Why Leopard 1 is ideal for Ukraine now!
Why the Leopard 1 makes so much more sense for Ukraine now than various other tanks like the Leopard 2, Challenger 2 etc. as so often it comes down to logistics. Additionally, although the Leopard 1 is rather dated and relatively weakly armored main battle tank, it is still equipped with a powerful gun and better armored and armed than most other vehicles and non-vehicles it faces.
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00:00 Intro
00:22 Leopard 1 Chassis
01:34 Maintenance & Spare Parts
02:05 Personnel
02:23 Logistics
03:41 Training
04:11 Gun & Ammo
04:45 World-wide
05:11 Ammo Availability vs NATO Textbook
07:01 Lots of Targets
08:58 Summary
09:47 Leopard 2
#leopard1 #ukrainewar #leopard2
Paraphasing a quote here :"The tank you have available to you in the field in working order is far better that the tank that you saw in the Sears catalog"
Sure but only if the enemy has no tanks... the Russian have yet to use the T-14s and they have T-80s and T-90s in the field... Also the Leopard 1 was meant for highly mobile engagements(Which it woud need to flanks modern Russian tanks to pen.) but the Ukirnain-rusain war is now very WW1 like and not mid cold war gone hot... Is it useless no it's just a heavy light tank in a heavy medium tank world.
Not necessarily. The imaginary or unavailable tank in the catalog won't burn, won't embarrass you when it goes up in smoke, won't kill its crew when it does go up in smoke, and won't cost taxpayers any money.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Leo 1 was highly mobile in the 60's - for which it sacrificed gun and armor. It's not particularly mobile by modern standards, and the gun and armor are now even weaker by modern standards. It was a bad idea 60 years ago. But it's "ideal" now lol.
T-14 is none factor really, not really any for combat, the only ones around are test beds for future development. The T-90s/80s and T-72s are the ones to watch out for though.@@GreenBlueWalkthrough
Ukraine annexed the Czech region of Carpathien Rus in 1945 and does not want to return it !!! It is a country of 13,352 km2 (5,155 sq mi) which is about the same size as Crimea. Historically, this territory never belonged to Ukraine. But Ukraine has only been growing for the last 300 years, occupying lands that do not belong to it.
Didn't realize how tall the Gepard is. Good to see it side by side.
well it is a Gepard 1a5 which is on a Leopard 1 Chasis so its a tiny bit bigger
Was my first thought too. That thing is huge.
Is it bigger than the Shilka ?
The Leopard 1 is "ideal". The Leopard 2 is "unavailable".
Leopard 1 is ideal because Germany would rather keep the best tanks and donate the obsolete ones.
@@eighthelementGermany didn't own any Leopard 1 for decades. They buy refurbished ones back. It's not like they are delivering their scraps they don't need. They are actually buying and refurbish them for Ukraine. On the Leopard 2: They don't have that many anymore since they gifted a lot of stuff to new NATO allies since the 90s. All the tanks they currently have are needed for training and the one division they assigned to Lithuania.
@@walli6388 >They actually buy and refurbish them for Ukraine. This is correct. They buy Leopard 1 so that they can fulfill the donation quota. Smart move!
WW2 tank is even better.
Absolutely crazy thing is the leopard one has roughly what were ww2 medium tank armor and its gun would’ve been competitive for the 1950s.
Just before someone else comments, Tobias several times seems to say "Belgisch", which is the German word for 'Belgian'.
Thats a problem when you speak 2 languages - continualy throwing in a word of the wrong language. As an Englishman its embaarasing when I accidentally use a German word but unfortunatly I do it continiously. I also accidentally throw in lots of english words when speaking German but there are 80 million others doing that as well so its not so embarasing.
4:11 he said "and also, what's not to forgetten"
@@jonathanwebb8307 - But isn't it nice to see nowadays so many people around the world speaking fairly well one or two foreign languages and even understanding a great share of several others, even if they don't dare speak them ? Today we earthlings are connected more widely than ever before, and a lot of it must be credited to the Internet.
Which is the most widely spoken language in the world? - Bad English
@@Bakaroo-lo7rg- Sure, Shakespeare would be horrified, but languages evolve all the time adding new words "stolen" from bordering countries.
Here in Ukraine we don't need superior tanks in small numbers, we just need any tanks but in huge numbers.
Here, have these Renault FT-17.
@@radarradarovic2076you missed the "huge numbers" part. Museum exhibits dont count.
The lessons of WW2 are being relearned. High intensity conventional war chews up men and equipment like crazy, no matter how good. The Leopard 2 and M1A1 Abrams are great tanks, but they are complicated and expensive, the WWII equivalent of the German Tiger. And despite their enormous capabilities, they are still highly vulnerable. The older Leopard 1 isn't as well protected and its 105mm gun doesn't have as much punch as the 120mm, but it still hits hard. It is the M4 Sherman in this regard. The M4 Sherman in its day was a long way from being the best tank on the battlefield. But what made it great was its simplicity, reliability and the fact that we could build them in HUGE numbers. The trend for the future will be much less heavily armored tanks relying on advanced active protection systems to deal with side and top attack threats.
The Leopard 1 is the perfect tank because it was recently buffed and is now the best sniper MT at tier 10
😂
Wait the Leo was buffed?! How???
If you play on a decent team and you don't have to spot your own target.... leo1 is OP.
Imagine playing world of tanks and not warthunder
In wot blitz it was buffed The dpm goes crazy 5,5 sec for 360 alpha without adrenalin!@@BENNO117
Does the Leopard 1 carry dedicated HE shells for its 105mm L7 gun? Since the vast majority of tank usage in this war is infantry support its probably the biggest metric if a tank is ideal for Ukraine now or not. As far as i know only the French and Swedes made 105mm HE shells for their L7's and that was in the late 60's. HEAT or HESH is nowhere near as good as dedicated HE for dealing with fortifications and strongpoints.
It can carry pretty much any type of NATO 105x617mmR ammo you choose to supply them with. Maybe not WP (WP has soecific storage requirements), but I don't think anyone really uses WP in tank guns anymore.
No because theres no 105 HE/HE-Frag in storage for that
@@geodkyt except NATO countries dont produce HE for the 105 ... my point still stands. Too lightly armored for tank on tank combat, too usless as a infantry support tank without HE
Infantry can be supported by ammunition that is not HE, too. That's not ideal, but sufficient.
