The Truth About Titanium Bikes
Titanium bikes have been getting a lot of press recently, both good and bad, and having had the chance to ride the Reilly Cycleworks T325D for the past few months I wanted to share some of my thoughts. Is it what it's cracked up to be, or have the marketing teams got carried away?
This video is not sponsored, but Reilly did send me the bike.
Bike (Reilly T325D): geni.us/reilly-t325D
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Instagram - / grantritchie
Strava - / strava
My day job is running a creative studio, if you're interested in branding, websites or content then hit us up - www.studioyoke.co.uk/
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Road Bike 1: Canyon Endurace CF SL 8.0
Road Bike 2: Reilly T325D Titanium
Gravel Bike: Canondale Topstone
Wheels: Hunt
GPS Cycling Computer: Wahoo Element Bolt
Road Shoes: Lake CX332
Gravel Shoes: Quoc Gran Tourer
Helmet: POC Omne Air Spin
Clothes: Universal Colours / Maap / Rapha
Turbo Trainer: Wahoo Kickr
Nutrition: Styrkr (Use code 'GRANTRITCHIE' for 25% off)
The small camera I use: geni.us/small_camera
The big camera I use: geni.us/big_camer
The mount I use for cycling: geni.us/my-mount
#cycling ##bike #titanium
Great discussion in the comments on this one, really enjoying reading about everyone's experiences!!
To be honest, i dont notice ride quality differences between frame materials at all. Tires and seatpost seem to be the only things that matter.
Yup. As soon as tires migrated up to 28 and 30mm with wider internal width rims, bike frame material became immaterial.
Pssst, you're too honest!
yep
My Litespeed titanium rides nice and smooth, but my Cannondale CAAD10 aluminum rides smooth too.
Seatpost? Hm, I never really considered seatpost all too much
Bought a custom titanium frame from Waltly last year and have already ridden it well over 5000km. Absolutely love it, and don't regret for a moment getting it over a similarly priced carbon bike. Nothing beats the look of a raw titanium bike to me, and it's comfortable to ride and still nice and speedy despite being a bit heavier than a carbon bike would be. I should also note that while Waltly does full custom titanium frames, they do so at a price that is very close to accessible (my frame, including carbon fork and titanium seatpost and stem, was a total of US$1250).
It's NOT raw Titanium, all Titanium bike frames are a mixture of Titanium and other alloy like Aluminum. It's a big scam, Carbon is a far better material and it's also a lot lighter
@@robbiddlecombe8392Titanium is inferior to Carbon Fiber in every metric. You have to be really stupid to buy into the lies about Titanium, you are better off with a cheap Aluminum bike if you really want metal
@@kinghadu9611 alloying of metals is a scam now? 😂
@@kinghadu9611 Raw means unpainted
Re cost: yes Ti frames can be costly (Moots; Baum etc) but one can find good deals from Litespeed and Lynskey, both are reputable Ti brands that do in-house welding and have a genuine sense of heritage and craftsmanship.
Had an S3 and S5 Cervelo and I was happy. I then purchased a Vamoots CRD and I do not see myself going back to Carbon anytime soon.
I agree that titanium alloy is best material for bicycle frames. If the tubing wall thickness is not too thin and properly welded the frames should last many lifetimes of use. There is a reason why Moots titanium frames are warrantied for the lifetime of the original purchaser.
Having 2 Ti bikes the first one over 27 years old you never go back, yes it's all about the ride on rough roads it's great. Save your money and every 10 years upgrade your components
I did that. Here’s my ‘07 Serotta custom Legend Ti; recently upgraded with DA 10 speed, Enve fork. New Hed wheels coming this summer.
Would you recommend titanium like Lynsey over parley, canyon or specialised for long term investment?
