Flying yourself to France - You need to know this
There are new border processes pilots need to follow when flying on international flights. General Aviation Reports can now be submitted using S-GAR, but what is it and how do you use it?
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The SGAR submission page;
www.submit-general-aviation-r...
SGAR guidance page:
www.gov.uk/government/publica...
List of French airfields where I have typically cleared customs and their notice periods correct at 28/4/24 - check their AIP for up to date information and the email address to submit your passport details to.
Le Touquet - 0800-1800 UTC - No Notice
Calais - 2 hours notice B4 ETA required
Deauville - Mon-Fri 24 hours notice required, Weekend/Holiday 48 Hours notice required
Cherbourg - Mon-Fri 24 hours notice required, Weekend/Holiday 48 hours notice required
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Great video as ever John. Thanks again for your humble approach to enhancing GA. In the last couple of days I had my first use of GAR since the new legislation. It was interesting on the return... Yesterday I flew back from LFAT, with a flight plan and GAR submitted as per instruction for return to EGBE (Coventry). I put Lydd and Lashenden down as divert options. I ended up diverting to Lydd and on arrival, their reception phoned ATC to cancel my flight plan and called customs. Customs duly turned up to inform me that they were working out the new rules and this was the first time they had to handle a divert case since the new rules came into force. The customs officers were polite and professional to deal with, but phoned supervisors for advice on how to handle. They then informed me that I should have phoned the Emergency GAR telephone number prior to diverting. Make of that what you will , as I can't imagine digging out a phone number and trying to call them when scudding around low level and positioning for an unplanned rejoin! As it was, on this occasion, the lead customs officer explained that he wouldn't be applying civil penalties (wtf!) as he accepted my explanation of inclement weather and having to divert for flight safety reasons. On reading the GAR instructions it doesn't say that you MUST call the emergency GAR phone number in the event of a diversion, but you CAN call it. I think the truth is the Customs are still working out this unnecessary piece of bureaucracy, but as pilots we can't go wrong by calling the Emergency GAR phone number immediately after landing, especially in the event of a divert.I believe customs needs to better understand the practical realities faced by general aviation, particularly regarding weather conditions. The current approach could lead to dangerous decisions in the air, driven by the fear of potential legal consequences rather than safety considerations.
Gosh, this makes me really angry. They shouldn't be bullying and threatening you for the safe decision you made. Do they bully the captains of airlines who divert? No. The guidance says "If, due to bad weather or technical issues, a flight is forced to change its arrival location in-flight, the following process may be followed: Provided it is practicable to do so, the change may be notified to the NCU[footnote 6] by calling +44 300 123 2012. If this is not possible, the pilot must divert to the alternative customs and excise designated aerodrome specified on the flight plan. Flights which the pilot is required to notify in accordance with the Terrorism Act 2000 must use the alternative police designated aerodrome specified on the flight plan. If circumstances mean the pilot is unable to divert to the alternative customs or police designated aerodrome specified on the flight plan, the pilot must redirect to the nearest available airfield, submit a new report and contact local Border Force on arrival. Under no circumstances will I feel compelled to call the NCU in flight, especially in poor weather. Furthermore, it is actually against the law to use a telephone in flight under the mobile communications on board aircraft regulations. If you're a member of AOPA can you report this to them please, or if you're not, would you be prepared for me to pass this information onto them?
"They then informed me that I should have phoned the Emergency GAR telephone number prior to diverting." You could point out that the mobile network is not licensed for aeronautical use and no one should be attempting to make a phone call from a plane, even if they had the time or a passenger to do it. It is not just the "practical reallities of flying" but the legal aspects of spectrum licensing. The spectrum allocated to mobile phones is in the "land mobile" category, not in the aeronautical category. Regardless of whether people fly around with a phone switched on, it is not lawful to require a phone call from the air. They would lose that argument in court. What might make more sense is if when you notified atc of the diversion, they then informed customs ...
@@itsverygreen532 All good points, but I'm sure you'll understand that I wasn't too keen on goading a polite customs officer with logical argument given he'd said he wouldn't be pursuing action. I thought it better to close out the matter, slip away and then educate the community. Clearly, had the officer decided to take civil action then I'm not sure they would have had a leg to stand on once I'd undertaken the inevitable challenge.
When you come back just use a small dinghy, no customs no paper work or passport no flight plan etc.
Great video. What a Brexit bonus faff about. Talking about taking a system and breaking it 🙄 Bumped into you at the Cirrus stand in Friedrichshafen and was looking forward to the quickest of chats…unfortunately I had to take a call. Another time perhaps! Hope you had a successful show! Happy landings!
Useful video! I can now see they included the clarification "Given name If you have a middle name, you must include it here." but only for the reponsible person.