HESH is still very effective as a general purpose HE shell and has its advantages in some cases. It's not as black and white as you present it.
Part standardization is an order of magnitude improvement in terms of efficiency and logistics. I once talked to an old Wehrmacht mechanic who said that repairs and even basic maintenance became a complete nightmare fairly early on in the war, whereas the Russians and especially the Americans not only far superior logistics but also had an endless supply of interchangeable spare parts, which made their mechanics' lives incomparably easier.
Regarding the Biber Bridge. There was an interview in ESUT some time ago in which the CEO of the producer of the bridges for Biber said that the uprated the bridge so that it can now officially carry Leo2 and similar vehicles. Turned out that back in the day they build the bridges so sturdy that they can take the extra weight. Which is something we now know because of modern computer modelling.
@@baronvonslambert There's also cumulative damage from overload, which means a lot of stuff won't break immediately when overloaded but regularly overloading it will shorten its service life i.e. make it wear down sooner rather than later. But in active combat situations, obviously, the durability over years is much less of a concern than it woud be during peace time.
For the logistics of the tank, a ton of parts just aren't in production anymore and is limited. Restarting production for a limited run is expensive. I guess if you run out of leopard Is before that happens it won't be a problem.
Or if Ukraine will plan use them in long therm, it will make more sense start proudciotn again, even other contries, who operate them might be intrested in this production of parts.
Except that even nato armies still use the leo 1 and there is no shortage of spare parts.
@@T.efpunkt Army of Greec and Turkey, opereted by mandatory service soldiers and be know for having big part of weapons in non operational conditions lol.
Greece still uses about 502 Leopard 1A5GR and a dozen or so Leopard 1A4. Turkey also has about 170 upgraded Leopard 1T "Volkan" and another 184 Leopard 1A4. Brazil and Chile also still use the main battle tanks, while Denmark, Estonia, Germany, Finland, Indonesia, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, and Romania still use the ARV or AEV variants. As such ammunition is still produced from various suppliers, and spare parts are pretty abundant.
@@DOMINIK99013 you mean... like russia?
Lancet operators are salivating right now.
Leppard 1s, T62s. It’s like a retro fancy dress party
"Why the Leopard 1 is perfect for Ukraine" - Lancet Operators, propably.
Gotta get their numbers up somehow
This Leo 1 is going to be cracked open like a can of Sardines with FPV.
Since when is the 105 mm so available every country in nato uses the 120 mm. I can’t imagine countries keeping stock ot the 105 while they don’t have the guns for it let alone still manufacturing them
Well, NATO have 105mm gun - Striker MGS and another "wheeled tanks".
Especially HE rounds which are mostly used in Ukraine...
105mm is everywhere...
@@Leo80310 Yes, but different ammo than Leo 1.
Ac130 still have 105mm
Any tank is a good tank when you don't have one! 😂
There is a Leopard 1 parked up in a park in Jerilderie outback NSW Oz static display , Ukraine take note if want to buy it . . the town was the furthest the Ned Kelly gang went north & they held up the entire town literally
There is one in Seymour, Vic, Australia 🇦🇺 I think the Australian army took the power pack out of them.
@@barrythatcher9349 correct, all the M113 and Leo AS1 on public display are missing the powerpacks
@@ravenof1985 which means the Aussie should still have the powerpacks. They could supplied the powerpacks and the Aussie Leo's AS1's could go to the Ukrainians.
@@barrythatcher9349 depends on the condition, if the 60 remaining AS1's have sat outside since 2007 they will be in poor condition, they would be a good source of parts
Logistical advantages of the Leopard I may be considered only when a sufficient quantity of Leopard I (at least over 200) are supplied to Ukraine. There won’t be much “logistical good” from several dozen of them.
That's basically what's being supplied
You do realize that right .They're getting hundreds of them over time
@@lukeamato423The comment section is entertaining, isn't it?
Precisely, that's why the logistics are going to provide some advantages that could outweigh the benefit of 'better' tanks supplied in their dozens. In a war where most tank work is infantry support against poorly armed, poorly supplied and often poorly trained fodder, the Leopard 1 is ideal and the fact that hundreds of them (and their variants) are being supplied to Ukraine is a big deal. Heavy armour rarely meets on the battlefield and even then, the Leopard 1 has advantages over many of the tanks in Russian service. We'll see if that changes next year but for now, most mechanised Russian forces consist of old, outdated and often unimproved armour or modern, lightly armoured vehicles. In many areas where the Leopard 1 is currently serving, it is rare for the trenches staffed by Russian 'volunteers' and conscripts to have something as simple as an RPG-7 available. It's just the nature of war between two poorly prepared forces. Ukraine often lacks modern armoured hardware of its own and Russia overstretched is forces after wasting too many vehicles / personnel around Kyiv and Kharkiv. Sadly, for Russia, the kit of infantrymen tended to stay with their bodies and many caches were overran or destroyed. It all leads to a war dominated by poor, often mismatched and inconsistent logistics where old equipment is worthwhile if it's numerous and good enough to get the job done.
@@aymonfoxc1442 very
My country, Australia, had over 100 leopard 1s but they were all retired and scrapped in the early 2000s. Only a small number still exist and none are operational, except maybe 1 or 2 in museums.
Do we have any additional information on the Dutch contribution to the Leopard 1 consortium? From public reporting the confirmed donations are: •"At least 100" Leopard 1A5, of which 80 are Leopard 1A5DK purchased by 🇩🇰🇩🇪 from FFG •30 Leopard 1A5 (🇩🇪, RHM?) announced on May 13 •25 Leopard 1A5BE (🇩🇪, OIP/RHM) announced in July (+5 Bergepanzer 2 + 20 for spare parts) •30 Leopard 1A5 (🇩🇰, RHM?) announced on Sep 19 Interestingly, Ukraine may also end up receiving a fourth variant. Those 96 Leopard 1A5IT in Italy may not actually be owned by RUAG according to more recent Swiss reporting, since the seller AID lacked the necessary export permits. So perhaps Rheinmetall or another company can refurbish and deliver these to Ukraine as well, once the legal ownership question is resolved.
I understand that video title is generally a clickbait, but BRUH I mean, comment section perfectly completes the video 😂
who about m60s and m48a3. The both use 105 mm ammo like the Leopard.
