Have We Really Domesticated the Cat?
Are cats really our pets? And have we fully domesticated the cat? What might that tell us about our connection with nature?
Archaeologists recognise the domestication of animals as one of the most important transitions in human history. Join us as we deep dive into the surprising and fun world of domesticated animals.
Featuring:
Professor Adam Brumm from Griffith University and KZheadr Julian O’Shea who break down the concepts and help us understand animals (and history) better.
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00:00 Have we fully domesticated the cat?
01:52 Domestication vs Taming
02:42 History of animal domestication
03:35 Impact of cities on animal behaviour
03:51 Dogs vs Cats
#griffithuniversity #cats #dogs #domestication #archaeology
We haven't domesticated cats, cats have domesticated us
It would be a cool story to read from an Alien perspective that cats are the dominant species on Earth.
Dogs have owners, cats have personal servents.
Truer words have never been spoken 👏
@@billsanders5067 facts.
Amen!!! Preach it Sista!!!!!!!
Thousands of years ago in Egypt cats were worshiped as gods, cats have not forgotten this!
I heard that once before, this was (many ?) years ago.
I came here to say this.
They do like to be worshiped!
Ha I use this all the time!! ;)
I love the idea cats allowed us to have the belief we domesticated them.
Cat: "I'll allow it."
Have cats domesticated humans?
@@patlynch6517 TBF, the OP said 'domesticated, not 'civilised'.
My cat is a wild animal masquerading as a pet. He's pretty good at it.
You are the one your cat has domesticated.
My cats are semi-domesticated, and they can teleport. I leave them downstairs, I walk upstairs, and I find them already there.
Because cats master black magic, they either friend or enemy of Satan. That's why they're seen as both demons and sometimes Gods in ancient times.
Most of my cats seem to have perceived me as a possession to be trained to be a valuable & willing servant. I have been so well trained, I leap up to serve at the slightest meow.
😄 likewise with my kitties
This is as it should be. 😀
Dog have owners, cats have personal servents.
Mine doesn’t even bother to meow…
My cat comes when he’s called, is mega clingy, never begs or lurks for food, never destroys a single thing...and gets constantly bullied by my much younger rabbit. The latter has also rudely stolen a piece of chicken right out of my hand and ran off with it. I’ve never seen a rabbit look more disgusted and disappointed in my entire life, and my poor well behaved and bewildered cat witnessed it all forlornly. Do with that information what you will 😂👍🏻
My rabbit is the same way, he bosses my three cars around, has taken food out of my hand and ran away with it, works with one of my cats to kick food of the counter and they share it. And every time he pees on the floor he makes sure to look right at me when he does it
@@marymartin8763 oh my lawd my rabbit would never be that naughty thank god ToT I think food stealing was a one time thing purely because the one time he stole it was chicken which he obviously can’t eat and he was like “what is this trash” 😂🥲👍🏻 but omg cooperating to steal food would be a pain to deal with 💀 I’m sure there are lots of helpful channels here for cats (like Jackson Galaxy) if you need, but you could check out Lennon the Bunny for useful tips on how to train your rabbit (if you haven’t already), I’ve been using her videos for guidance a lot lately ^_^
@@berry7usagii I love Jackson galaxy and Lennon! My rabbit is just... idk he can be trained to a point, he uses the litter box a majority of the time (and he always either takes out the litter and puts it in the floor or he falls asleep in there) and if he pees on the floor it’s only in front of closed doors like my front door and closet 😂 he’s just mad he doesn’t have access to everything. But yes the cooperation with food stealing is a pain in the ass
Anecdotal evidence.