Thanks for the guide Jon 👍😊
Great video, I enjoyed the real time flight in the background :)
Great journey, good advice for cross-border travel and recent changes (thank you), and what a lovely family, hope the trip was amazing (I guess I'll find out when part 2 lands!)
Looks like a fun trip! ❤ The paperwork reminds me of flying across the Canada-U.S. border. It looks intimidating at first. Then you actually do it and you wonder what all the fuss was about. The U.S. web site (eAPIS) is horrible. Flying to Canada you phone in your Customs declaration.
It was so much easier here until our citizenry stupidly voted for Brexit.
Would be interested to know how that all works one day.
Thank you for your thorough explanation!
You're welcome.
Great video guys, nice little trip!
Thanks Ben.
Great video John. I first did this as an FI over 20 years ago in the days of faxes! We did several trips to Lognes, some as part of the students' PPL course. I put the fuel I need + diversion + 10%, I don't just fill it up to the max. Went to Ostend many times as well, another great destination.
Fuel is quite expensive in France at the moment, plus I get duty drawback on everything I take over with me. So it made sense on economy grounds while still being within performance limitations.
Very useful as I plan to do my first channel crossing at some point when the weather allows!
You might be waiting a bit longer!
Thank you for the video! I will be flying from Calais to Goodwood next week and your video confirms the bureaucratic procedures we need to follow.
Which would you say has a worse bureaucratic deep state? UK, France or other?
It's all to stop the boats...which it won't.
Thankyou xx
God I taxi past your plane most weekends at Redhill just found your channel I’m normally in VL. Nice videos keep it up
Just watched it again and saw the takeoff. Thank the lord for good maths.. you did use up that runway.
Great Vid. I have not been there for about five years, customs were so horrible to me and my daughter last time when they did not get a copy of my Gar forwared to them, although i had a copy in my hand with fax code printed on it!
Thanks for the video. Very informative. L2K is my local airfield.
And what a great place it is.
So happy the Brits got their sovereignty back ;-) #brexit
Did they? You mean that Klaus Schwab and David Cameron and their WEF chums have dropped dead?
This video has come at a perfect time as I'm planning my first ever trip from Redhill to the continent. Look forward to this ridiculous over complication. The flying will be the easy bit 😂
But blue passports ...
lol
LoL +1
Yeh blue when the old ''British'' passports were actually black, I still have one from the 70's 🙄
Fabrique en Francais
Thanks for the video Jon, I’ve never been to Le Touquet, always done customs at Calais, and Lognes is no ULM so won’t be going there either 😢 The new s-GAR is a right faf. My airfield doesn’t have an ICAO code and when I enter the lat & long that skydemon (or onlinegar) shows, it gets changed to something different 🤷♂️. No ability to save favourite airfields either. Even when playing around with a draft GAR you get warnings of a £10k fine as the flight date is more than 48 hours away. Do hope skydemon comes back with an integrated solution soon.
Great job explaining this. Personally I wouldn’t fly to one of the PNR destinations (many) without getting a positive response from the Douane email. Sometimes it does take a little chasing (so doing at least the day before is a good idea). LFAT is a good option for hassle free clearance if heading in that direction, as is EBOS if going further east.
Smashing video I’ve yet to try a channel crossing did you have a life raft on board ?
What a bureaucratic nightmare! Looking forward to part 2
Another Brexit "bonus". 🙄
@@Bulletguy07 The best bonus is now having 2 CPL licenses to fly the same planes under the same rules :D /s
It would seem Google Maps is incorrect, since it shows runways 08L/26R (arrival) and 08R/26L (departure) both on grass at EGKR. In the video, you took off from runway 24, hard runway, and there was no L or R. As I have a French IP address though, it might not look the same when you check Maps in the UK. I'll try that in my simulator, it looks like a fun short flight.
Really helpful video - thanks so much..! Wondering if there’s any advantage to paying for and using OnlineGAR instead of the new Govt system..?
I think Online Gar were in the process of trying to integrate with the S-GAR response messaging system... so until they manage to do that I don't think there's any advantage. When/if they do, then the advantage would be that they file to both sides simultaneously, and potentially through a more user-friendly interface.
I'm French and I live in Manchester and start my ppl at lognes! Great memories! Brexit is the worst thing happen to the uk!
Informative as ever Jon, what a shame it has come to this though, will certainly put some off from taking the plunge and heading across the channel
Lognes is pronounced “Lon-yuh” (but the “yuh” bit is pretty discrete)
ah thanks
Thanks.
Have you had the aircraft battery cable SB done ? The engine start seemed a little slow.