Harder to find. Otherwise I'd say your spot on.
Maybe They Can Buy It From Vietnam
Well yes you can use APFSDS against people, but its a bit of a waste to fire 1 x APFSDS round against 1 x person, esp. if you have several thousand rounds of 7.62mm coax nearby.
Problem being if you are actually close enough to engage them with coax, they can engage you with even RPGs. Not sure if LEO 1 can survive older RPG7 much less the newer iterations
@@erwinvalken154 no way Leo 1 can survive any RPG shoot even from 1960. Armor comparable to PZ4 and earlyer panthers from 1944 can be beaten even from t-34 from any proection.
I remember you made a video about the Leopard 2 and it being very heavy and saying how the vehicle being a fat cat might sound a bit familiar to your regular channel viewers.
We have all heard about those same 100 Leopard 1 tanks that were going to be refurbished and sent. How many total are available elsewhere and when are they coming??? Everything is on a slow roll for some reason.....
In total, there are about 300 leo 1 available, but there is a problem because so far, the vast majority of them are not accepted in Ukraine. that is, tanks after renovation are simply still not working. although as far as I know, 20-30 leo1 reached Ukraine.
Wouldn't it make sense to fit the Leo1 with the MEXAS armor kit, like the Canadians did? No idea how costly or feasible that is, but AFAIK it adds a substantial amount of protection. Of course, that'd only makes sense if a sufficient number of those addon kits are available or could be made in a short time.
Makes no difference, Ukrainians have abandoned some undamaged Leo2 tanks in the middle of the field as they did not feal like using them, or safe, or something. This tin can is much worse.
@@MartinMaarva is that the ‘undamaged’ Leo2 that was mission destroyed by several remote detonated mines and then got hit by artillery about fifteen minutes later…? That one? Where the crew ran for it because they had nothing that could safely recover it before artillery would strike it and… where Ukrainian artillery then returned the party favour and shot the Russian artillery that destroyed the Leo2…
@@yannichudziak9942 Why did you stop only after two examples, there is plenty more. I meant the one in Kupiansk area abandoned in the middle of the field nor far from the frontline. Obviously Russians destroyed the tank afterwards but there was no apparent damage nor clear visible reason why it was abandoned. Anyway, driving Ukrainian tank is usually a suicide mission.
Truly logistical nightmare with all these different types of vehicles that are not the same.
The real question is Will Leopard 1A5 be able to handöe FPV drones. T Series tanks have had issues with FPV drones whilst Leo 2A5+ seems to be able to handle them better. One does wonder if STRV103 Would fare better than a Turreted tank does?. Best regards.
What i actually noticed so far with the war on Ukraine, is that, Europe has great and efficient military technology, but the production numbers are not very good, a Leopard, Leclerc, Euro fighter, Gripen, and even ammunition, takes to long to produce, to many logistical and burocracy problems. Ukraine had to use much of European stock piles and even so are asking for more, things are not being produced fast enaugh.
You’re absolutely right.
It's ideal because theoretically there should be lots of Leopard 1s in warehouses with ample spare parts and ammunition. It being an older tank also should make training and logistics easier and the FCS on the Leopard 1A5 is easily a match for late Soviet and most modern Russian ones. Considering tanks are mostly used to provide direct fire support on the offense or defense it being under-gunned compared to the T-80 or T-72 isn't that important. The only issue with the Leopard 1 is that it is relatively light on armor which may come back to bite when it comes under fire, especially artillery or air and drone strikes. Unless of course they mass produce MEXAS kits. However, given Europe's lack of investment in its military the theoretical number that should be available is probably not the case. Germany itself had ~2500 Leopard 1s in the Budeswehr at the end of the Cold War, yet they only sent about 90 from this stockpile, barely more than the Danes sent. So my suspicion is that most of Germany's Leopard 1s were parked in a warehouse in 1992 and then forgotten about until 12 months ago. So rather than 2000 available for Germany to send there might be only 300-400 in decent condition with the rest being spare parts donors.
Most of them are destroyed due to the KSE treaty. There is a facility in Germany owned by Krauße Maffei Wegmann in a small town named Roggensußra in Thuringia. At that place hundreds of tanks and thousands of other armoured vehicles were destroyed after the end of the Cold War. So no great stocks are available in Germany anymore.
Most of the dismantled tank parts were sold to Brazil
@@pzakp311 How far the glorious 1989 Bundeswehr has fallen. It used to have 7,000 MBTs, thousands more AFVs, hundreds of planes, 500,000 men, and millions of reservists. If they'd kept all that equipment it alone probably would have been enough. I'll never forgive Ursala von Der Leyen. She got every job through political connections and now after gutting the Bundeswehr to cut costs they decide she's the best person to run the EU into the ground.
Well their armour isn't going to make much difference when it comes to artillery and drones, as both weapons have already proven lethal to more modern and more heavily armoured tanks. A leopard 2 or leopard 1 that gets immobilised by 152mm shell fire are in the same boat.
And I've seen people argue that there are in fact no more spare parts, because the remaining users just cannibalize old tanks to keep their active fleet running.
I'm certain this won't be seen, but a significant number of Leo ones, and a couple of companies or hopefully divisions/brigades obviously division would be better but brigades would be okay, would be the best option. Honestly I think Leo ones, would be sufficient if given in large enough numbers for the whole mission, though I still would like to see better main battle tanks used as well
Just when I thought the hopium couldn't get any worse.
Wait few months! It will be like 1945 in Germany!
you really think russia will win with dwindling BMP-stocks, as of now they are only using BMP-1s in high numbers aswell. Seeing BMP-3s and 2s are sooo rare to see.@@tomk3732
Maybe in 1973 T-55s and Leopard 1s lol
We went from laughing at the russians for using t-62's as spg's/indirect fire support to now justifying leo 1's as "ideal" for Ukraine, which the tank isn't ideal at all for Ukraine. Bad ammo stowage and poor armour that makes the leo1 very vulnerable to any anti tank weapon/fpv drone.
Same as t-55 and t-62, and the L1 can score hits from longer distances than the t-55/62 tanks with their sh*t optics.
Well Ukraine was never shouting that they are a second military in the world. Russians did, and seeing old T series tanks brought to fight is kinda funny.