Your cat is a beta
My cat is a workhorse he keeps the feed barn under watch from 5am and doesn't come back in until 10 11 o'clock at night. He's dedicated to his job and has created little cemeteries all over the property, he even sorts them by species. He's not going to cuddle with you but always stays within the humans orbit he likes being around you and he's a hard worker. Where I live barn cats are a necessity. He even escorts the chickens and protects them. When a hawk is out he'll heard them back into the lower coup and he's super mean he'll take on anything in the summer when the apple trees are dropping I've caught him twice not giving ground to a black bear. I've heard it described as cats only identify 3 things prey, predator and cats. People to them are just big cats
Mini lions
Your cat is almost identical to the original wild cats that realized human granaries with their mice treasure were a great food source if they could just overcome their instinctive aversion to humans, so they gradually began domesticating themselves. This resulted in a standard roughly 30% reduction in brain suze which let them overcome fear of us. They adopted us. Then they bred with other cats around granaries also able to tolerate humans. Self selection. They adopted us just like they do today often. Your cat is incredibly lucky to be able to live so naturally for how they evolved.
Exactly. Cats go feral in just one generation if not raised around humans. The only reason they stay tame in a household setting is because they have adopted us as their new parent cat, and they stay is a stage of adolescence and never truly become adults as far as behavior goes, an adult cat behavior wise is feral. Feral animals will cooperate, as long as one of them is not in the food chain as the other, and sometimes even if the animal is in the food chain, as long as the predator isn't hungry, they won't eat the prey animal and will help it out temporarily. The so-called 'house-cat' is different, if the animal is a prey animal it usually will kill if 'for fun', like humans hunt for sport. House cats are the most efficient predator on the planet other than humans.
@@noname-ll2vk Yes, right on the money.
@@JDStone20 not quite. Domestic cats are genetically domesticated. Their brains and gut adapted to living with and often even bonding with humans. A feral cat is still domesticated and if you get an 8 week old feral kitten it will be the same as a housecat. If you try adopting a genetically pure wildcat it will hate you in most cases. Like trying to adopt a wolf cub. But if that wildcat cross bred with a domestic cat the kittens can probably tolerate humans. I don't believe it's accepted that they view you as a parent anymore than a pig or chicken sees you that way. I think it's more that early human socialization simply makes them able to be comfortable around us. Cats are really interesting very little actual science has been done with them compared with dogs. I think they see us more like an odd interspecies kind of friend or comrade maybe?
Humans and bees have more of a symbiotic relationship than a domestication one.
You haven’t come across the African honeybee if you think bees haven’t been domesticated 😂
The highest that a cat will ever see a human as is "roommate".
Cats are like house spiders or house geckos. They've evolved to the point where they do best living alongside humans. But I wouldn't call them domesticated, they've just got a unique niche. This is because we didn't really guide their adaption to us at all. They took up with us.
They are domesticated
I'd love a 'house gecko', but I fear it wouldn't survive a British summer (defined as that part of a year when the rain is slightly warmer) ... never mind a winter.🦎
The reality is and they have proven it, is that cats think we are bigger cats like lions and tigers but are docile and harmless and utilizing our resources helps them. To be a Feral wild cat is a hard life. So living with us gives them a long life.
I just love when my cats greet me when I came back from work. That's all matter.. Doesn't care who domesticated who 😅
A Vet that I have known and respected for years doesn't believe they are a truly domesticated animal. I think he may be correct, they co-habitate and tolerate us for what we provide.
Its a symbiotic relationship
At least one of my cats isn’t fully domesticated. She much prefers living outside and only comes back to beg for food. I try to keep her inside cause I worry about coyotes hurting her, but if she wants to leave it’s impossible to stop her.
My cat is a feral cat that followed me home one day. She's well behaved and extremely affectionate. Cats are an example of wildlife diversity in behavior per individual. It's harder to define the temperament of a whole species, but easier to gage the temperament of an individual. Some cats prefer to be outdoors and less sociable, while others enjoy affection especially from humans.
Ah so the cat distribution system chose you
I see cats as being domesticated in the same way as pigs are. Let Wilbur and Peppa loose to breed in the wild, and their first litter will be no different than wild hogs - tusks on the males, longer, thicker hair on the shoulders and back, and very aggressive temperaments.
