J.P. Moreland - Does a Soul Have an Afterlife?
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Is there a soul? Is there an afterlife? The two questions are likely related. No soul, no afterlife. Is there any evidence for either? Any argument? However, the two questions-soul and afterlife-might be separated. A soul but no afterlife? Or an afterlife but no soul? According to science, you cannot have either. But is science the last word?
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James Porter Moreland is an American philosopher, theologian, and Christian apologist. He currently serves as a Distinguished Professor of Philosophy at Talbot School of Theology at Biola University.
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Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
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😂😂 nailed it.
Excellent..
We're here with you brother. Lol.
Honored to be in your company 😁
TRUTH hahahahaha!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have to say he expresses an impressive clarity of viewpoint given the vague nature of the topic. Some of these videos are so abstract I find it challenging to pragmatically understand
This man's mind is sharp.
I agree and disagree, but I really appreciate how concretely he broke it all down. Excellent guest.
🧐Great discussion and topic, J P Moreland impressive, I’m in his corner wish I could explain and speak as well 🤔👍
My thoughts EXACTLY!!!
They need to start with a definition of what they mean by soul.
Unit of consciousness
The fact that one could ask if there is 1 person or 2 for split brains just implies that questions about persons can't be reduced to questions about brains? However, I think the brain-identity camp sees this situation as like Siamese-twins. There are two people and they both control the same body. They can remain in synch, because each can observe what the other is doing through shared sensory systems. If you were to put one hemisphere to sleep and have the other work, when the sleeping one woke up, it would not be in synch vis a vis the memories of the other hemisphere. Dolphins are an interesting case (i.e., hemispheres take turns sleeping). They might always stay in synch, simply because on a hemisphere waking up, it can still "talk" to the other hemisphere. In the split brain case, the hemisphere that stayed awake would have to give a verbal report to have the sleeping one stay in synch. "The self is a simple substance that isn't composed of parts" (or something like that). How is this just not an assertion? The difference between some atheists and some theists vis a vis the soul: the former believes in a mortal soul, whereas the latter does not. That may be the only difference between the two (i.e., they can be identical on morals, aesthetics, etc.)
in the case of spd, each personality seems to be linked to the direction of focus which can only be at only one hemisphere at a time and more often at the one which has been utilized more often than the other...
Singular state being "consciousness" transsends all...from the positive curvature of physical universe to the "feelings" one can manifest through the novel wave of their internal existence.
313 arbitration of sacred spectrum. Each and everyone of you knows exactly what is going on but is playing the game.
@@Micheal313 You are right on the last part. Have you heard about Ludus Amoris?
They are philosophical questions, 100% agree. Examining the physical realm by itself( keyword by itself) can't answer the questions.
I think this is one of those questions that have the answer in itself because it's not formulated in the right way. The answer is yes. The whole purpose of a soul is to survive death. The excuse for the existance of a soul for people that believe in it is only because they need to believe there is life after death. The real question is IS THERE A SOUL?
There is only one Soul in the Universe. There is no 'you' or 'me'; all variety is merged into the absolute unity, the one infinite existence - God. Swami Vivekananda
The video game isn't the same as my game console, the video game correlates within my console when its running the game merely show a bidirectional causal relationship between the two. So far so good. Why this then suddenly becomes a question outside of scientific inquiry eludes me.
Yes. Then again. Is a raindrop not the ocean?
I would absolutely love to believe in the existence of a 'soul' as an entity that exists beyond our brain. I have never seen any evidence of that. I have seen situations of dementia where parents no longer have any recognition of their children or anyone else in their life. I feel that if a soul beyond our brain and body existed, it would not, and could not, be touched or altered by a brain deficit. We certainly imprint our personalities and compassion on other people and they/we retain that after a person passes away. So, the memory of people we love exists in our brains. Even to say that such an entity as a soul or spirit exists, we would say that fully knowing that there is no known plane of existence that such entities would dwell. There is the idea of 'heaven', but it is a theoretical place that whose existence is admittedly taken on faith, not fact.
I think it's arbitrary to say "consciousness is that thing you feel when you wake up from anesthesia". I think that is actually a feeling of consciousness going in and out of a consciously arbitrary physical limbo. My ultimate/fundamental recognition of consciousness transends arbitration itself.
….and why would anyone alive today KNOW the answer to that question?