@@juslitor The t-62m has an ok fcs, it can fire GLATGM's, a 115mm cannon and they have uncooled 2nd gen thermals, it wont have a problem sniping from far distances away. But that doesnt really matter as the t-62s/t-55's see little frontline action and act mostly as indirect fire support with drone correction against enemy positions and my point was leo-1's aren't ideal for Ukraine not which obsolete cold war tank is better in this conflict, what is ideal for ukraine is more t-64's, t-80s, t-72's and even t-62's lmao. We don't know if leo-1's will be even used like t-55's/t-62's, the leo-1 has much better offensive capabilities then defensive and we've already seen a damaged and abandoned leo-1 that was immobilized by a artillery round from a failed Ukrainian counterattack. We can assume that the Ukrainians will use this tank for offensive operations which isn't good as I said before it has poor armour and will be vulnerable to anything, including mobilik Ivan with his rpg-7. Even the older t-series have better armour and have added composite armour/era.
@@punish01 The Russians are still producing and modernizing tanks such as the t-90m, t-80bvm,t-72b3, t-62m/t-55 and of course other military vehicles/aircraft. They are capable of producing massive amounts of artillery rounds, producing drones such as lancets, fpv drones and gerans. The Russians have outproduced the West and Ukraine in terms of quantity, that we've seen Russian artillerymen use shells from the 1990's while Ukrainians have to use shells sparingly from its western allies or from foreign exports. But yes its very funny because Russia deployed old tanks that only see very little frontline combat and act as mostly artillery and muh 2nd military power in the world as if Nato could last as long as Russia in Ukraine. There is a very real chance of Russia winning this war and absorbing Ukraine becoming a even bigger superpower and being a bigger threat to Europe/Nato.
@@romanelite4121 I would not call russians a superpower considering it takes them this long to take a country, well not an entire country a part of it. "t-90m, t-80bvm,t-72b3, t-62m/t-55" why not Armata? "They are capable of producing massive amounts of artillery rounds" not a big suprise since they switched their economy from peacetime to war. Same thing would happen in the West, and West works on peacetime economy. "old tanks that only see very little frontline combat and act as mostly artillery" so an army which is known for artillery does not have enough artillery and has to use old tanks as fire support? Ah alright "as if Nato could last as long as Russia in Ukraine" remember Iraq? Remember air superiority? Russia cannot achieve air superiority. Ukraine war with NATO would end significantly faster. "becoming a even bigger superpower" superpower which cannot conquer a neighbouring state, losing a vessel to navy less country is not a superpower to begin with "and being a bigger threat to Europe/Nato." without air superiority? ahhh yeah sure
Leopard 1 is a nice second linie tank. Fire support and as light artillery.
The older tanks usually lack just two thigs which are armor capable of defending against shaped charge munitions like rpg and thermal optics which are absolotely necessary
they have thermals
Always thought the idea of shipping so many different armored vehicles was a bad idea. This also should be an eye opening experience for all of the EU/NATO. Standardization of not just ammo, heavy equipment should be vitally important for their future procurement plans.
Agreed.
Those Gepard's are huge compared to there replacements. That kinda firepower is irreplaceable. Too bad they still don't make them, especially the 35mm cannons
can this be used by the Leopard 1 ? Falarick 105 Gun Launched Anti Tank Guided Missile (GLATGM)
I think what would make an actual difference would be long range artillery, drones and electronic drone counter-measures. Tanks are sitting ducks now
The problem is mine detection and clearing and counter-drone operations. Come up with a solution to those 2 problems and you will have a massive advantage. Its much like the battle of the atlantic; british technological innovation eventually got one step ahead of the german u boats and methodically eliminated them until they couldn’t move out of port without being immediately attacked and sunk. But its worth remembering that by the end of ww2 the germans had created genuine submarines, capable of operating at speed underwater for very long periods of time. Unfortunately for the germans the destruction of their industries meant only a handful were ever built, but they illustrate the point that military problems require innovative thinking. Perhaps small remote controlled land drones - akin to remote controlled toy cars - could be developed to identify and mark mines for targeting by airborne drones swarms. I dont know. But some form of more effective, wider coverage signal jamming is probably the solution to airborne drones. I dont know. But my point is, the solutions are technical and require innovation - which is what took place in ww1 and ww2 on both sides, but especially on the winning side.
How well does it take an FPV drone or a lancent?
About as well as a t-72
They use FPV drones as lancet can over penetrate ;)
Fair argument considering the assumed shift into a defensive posture. It seems that if Ukraine is to shift to the offensive, it'll either need to be with surprise (like Kharkiv) or after getting a sufficient fire advantage (both arty, long range strike, and ideally air power)
"after getting a sufficient fire advantage (both arty, long range strike, and ideally air power)" They are at all three types in the disadvantage
@@jetfighter200 both of them are never going to happen
@jetfighter200 lmao that's never gonna happen Ukraine just gonna get more fabs dropped on them in thier defense position has well
@jetfighter200 if one smokes enough crack, one begins to believe Ukraine will have that advantage
Are they still making the Leopard I though? Are the production lines even intact still? The way the war is going the existing stockpile from various countries will probably drain up rather quickly.
Does Leopard 1 gets reactive armour? Without it, it can be used only as a dug in self-propelled gun, since sny attack on prepared position with modern anti tank weapons would be a suicide.
EVERYTHING gets ERA in Ukrainian service
@@ravenof1985 That explains price tag...
it would be good if Ukraine received all pledged Leopards 1 in time, not around 20-30 for almost year
cry more
@@Sv5YpWTwd9otTA4So83f despite you being filthy human being i still hope you wont be castrated by some russian unit in future global war
So the crew can die instead of being able to bail out like when they are with Leo 2.
A. yes. 'Military times'. may 19 '23. ' for example , of the approx 300 tank systems pledged - such as leopard 2 promised.... only about 100 have arrived.' hard to run a war with that situation. France has I read 180 LeClerc in Storage, and France is like 15 th in transfer to Ukr, behind Slovakia ( not a strong result, Yahoo finance, Kiel) thou they have transferred about half their light tanks. the larger 120 mm gun would be useful as a substitute for the artillery fiasco, assuming there are lots of that ammo around. WHO is gonna invade France ?
Great Information guys. I was thinking, seeing as you have a experienced tanker you should review WW2 German tanks, Tiger , Panther. I think it would be fascinating to see a modern tanker review a older vehicle and talk about the differences , advantages disadvantages ?.