Still, pigs are deeply domesticated. We have gone as far as influencing their reproduction cycle. Not to mention most pigs are not wary of human strangers. Compared to cats, their physiology is hardly changed and cats are generally not immediately friendly to strangers or at least half of them. I think chickens are a closer example. In some places in South East Asia where all domestic chickens came from, the chickens there are almost identical to the wild jungle fowl except they can't fly.
We domesticated animals with our love. When they ask us for food, we feed them. When they come to us for help, we help them. Domestication is when these understandings translate into their genetic evolutionary expectations. All Cat People know that kittens are domesticated by bonding. This bonding is an evolutionary predisposition to accept food and aid from humans.
That's taming
I think our issue is expecting animals to just follow everything we say, as if they aren’t their own conscious city and demons and expecting everything to act like a dog. We don’t own nature we are a part of it.
Instead of showing footage of a wild tiger, a very different feline, the video should have shown the indistinguishable African Wild Cat (Felis Sylvestre) from which all house cats came from.
Cat’s are not our equals ... we are their willing partners
Tell that to my kitty - she has me trained perfectly, what she wants I immediately oblige
I think cats and humans have more of a symbiotic relationship than one of domestication. Think abt it they kill our pests and we give them food and shelter. Cats don’t behave like domesticated animals they just behave like animals that choose to like us.
I personally believe that animals with lifelong symbiotic relationships probably form attachments with each other similar to how we feel about our pets and they feel about us
@@drpigglesnuudelworte5209 Cats are domesticated, end of.
@@Dr.Ian-Plect Brilliant argument, well put. That is that I suppose!
@@edkrzywdzinski9121 Do you disagree?
@@Dr.Ian-Plect Sarcasm isn't your strong suit is it?
Places like Gobekli Tepe are proving that our history goes back further than we thought. I bet our history with domesticating dogs goes back further than 10,000 years.
way further
The first problem is the core of this video. Your question is incorrect. We didn't domesticate cats. They domesticated us. WE come when they cry. We groom them and clean up after them. We make sure they are happy and comfortable. They tell us if, when and where we are allowed to touch them. We worshipped them. They domesticated us.
Your owner told you to type that.
@@chaosopher23 They didn't need to. I am a good servant. I would never trouble them with such trifles.
A cat is not a pet. It's a co-dweller. John Wayne put it best in the movie True Grit; "Oh, he's not my cat. You don't own a cat. He just rooms with me because we kinda like each other."
In our house, we are our cat's humans. We obey him completely.
Dogs have owners, cats have personal servents.
I got a 14 yo half blind and hobbling cat. She can still climb fences and do Acrobatic stuff but she always bumps into the same chair everytime. Crazy creatures
Our address is similar to the local humane society so we are always getting people here asking if we are the humane society. That also means people are always dumping theirs cats near our house which is very upsetting. We try to get a hold of the cats and bring them to the humane society but the thing I notice is how quickly the cats we can’t capture become feral. We adopted a main coon male cat who someone abandoned about eight years ago and while I can’t pet him, we can’t get him inside, he allows me to feed him and he rubs against me in thanks. It’s obvious he was once a pet but it’s also amazing how fast cats go feral.
I have two neutered males, litter mates. I have never treated them like people. They're not my "fur babies", I'm their two legged bald cat. When one gets irritrd with the other, he'll hiss and give him a slap. I never hit them, but I hiss just like they do if they get on my nerves. The result: no zoomies ever, they love belly rubs, they sleep belly up in front of me all the time. I live in a quiet neighbourhood and in the summer I leave the back door open so they can come and go as they like. They're the coolest roommates I've ever had.
