SALADIN RARDEN. When Alvis decided to kitbash a car.
2023 ж. 20 Сәу.
38 566 Рет қаралды
Today’s video is going to cover the Saladin R concept from Alvis
This vehicle aimed at export for the middle east took the turret from the scimitar or fox and plonked it more or less on the Saladin. - armed with a 30mm Rarden gun with a 2-man crew it was designed for a variety of roles.
Although a nice shiny brochure was made, none were ever sold and the vehicle was forgotten about. Figured it might be good to dig it out for those who like the off weelies and model makers looking for something weird but legit to make.
#Alvis #Saladin #rarden #fv601 #armouredvehicle #armoured #Tanks #MilitaryVehicles #fredsmum #rare #experimental #wheels #30mm #weapons #british
We had a saladin next to our parade square.....few of us got drunk one Cambrai and pushed it onto the square....all ready for the parade the next day.....RSM wasnt happy!
Somehow the addition of the CVR(T) turret makes the Saladin look so much better - futuristic vibes especially in the image at around 2:27. Great video as always, Ed!
Happen to see you here, love your vids, very good material to study for my own pursuits.
Looks more like a CVRW Fox turret rather than a CVRT Scimitar one.
Cone of Arc sent me here, I can’t believe I hadn’t heard of your channel before. Can’t wait to watch so many well researched vehicles
"...who had a firm grasp on producing the unneeded..." I swear, even if this channel didn't offer a wealth of information about obscure vehicles, brilliant writing alone would still warrant a subscription.
If I saw them trying to tack Swingfire onto a Morris Minor I would be in no way surprised.
The old Saladin was one of the first vehicles to see service in the Gulf War with Kuwait. Did quite well apparently.
I've seen a video (It might still be up) where two Kuwaiti Saladins are holding off Iraqi forces.
@@ptonpc yes that's right. Others crossed into Saudi and came back with the allied force. Really good kit and the gun with the squash head could take on anything tank or infantry. Fast too.
@@gunner678 Good to hear some survived.
@@gunner678 I remember seeing two or three Saladins firing on the news at the time. I didn't know any retreated to Saudi and went back in. Thank you for that. I had a lot of family who served in various parts of the Arab world at different times and places. They all had a very similar opinion of the Arabs. Glad to remember that not all conform to the generalization however true the generalization may be.
@@cyngaethlestan8859 Quite a bit of the Kuwaiti army pulled across the Saudi border in good order, after giving a good account for themselves defending Kuwait. Very professional bunch. It's a shame they've been completely forgotten by everyone.
Armored cars are among my favorite military vehicles, especially the 6x6 and 8x8 types.
Cool vehicle if a little range limited, somehow seems to make more sense than the fox ,which suffered from instability problems, definitely an excellent "what if" project . Thanks for bringing this one up 👍
I simply like hearing about projects that simply don't have much available info. If an hour long dive into the details of something is a full meal, things like this are perfect little snacks.
I think the Saladin R at the time frame in question would have made a fantastic afv. The only thing that would have improved it would have been powered traverse I think. I'm not a huge wheeled afv fan but Saladin was a nice looking vehicle.
Wonderful little vehicle by the sounds of it, shame it wasn't adopted and the CVR(T) turret makes it look better, superb stuff as always!
Had them in Cyprus in the early eighties. Very good vehicle. Ideal for our landing craft .
Given the number of export versions come up, I wonder how many times, if any, the home nation has looked at the export type and said 'yeah, we'll have that too'.
Thanks for this. I'm glad I've discovered your channel. Very informative.
Sexy beast. Why do such vehicles make me think of Thunderbirds? 🤔
Another superb,informative video. Thank you
All I ask is that you turn up the gain on your microphone. A lot. I literally have to turn my phone's volume to maximum to listen to these great videos.
Cone of Arc sent me. Good stuff
Noice video as always, thanks for your hard work!
I actually tried this almost as soon as I had a 1/76th Scimitar and Saladin in my paws, but I came to the conclusion that the Scimitar turret looked "lost" on the big Saladin hull and it would be be better (more room for the crew!) to put the RARDEN gun into the Saladin turret. Never actually got around to it though: it's somewhere on the list of 200+ what-if projects I'm about 5% of the way through...