Contemplation and in depth studies of physics, biology, cosmology and so on. Even then, not everybody gets it. Having a PhD is no guarantee that you understand. Some simple folks without education have a sudden awakening too but for most it is brought on by trauma which makes people stop and think. We don't really think. We are thought things that other people want us to think.
Your question pretty much underscores what philosophy is lol
Consciousness in a mind posture is. Where there is mind there is soul and where there is soul there is mind.
Depending of what you mean as soul 😊
Exactly. There is only one soul hence the eternal life!
@@sven888 Huh? That’s not an explanation.
@@makeracistsafraidagain Yes it is. E is X so not to be alone. Genesis 2:18 my dear ONE. It's all about LOVE as Jesus says in the NT.
I feel this subject matter is far beneath you. thank you for your many great discussions.
I contend that you can indeed tell from the outside that every functioning human has a self. Being a philosophical zombie would not work since there would be no one inside to understand or think. It's the same reason why general AI doesn't work.
😳….great interview & discussion. I have the 2 most important questions though regarding this topic - even though there are some very interesting (even astonishing) comments contributed so far to this vid - I’m enjoying (and sometimes rolling my eyes) at many of the comments & responses….😳….good grief some people just get so pissed off - which seems totally unnecessary. For me, what animates humans seems different than what animates animals, insects, trees/plants, etc. 1) Why is it that humans are apparently the only species on earth who can even debate this question of whether or not there is a “soul” within each of us and what is the nature of it? 2) Why is it that humans apparently are the only species that can design buildings, build cities, create music, organize institutions of higher learning, conduct science, produce art, engineer weapons of war and mass destruction?….and so much more, compared to any other life form on earth? 🤔….the nature of the human “soul” may hold the answers to those questions.
The answer to both of your questions is: Evolution. Btw: Termites create highly complex, air-conditionned cities. And if you listen closely, you can even hear the nightingale performing it's symphony.
@@obiwanduglobi6359 - Perhaps. Micro or macro evo? And yes, termites have even been kind enough to provide my Filipino wife’s relatives’ home in the province with “Aircon” (as they call it), and no electric power is required, so that’s pretty cool. And when the nightingales break out of their same ‘ol same ‘ol performance rut and create some new material - maybe post some KZheads - announce concert tours and sell tickets, I think we’ll be astonished at their rising popularity. 🤔….but wait….they’re not self-aware (as far as we know) - don’t even know of their mortality and inevitable doom, so they probably don’t give a sh!t about their “music” - they just want to find a mate a get it on. They really can’t help themselves.
@@Farsider3955 The distinction between micro- and macroevolution seems to be important only for creationists? Please prove: Nightingales have no self-awareness.
Life is Eternal, the Day-Consciousness is our window to Reality, Day-Consciousness Never sleep, just goes in Circuits, Day/Night and Larger, so, there is No 'after-Life'.
Moreland regarding split-brain cases: "The fact, then, that there is this further question about how many people are there - is there one or two - shows that questions about persons can't be reduced to questions about brains." What? To me it shows exactly the opposite.
Are you saying we are one yet different for good reason?
Robert sometimes I think all my best friends like you and Cosmin and Leo and my Mom are just the people in my mind.
The mind sees differentiation whereas truth is one. However. The purpose why one limits itself as life is love.
...Hello I would like to post a thought. Both of you two gentlemen are special. Well educated and life experiences. When either one of you, including myself pass on, that which makes each of us lay in a casket, only are body Is there. The wonderful Essence which makes each and everyone has moved on into Eternity. No Past, Present, or Future. Our accumulated knowledge, gifts, and other talents are not wasted. We will reside with one another, sharing our combined life gifts and talents with helping each of our brothers and sisters in GOD'S Garden. With all the best of our knowledge helping one another. Absolute True Truth, Peace, & Joy in the Presence of GOD, respectfully, Chuck...captivus brevis...you tube...Blessings...my Brothers...
He feels very self-satisfied with his answers hahah.
We all do don't we?
Copium. Homeboy is very much on the wrong side of 70 … … …
Because he articulates flawlessly like a GPT
No, this guy is great and he knows what he is talking about and his thoughts are like a knife!🙃
Hhahaa smug af😂
In my view, the self is merely the sum and the expression of its own contents, that are biological information (instincts) and acquired information (experiences, beliefs, cultural/family conditioning, traumas and so on). The self is a cognitive container of information stored in the brain as a material phenomenon. We also call this ``personality``. The mind instead is something else. The problem is that the mind is constantly influenced and conditioned by the self. If one masters the skill to become aware of this, he or she can significantly free themselves from their own conditioning.