In 2017 or 2018 Planet X partnered with master framebuilder Mark Reilly of Reilly cycle works in Brighton (where your bike comes from). Mark (who sadly passed away in 2021 at age 53) designed three different frames, their road frame (Spitfire) their endurance frame (Hurricane) and their Gravel frame (Tempest). The frames themselves were created by the Walty factory in China. Planet X only appear to still make the Tempest but I suspect that their current road offering in titanium will still be heavily based on the Hurricane frame as the Spitfire design didn't have disc brakes. Ribble also source titanium frames from Walty. They aren't cheap but I wouldn't put them at the expensive bracket either. I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend these frames to anyone thinking of trying titanium. I've had a spitfire since 2018 and the only thing that holds it back is me :)
Nice video Grant! You're a natural to camera
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I have a Ti Fly Team 29er from Motobecane that I bought over 15 years ago and is still so awesome to swing a leg over and just enjoy the ride. I’ve had multiple carbon mtbs and road bikes and have also sold a few of them too. But I just can’t give up the Ti Motobecane, I love it!
Just bought the new Le Champion TI Disc Team. I'm coming off an aluminum road bike and gravel bike, and so far I have to say I'm impressed. The ride is smooth on 28s even with an aluminum seat post. The bike is awesome though...no proprietary parts and set up to take 40s in the front and 50s in the back making it easy to turn into a gravel adventure rig. The only downside is the weight, which is pretty comparable to an aluminum road bike. That said, I'm willing to eat the extra weight if it means the bike will last and look good for ages.
Great video. I’ve owned a Lynskey R300 gravel bike for a few years now and agree with everything you have said about titanium. Its a total pleasure to ride and maintain.
I'd love to try one some day. Only way to know for sure. I agree they look nice. No way I would get one painted. I'm happy with my carbon bikes, though. My favorite road bike (Yoeleo R12) has tires that measure 30 mm on my wheels, and it is gloriously comfortable. So much of comfort comes down to fit, geometry and tires.
I don't yet own a titanium bike but love the classic look it enables without compromising functionality. I'm glad you made a big deal of it. My ideal 'anything bike' is a titanium frame gearbox belt drive drop bar gravel bike.
I have a beautiful Ti road bike built in 2012 by Jim Kish (Kish Fabrication.) It's a work of art and I love riding it, but unfortunately, it's already a relic of the past as high end, mechanical rim brake groupset parts are already getting hard to find. Not being able to make upgrades is a real problem.
Ti looks stunning. I ride a Carbon gravel bike and I do love it. Ti was just outta my range. If I put my eco warrior helmet on, Carbon is not recycled and won’t last a lifetime, so I guess there will be millions of frames going into landfill..
You pass on a titanium frame to the next generation, a carbon frame gets micro-cracks and is then hazardous waste ...
All diffrent material has pros and minus. The frame is only one part. Put a 3 kg wheelset on a superduperlight carbon frame its no fun to ride. Its the combination of all that makes a bike in harmony. Stiff, snappy or smooth. When the smile is there whilst Riding, happy days!
The timeless aspect of the frame is true, but, as years go on, mounting and brackets change. You can't really take a titanium frame from the 90s and fit it with disk brakes. I mean you can somehow I'm sure, but no ones going to be doing that. Also, and this goes for your watch too, people like buying stuff. Part of the enjoyment of owning bikes is getting new bikes. I have owned and sold many bikes in my life, and I continue to do so because I enjoy it.
Yea some good points here!
You expressed my concern much better than I did, and I have much less experience.
If you want to do a restomod (on a 90's bike), I see your argument. But if you don't have a problem with caliper brakes, then you'll get all the spare parts you need, even today. All the classic standards were valid for decades before things took a turn in a direction that became confusing.
I've a bike with Ti main tubes and it is wonderful. One thing you didn't mention is that Ti is very difficult to weld hence it is more expensive to work with than both steel and aluminium.
I have a carbon and a Ti: I'm a happy man😜 Didn't get the argument of corrosion though. Are alu and carbon corrosive? Ti, for me, stands for Timeless
Love your enthusiasm for the bike. It is beautiful, hope you get your own soon enough
The fact that you can just rub off those little marks is a game changer!