It is slow on the first turn, always has been. It had a full review of SBs and ADs when I bought it, and everything is deemed up to date, so I assume this would have been looked at in 1986 when the SB came out. It's going in for its 50 hours soon so will ask.
@@TheFlyingReporter The SB was not mandatory so many owners did not do it. As the battery is in the back and the starter in the front changing the cables is only viable at the annual check when most of the interior is removed for structural inspections. I have found that changing these Aluminium cables for copper cables has solved all the starting issues that my customers have had on Piper arrows.
I’m guessing the answer is fairly obvious here, but, assuming if landing purely for customs and go (5 mins as you say), that you still have to pay a landing fee for the inbound service etc?
Yup
Brexit keeps bringing all those sunlit uplands and has not at all ended up in a bureaucratic nightmare. On a positive note this is what GA is all about. Adventure and travel. I would love to be doing this myself.
Quite surprised that European aviation ATC talks in miles (11 miles north of Le Touquet) although I did appreciate most countries, apart from Russia communicate height in feet. 😎😇
China uses metres for alt. Russia used to but now uses feet. Most global aviation uses nautical miles and feet. I'm not sure why you're surprised the EU does too.
@@davidkavanagh189 Mainly because it is a local airport and other published ATC coverage is ILS, beacons / localisers and glide slopes so you rarely hear distances over the radio. I.e. head 270 until you intercept the ILS for runway 30. They may even use knots and miles on their river navigations too?
Does this still apply if you’re flying to Rwanda?
Less paperwork
Is it correct if you hold a lapl licence you cannot fly out of the UK brexit rules
By the end of the year you'll need a biometric scan and have your fingerprints taken as well.
Why does the cynic in me think it's easier by rubber dinghy?
excellent....glad Brexit Britain can still fly to the EU. Bienvenue en France... i thing you dont pronounce the G in Longnes... so maybe Lon-ney....hmmm.
Thanks Simon.
498 Metres is actually 1,633 feet. I have always used the in my head conversion of 3 to 1 so your call of 1,100 feet rang out as just oops
Oh yes - I think I used the Kg to pounds conversion.....rats.
Wait wait -- did you just say "buy some flight plan credits?" You need to _pay_ to file flight plans?!
No. But if you want the ease of doing so through an app such as skydemon, there is a cost. There are many (less convenient) ways to file your flight plan that are free. The flight plan credits on skydemon cost between £1 and 40p each depending on how many you buy. You get a handful free though with your subscription/ renewal
@@TheFlyingReporter Interesting how things vary around the world. I think our ATC operator figured that if they made their API free for electronic flight bag vendors, they wouldn't have to spend money on maintaining their web interface anymore :) There'd be a customer revolt if the EFB vendors started billing for it.
hura hura for brexit, wat a briliant idea. seriously.
Brexit, the crap that keeps on giving. 😡
Great, there is no escape from UK Prison Island. Apart from that, all this crap we need to go through to go to Europe now, bio-metric scans, extra profiling and restrictive visas...Yet hundreds of dingy divers get ushered right into the UK and get given hotels every single day. There is something really really wrong here. I used to love France and Europe in general. Now I can't be bothered with any of it. Sad to be honest.
Brexit means Brexit 😭😭
Frog means Frunchy snails.
Xenophobe means some crusty old bloke standing by a plane@@lynnkramer1211
Hope the 52% are enjoying their newfound 'control', because I'm certainly not.
It was so much easier before Brexit 😐
For the next video, you ll speak all in french, isn't?🤣
Haha. I wouldn't want to inflict my franglais on the world.
@@TheFlyingReporter 🤣
Brexit scoring goals again, as it will continue to do forever. What a monumentally stupid act of self harm.
Brits going to the EU by any mode of transport is likely to be a torturous experience and possibly not worth the effort. The time to prepare, bureaucracy, long queues, security checks, the costs and ultimately not being welcome in Europe, all negate any point in going there. After Brexit, the EU hates us as much as we appear to hate them (not me, I voted remain and still consider my self a European). I feel like I am in exile, held in the UK against my will, like being a guest of Kim Jong Un in North Korea or No 6 in the Village. I am not a number !
So you consider yourself European and not British??
You can be English British and European at the same time without the EU.
Not my experience, as a tourist. If travelling for business, or carrying goods, yes, far more torturous than it used to be. I travel a lot in Europe and find that we are as welcome as we ever were. This is not a comment on Brexit - an opinion I will keep to myself.
And you can be in a trading bloc with fewer travel restrictions in the EU and still be a flag waving Brit. So what's your point exactly? @@gordanmilne7034
@@peanuts2105you can be both 🙄
All this for the law abiding. But anyone can get in a dingy on the French coast and come here for free accommodation and 3 square meals. This country is truly mad.