On October 21-23 the first Trelleborg Bouts took place at Trelleborg Viking Fortress in Denmark, a weekend full of Viking combat training and experimentation initiated by my friend Christoffer Cold-Ravnkilde, kindly supported by the museum direction and a wonderful group of attendees.
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Dear Roland did you have any real serious injuries or someone have it from swordplaying ?
@@gotfrydzbouillon4191 The Trelleborg Bouts and all my events at Hedeby were free of injury. The Berlin Buckler Bouts which have usually taken place twice per year over the past ten years saw three badly bruised thumbs, one split eye brow, and one thrust to the inside of the elbow that required medical care. But there have indeed been much more serious injuries in the practice of historical swordplay elsewhere. Shit happens.
Normal guys: Fighting with swirly designs Roland: Behold my shield, painted by the gods themselves! Well, we know who the end boss is for this game lol Great food work going on with this group! Some day I hope to catch this when I'm in Europe.
I'm seeing a common theme coming up in the comments where people think that this isn't "real" fighting because they're not wearing armour and not charging at each other while mindlessly swinging their weapons trying to score hits... as if that somehow makes it less historically accurate. The fact is that armour was expensive, so you would have seen more fighters without armour than with it, so they HAD to play it safer and protect themselves. Their lack of armour meant they couldn't just run in without fear of injury, trying to get a quick kill. They had to play things more methodically and strike with surgical precision. And I think this video portrays this perfectly. So if you somehow see this comment before anyone else's, I encourage you to look at the Patreon link that Roland has posted in the replies to a few threads. It explains everything in far more detail than I have done here.
The training a fight against a lefty is unusual but useful.
someday i want to learn to fight like that, i'm a big fan of viking and medieval stuff
This is a reinvented style of dueling from a much later time period - the middle ages. Most vikings did not even have swords because steel was very expensive in the north at the time and would instead wield an axe or a spear. Nothing was more honorable to the Vikings than to die in battle and go to valhall(a) and dine with the gods, now can you imagine a viking fiddling and flopping around like this? If you really wanna learn how to fight like a viking I suggest you join a firm and do some actual street fighting, I know it may sounds strange but there you actually get a feel for what its like when an opponent is really trying to hurt you. There youl also learn how to fight in a large group. After that seek out russian or polish reenactors and youl thank me later if your still into reenactment after all of that :)
I think a lot of people in the comments are missing the point of this type of sparring. I also do historical fencing (mostly rapier which I know is very different) but I agree with a lot of points he makes about modern equipment spawning reckless fencing. I also always appreciate a different training method rooted in historical practice. No this isn’t exciting or flashy to most, but it is absolutely a valid training method
Hey Roland, did you ever finish that book about sword and kite shield fencing? I’d love to buy a copy and I can’t seem to find any info.
Not out yet. That book saw many conceptual changes. But it is finally scheduled for 2023. Cornelius and myself are currently working on an extensive sword & buckler online course. You are welcome to subscribe to my newsletter to get regular up-dates: exciting-pioneer-6049.ck.page/a8f72e8432
@@swordandshield thank you for the reply, and in regards to the book still releasing, hallelujah!
Eagerly awaiting the book!
Nice lifestyle view!
That is what we want to see.
WOW
Farewell! 🗡️⚔️.
Very cool, I would like to know the wieght of these shields? I guess 2.5 kilograms at most? I have a 4.7kgs round shield, my arm muscle burns out too fast for this style.
Question from the ignorant. It seems that virtually all the attacks in this play are thrusts, and the fighters spend much time in what appears to be deliberately running their blade along the blade of the opponent. I get the concept that feeling the movement and pressure of the opponents blade (and shield) gives information about what the opponent is doing. My question is, are these appearances due specifically to the fact that this is a training exercise, which may be focusing on one specific aspect of fighting? or do you think that this is how a real lethal fight would have been prosecuted by men using this equipment in the Viking era? Genuinely asking as I'm trying to develop a sense of what Viking era combat would have looked like.
The short answer is that there's no sure way to absolutely know, but it's very possible that it might have been something similar to this. What the research is based on is methods used in I.33, which it employs a lot the use of winding and the binding of swords. In this demonstration what we are seeing is a training exercise. Both fighters are being careful not to injure each other or themselves. Ofcourse this is the question that still remains and asks for a definitive answer, and so far it is only speculation what can be obtained. Maybe what the actual combat might have been was something in between constant slashes and cuts, and the binding and feeling out your opponent.
Seems like a good training excersise but it is always gentle which discards it from being a true test of a warrior's ability.