I have the same titanium bike for 14 Years Not a overly expensive, I have used hope Headset just cleaned and greased it over the years its close to 50000 miles on it over the years, 4 sets off wheels and 2 group sets, i run 25mm tyres and even at over 60 there is no need for fatter tyres its smooth and look forward to ridding it latter on this year.
I have an anodized alu frame. It's anodized all the way through. I wish that was more popular because I think it's great. No oxidation happening, looks good and wears more nicely than paint.
What brand? Only very cheap or very expensive frames are anodised. This is because production faults can't be hidden. On the cheap ones the faults showing don't matter. On an expensive one the production methods have to be perfect.
@@davidpalk5010 It's a Stevens P1.18. They have very basic colors and are just media blasted before anodizing. Not the fancy high gloss anodizing you see on components.
Great video! If you look at the Ti bike as a long-term investment, is it really expensive? I don't race. I still ride my 1998 Gary Fisher, made from 4130 chrome-moly steel. I use it as an occasional commuter, and for short rides when I only have an hour or so. I upgraded the fork years ago. Combining the fork with 2" or 50mm slicks, the bike makes my local multi-use path feel like freshly paved asphalt. There is something to be said about a bike which will last 20+ years! I'm seriously considering purchasing a Ti gravel bike as possibly the last gravel/road bike I will purchase.
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3 ti steeds in my stable and they're completely bullet-proof. All over 20 yrs old and crafted by one trustworthy welder ("Vail Cycle Works"). The skinny-tubed road frame has over 100k miles and is sublimely smooth. The somewhat stouter-tubed MTB and Cross soft tail frames also have tens of thousands of hours on them and thanks to their pivotless micro suspension, possess incredible damping qualities on trails. Only original parts are some nicely-faded Chris King headsets. Ti forever!
Mind sharing actual tube dimensions on that road frame?
Any chance you'd get a 4th with disc brake?? I assume since it's 20+ years old, it doesn't have disc brakes...
@@Raytrac3d Top Tube is 1 1/8", Seat & Down Tubes are 1 1/4". Seat Stays are slender bladed shape, Chain Stays round but somewhat ovalized. 58cm frame with compact geo / aggressively sloped, etc...yields a LONG 27.2 seatpost, (adding to the comfort factor). Plenty of riders might find the results too "soft" but while there is certainly some initial flex when stomping full power, it tends to stiffen up under increased load. I grew up riding Reynolds 531 frames, (Bob Jacksons, etc), in the UK, and the ride qualities are very similar. For a lean lanky rider, skinny Ti is sublimely smooth!
@@letmein218I'm so emotionally attached to it, a diisc version is unattainable as the builder (Jack Rossman) is no longer in biz, (incredible frames but never much discovered and he ended up making a better living as city of Vail water works engineer). I'm too scared to pay even a guru like Steve Potts to weld disc tabs on, as the risk of heat-stress is simply too high. Luckily I'm in NorCal, 90+% of my road rides are dry.... latest gen shimano calipers with Kool Stop red pads (paired with machined aluminum rims) work beautifully for all our gnarly roads. Cross and MTB bikes do enjoy hydro front discs with XTR V brakes on tbe back (great combo for my needs).
I was pleasantly surprised to see you hit the nail on the head, that there's nothing magically comfy about titanium, it's bike design that has the biggest impact. Titanium is actually almost identical to Alu in characteristics but titanium is more expensive and cool so it gets better press
That's true: Slender duralunimiun Vitus bikes from the 80's were some of the comfiest and most supple frames ever built (vs all the harsh-riding, oversized alloy models). Same with titanium; skinnier tube profiles yield an ultra plush ride whereas stiffer oversized ti frames aren't nearly as smooth. Not enough attention is paid to such obvious differences in design. Material is only a small part of the equation - tubing diameters play a much bigger role.