An you make a video on the large stockpile of Leopard 1 in Italy?
What about the ex GDR T72Ms? If they are still around in storage would they not make more sense still than leopard 1s?
From what I know those all have been sent already 2022, mainly from other countries.
I served as a gunner on the Leo 1A5 back in the 90ies, so I might know what I‘m talking about. This bucket would not stand a chance on today‘s battlefields.
Thankfully its not fighting on a modern battlefield, but against a 3rd world country opponent.
@@nattygsbord Yeah, right. Look how gloriously the Wunderwaffe Leo 2 failed to have any impact. Just dream on!
@@SplendidMisanthropy Just western propaganda. In Ukraine all know leopard 2 and pzh2000 is piece of shit
@@nattygsbordyeah the "3rd world country" is destroying our western equipment with bombs dropping from 300 dollar drones
This channel was way better before "the thing".
What thing?
But these spare parts are not made anymore right? You can only get the spare parts as other Leopard 1s can be cannibalized. How long can that be sustained for?
I heard a Russian Wagner unit who's radio was being over heard "we only have on t72 left call in the grenadiers or more vehicles,there's two leopards running around behind our lines fn us up,were under constant fire it's urgent. So the leopard 2 does have a place just logistically.even the tools have to be special,you have to have German diesel tools,which is hard to keep and save when constantly withdrawing or depots under drone stack etc
Would have been appropriate to transfer engineering documentation and tooling for Leopard I to Czech or Polish companies, that already have a sizable operation repairing and refitting armored vehicles for Ukraine. Companies in Western Europe still run pretty much peace time operations, that are too expensive and too time consuming for a major war on the eastern border of Europe.
Those peace time reistraints should have gone out the window by now in the EU. I mean, turning to a full war economy sounds like a bad idea too, but so is the current way of military production.
Theoretically that could have worked. In practice though it would be cheaper to buy tanks manufactured elsewhere as production costs in the EU are through the roof. Personally I don't see why the US didn't overhaul part of it's vast M-60 Patton tank fleet and have them sent to the Ukraine instead. The Turks and Israelis offer excellent upgrade packages for those, and they could have had hundreds of them in the field by now.
@@alexeishayya-shirokov3603 Most of the M60s in American storage are M60A3 from eighties so they don't even have to be modernized, because they are roughly comparable to modernized T-72s from the same time period and those are still widely used by Russians on Ukraine in frontline duties.
@@dusanbolek8004 I'd put the M-60A3 closer to the T-62M as they're both II generation tanks that have been upgraded with additional armor packages and optical suites to bring them as close as possible to III generation tanks. The T-72 "Ural" from the mid-70s would technically fit into the II generation despite having a more powerful smoothbore gun than the M-60A3 and T-62M. That being said, T-72 "Ural" tanks were phased out by the late 1980s and replaced by T-72B tanks, which belong to the III generation (composite armor, digital fire control systems, more powerful engines etc.). The Russian army later modernized most of these to T72B3/B3M standards (new ERA suite, upgraded engine, upgraded thermal imagers and fire control systems etc.). A proper III generation M-60 upgrade would be the Turkish-Israeli Sabra Mk-II currently operated by the Turkish ground forces; it boasts a proper 120mm smoothbore gun and an ERA suite that gives it excellent firepower and protection, en par with most III generation tanks. Just imagine what the Ukrainians could have done with some 1000 of these as opposed to the largely insignificant numbers of Leopard-II, Challenger-II and M1A1 Abrams tanks that they ended up receiving. In retrospect it looks more like a PR stunt gone wrong and less like an actual military aid package.
@@alexeishayya-shirokov3603 If hundreds of M60's could be fielded, when the ground conditions are good, it would be a war changer. Quantity has a quality of it's own, and having that much firepower could prove to be a game changer.
Not sure about that mentioned wide ammo availability, because from what I read there is actually rather severe shortage of 105×617mm ammo for Ukraine, because while this ammo was indeed widely used and manufactured around the world in the past , those manufacturing lines were closed long ago and remaining supply is dwindling, because no one actually planned that tanks with 105 mm gun still have another intensive conflict in front of them as they were mostly already decommissioned, moved into the reserves or scheduled to head into those directions very soon.
Yes, this is indeed true. These obsolete vehicles are logistical nightmare for Ukraine, contrary to what video says.
Some 30 years ago on a combined military exercise there were 3 Gepards i was attached to, that in turn were supposed to protect tanks and other vehicles that were also in the column. 2 of them broke down in the first hours leaving their depots. Then on an open stretch an American A10 got sight of the column and started attacking runs. The 3rd Gepard went into action tracking it, it's barrels swooped up aiming and....it broke down too. Were it real everything would have been in ashes. I really wonder if the mechanical reliability ever became less shameful then that.....
For those curious as to the logic here: Ammunition stocks are more widely available for the cannon, from what I understand. Not all repairs require the tank to be sent back to NATO repair facilities, and even then, wider parts availability still means that vehicles can be maintained for longer both in Ukraine and back in NATO territory. I think its odd that people are saying that it's terrible because for the purposes of dealing with enemy vehicles from IFVs to MBTs as its cannon is still effective enough to get a mission kill on an enemy in either case even on the most modern MBTs, if not a full knockout. I think Russia's more advanced vehicles certainly have better FCS and other capabilities but those vehicles have been much rarer on the front... older, un-upgraded (dare I say outdated) T-72s and BMPs are being frontlined en masse. But there are plebty of other targets that a mobile cannon can be more effective at taking out. Artillery and rocket vehicles, transports, logistocs and support vehicles, etc. Frankly, choosing between 20 of the most modern tanks and 100 Leopard 1s, I'd go with the greater number.
Being a much more lite tank then the newer models may also be a significant benefit in bad weather and mud.
Maybe but the ground pressures of the Leopard 1 and 2 are actually almost identical. The Laopard 2 has longer tracks and one more roadwheel so the weight is distributed over a bigger area.
When they get stuck though- the Leo 1 is easier to recover@@tessjuel
A big benefit of leo1 is the weight with 40t. The leo2 has 64t. So bridge crossing much more possible and tow away much easier. Compared to what the Russians are offering, the Leo1 is equivalent and in some cases superior in terms of combat range, night vision and always better in reversing speed. And on Drones and AntiTank Weapons it dissable every Tank, no matter how new and good it is.
