combat. Firing distance was 600-1000m.
I found the rockets also very strange. But i was thinking that was me. I looked it up for you. The High Velocity Aircraft Rocket, or HVAR, also known by the nickname Holy Moses,[2] was an American unguided rocket developed during World War II to attack targets on the ground from aircraft. It saw extensive use during both World War II and the Korean War. Have a wonderful day!
@@Perfectblue33 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werfer-Granate_21
rockets were used on '17s by the 110s on the Regensburg mission. I know because my father was on that mission and he recorded it in his diary on AUG18 after. the battle when they were in N. Africa. He was on the Piccadilly Lily of the 351st SQ/ 100th BG.
@@stevedavis9466God bless him
I can only say one word. Respect. Thank you for sharing this. Have a wonderful day Sir!@@stevedavis9466
I come from the 90s an the movie Memphis belle. Sooo this is cool
My dad was a pilot on B 24’s and flew 35 missions. He was awarded the Distinguished flying cross. He named his plane Sleepy Time Gal. I guess there were a few Sleepy Time Gals which was actually a very popular song back then. He told me they got rid of the belly Gunners when he was flying because too many of them were getting killed. The last movie I watched was him was Memphis Bell. He said that was the closest you could get to how they flew from that movie. I have a diary from another crewman that flew w my dad. Their missions were amazing.
Cant glamorize the sheer life and death reality.these young men were in a different league.
It's hard to even imagine what they went going trough. Compare that with the generation X. Thank you for your nice comment. Have a wonderful day!
i love the series but one thing i find weird, i need someone smarter than me to answer, did the ball turrets (the roof one and lower one) really turn that fast tho?
My dad said you could never really tell who hit the fighters. He said the only time he ( guessed he hit one is when it was diving and he saw a couple of bits come off. )
how old is your dad? anyone still alive that was of combat age during ww2 has to be at least 100 years old at this point if not more
@@citybuilder1013 He didn't say his dad said it this week.
@@citybuilder1013he’s only 21 and his dad had him when he was 80 (very fertile genes)
@@citybuilder1013 my dad would be 100 this year . he flew 25 missions with the Bloody 100th from JUN to OCT,'43. I spoke to him about the air war when he was alive but he rarely wanted to discuss it. At his death , we were finally able to read his diary and this series makes it come to life for me.
@@stevedavis9466 its nice to have a focus on the airmen, i feel like that is generally overlooked as a topic of ww2 as most focus on the ground and naval battles
Fine, I'll play Bomber Crew again...
Bomber crew is one of my favorites but play the Mighty 8th redux on steam along with the new B-17 game the bloody 100th. Same concept more realistic.
Anyone know if this is being released as a box set?
Muy buena la serie..las criticas no las leo..porque no es un documental ,es una serie con actores y todo..maravillosa..años esperando una serie asi..lo maximo que habia visto fue menphis belle..pero esto es otra cosa.
apple has rly put in some money to make those scenes
By far been the best episode so far but the rest of the series so far has been dire
The last episode was really weird. They killed of a main character without any scene to him. Really weird. Thanks for your comment.. Have a wonderful day!
The ball turret gunner being stuck in the plane was hard to watch.
Best episode so far
And hardest to watch😢
Fighters against bombers is not a dog fight. 😂
Exactly....this is aircombat.....dogfight is when planes chase each other to get a hit....
Exactly. This was target practice...
@@willmurray1518 Intercepting bombers was an incredibly dangerous mission for fighters. And it certainly was not a picnic for the bomber gunners, either. To call something like that "target practice" really undermines the sheer amount of balls these pilots had, on both sides.
@@cadetrenewThanks for the comment I, of course, agree - I was being snarky, sitting in the comfort of my early 21C world, benefitting mightily from the sacrifice these young men made. But the tale of tape - especially in '43 - is a terrifying testimony to how doctrine can go horribly awry - especially once the Luftwaffe figured out a head on attack on the cockpit was a recipe for success. They didn't call this period "The Black Week" for nothing, nor did the Bloody 100th get its name because of overwhelming success. The casualty rates for the USAAF throughout the four years are mind numbing. I can't imagine standing at a waist gun while 20mm cannon shells ripped through the fuselage.
Stfu you burnout. A guy who’s never intercepted bombers each armed with 12 50s and later escort fighters as well. The hell would you know.
Dogfights are fighters against other fighters. They move around during the fight. Here, the bombers must hold formation under attack.
The scene where that poor kid got trapped in the ball turret broke my heart. 😢. That was so hard to watch!