I have a Salsa Colossal Titanium road bike with 28mm tires and it is a comfortable riding bike on the road. However, on rougher roads my much cheaper ($420 in 2004) titanium Royce Union mountain bike with 26' x 2" Schwalbe Marathon tires rides much smoother. I also have a 2018 Motobecane hardtail mountain bike with 27.5 x 2.8" tires (with inner tubes). When these tires are inflated to 40 Psi the ride is somewhat harsh on gravel roads and when inflated to 30 Psi the ride is so much smoother on gravel. My experience is that higher volume tires affect ride comfort on road bikes more than the frame material and seat posts. I will never sell my titanium bikes because they look beautiful and because of their corrosion resistance.
I love my titanium bike that I have had for over 12 years purchased from a cycle shop in Harrogate
i think many people ride Ti because they're durable against crashes, abrasions, corrosion, and rust, also they're just bling, not necessarily for performance.
Ti certainly isn't durable against crashes.
I have an unexplainable obsession with titanium that will influence big purchases for many years to come
When it comes down to road frames Titanium is the material of choice for the winter road bike.
I’ve never had nor would want a carbon frame so I can’t compare. I do have a Moots Vamoots titanium bike and I like it. It’s not as comfortable as my steel bike and I have no doubt that both will outlast me. Steel isn’t fragile!
I have owned a Reilly Gradient gravel bike for nearly four years and well over 7,000 miles now. It's been used as a commuter, a winter bike, wet road rides, I've done gravel sportives on it. It's still my favourite bike and if I could only keep one, it'd be the Reilly.
Big statement! Amazing to hear your experience. What is it that makes the Reilly your favourite?
@@grantritchie It feels special every time I ride it. I've pretty much thrown every kind of weather condition and surface at it, and it's just soaked them all up. It's fast enough that I can keep up with all but the fastest riders in my club, yet it'll happily venture off road onto some pretty gnarly tracks. In my hypothetical scenario, I'd have a set of road wheels and a set of gravel wheels and just swap them out as required. Also, I just love the way it looks!
The standard of titanium is critical. 4:2.5 Ti with butted tubing provides the best ride. 6:4 Ti is stronger but not as flexible so harsher ride. The strength to weight ration of Ti is very similar to top end steel bike frames. But because of the difficulty of working Ti some 4 times the expense.
what saddle is that
I appreciate the longevity aspect of titanium, but my fear is that I will want another bike long before the titanium frame is not good enough to be used (if it can happen). Sure I will be able to sell the titanium bike and its longevity will be an advantage to sell it, but I hope that other than the fact that the frame is titanium, all the other aspects of the bike won't be so out of date/fashion that I won't be able to sell it. At the moment I am content with my cheap aluminium bike and I intake experience and kilometers. Maybe one day I'll hop on a titanium bike.
Longevity, yes, but it reminds me that over the last decades it was never the frame (steel, aluminum) that was the reason to dispose a (commuting) bike at a recycling facility. It always were all the other components that wear down heavily after several winters. Not only would the replacement of all those components be more expensive than a new bike, a big problem is that after 10 or 20 years it becomes more and more difficult to get those old components as they were replaced by newer generations. And then another reason to switch to a new bike or frame over time time is technological progress. E.g. for my commuting bike the invention of dynamo hubs and hydraulic brakes were a welcomed safety improvement like 30 years ago. For the road bike industry the understanding that wider tires are better and disc brakes more safe requires new frames as well. And in the next 10 or 20 years there will be other inventions that will make a lot of people ditching their current bike or frame (doesn't matter if carbon, titanium, alu, ...) for something newer. And by the way, carbon frames don't age either, they might be more fragile at some point, but typically they are much stronger and can't be easily deformed like metals can. Without crashing, carbon frames should last forever as well. You mentioned the directional strength of carbon as a disadvantage. Actually it can be used as an advantage as well: compliance in one direction, stiffness in the other direction.