@@stefans.3940 How many times has a tank fought against a tank during this conflict? Something like 10 times in 2 years. I'm not sure that it matters at least how well a tank destroys other tanks today.
@@InvalidDrivermore than that but Russia doesn't pump out endless videos trying to do propaganda... your point is essentially correct though that Tank v Tank is rare with Drones & Artillery dominating the battlefields. Ukraine can't field tanks and when they do then they get targeted by Lancets and/or Artillery... Russia is using their tanks to support armored colums to push fortified positions in Infantry support.
Love how everybody and his gamer friend was saying how Leopard 1 was the worst ever a couple of month ago and now, everybody is an even bigger expert saying "Leopard 1 is the best! People "know it all" i guess.
That's because they don't ever have to sit in one on the actual battlefields
That's because this is a propaganda channel... they say whatever the regime wants then to say at that exact moment.
Reassuring to an extent. Tanks really do feel obsolete though considering their expense, logistics burden and vulnerability for a now pretty small protection and direct fire trade off.
I wonder if you'd create a video series analysing footage from the Ukraine war
I had a similar idea for the M 60 pattern battle tank. The United States has thousands of these tanks in storage. Sure they would have to be refurbished, but this could be done relatively inexpensively, as well as mounting them with that new turret. The Turkish military came up with modernizing their own fleet of M-60s
The later m-60s were very good tanks. Ukraine could make good use of them. The 105mm cannon is more than adequate for the vast majority of missions. Ukraine needs numbers and the M-60 would be a great addition. There were proposals from US manufacturers to create a modern turret for them, but honestly it probably isn't needed in Ukraine when they are facing off against refurbished T-55's,
Honestly I don't know how much of these we really have in storage. A lot of them have been sent abroad and the ones that are still in the States have been sent to be Lawn ornaments on Military posts and for VFW's. But man I love the M60....All it takes is for you to climb on top of one and you are "This is a tank"
To the best of my knowledge, like the Leopard I, most M-60 tanks were sold or donated to allies in the 80s and 90s. The only tank that any western military has in substantial reserves are older Abrams. The Ukrainian military doesn't need tanks by the dozens, but by the hundreds. Bradleys are apparently performing quite well.
This video must be a joke. Comparing Leopard against BMP? That's just wonderful. A MBT is more armoured than an IFV. Wonderful news.
Well, a leo1a5 is more armored, but not much more, than a bmp3. With era in the equation, the leo1 is actually worse, armor wise.
If that's all you got from that video, yeah, definitively a joke, carry on.
The point is that IFV operate on the front line just as MBTs. Still, an MBT with more armor than an IFV is considered "useless" for some reason...
Tank on tank combat is the exception anyway. So having a tank vs tank comparison isnt really more useful. Seems like the joke is your comment.
The Leopard has very thin armor for an MBT. It was designed during a completely different era. There's 30mm APFSDS that can pen the UFP
Plus the Leo 1A5 is a damn handsome tank.... Just saying
Can the Leo 1 also shoot BONUS and SMART rounds?
No, those are Artillery ammunition.
Just for accuracy the National Guard is a part of the US army, they’re not separate (the Air National Guard is the same for the Air Force) in any meaningful way for him
Ok, just to be accurate. The various state National Guards are not part of the US army. The US Army standards, training, etc. are approved but the US army. It it possible to have a NG rank that is not recognized (usually state politics) by the US Army. Doesn't happen a lot.
@@airborneranger-retyep, the "National Guard" is the worst-named organization(s) in history. Should go back to being called the State Militia, or better yet county militias, as they existed prior to the Civil War
@@airborneranger-ret I’m specifically referencing the Chieftain since that’s what he said in the video prompting my comment
@@looinrims so it's "anecdotal"? Lol
Let's get to the real point. European countries DON'T want to give up their Leo 2's. in case they need them. The Leo 1's is obsolete & therefore Europe is willing to give them to the Ukrainians.
They'll need them when Ukraine can't hold Russia off with obsolete tanks.
No tank can hold off a Lancet@@MutatedPizzaBoi
Far from obsolete, maybe more accurate term would be obsolescent.
@typorad obsolete is the correct term... it's underarmored & undergunned for any task it's going to be assigned as Armor. Radically different than when Russia is using modernized T-64s which are also obsolete as Armor BUT Russia isn't using them as MBT instead as basically IFVs to support Infantry as a main gun (cause it's gun actually isn't obsolete unlike the Leo-1.)
@@nationalsocialism3504the L7 105 is still one of the better guns out there...
Hmmm. I am not so sure about that. I mean without a 100% crew, vents and the right bond equipment what are they going to do with it? Besides, in the current meta they might find the Leopard 1 lacking somewhat survivability. Due to the limited map designs right now, most of the engagements end up in camping on each side till everyone gets bored or the match is almost ending and then you wait for the scouts to detect everyone. Arty being OP and anoying as always doesn't help the situation either. You might be better off in a Kranvagn or some other fast heavy that works hull down. It sucks how this has become a pay to win situation rather than about skill.
All war is pay to win…
Wondering if the UK still has the Uranium depleted 105mm rounds on storage. They could come in handy! Germany never had them.
Most likely still has some... UK did send DU rounds for the Challenger II & Russia hunted that supply depot down to destroy it with cruise missiles. Doubtful that UK sent their entire stockpile so that Russia could thankfully destroy them before they were able to used... truly evil people using DU rounds to contaminant the ground soil with radiation but Russia blew them up around Lwow which prevented the radiation poisoning they would have caused. (Though the Challenger II getting immediately smoked the second one showed up on the frontline has kept the rest in reserve to try to prevent that humiliation from being captured on video again.)
@@nationalsocialism3504 Your nickname says everything we need to know about you.
@FalconekL2 it actually says a lot about you being totally propagandized since your ignorant about basic historical facts. We aren't the same since fictional books & stories aren't treated as true by me... while Hollywood movies are the only "facts" that you know.
@@nationalsocialism3504 Says a vatnik. Go serve your duty to Putin and hopefully meet your fate near Avdiivka.
I used to watch this channel on a regular basis but this conflict has changed all that. Leopard 1? Are you kidding me? Get bent.