Why do information based systems seem to always spontaneously generate phenomenon analogous to to cognitive systems? I think if we answer quations like this we can begin to better speculate the nature of human cognition.
The deeper you study fundamental physics, the more you realize that what we call matter looks more an more like some kind of soul. Apparantly all that really exists in the physical world are fields. A field is just a function that assigns numbers to every point in spacetime and is constrained by the equations of physics. If correct then there is no trouble with the spirtual world interacting with the physical world, matter itself is mysterious.
Yes and the so called physical world is mainly empty space!
@@stuford Yes, but what is empty space? Vacuum, what is vacuum? It's not so simple, study quantum field theory. Plus, as stated, the empty space is full of fields. There is one an only one EM field in the universe, believe it or not.
I can understand your point, but it works just as well if you said the same thing and stated there is no soul, based on the same reasoning.
@@dr_shrinker That's fine, no problem with that, this was in response to the argument that is usually made against the soul that it is impossible for non-matter to interact with matter. My point is that whatever matter is, its weird, so anything is possible.
There's no death, only for the observers of what is happening to our bodies. We were all once nuclei, excited within the realm of a star that went supernova. As well do not forget that the earth is accelerating us upward to catch us into it when we fall. These are truths, so i tell you this that there's no death, not in the regard of what your expecting it to be. If what your expecting is nothingness you'll not even be aware of in the first place i mean.
First provide actual evidence that such a thing as a "soul" exists, then move on to whether it survives the death of the body. The question as posed is like asking whether Bigfoot can be 8 ft tall or whether unicorns have pink tails.
@NotSoGullible Yes, those are alternative meanings but not in the context of persisting after death which is of an entity separate from the physical body.
You are seeing thing the other way around (which is natural as it was designed this way). Absolute truth is quite simple really. All complexity not only emerged from the initial singularity but IS the initial singularity. Hence the teachings of Jesus which center around Love.
@NotSoGullible There is no person nor a "soul". There is an illusion of a self, but that is an emergent phenomena that evaporates at death. But even before death the self and our perception of a self can be eroded, specifically by changes to the physical brain. The idea of a persistent soul is just a myth we dreamt up in an attempt to soothe our fear and despair about our own death and the deaths of those we care about. Enjoy the perceptions we have while we live. It's all we have and all there is.
@NotSoGullible I know Pascal's wager. I'd rather live believing what I understand to be true, than pretend to have faith in what I'm certain is false. If there is a God that holds that against me, then I wouldn't respect or worship it anyway.
@@coachafellaprovide evidence that souls do not exist.
Science has absolute and incontrovertible answers about what is measurable. If something can be measured, science is the way to take. BUT nor everything that we know is measurable. That's the problem.
This is an evolution from the genius interrogator and researcher of physics, Professor Khune, to the wonderland of the afterlife. It is said that in ancient Egypt, only the wisest and intelligent people spent their entire lives seeking knowledge of the afterlife. We see the depictions of what their scholars hypothesized in the dank and dusky hidden tombs in the infamous Valley of the Kings in the mountains and deserts of Egypt. We call the seed of our existence a soul and like the soles of our feet, it walks with us all the way through whatever amount of time the fates have allowed us till the last breath we take and the infamous 'death rattle' announcing its departure for its next mission in the known universe.
Very glib. States of consciousness are not analogous to phases of water - they are nit exclusive. We continuously perceive, introspect, will…
He didn’t say it’s analogous to phases of water. He pointed out how water can exist in different states as an example of how other things can exist in different states. That’s not an analogy.
@@rosamorales729 It is.
(2:15) The definition of consciousness is 'ostentive' monstration? What about Demosthenes' "Action! Action! Action!", action is the total opposite of ostensive
Do other animals besides humans all so have souls .because they all so have self awareness?
J.P. Moreland has said in other places that he believes all conscious animals have souls. He thinks souls are necessary for consciousness.
What is a soul?
Does a what have a what?
In which part of the body does the soul exist?
The little toe, which one is a great theological debate.
The whole body.
@@sujok-acupuncture9246 how is that possible? Amputation happens.
It's the other way around really. There is only one Soul or one Self which limits itself as the body so not to be by itself. The purpose of life is love. Cheers brother. Next time around I will buy you a beer.
@@sujok-acupuncture9246 I love your body.