I am lucky enough to own two Titanium SEROTTA's and LOVE them and will never get rid of them
A material property that I think was overlooked here that adds to the longevity of titanium bikes is it fatigue limits. Materials like carbon and aluminum wear out over time with cyclical loads (pedaling) where titanium is better here. The life expectancy of an aluminum or carbon frame is only expected to be 5-10 years on average where titanium frames, as mentioned, can last a lifetime. I think carbons weight and rigidity makes is a higher performance material when it comes to racing, but if racing is not the goal, and you want to purchase 1 bike for your whole life, titanium is likely worth the investment.
im an reular biker and do not know much about bike...the only thing i like about the titanium is its beautiful...i also like stainless....polished aluminim is also beautiful but they have a clear coating that deteriorates
From my experience tire size , air pressure used , have a bigger influence to ride experience than frame material . Having said that if money is no object than buy a ti bike for it's cosmetic appearance and longevity !!
That’s a beautiful machine, as mentioned raw titanium is hard to beat, perhaps only an intricate carbon lay can come close. However you did not really address the biggest factor that essentially invalidates titanium bikes - steel. It has comparable ride qualities (and depending on who you ask, superior) and a much lower cost. The weight penalty is largely irrelevant unless you’re a professional rider (in which case carbon is your only option) and the reality regarding corrosion resistance only applies if you were to use either material as a winter hack. Realistically your nice steel/titanium bike would be saved for better seasons.
How is it "hype" when Titanium has been used and admired as a bike frame material longer than carbon?
I have a Vaast MAGNESIUM frame and it’s incredible. 3 years of hard use and no corrosion and cheap material. Rides like a dream. And it have a Titanium bike I never ride anymore because it won’t fit wider than 25 mm tires. So I say don’t buy a “forever bike” no matter what the material, because it’ll be out of date compared to newer bike advancements in a soon as 10 years.
Damn, they sent you a bike to a channel with only 5k subscribers? Not hating. Just seems like something that would happen to a WAY larger channel that would get more views.
Views aren’t everything
Ti bike best for flat. for climb i feel it not as fast like Carbon bike. this is what i feel, i compare long term use 2 material. my conclusion Ti not as agile as carbon for climbing ride. but for longevity i no doubt this Ti will still remain even after i died.
If you have a Ti bike with a carbon fork, you have a 70% Ti bike.
Looks good, lasts long and is easy to recycle. Nothing wrong with titanium.
lol no one mentioning the cost.
Never had a problem with corrosion on my alu or carbon bikes. My alu mountain bike is 40 years old. Have several friends who found their titanium bikes didnt last a lifetime. Cracked ti frames are not rare. Having cracked a carbon frame my prefence is now alu. I'm not paying carbon money for alu weight. Agree what you say about frame design which if why I think the cheqper end ti bikes just dont cut it, sorry planet X.
Cracked titanium frames are almost always due to their weld quality, (or lack of). Many of the legacy ti builders ended up becoming popular to the point where they hired less-than-best / inexperienced welders. Small batch individual builders maintained far higher weld quality due to the time and care taken by true artisans who are attentive to their craft.
Great video dont fall for the marketing hype
Thanks 👌🏻
Don’t send the bike back! Find a way to buy it and pass it down with your watch. You will get years of enjoyment and time does slip by if you wait.
cost.....
What accent is it?
lol
Except your electronic groupset and hydraulic brakes aren't timeless.
It’s true, but we can’t predict what’s going to happen there
Are we looking 10-15 years? If it is then thats good enough right?
There are some promising technological discoveries from one ukrainian titanium manufacturer. Well, Ukraine is one of the major titanium manufacturers, but I remember watching couple of years ago a bunch of interviews of the founder of "Velta" company who claimed that they have developed 10 times cheaper method of making metallic titanium. I even found their promotional video in english, there's the moment where their founder claims that they are going to make cheap titanium a reality: kzhead.info/sun/mtSkptuDiIukpqs/bejne.html I don't really know the exact state of their technological breakthrough, but that guy seemed like someone actually into technological breakthrough rather than just into grabbing certain economic sector. The thing is that right now most of our titanium manufacturing is in the hand of some very shady oligarch, who is hiding in Austria from american prosecution. This young company, on the other hand, had some issue with their quarry with the farming company who owned the land, but now we have fixed that problem with "amber law" (it was written as if it was for amber, but it's actually not).