Russia is getting t-80s and t-90s out now, the latter ones being newly produced units. Ukraine had needed these tanks in may 2022, not now. Better than nothing, but there will not be a breakthrough with these
they could have had them in May 2022 they still would have been clapped
@@zeffy._440The only thing being clapped is your bum cheeks.
I've always been impessed by the Leo. It was designed perfectly for the environment it was expected to fight in, which was Germany. It's also what the E-series from WW2 was going for...modular systems that work for several types.
Numbers are the most important thing, Leopard 2s and Abrams are great tanks but provided in limited numbers will not be that useful. Leopard 1s can be provided in significant numbers which can then outfit many battle groups.
There are also fair stocks of Leopard 1 still operated and/or stored by countries that could be convinced to part with them. Greece has several hundred in store and I imagine they could be convinced to part with some if they for example got a good deal to exchange them for Leopard 2. Brazil and Chile each have a few hundred too and Turkey I believe has some as well. Neither of them are probably willing to directly supply to Ukraine but could maybe sell them via third party if they got a good enough deal. And I assume some European countries that used to operate the Leopard 1 still have some in long term storage that could be refurbished.
Some problems, in the case of Greece, there is the need to maintain readiness against Turkey, so a 1 for 1 exchange is possible, it has to be done on the spot and probably at very low cost, which would lead to the need to compensate Turkey; In the case of Chile and Brazil, there are no naive people here, the fiction of passing on the Leopards to a third party is unsustainable, and these countries have nothing to gain by jumping on the Western bandwagon, and the position of "neutrality" is profitable and little onerous.
And if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle! Time to quit clutching at straws and sue for PEACE
COPE !
They should build new moderized Leopard 1s. Like the one with an Cockerill 3105 Turret. Maybe with an Rh 120mm L44 or L47 an remote weaponstation and an APS like Trophy. Maybe they could ad a light Dronelauncher for Quadcoper recon drones
Why not just build Leopard 2?
@@ChrisCollier hopefully it could be build for less then 6m Euro (like a Leo 2A4), it would be much lighter, than a Leo 2 (about 20 tonnes) and maybe it would be less painfull to Lose one of this modernized Leo 1s than a Leo 2.
@@fj1659 OK then, I see what you mean. I think both the US and Germany are looking at smaller, lighter tanks to replace M1 and Leopard 2.
@@ChrisCollier yeah and there is relativly low development cost the Leo 1 is well proven and would be a good solution to the lack of Tanks in the European NATO
lol countless good youtubers about tanks shown log time ago how bad this tank is, especially his armor... It's more or less like an AMX-10 but on caterpillars...
Yeah now all of a sudden tanks from 1964 are perfect 😂 but russia was mocked for using t64 that werent even used as main battle tanks and even t72s
Lancet food. Then again they're mainly using them as extra gun tubes for artillery.
Do you realize how many Lance's are failing....the vast majority
cope@@lukeamato423
@@lukeamato423 ”the vast majority“ Lol where are you are you getting your info from, 30 sec KZhead shorts made by american mutts? What is a percent of “vast majority”? 50%, 80% failure rate? I think if you knew the percentage for western missiles failures you would find that the discrepancy between western dud rates and Russian is probably not as drastic as you are trying to say. Regardless, Ukraine is losing just like they always have been and this fake and ghey war was just another money laundering operation for the military complex and the liberal media to enrich themselves off of. And when the next fake war psy op comes around, which will probably be with Iran, the braindead public will all be waiting to lap up the lie vomit from the media again.
@@lukeamato423 And?
Do you realize how many more Lancets russia has than ukraine has tanks?@@lukeamato423
Leo 1s are lighter for running in Ukraine on the back roads. Another reason is that there are very few tank on tank battles in Ukraine. Russia is now using T-54/55 in Ukraine.
Sure buddy, RUSSIA do has military complex factories that can repair or produce 100 tanks a month, let see if britain or Germany can Match RUSSIA military complex, because russians are running out of missiles, tanks, drones 😂😂😂😂
Site was unavailable and then I retried and it worked. KZhead playing games.
So much enthusiasm for Ukraine.That is very political !
I love ths channel and you guys are super knowledgeable. But this just seems like a coping video. But I agree with the premise that a tank is better than no tank, however.
Except it might not be. Because men diverted to provide difficult logistics for hella old obsolete and proprietary tanks might be taken away from artillery logistics support which WOULD detract from fighting power. So no tank would honestly be better.
@@TheStaniG artillery IS the defining weapon in this war. I completely agree
This is very much a cope video.
@@carlosthejackal87I’d rather have more 155 mm SPGs than Leopard 1s if I was Ukraine.
@@grahamstrouse1165 i agree
India has thousands of British designed made in India VIJANTA 105mm tanks. Designed for among other to defeat anti-tank crews.
Well, Leopard 1A5 is still an effective target destroyer with great precision at a distance of 4-5 km, good mobility and plenty of ammounition available. But it never was a main battle tank.
They have sent their stocks of Leo 2's so now they are pulling Loe 1's to put into action, sounds like a winning strategy.
Yea, like sending t-62s and t-54/55s.
the Leo1 is more of a tank destroyer than a class tank in that, like the M18 Hellcat, it has lighter armor, can drive over 50 mph and has a gun capable of engaging enemy tanks.
Yeah... other half century old MBTs whose armor is also thin enough that the 105mm cannon is actually threatening to. Even T-64s that have been modernized with REA would be able to shrug off almost all shots that a Leo-1 could fire while the 125mm would penatrate most of the time.
Wasn't one of the problems that there is no 105mm HE-FRAG ammo to be used against infantry? Also, I'm still wondering why Ukraine did not put ERA on their Leos. Is the armor even too thin for that?
They did...
With the M10 Booker (also known as MPF during development) and the stocks from the now retired Stryker MGS, 105mm ammunition compatible with the L7 gun should not be too difficult to source from the United States. That ammunition never totally went out of service and production.
@@rwaitt14153 yep and the French wheeled tank uses 105 aswell ...they have ammunition aswell. Not entirely sure it's compatible but .there's lots of 105 ammunition in storgae
@@lukeamato423 The AMX-10 RC uses a different non-compatible proprietary 105mm ammunition.
@@rwaitt14153 ya I was thinking that, the French...
Refreshing video to what you normally post. I like both real life and video essay styles though 👌🏻
We need to step up out support of Ukraine. Either way.