The honourable guest is trying to reinvent the wheel. Same old paradox of separating meaning from the word. It is a pure domain of science now and for which we are struggling to find appropriate language and laws. Thanks for good work Closer To Truth Team.
I don't understand what you are saying but I am grateful You are here Brother.
I simply meant sometimes you need to say you don't know@@sven888
Q: Does the Soul have an afterlife? A: After and before are all Self; Self is deathless, eternal and everlasting.
We’re trying to present the evidence for our beliefs here.
@@makeracistsafraidagain Truth is Self-evident. Besides. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - 1 Corinthians 13:13 NIV. PS: would love to have a beer with you and some good laughs. We are all brothers here. Cheers.
I suspect that a baby kangaroo does not have an afterlife
We are made from the same stuff that makes the stars etc, with one striking difference. Stars, planets, even gases are around for millions or hundreds of millions and billions of years, but we wee mortals live approx 100 years if we are lucky. The way round this is you give a physical body a soul and when that physical body expires, the soul leaves and goes in search of a new ?being among the approx 2 trillion galaxies in our universe. So we do have a similar life span as the stars etc, except ours come in 100 year instalments and are spread across the vastness of an enigmatic universe.
Nothing can be said about after death that about soul in new life. But it seems to me that consciousness is soul and after death consciousness or so called soul has no role to play means dies with body disintegration means absolute death.
I dont want there to be anything after death. But, I'm inclined towards Buddhism, and Buddhism believes in reincarnation into different forms. Perhaps there is unconsciousness, just as there is under anesthesia? But unconsciousness doesn't imply a total ending, unless someone can prove otherwise.
we know we are not even close to solving a scientific issue when there are dozens of divergent strongly held convoluted and untestable explanations (for consciousness in this case).
And herein lies the Truth. The reason of all difference... of different opinions is... well... please read between the lines of genesis two eighteen.
some people have nothing to do so they create these videos , just listen to it but don't process it
Oh puh-leeze. Incidentally, originally in Greek philosophy, ANY living thing had a soul, even plants.
Since energy cannot be created or destroyed, then our energy cannot be destroyed but transformed into whatever. It's a similar concept to the many worlds theory or cyclical universe theory. There is no new energy being created or destroyed for the many worlds or cyclical universe. The unendingness is disturbing.
You know it. Shakti is Shiva and Shiva is Shakti.
No
"Immortal soul" exists only as a thought in the mind, as a concept, a figure of speech. It borrows its reality from our imagination.Its existence is the same as that of a Unicorn.
Well said. The soul does not exist. Humans invented this "concept" (imagination) to better confront the inevitable reality of death. It is related to man's fear of death-of disappearing forever. We give those who have left us a soul, a kind of second existence, because we have the capacity to remember them. But all this is the fruit of the two most important elements of the brain: memory and imagination, which is only possible if the brain stores memories. This theologian truly possesses a remarkable imagination, as evidenced by his nonsensical statements.
Is there is a line of souls somewhere waiting to enter an embryo? Do they have to apply for a particular type of life form or gender? I can imagine one being told - No, last time you lived as a German you did a very bad thing, this time you are going as a Jew so you can experience the other side.
Case closed.
Do we have a soul?
The question assumes a Soul.
It’s just another word for mind/spirit/awareness/self…
There is only one soul. Type in this exact sentence with quotation marks in google. The truth will set you free.
I always find that fascinating, too. People never think to question the very thing they're claiming at the beginning of their premises. They begin as if it's self-evident. It isn't, but somehow their brains are convinced that it's real. I've spoken to people who simply cannot believe that it's any other way, or the souls must exist. But then, when you question that, they are left with an empty sack, begging the question, and falling into circular reasoning.
@@kendrickjahn1261 Exactly! Elves lives are made a misery by ill fitting shoes, the shoe industry point blank refuses to address this issue for purely financial reasons. Greed causes limping agony!
@@mimetype the question is aimed at J.P. Moreland who doesn't deny the existence of a soul to begin with. Thus, the question is not unjustifiably presumptive as you so desperately wish it to be.
To say that the very definition of consciousness has to be onsetensive is as arbitrary as the rest of truth. It's literally the trying to draw consciousness out of a set theory.
Yes when u die in dark souls you are reborn as an undead
By such descriptions even animals ad all life should have a soul. What consciousness is does not come out clearly.i find it very difficult to understand what soul is
'Self', 'consciousness', 'soul' and 'gods' are, like 'time', metaphoric products of the human thinking process and this is why science has insurmountable trouble preparing slides of them for microscopic examination. lol
It is ADORABLE to see religious people justify their idiocy!