Can someone tell me what were the switches of the radio operator were hitting? I know that if in case they were going down the pilot would hit the self-destruct button for the iff radio
Their B-17 shot down 6 planes in 3 minutes of combat. Most B-17 wouldn’t shoot down 6 planes in a 25 mission tour of duty.
Yep, apparently this B-17 alone accounted for about 24% of ALL the German fighters lost that day - despite being one of about 375 bombers. In real life each bomber shot down 0.07 fighters (average) during the Schweinfurt-Regensburg raid (and that's assuming all fighters were lost to defensive machine gun fire) -- but that didn't stop the tv show producers from giving their star bomber credit for 6.
My father flew on this mission on the Piccadilly Lily of the 351stSQ/100th BG. He wrote in his diary that he shot down 2 fighters and his other crew got 6 fr a total of 8. Probably not accurate because many times 2 or more gunners would shot at the same fighter and if it went down , they all claimed it.
@@stevedavis9466I go with what your Dad witnessed. He saw it first hand…. Because he was there. 🇺🇸
Yea this is a bit off. They almost made the Fortress a full fledged dogfighter. But its for show I guess, and the audience need its heroes. I just wish Spielberg would resist such urges.
@@kokohero where did they d that ? In EP 5 with Rosie ? He actually did that. read his book.
Those rockets at 0:57 were always fired from behind in formation to break it up and they were not with contact fuses.
you do realize this was the first reported use of those rockets? They had fitted them on ME110s for this battle. So the first time for everything is usually an experiment and they later adjusted their protocol. So don't use the later missions with rockets to critique this one. This episode was heavily researched from eye witnesses who saw the action and reported it in interrogation later and wrote about it I personal diaries as well as articles that got published.
Experiment firing very close range 210mm rockets?? comon really@@stevedavis9466
They wouldnt ever fire that close 210mm rockets, their little aircraft would be full of shrapnels@@stevedavis9466
Whenever I see scenes like this, I start thinking "imagine the amount of bad luck to be on the ground and then get hit by one of the stray bullets shot from one of the airplanes"
There are photos of waist gunners standing thigh deep in spent casings…That sorts of war is unimaginable today
Probably a stupid question but surely some of the gunners would hit their own planes??
Yes,about 6 per cent IIRC.
more often than reported
man thats crazy cos I could've sworn in one scene it looked like he hit his own plane.@@steveg6978
Of course they did
They could of, though they were trained not to. A bomber formation (a combat box) is meant to cover all angles, with overlapping arcs of fire for all the gunners, on all the bombers. (and yes some of those arcs had friendlies in them, though not directly.) If everyone stays where their suppose to in formation and at the right altitudes (slightly off to everyone else) then the gunners will know where not to shoot. They'll lead an enemy aircraft with their fire, judge where its going to go (they can tell which direction and where it'll pass though or over, under etc the formation. they have eyes and training) and hold their fire if its going to either A) pass between them and a friendly, or B) pass behind, below, above etc a friendly. Good fighter pilots could find a blind spot in most other nations air forces in their respective air formations. But B-17s were an American invention so, of course, it has guns for days, and in some cases your going up against four to 1,000 of these things so yeah, its a sky filled with screaming brass and lead. In the chaos of battle, combined sometimes with bad weather or at night, plus aircraft falling out of of formation. With the stress and fatigue of war it must have happened. A few were mentioned, though not with hard evidence besides interviews, dairies and accounts of the crews. No mention in after action reports, as far as I know. Hope this was helpful.
Which computer game is this?
would like to know aswell
@@aka99 love the graphics
Imagine being a civilian on the ground and random bullets just start smacking the ground around you
The plane they bailed out of is Alice from Dallas. Roy Claytor was its pilot. The internet tells me 8 chutes made it from his plane. One guy died when his chute hung up on plane. My God.
ok but why is the bomber at 2:51 flat spinning? no engines hit, tail is fine, and it just has a fire in the middle of the fuselage. something tells me the animators do not know how airplanes work.
But it LOOKS cool...to viewers who do not know how airplanes work. And in the end, apparently, that was _all_ they were going for. (Edit: in other words, I fully agree with you. I have to imagine their technical directors must have had to bite their tongues A LOT.)
Are you aware that they used real footage from that time as a basis for the CGI?
Some people get mad at the the most innocuous of stuff.
control wires likely shot out.
@@Muschelschubs3r I think that _using_ the real footage and _understanding_ it are two different things. You'll be hard pressed to find footage of a bomber "skidding" out of forward flight like that and pretty much doing a 180 with a fully intact rudder and no other massive structural damage to the flying surfaces (like a missing wing).