As someone with a Ti bike I can honestly say I don't need this kind of negativity in my life. Having a Ti bike is 100% of my personality.
Love the honesty!
How was I negative? 😅
That's it? Nothing else?
@@grantritchiewas thinking the same.
It put 200k miles on my Ti bike before I threw it on lifetime trainer duty. I decided to keep the boredom inside. It's 2024 and titanium has little benefit beyond people needing custom geometry and wanting somewhat low weight
Felt like glorified aluminum in my experience looks nice though
I've had lots of bike in my 51 years but I never changed bikes because I wore it out, I changed it because it was old fashioned or outdated. Saying a titanium bike is going to last forever and is an investment is purely marketing. I've seen steal go, headsets and stems change downtube shifters change to electronic gears not to mention how disk brakes rendered every bike I have obsolete pretty much overnight. People who ride classic bikes do so once a year at a specialist event but have modern bikes for every other day. So you will ride titanium bike until it is obsolete or embarrassingly outdated and you will sell it for a fraction of it's original price to purchase whatever bike the industry and your clubmates tells you to.
All Titanium bike frames are a mixture of Titanium and other alloy like Aluminum, they are NOT pure Titanium It's a big scam, Carbon is a far better material and it's also a lot lighter
It’s not a scam, because it is pretty clear for almost everyone. Pure titanium is to flexible. Carbon an titanium both has both their advantages and disadvantages. Carbon is a bit lighter (it’s not that much for a person who is not willing to compete in serious races), can have aero shapes and is a bit more comfortable. Therefore titanium is a bit more resistant, can be recycled and could be repaired.
@@dustinschulz5707Vast majority of "Titanium" bike frames are trash, they are weaker than Aluminum and will crack at the welds, the titanium this guy talks about which will "last longer than Carbon" are the frames which cost $5000 USD
@@kinghadu9611 Maybe the us market differs from the European in this case. For a high quality frame from Asia you would have to pay about 2300€ (including a carbon fork) and for 3000 to 4000€ you get high quality made in Europe frames, with a lifetime warranty. Of course you could spend more, but you don’t have to. I mean this is still more expensive than a good carbon frame, but therefore you get the advantages mentioned before.
Clickers remorse. A better title would be, "my personal opinion on titanium frames".
Indient vare about the comfort Or other claims Or whatever, i just like the looks of titanium bikes
schlll
Hydrogen embrittlement
The day I dont care about weight and speed, I may consider titanium.
I wish most titanium bike makers didn't supply carbon forks ,It's the first thing I changed on mine .
The truth is that they are slow lol
I’ve set a bunch of pb’s on this bike 😉
There's a difference between strength and stiffness. Very different things. The review is a waste of time. Most of what you have stated is simply wrong.
Meh. I've owned between 400 and 500 road bikes over the years (I flip high end bikes) and I've ridden a lot of them... sometimes just for a ride or two... sometimes for weeks... sometimes for months... sometimes for years. And I'll take a carbon bike over a titanium one just about any day--especially a modern carbon bike--a modern AERO carbon bike. My Fuji Transonic for example is one of the most comfortable and aero bikes I've ever ridden. I love it. There's nothing it doesn't do well. And it will last as long or longer than a Ti bike will. (I've known several people who have had their Ti frames crack on them... sometimes on the weld (which is usually fixable though rarely pretty)--and sometimes in the tubing itself... which is generally NOT fixable--unless you don't mind riding around on a Frankenbike. Don't over-think it. Buy a bike, ride it, if it's not doing it for you--or gets stolen or crashed--buy another bike and try that one. But if your bike, generally is functioning as it should... just be happy with it--whatever material it is made of--and go ride.
Love my Ti steed 😎