Well then, TIL of a new Saladin variant I aint seen before! Really glad you brought it to light though now you got me thinking about kitbashing CVRT and saladin 1/35 scale models together.... oh lord.
Thank you for this fine, informative vid
why did they bother with fox when this looks better and could go round corners better.
my attempts at kit-bashing have never been this good!
It is a shame it was never produced as it looked like a very useful version and a good support version for the 76mm cannon armed Saladin. A good Saladin in any version is needed in the modeling community in 1/76- 1/72 scales. Thanks for sharing this.
I think Airfix produced the JB models version for a while, Tamiya did a 1/35 version but I don't know if either are still current, I have both☺ and wonderful little models they are and have always been a favorite after a KOSB one showed up with two Ferrets at our school, do that today and you would have all the PC nannies wetting themselves.
To be honest, it looks better than the Fox. The Fox was a great idea in theory, but of course the Rarden was just a bit too much gun for the 4x4. I suppose the German approach of using 20mm on everything would have been easier! I really liked the concept of the Saladin & Saracen pairing (and of course the related Salamander & Stalwart), and it’s a shame we didn’t do something similar in the 1980s, instead of Saxon. While the Saxon is often unfairly criticised, having a new multi-role 6x6 family would have been great.
nice, just when WG kitbashed their own medium tank with wheels
Interesting little design.
Very interesting concept
The Saladen that could have been.
Nice Vehicle the Saladin.
I can remember seeing these in N.Ireland in the 70s rare sighting
I never knew this existed ,but always wondered"why not"??
Likewise, I thought once or twice about how the FV432 had a turret plonked on it with the RARDEN, how the Sabre came about from fox and thought to myself "how come there was no attempt to plonk 1 of these on the Saladin to extend its life a bit too?". Interesting to see the concept did exist.
@@mitchverr9330 And Saladin was a far more stable platform than the woeful "Fox"
We should have took a leaf out of the IDF book,and modernised our platforms instead of going for foreign sales
I had the old Tamiya's model, for those days was a nice one, it's a pity that this version wasn't build, perhaps with some modern improvments would've fared well as counter-insurgency/support vehicle.
Do you do anything on the WW2 Humber Heavy scout car?
They made an early and brief appearance in Northern Ireland too
I've always wondered what an updated version of the Saladin would be like.
Google "Anglo Engineering Concepts Ræcc". That would be the closest thing I can think of. AEC are sadly a design exercise rather than a real company trying to get off the ground but the guy behind it is an ex-Alvis engineer with good bonafides and all the concepts they've come up with are grounded in actual AFV design principles and existing technology.
Another inspiration for Warthunder developers? Thank you for an interesting video.
Tbh this machine seems so much better than the Ratels
Would have been vastly more successful than Fox, probably not tipping over on side slopes. Saladin production was severely impacted by the need to supply Saracen, a modern light APC to Malaysian forces, while also trying to get them into Kenya, where the main issue was lack of maintenance and repair facilities to accommodate the chassis. By the time foreign deliveries were possible in large numbers, the moment had passed, a pity, because like the Hawker Hunter, and Ferret, probably throw in Centurion, second hand refurbished versions of these vehicles were gold on the International market, making money for some, just not rewarding the original designers and manufacturers. The deployment of Saracen in Malaysia saw a likeiy pattern of employment mirrored all around the place, where the Saracen was used with the dreadfully dated Staghound, because we had them, cheap, and the mobility issues weren’t too much of a factor as armoured cars were not used in a direct assault role, more as oversight, being a Counter insurgent campaign. As an aside, my Fathers’ mate was in 3RAR over in Singapore back then, and I once asked him what was the best part, the best thing about the Saracen ? He replied “the Bren mounted on the roof, at the back.” Funny ? No, practical. He stated all vehicles make noise, the Commies would hear them coming, wait until the vehicle passed, then attack the least protected bit, it’s arse end. The Bren was deterrent to this tactic. Other than that, he called them a range target, because as an Infantry soldier, you can’t hide unseen inside a moving steel box. He felt that APCs were best at keeping mud from getting into the boots of Infantry, and stated that for long moves across country, aircraft and helicopters were preferred by the Diggers. Don’t forget, ANZAC DAY, 25th, KAPYONG DAY Korea, 24th April, where The Third Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment, 3RAR , earned The Swimming Pool, US Presidental Unit Citation, and became nicknamed ‘Old Faithful’, and rightly named the very best Infantry unit in the world. Lest We Forget.