The other complication with the question of "are cats domesticated?" is that even with the cats we have had a lot of influence on in terms of breeding - we have very intentionally kept many of the wild traits. We find those wild traits useful and fun and cute. So - sort of domesticated and sort of just tamed and habituated to human co-habitation.
baby cat comes when i call him most of the time because he loves me
i force my cat to be my best friend, he’s a quarantine cat so he was in my room with me 24/7. now he sits like a human so i can clip his nails, he cries but lets me shower him. he doesn’t get a choice and he only likes to be carried like a baby lol. 😂
That’s dope bro
cool! you gave them separation anxiety and forced the cat to depend on you! so cute and totally not shitty. AND he doesn't get a choice? wow. depriving an individualistic animal of individuality!
@@irisdaniels2318 Who cares
@humanfighter6251 its just a denial of a cat's natural behaviors.
@@irisdaniels2318 Cats are different and adapt to their surroundings. If anything outdoor cats are more in danger than his.
My cat comes when she called. And she’s super chill she hasn’t torn up anything in the house.
So, one slogs through your video only to find a very iffy conclusion in the final few seconds. A victory of ads over content.
My cats sometimes come when called, sometimes not, and the only reasons they ever come is because they are humgry would call me anyway. For the rest, these 2 just travel all the way around the neighbourhood and occasionally come back for food or just cuz they feel like it.
Great video, this should get at least 10 times the views it has rn
My cats love me tremendously. When I went on a 2 week vacation I had mom feed them right, but when I got back, they could not stop loving on me, so it;s more than food they crave, they are family and crave attention and cuddles as well.
Random fact - we did have domestic Cheetahs for a while, using them for hunting. There are saddles with Cheetah seats behind the rider. Silkworms are also a dometic species, unable to survive in the wild as the moths can barely fly and the grubs are so large they'd starve foraging natural leaves , so are reliant on humans giving them enough food.
Yeah! Those little rascals are totally wild, while pretending to be domestic!
Me and my cat own each other. We simply belong together.
Domestication is a two way street. The cats i have owned have changed me, I've changed them - I feel that they own me to some degree, because Pocus can communicate his needs to me and I answer them like the good human I am.. (I have specific examples of this.) . It is a very affectionate relationship, at least, in my house.
One of the big differences between cats and other animals is that unaltered cat behaviour is much more compatible with human behaviour than wolves, for example. Cats are less domesticated because they don't need to be as domesticated to fit into human life.
no they domesticated us I think lol
In ancient times people used to consider cats to be sacred, they haven't forgotten this
❤❤❤❤very interesting video thanks
KITTIES ARE MINI TIGERS THEY PLAY WITH YOU AND THEY BITE YOU AT THE SAME TIME SO CUTE SO WILD SO SWEET SO FUNNY!!!❤
Anyone who’s taken in a stray knows these are mutually-beneficial living arrangements. They get free food and board, and we get gratitude and cute.
Cats still Debate weather they have Domesticated the Humans , or not !
Cat says: “Let me be clear, i am not your pet, you are mine”
Domestication affected genes for behavior in animals, making them less aggressive. Well, this does not apply to cats, because if a cat does not have direct contact with humans in the first weeks of life, it is very difficult for them to not be feral cats. That doesn't happen with dogs. You can tame a stray dog in a day
1:38 excuse me? Spider caves? No thank you.
Hearing that cats are still somewhat wild animals makes me want a cat even more.
The oldest known domestication of cats appears to be on Cyprus at some 6 thousand years. Cats have been found in burials there.
you forgot the huge domestication of food, which we have massively changed and altered
Fascinating🤔.
Wife and I are older and adopted a five year old Mau-Tabby mix cat that we both deeply love. She is very "peculiar" with a strong personality..... even for a cat. My gut feeling is cats are not domesticated but in fact have learned to train humans to best meet their needs. And I'm good with that!
One way to answer this question is to look at how wild i.e big cats and humans interact when the cat has been brought up by or habituated to humans. In this case there is no evolutionary change influencing to their behaviour. There is lots of material on KZhead (Lion Whisperer, Luna the Pantera etc). The behaviour of the ex-wild cats is almost identical to that of the "domesticated" cat. Vocalisations seem to be the only difference.