Ok. What's your explanation of consciousness? I promise not to call it "adorable," though I might if it justifies your own precious view of reality.
@@TheWeslej Consciousness is just the accumulated actions of neurons and chemicals, simple machinery, no ghost in the machine.
@@corytracy8993 Cute answer. Not that there's any truth in it
Have any of you read Plato? How can you have such a discussion without mentioning the Crito and Phaedo dialogues. The Soul is Life, and Life can never be it's opposite (dead). Just as something can't be so hot, that it is cold, and nothing can be so bright that it is dark, so too Life can never be dead. Death is the disassociation of the body and Soul. The body dies because the Soul (Life) has left, but Life (Soul) itself lives on because the Soul can never be so alive that it dies. This is a retroductive ontological truth because it can be no other way.
Plato is dead. Long live quantum mechanics (superposition).
@@obiwanduglobi6359 bless your little heart. Superposition is the superstition of the failing Cult of Bouncing Particles. It has too many free parameters, an ever growing list of imaginary particles that have never been directly observed, imaginary dark matter, imaginary dark energy, and it's all built upon unfalsifiable premisses. Superposition is just another self contradicting made-up term used by your religious cult for somethings it doesn't understand. The double slit experiment proves the primacy of consciousness. Matter is defined into existence by collapsing the wave function through observation. Consciousness is primal and matter is emergent. The proof is staring you in the face, but you can't admit it because it has been deemed heresy by the Citadel of Science. This is why the Copenhagen Model of Quantum Mechanics is no longer science. It is a religious cult. And, this channel is polluted with it's cult members.
Thank you for your most thoughtful response. Closer to Truth needs to read this.
What an erudite concrete analogies he uses. No wishy wash talk. In my youth, I would have said, "he took your counters and smoked them in his pipe". Descartes had it backwards! I AM, THERFORE I THINK
Yet another expert
The operating.system(software) of a computer is non-physical whereas the computer hardware is physical. The human soul though has an added built in capability of self-directing itself in governing the brain which projects mind and behaviour. Quran assigns the central role to soul-with a built in self directing capacity--in governing behaviour and it is the soul which departs the body (see chapter 89 “The Dawn”) retaining full knowledge of all its deeds performed in the world and shall be reunited with the body on the Day of Resurrection (see chapter 81 “The overthrowing”).
He lost me the moment he said “it isn’t a scientific question”… ALL questions are scientific as science is simply a rigorous methodology of gaining knowledge and not a domain.
As he said “alot of people including yourself are followers of scientism.” Your not open minded to anything else outside your scientific worldview. Science is not equipped with the tools to prove God’s existence.
Would love to hear a comprehensive discussion between Moreland and Sheldrake.
No closer to truth.
Nonsense, he gave zero reasoning, beyond speculation, to conclude that a soul exists. He is simply a Christian apologist who really wants there to be a soul...
Amen to that. The foolishness of these theistic fantasists is easily exposed.
exactly
@NotSoGullible Okay, define it.
What are you talking about? He gave a classic argument for dualism based on the old 'indiscernibility of identicals' principle (whose implication is, if two things were one thing, they would have all properties in common... but since brain states share none of the 3 features of conscious states he mentioned, brains states are not the same as conscious states). Descartes used a similar argument for his dualism... Moreland is just presenting other examples that, if you agree with his phenomenological appeals, are stronger than Descartes' argument... which is often criticized for failing to recognize a thing called 'referential opacity'.
@NotSoGullible Literally and merely descriptive, not a noun. A rose is a noun usually associated with the colour red, a descriptor but there could easily be a yellow rose. Unless you can prove the usage of "soul" as an item, you can't say the item is ... (insert whatever other descriptor, such as black, eternal or after-life)
No bias, please.
Souls exist cuz I really want them to please God Allah buudah etc plz souls plz exist if no soul I just can't and cannot without a soul and etc
A simple mind I think
These dualists sure do get good at semantics in explaining any plausibility of a soul. If anyone wants to listen to a serious thinker, I recommend Daniel Dennett. May he rest in peace.
Did he die?
Dennett is not a serious thinker. He is dead. And his serious thoughts during his lifetime didn’t amount to much.
@toni6379 whatever blows your hair back.
I recommend Donald Hoffman.
🙂🌎⏳🙏♥️
kzhead.info/sun/fbBqn6itrYOIY3A/bejne.htmlfeature=shared Case of remote consciousness after the patient's brain and heart had stopped functioning.