I find it impossuble to believe the waist gunners would bail before securing the ball turret gunner
If you are stuck. You are stuck it seems. Thanks for your good observation. Have a wonderful day!
I'm surprised the pilot left so fast. Usually he's the last to bail out
Well you better believe its possible. Credit to Vloggingthroughhistory From the mission report, this is what an eyewitness said happened: "On the Regensburg mission this crew was the lead crew of the second element of the low squadron. Wingmen were Ronald Braley and Thomas Hummel, both of whom also went down. At 1020 a swarm of fighters attacked the low squadron over eastern Belgium and so severely damaged the aircraft that Claytor sounded the bail out alarm. Eight of the men aboard got out safely, but Musante's chute caught on the horizontal stabilizer and, when the plane exploded in mid air, or when it crashed he was killed. A William M. Hinton, who was flying in place of Robert H. Wussow, apparently did not bail out he may have stayed too long to assist Musante and was killed. Both Hinton and Musante were given a military funeral and were buried 20 August 1943 "on the Airdrome St. Trond." Hinton in grave #287 and Musante in grave #268."
Waist gunners were supposed to assist the ball turret gunner, so the default every man for himself course of action shown in this clip is strange to see.
@@Melty-Kthere were tons of report of people bailing even if the thing is flyable. It isnt surprising.
do the bombs that they drop before jumping out of the plane detonate?
My great uncle died in a ball turret somewhere. Aircraft lost power and the crew panicked and forgot to help him get out.
Inaccuracies in the video title. There is NO DOGFIGHT in this video! It’s fighters attacking bombers, not fighter on fighter. And it is SEASON 1, Episode 3 (not Season 3).
Thank you for correcting me. Have a wonderful day!
Which plane is the tail gunner talking about when he reports seeing 10 chutes at 3:02? Is he talking about the one that took a hit in the cockpit moments before and erupted into flames throughout the whole fuselage before spinning out of formation? All 10 crewmembers got out of THAT? The way this thing was edited...so bad.
I think it was that bomber that got it on that groups second pass around. That one B-17 that got hit in the cockpit looked like none got out. Scenes like that in this series at first looks very inconsistent when you first watch it but when you rewatch it a couple times analyse some things, you notice things that you didn’t see the first time. Plus in my opinion, it feels like you’re there at times. With the speeds of the 109s and 190s going fast, and just the amount of friendly bombers getting knocked out, it definitely feels so crazy. And I’m really understanding how brutal the air war really was. Huge WWII buff here and I thought the fighting and casualties in the pacific was brutal. These airmen definitely had balls of steel and experienced a different level of brutality in the skies. God bless them
You can see a fortress with chutes deployed behind it, it’s bloody hard to see them because they blend into the clouds, but they are there
@@nathantudor5763 Oh I saw them -- and that's the cause of my confusion. Is the plane falling out of the sky at 3:05 with the chutes behind it the same one that was hit at 2:45? I can't say for sure either way, and that's why I am not impressed with the editing of this show.
The tail gunner shouldn't have seen ANY chutes. They were supposed to not deploy chutes until 5000ft altitude.
I guess its the hearing loss but those are some quiet engines!
awesome scene that gets a 10/10
The fighters act like supersonic jet fighters. Way too fast.
The dive speeds of the fighters are between 300-450 mph. The cruise speeds of b17s were between 160-200 mph. Now imagine a car flying past you going 250 mph while you’re standing still.
LOL Says the guy who was never in a B-17 trying to shoot down German fighters. Imagine a B-17 flying just over 200 miles per hour. a FW 190 is coming head on at 400 miles per hour, that is a closure speed of 600 miles per hour. Rather jet like if you ask me.
There is actually REAL war footage shot from fighters and bombers in ww2. Looks nothing like this.@@CRAZYHORSE19682003
why are the fighters flying at Mach1?
Looks like it doesn't it. The thing to remember is that the bombers are flying at around 190 mph and the fighters diving on them would be about 400 mph so closing speeds would be close to 600 mph. I think the CGI also makes it look exaggerated somewhat.
Because the fighters were much faster than the b17’s. So from the gunners perspective they’d be going incredibly fast
And they still seem to be flying as fast when passing from rear 3/4 to front... Doesn't look anything like any real footage I've seen...and seems more like an arcade game as opposed to a more ’serious’ flight sim for example.....
Only from frontal, from behind it seems they got little too fast@@nathantudor5763
@@Syncroschannelthe planes fly at 400-500 mph… take into consideration there diving and the bombers flying towards them would make them look extremely fast from a bombers perspective
"You've got a hole in your left wing" XD
imagine all those bullets that are falling from the sky in a fight like this...