None of NATO's introduced 'wonderweapons'(HIMARS,HARM,JDAM,switchblade,Patroit,-youname it,Leopards,Challengers) thus far hasn't made a sigificant difference
Stopping the russian advance is a pretty damn significant difference, bub.
HIMARS and Patriot, as well as 155 mm artillery actually made a huge difference in turning this "3 day special operation" into two year affair and counting.
Not without air support.
@FalconekL2 You’re still falling for that 3day lie?
@juslitor They haven’t done anything. Just more chubs for the grinder.
The Leopard 1 was also the main tank deployed by U.N. peacekeeping forces in Europe during the Kosovo conflict around 1996, not that many rounds were expended by them, so there's probably stockpiles of 105mm ammo leftover, if you can trust using 25 year old ammo. When you use your tanks in an artillery role, it's nice to have a lot of HE rounds... especially if your actual artillery is running low on ammunition. If the Leopard 1 is kept further back from the front lines, playing the role of arty, it's lack of armor isn't so important, since it's still probably better armored than actual self propelled arty. 😉
Kosovo war was Feb 98 - June 99. In Bosnia, UNPROFOR had a Sqn of Danish Leopard 1, which would be around 20. When NATO took over in Jan 96 the British brought Challenger tanks. The Canadians had 4 Leopard 1. In Kosovo Canada again had 4 Leopard 1. Germany had 28 Leopard 2 in Kosovo.
Interesting video
Without air superiority there isn’t a tank in existence that makes sense. Credibility is deserving of more respect.
Don't get me wrong air superiority still matters but with how common drones are in these modern conflicts even with "air superiority" many heavy vehicles still get knocked out by these inexpensive drones with a mortar round duct taped to it.
Ukraine is like Germany in winter of 43-44, and the Leo 1 is the Pz IV.
Yeah, but the Pz IV was a medium tank + - on par with vehicles of a similar class from other countries on the battlefield. Leo 1 was a strange "tank" at the time of its creation.
@@Scrap_Lootaz How is the leopard 1 strange? M60, AMX-30, Centurion, Type 74 were all similar. Steel tank with 105mm.
@@BloodyCrow__ , Well, for example, missing tank armor? 70 mm in the forehead is not serious, thin side armor that can be penetrated by automatic cannons. I know that the decision to neglect the reservation was conscious, because the designers then thought that it was impossible to defend against HE-AP ammunition. However, they forgot that weapons with HE-AP ammunition are not the only ones on the battlefield and, for example, this greatly reduces survivability against artillery fire. The very tactics of using Leopards 1, from ambushes where only a tower sticks out from cover, and so on. Don’t you think that this will remind you not of tanks, but of anti-tank self-propelled artillery guns, like the M10 or M36?
@@Scrap_LootazReal life isn't world of tanks. Standard Nato doctrine is firing from defilade. Modern MBTs can be penetrated by autocannons in the side. Modern MBTs are just as vulnerable to artillery.
@@BloodyCrow__ Ha ha, what a joke (not). Well, yes, the NATO Doctrine is crap? But we are talking about the tank, not why it is like this. Tanks are needed to stand in ambush, acting as a cannon, and not to develop an offensive (sarcasm). The problem is that the side armor of Leo 1 is 2 times thinner than, for example, that of the T-62. Do you know what this means? That the explosion and fragments of an artillery shell are more dangerous for Leo 1 at a greater distance from the explosion. And so with literally everything, the question is the degree of vulnerability. A direct hit from a 150 mm shell will destroy anyone, but how often do shells hit the target exactly? and not at 5 meters or 10 meters and will the armor withstand, and Leo’s armor is 1, cardboard. This imposes a bunch of other problems, for example the inability to use ERA normally.
"An army marches on it's stomach." - Napoleon. Logistics is the backbone of any army. Without it soldiers starve, guns go silent, tank can't drive and planes can't fly. I would love to see a video on the logistics system of Nato compared to Russia or other countries.
Money is the backbone. No money no logistics. You can have everything you need but if you can't afford to pay the men its useless. Amateurs talk strategy professionals talk logistics but experts talk money. Nobody works for free. Of course soldiers are not experts in that field. Its not their job. But it should not be ignored.
It must be remembered that the Germans had better armor protection against most allied tanks but the allied numbers dealt with that issue. My take is send more Leopard 1s & any other older tanks we have available that is on same level with it until we are willing to send over a useful number of our modern tanks.
The logistics advantage makes no sense because they still need to be shipped out of Ukraine for repairs like the rest of the NATO vehicles The only advantage is weight, and it's about as much of a T-90M Otherwise the weaker HE, lack of fragmentation HE technically decent APFSDS outdated FCS (depends on variation) Even the NV spotlight would set off laser warning receivers (inherited of all IR spotlights) It's also much more vurnerable to Autocannons and light RPG's I cannot see this as more advantageous to a Leopard 2, they just share the same issues Let alone against drones, and artillery Also, Russian FCS systems are actually superior to NATO vehicles, abiet minorly I do not know where you got the idea that the FCS system of a T-72B3 is trash T-72B3 FCS has automatic tracking and leading It's had it since the B3 upgrade
Russian FCS superior to their western counterparts? Don't make me laugh. If that were the case, please explain why soviet designed tanks still stop to fire like it's 1943... Or why Ukrainian tankers who received western tanks unanimously praise the vastly superior FCS.
@@Hurricane2k8 Dog, where are you getting this there's evidence literally everywhere Fuck I've been inside a T-80u when I served Regarded hunter killer isn't as effective on T-72's bc the commander sight is unstabilzed but on a T-90M it is Sosnua-U and it's modern renditions certainly are about the same in practice against a NATO FCS, it just has a slightly better edge on targeting faster targets There's even videos of looking directly through a T-72B3's thermals and it working It's not hard to find Edit: Ukrainians are used to old T-64 FCS ofcourse a Leo1A5's fcs is better
Funny russia should have these wunderwaffen weapons systems, yet they fight with old soviet scrap iron@@handsomeivan1980
Now that's the funniest thing I've seen for a long time! Seriously - would you buy a used tank from these shady dudes?
Good. In Italy we have tons of such tanks.
Whats worse Leos has wery bad top armour. There are numerous cases when a 82mm mortar riped open turet and caused casulties. Imagine FPV drone whit thermobaric RPG warhead or 2kg satchel charge...