What I find fascinating is how we domesticated ourselves. And how our genes seem to indicate this began as early as 600,000 years ago, which is twice as long as our species has existed. So there may never have been a homo sapiens that wasn't domesticated. This raises other questions for me. How exactly does this present via neotony in ways that might not be obvious? Sure, our faces remain flat and our brow ridges relatively unpronounced, despite our primate cousins losing these features as they mature. But what about our behavior? Would we not appreciate humor as much had we not domesticated ourselves? Would we be more inclined to use violence? How would an undomesticated homo sapiens approach in-group and out-group social dynamics? We're a Peter Pan species whose members never actually reach full maturity. We never actually grow up and that's arguably a very good thing. It's goddamn fascinating!
I wonder if a better dividing line between animals would be whether the animal still has the instincts and body-type to survive in its native wild habitat again. Many goats and pigs, hair-sheep, and most cats go feral easily, and even thrive, in the right location. They still have enough wild instincts to know how to find shelter, water, prey, and can give birth unaided, etc. Some cow-breeds, dogs, fowl, and horses will go feral as well; others can't. Sometimes this isn't lack of instinct, but because of body changes. Many wool sheep can't stay feral for long because of their need to be sheared. Of course, going along this line of thinking, some humans can still survive in the wild, but most of us can't.
The old saw has it: “ Dogs have masters: cats have staff “
Does no one read Kipling anymore? "It's all explained in Just So Stories "The cat who walked by himself"
Finally!!!! Someone is saying the truth!! Thank you!
Maybe not truly pets, But definitely a family member. Family member that does its own thing and joins family events once in a blue moon.
Legend has it that cats domesticated humans
To my knowledge donestication ccompletes when the animal evolves to have lower adrenaline levels than its wold counterpart. Becomes calmer and more tolerant. It shows in looks, but do not necessarily in tricks or select socialisation paterns. Since you can pet the cat most of the times instead of getting scratched the cat is domestic.
Why did Prof. Brumm's shirt have to go so hard tough
Imagine if we had domesticated apes and crocodiles like dogs... that would be dope
I got my tomcat as a kitten to be a ratter and the sire of my farm cats. He was from a long line of Suburban Pets and while he is a good ratter and my little Queenie is quite in love with him, he is an absolute Snugglepuss! By contrast, Queenie is from a line of farm cats. When I first got her, she was half wild and actually bit me when I first picked her up (OUCH!!!). However, since then I have made friends with her, and like I said, she loves our Tom! I think we all regard each other as being friends, rather than "I'm the Human and I've DOMESTICATED YOU!!!" Queenie hardly ever comes for cuddles (although she enjoys pats and ear scritches), but Tom seems to regard cuddles as being his Born Right! So there you go. That's how Cat Society works at our place.
That is kinda true. But what that actually means is that the divide between the domestic and wild animals is kinda artificial. We don't really need an animal to be fully domesticated to become a good pet. And if an animal is fully domesticated, like silkworms, that means that it relies heavily on the professionalism of humans who work with them. Unlike cats, who are pretty self-sustaining in many ways. We can and do tame a lot of wild animals, and they may become the great pets, if the tamer is good at his job. And if the tamer is bad - then even the nicest breed of dogs might become overly aggressive or anxious.
Guinea pigs were domesticated as livestock, not as pets. Same as rabbits. People depending on mostly subsistence farming tend not feed any pets, only livestock and hunting helpers. Cats may be still wild animals at heart. But dogs are then also wild animals at heart (exempt maybe some unhealthy breeds) - they can run wild and survive (and breed) on their own.
My cat loves to cuddle but she also loves food....
The domestic cat is changed from its wild cousins in losing its fear of us. There can be no question that it is perfect at what it is, a slaughterer of small creatures. That has not changed. Cats figured that we were not going to eat them, and we had plenty of hiding places for them from raptor birds. .
I would whistle and my cat would run to me.