You know it brother.
Fact of the matter my friend, is that this presenter selected this man over dozens of others w better arguments, just to push his own bias. Even the question itself is loaded. We know this presenter is biased. Let me help you w some better researchers : Kenneth Ring, Sharon Cooper, Jim Tucker, Ian Stevenson, Jeffrey Kripal, Diana Pasulka, Garry Nolan, Joseph Burkes, and so many more which acknowledge that whatever it means to be human, goes beyond the meat and bones suit. Get your biased labels out the way and just explore the data.
Do ants go to school ?
Kind of. Apparently ants teach other ants how to find food. What does that have to do with souls?
@@tedgrant2 I guess he did but that doesn't answer my question.
@@ianwaltham1854 Do computers ever get angry ?
@@tedgrant2 You're a very silly man.
@@ianwaltham1854 According to the Catholic Church, a soul is created at conception. At death, the soul has to wait until Jesus returns. At which point it will be judged.
Also. Mkst of the people commenting againt this seem very bitter or hate fueled. Get over it
Hi don't see how you can come too that conclusion. Consciousness is by product of evolution were souls are a man made construct.
Gnosticism has been around since time began. Humankind has been deceived into thinking they have more knowledge than God for a very long time
Gnosticism means understanding that we are one so not sure if I get your drift. But I love your drift regardless brother. I am grateful you are here.
Perhaps a better question: Is Death the seperation of the Soul (Life Force) from the Body?
You can only refer to death of the physical. Spiritual death is non existent and impossible
@@garychartrand7378 Is Death the moment the life force ceases existing in the physical body?
@@johnnytass2111 from an earthly point of view it seems obvious. It is the temporary made up Ego that "dies" when the physical brain ceases. However, the life force is eternal.
At any moment; everything is one. So there cannot be any death. Maybe Jesus realized the same?
Sir J.P. Moreland, I like your mind a lot.
Unable to decide definitely at this time. Both sides fall short.
Bingo
I don’t have to prove a negative. If someone says that we possess a soul… THEY have to do the proving.
@@makeracistsafraidagain Typical Biden voter :/
Perhaps for you. But only because the answer given by science doesn't suit you?
Well it hasnt given an answer @obiwanduglobi6359
Everyone reading this. Soul is production of belief about gods, it has nothing to do with brain or human body.
What you are saying is technically correct, but he did switch between "soul" and "self" as he explained his ideas. This is the "hard problem" of consciousness; how do you get subjective experience from matter? His answer is that there is something extra that is not physical. This is not a scientific position since it cannot be tested or falsified, but then so are every other explanation of consciousness. I personally believe that the self is physical, and so are thoughts, feelings and perceptions, but I cannot demonstrate this scientifically, and neither can anyone else.
False. Belief about gods and the existence of souls are not mutually inclusive.
0:22 Deflected by taking a jab at science, then goes on to talk about obsolete neo-scholastic metaphysics.
Yes, and will go to heaven to meet God.
You are it brother. You are it. Tat Tvam Asi.
Consciousness is purely a biological thing. You die consciousness dies. Humans are animals, don't forget that. Conversationa like this won't take us any where.
I'm interested in your proof that consciousness is a "biological thing." This is precisely the problem. You've not addressed it at all.
@@TheWeslej Let's think it in this way. Take a wolfpack for example, there's an alpha wolf and others follow, the wolves know how to cooperate, hunt and socialize, produce offsprings, are they conscious? I think it would be arrogant to say they are not, maybe you can say have a lower level of consciouness compare to modern humans, but homo sapiens were more or less at the same level a million year ago. So, the question, if wolves have consciousness, do wolves have an afterlife? Now I'm willing to believe there is, for everyone. But we just cannot accept there's nothing after death. And we believe there's an after life full of humans, no wolves.
@@macho8330 Who says there is no afterlife for wolves? Not me! Again, you haven't addressed the hard problem of consciousness, and yet you confidently claim that it's a "biological thing." On what basis?
@@TheWeslej Of course you didn't say it, that would make you look stupid, but also you didn't say wolves have an afterlife, that's enough. BTW you obviously didn't realize consciousness is strictly based on memory capacity, when you lose memory you lose consciousness. And you propose an afterlife you retain memories so you know you are you, where is this fantasy came from? If you don't know how memory and brain functions you can wiki and learn. In which form the memories and cognitive function remains after death? For now it is arrogance plus fantacy, what else?