Nice vid, thanks - love the look of this and the Fox.. Any chance of doing something on the M109 A2 in British service during the 80s? Thanks again and keep up the good work!
Is an episode on the Pipsqueak a possibility?
yeah i got to dig out the pipsquak full reports, there are some fiign trials, moutn setc. hopefully with images. fingers crossed - if so there will be a more detailed vid, always down to if there are images tbh, as walls of text are not fun viewing
@@armouredarchives8867 Huzzah!
Not sure about what advantage this would have over the Fox. More stable, I guess. I also love how Alvis in the brochure writes their name as "Al-Vis" to make it sound Arabic.
Put this thing in War Thunder. Id love to see how well it does. In fact id love to see any Saladin in that game
when the TA upgraded to CVRT from Fox what else could the excellent 30mm cannon turrets be used on, an interesting idea for all those third world country's we sold the Saladin to. The gun is so good they even found a way to mount it on the 1960's FV432 variants whose motor hatches were still in place.
Imagine something like this with more modern Depleted Uranium rounds.
Jesus Christ, 170 mm of penetration from a 40 mm gun? Simply ridiculous.
For the era in which the Saladin R was proposed, yes. The Swedish Combat Vehicle 90 that entered Swedish Army service in the mid-1990s used advanced 40mm ammo that had even greater penetrating power.
That’s a Fox turret rather than a Scimitar turret.
I was just about to post that , defo Fox turret . Scimitar was multi faceted with lots of welds
@@martinrose2833 I have both turrets next to each other in my shed 👍🏻
Yeah it hough that too - they wrote scimmy. - i wonder if they changed their mind at some point and never fixed the brochure? - wont be the first time. - i stuck with that was written, but ty for confirming
As there ever an armed version of the Stalwart?
the stolly yes. one with a battery of swingfire missiles in it
@@armouredarchives8867 Very interesting, thanks.
That Wagon wher in use off the germn borderuard in the 50s bevor the German infrantry ws formed, ther was aseldom note on the thin it was buy in resition to assist the GB industri , they was not realusefuel ,it wa soon sold to near east one stay for museal use , just thos had no aircondition , i gue all went scrap.
The Saladin with the 90 mm gun, is that the version that will be used by Wargamming? Now that the line has been revealed are you allowed to share your information with us?
yup the sally with the 90mm Kenerga gun is one of them, but the rest they have made a mess of so im workign on a rant vid now
Think you're find its a modified Fox turret and not a Scimitar.
Was this turret used on anything else?
Variations of it on CVR(w)Fox, CVR(t) sabre & scimitar
@@TheAg812 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant the exact turret. From a modellers point of view getting the exact one is needed.
@@jameslawrie3807 ah, sorry James. If it’s any help it’s really a turret lifted from a Fox
I always wondered if the Rardenwas to be a gun or a joke.
Good gun
Wargaming: introducing the new Lynx SR: a British captured lynx 6x6 modified to have a 3 shot 75mm autoloader and goes 65mph either direction (satire... Till they really do it)
Thank you another great video. If there is one out there I guess we may see it pop up in Ukraine.
How did someone arrive at 189 rounds? Ignore the divisible by 3 answers please - why not 180 or 210?😮😊
Because 189 fits and it would be a real bugger if you only had 180 and you needed another 9 to do the job. First rule of battle, carry as much ammo as you can.
Its hard to sell things when others are giving them away for free (US and USSR military assistance)...
If they had just made it bigger, they could have had the world's first AFV.
Send these to Ukraine