I met a kitten in the parking lotwho was one day old or something and he was with an orange cat and ive basically taken over their food & medical, but fear fir them bith in hit days...the kitten comes in at night and came in yesterday during heat
Honeybees I would say aren't really domesticated. If a female bee escapes from a beekeeper's apiary, she will do what a "wild" queen does find some crevass in a tree, rock, or building and start founding a new hive. Same if a person captures a "wild" queen and puts her in an apiary, she make hive there.
no in the sense that they think they take care of me. they yell in the morning to make sure i'm ip and alive, they attempt to lick me back to health if i'm sick. to them i'm the oversized pet. but they also think i'm a wizard of some sort who controls fire, water, and makes cat food and meat appear out of thin air.
i have cats for 30 years , had one time 45 cats . last 10 years ongly 3 , and till today am pretty sure am a good pet for my cats
I think Humans have been taming animals as long as they have been here
The elephants you showed while discussing the domestication of elephants in Asia were actually African elephants. African elephants are the ones with the large, fan-like ears. 😊 The ears of Asian elephants are much smaller.
There are a lot of different cat breeds. They're just not as varied as different dog breeds
Cats are simply smaller Lions, tigers, cheetahs etc. Anyone can also have those big cats as pets except you probably won't just get scratches when it plays with you.
Whatever the answer is about the relationship is in my house with my 2 girls… I wouldn’t trade it for al the gold in the world! - no matter how one sided they can be at times
Dogs know it is YOUR house. YOUR car. YOUR sofa. These things are true. Afterall, YOU pay the bills. Cats seem to think you are the somewhat inept live in help.
We humans rule the world, but our cats, most properly, rule us! We were conquered by the gentlest strategy of all, the charm offensive! I don’t mind being a slave to my cats, we love and need each other. What’s good for them is good for me. There is only one rule for people in my house: Don’t disturb the cats!
There is a poltergeist element to my cat. Neatly folded and stored blankets end up in a pile on the floor.
0:07 Well maybe your cat doesn't come when called. Mine is deaf and comes when asked(with sign language).
At the end, was anyone else recommended the video "Are humans domesticated?"
I like to adopt and care for older cats, and any cat that lives into their teens is bound to be a smart cat. They are certainly smart enough to know you are doing them a big favour by giving them a home. So they are about as domesticated as you can get, but only in the fact they like the lazy retirement life.
Aha, I see what you did with the cheetah there...
yeah if they refuse boiled salmon and prefer canned cat food. and catnip
nice but i didnt learn anything though and the question was never answered...
We've domesticated cats as much as the cats want. I think it's a perfect situation.
My cat is my human qualifier.
Pretty crude categories deployed in this video: cats as controllers of small animals unwanted by humans is obviously part of it the bond. Human friends can be useful to us, but also we like hanging out with them, so we need a category like that for animals (what's wrong with "friends"?) Modern pastoralists make a distinction between working dogs and pet dogs, but they can get pretty fond of their working dogs, even if they're not let into the house.
We don’t own cats they own us. Heheh
Depends on where and when...in pre Columbian Andean civilisations guinnea pigs were kept as live stock.
I dont think ots really accurate to point solely at genetic divergence as whether or not an animal is domesticated, or at least, its not accurate to use dogs or cattle as the baseline comparison. Of course when you compare how differrmt a dog is from a wolf, to the difference between a house cat and wild cat, you see more divergence in the dog. This isnt purely domestication though, as humans have been modifying dogs for thousands of years, and cats never really got th at treatment. Cats are extremely efficient at hunting small vermin, and while we have over time bred dogs to fill that niche cats are just already evolved for it, so there was never any need to change them. Theres clearly some difference between cats and their wild cousins, so I think its safe to say they are domesticated.
We are their pets.
Cats are hoyse tigers, they are not dimesticated, they are only acostumized to be near humans, and the only that maje them relatively innofensive is their small size, but they are wild