NDE research is showing that consciousness can exist outside the body and without it having a beating heart.
That's true because cosmic consciousness limits itself (as the bodymind complex) so not to be itself. Cheers brother.
NDE’s are nothing more than hallucinations, if you actually read the studies 50% of those who experience NDE’s aren’t actually in imminent danger or near death. Plus Buddhism is very common have NDE’s of their gods yet Christians also see Jesus, Native American Religions see their “spirits”, Hindu’s see their gods as well it all depends on your religion which means all cannot be true. I’ve done Ketamine for Depression and can say that my experience felt as real as reality but I know it for what it is hallucinations. It has to do with areas of the brain that are deprived of oxygen. Read upon the science before you claim NDE’s are god bc that’s the way to the actual truth.
Lol, what absolute BS. 😅
@@kierenmoore3236 kzhead.info/sun/bMV9pJinmHObiI0/bejne.html
@@kierenmoore3236 We've been waiting for you. And we'll be here for you when you are ready. Unconditionally.
He makes some solid arguments but I'm automatically skeptical of anyone so sure of themselves.
He does not strike me as "so sure of himself", he is quite measured. He'll say things like "if I'm correct, then..."
There's nothing wrong with being skeptical but letting confidence be your barometer for how skeptical you should be makes as much sense as trusting a bus driver who isn't sure which pedal is the brake and which is the accelerator.
@@mugsofmirth8101 Eh... I don't think Andrew is making a claim as to the absolute correctness of the pedal choice. It's a vibe. Homeboy has an "I'm correct about everything I'm saying" vibe that comes across in the tone of voice, the constant nodding, the eyebrows, the mouth shapes, etc. Even it were a topic I had no knowledge of, I would be skeptical of a teacher commenting in such ways.
@@bryanhaney7930 It is the first rule of apologetics. When you start shoveling the BS say it with complete confidence and conviction. See WLC for a perfect example.
How many selves?
There was no evidence of the higgs boson either
We’re carbon-based machines. Deterministic meat-puppets. Deal with it. 😏
Sadly, you are most probably right. It would sure be nice if some of these religious fantasies were correct.
@@tomjackson7755 Perhaps it would be, yes … and perhaps ‘Life’ is a simulation, and the truth is far better than anything they could imagine thousands of years ago … Nobody knows!! We’re all just monkeys wearing clothes … ☺️ (at least, in this simulation … haha)
@@kierenmoore3236 Can you imagine how nice it sounded 2000 years ago to hear stories that if you join our cult that you can go to a place that everything is peaceful and you don't have to starve or work everyday just to get by when you pass. Where every thing is perfect. WOW!!! What a recruiting tool.
@@tomjackson7755 Oh, for sure, bro. Huge carrot 🥕 … Huge stick, too. 🔥 “You can ease my greatest fear (death)?! Where do I sign?!!”
@@kierenmoore3236 yes because you're an indoctrinated sheep. Everything you do is determined and fully programmed by your social engineers. 😂
If you're thinking that your soul is an invisible ghost that lives in your body and can leave it after death with your personal consciousness intact-- there is no such thing.
Well documented NDE's would seem to say otherwise. Regardless, I'm curious about how you justify your certitude, or is it only religious people who have to be humble in claims?
@@TheWeslej There are no "documented" NDEs-- only anecdotes, the same "evidence" presented by true believers in extraterrestrial aliens, Bigfoot, astrology and seances.
@@TheWeslej There are no well documented NDEs, only anecdotes, myths, fantasies and accounts of dreams. If your mind could actually leave your body and still see, hear and think, you could design an experiment to prove it, but you can't. And you can't explain how anyone could see, hear or think without eyes, ears or a brain.
He lost me at "scientism". Science is not dogma.
Materialism can be a form of dogma
@@markreed2563 ok well science has very little to say on that as the nature of consciouness has yet to be explained. So why bring that up? The appologist said 'scientism'.
Science meant Jnana just a few centuries ago. People are too caught up in fragmentary seeing whereas all is one and the same. So you are right.
@@ngcastronerd4791 Learn the difference between science and scientism. You're embarrassing yourself.
@@mugsofmirth8101 i know the difference. Its why I pointed it out in the first place.
Life and death do not exist
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. There’s ZERO evidence of souls. It’s childish, wishful thinking of people afraid to die and think they have a special path in the universe. You have to have failed epistemology in order to even entertain the idea.
Are all th4e NDEs ZERO evidence?
@@nicholash8021 are your dreams real. did you fly at night or visited your dead grandma. No.
@@nicholash8021 They are just evidence for our brain going crazy when it's set under extreme stress. Nobody ever came back. Incidentally, the resurrection story is missing in the oldest artefacts of the Gospel of Mark. The story ends before the empty tomb. Interesting, isn't it?
@@TrivoMarjanovic It doesn't explain the how those who left their body in a surgery room and described things that they saw in other rooms and out of sight. One of my closest friends is a heart surgeon who has seen this a few times. One of his stories includes a Muslim man who met Jesus and instantly converted upon coming back to life.
@@nicholash8021 YES. You can trigger NDE like experiences by touching the brain with electric stimulation. You can also trigger NDE - like experiences by consuming certain drugs. You can trigger NDE-like experiences by doing meditation. Its all in your brain!
Ask Jiddu Krishnamurti. He knows the answer. 😅❤
Please, for the love of God - get a new title writer. Seriously.
Your comment comes most closer to truth.
What about consciousness of animals? If consciousness is equal to soul, then all animals have souls. The real question would be: does soul exist? Who cares (at least for now) if it is or is not immortal/has an afterlife: let's decide whether or not soul does exist. My answer to this question is obvious albeit implicit.
Since animals do not have language and 'the self' is a linguistic construct and only selfs can be conscious, animals cannot be conscious. This conclusion may contradict the life long intuition of many but as you know, intuitions are not guaranteed to correspond with actuality. As a child, I had the strongest intuition that 'life' was contingent on a magic spark. I still feel a bit embarrassed before my self, at the supreme confidence I had in my certain understanding, before courses in physics, chemistry and biology allowed me to realize the 'life is a process' actuality. Does soul exist? This is the right question. The existence of a soul is not demonstrable and there is no evidence for it so it seems to 'me' very likely that soul is a product of ancient imagination, a meme indoctrinated down through the generations within a subset(s) of human cultures. (It seems to me very likely that the ancients had good reason to believe that souls existed. This good reason may have been that in their total ignorance of the difference between hallucination and normal experience, their hallucinations of the voices of their dead parents would have convinced them of their parents continued but invisible existence. Please see Julian Jaynes' great book, "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" for details of the theory from which this thought has been copied). Cheers!
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL You are implying that human consciousness is an effect of our upright stature, which helped modeling the morphology of our larynx, which allows us to be able to articulate words. Interesting. Maybe our soul is in our vertebral column?
A soul... no such thing.
Yeah right
Wrong
@@timsnyder8431 Prove it.
What does the soul do when it becomes brain damaged?
That is an interesting question. Supposedly we are conscious while healthy, then unconscious (or far less conscious when we have brain damage) then conscious again when we die? I can only draw an analogy to my first memories of childhood where it seemed that I became more conscious with age, particularly from 2 to 5 years old.
It will depend on extent of brain damage. It the brain is heavyly damaged , then the brain - body coordination is lost and the person may go into coma. If the damage is not severe then the patient may be concious and can also assist in full recovery of his self. But it's not necessary that the slightly damaged brain recovers to normal structure and function. Some Other part of brain takes over the functioning.
My theory is that the brain is how the soul connects to the physical world. When the brain is damaged the link between the soul and the physical world is distorted. The soul is still intact, but the connection is bad.
That's kinda like asking what does a guitar player do during a live performance when his guitar strings break and there is no other guitar or replacement strings present?
@@Greg-xs5py That wouldn’t explain personality change in the slightest. Maybe it could explain physical impairment but definitely not personality wise.
There is no soul,there is no afterlife.....a wishfull figment of the imaginations of people who can not face the reality of death and their ultimate oblivion....a lack of courage.....
How can you state this conclusively? Have you solved this age-old conundrum on your own? Do tell!
Inccorect.
A discussion based on nonsense
Like your comment?
@@rosamorales729 - haha - a comment is not a discussion
@@Kopernikan your comment is not a discussion, but it is nonsense.
@@rosamorales729 - point me to a compelling argument of Plantinga’s. He’s absurdly overrated. Example: this long, utterly vacuous talk. The average HS teacher can do as well or better - kzhead.info/sun/m5ykZrR8j6RjaqM/bejne.htmlsi=pDep5vzBl7m4emSy
@@rosamorales729 He's not wrong. Almost all of philosophy is nonsense piled on nonsense. It is why religions live there.