I assume that you miss intent here. This is a common critique which, in my opinion, is based on a widespread misconception of what a realistic fight simulation should look like. I have recently addressed the subject here, if you are interested: www.patreon.com/posts/why-true-martial-74651230
thinking like that is how you wind up shoving your head into your opponents sword
I ask, as you may know the answer, of the migration era autopsies, how prevalent were injuries between knee and foot (including the foot) ?
I have no statistics at hand but I recall having seen a severed thigh bone at Moesgaard Museum. As can be seen in Bengt Thordemann's book on the Battle of Visby, cuts to the left and the right thigh and calf still were a common battle injury in 1361.
у вас все щиты из фанеры?
🤠👍🏿
Is their any historical evidence or context of fighting left handed or against a left handed opponent? 😊
There are mentions of lefthanded Legionnaires being taught to fight with the sword in the right hand as not to disrupt the formation. So one can assume left handed warriors were common enough in other places to make chroniclers point this out as something noteworthy about the Romans.
Archaeologist Sue Brunning made a strong case that the Saxon warrior buried at Sutton Hoo was left-handed. I have also seen a good number of complex-hilted weapons that can only be used by a left-handed fighter. The same is true for earlier swords: The slight twist of the pommel that optimises a sword for the owner's handedness is in a counter-clockwise orientation for right-handed fighters. An occasional offset in the opposite direction bears testament to customisation for sinistral use. And as Tom mentions in the video, training ambidexterity was considered a martial virtue amongst the Vikings.
@@swordandshield I think that Brunning makes a fair argument, but is there a chance that the individual was right handed and simply chose to wear his sword on the right? My impression is that universally wearing the sword on the non-dominant side only really became set in the early middle ages (some time around or just before the Viking age I imagine). Thanks for your time, Roland.
i just schemed through this and i dont understand what wins the "duel" and it looks to me just some dancing with the sword but surely there is some technique behind their movement i dont know. if the intention is to kill the one ur facing like in tv shows it looks much different or is this dancing as i see it just because there is no safefty equipment?
Winning the duel means that you have gained the center, without the opponent being able to defend.
Vikings wore turkish helmet?
Think of it as early russian headwear, and yes the vikings or more correctly the norsemen traded and looted all the way from northern Europe to down to Byzantium. So yes along the way they adopted fashions from the turkic peoples as well.
This is incredible, but also somewhat confusing! I've never seen fighters using the Western system in this way-- I am a long time follower of Christoffer and his vikingfight channel. I assume this is more of an adaptation of HEMA into the usual viking fighting system- anything goes of course! Now these are not critiques, merely fascinations; Would love to know more about some of what I haven't seen before- shield ducking, where normally obscuring the head in any way could be dangerous. pointing the sword off the top edge of the shield facing an opponent, which could also be dangerous in the sense of damage to an opponent's face; and also soft/implied head as a target, where some instances of strikes in this video are not followed through as they would normally incapacitate the head of the opponent, who is not wearing protection. It also seems there's a lottttt more finesse in these fights more common to HEMA and epee sport fencing, than to the Western jomsviking style I am used to using here in Utland (America). Always love to learn more, is what I mean. Great video Roland!
Well there's a major difference between doing LARP or buhurt combat, and actual reconstruction historical martial arts. Although they're somewhat doing a bit of LARPing by being dressed in historical costumes, it is for the sole purpose of getting a feel for what it might have been like to fight in such method.
@@tatumergo3931 they're not doing buhurt at all. They are using a system called Ninheim, which was created by the founders of Jomsborg, some of whom were part of The Vikings (UK) in 86-89. Well, technically I believe it was created by Omat Bhatti, the chief training officer of the London Jomsborgelag. They wanted to focus on combat, instead of focusing primarily on camp/re-enactment itself, and then go from there. Today pretty much everyone uses this system. Buhurt as a formality began in the late 90s, which was almost already a decade after these groups in England had cultivated a strong following. Today it's still completely overshadowed by them, with around 4-5 thousand members in Jomsborg around the world, from all over here in the US, to central Chile, all over Italy, Germany, France, Australia, and even New Zealand. Buhurt is also especially and only done when wearing head protection and armour-- whereas Jomsborg's main system is something new to weapons martial arts called "Western" style, which incorporates a unique targeting system while in plainclothes (padding underneath) without the head protected/as a target. This was the initial thing for which Ninheim was designed for. I know this because I have participated in the organisation for almost 10 years, while also studying traditional historic longsword and Kendo.
@@tatumergo3931 The contextual problem with the phrase "LARP"-ing is that it usually refers to something like SCA, which is unhistoric, basically Dungeons and Dragons live-action role playing. There's no "roles" to play in what this video presents other than being a combatant in a purely hypothetical situation. And yes, I am fully aware that pretty much everyone doing Jomsborg today is kind of faux pas for LARPing since they're using a moveset that the Vikings and the Rus would never have used. But I think that there's even some evidence that the fechtbuchs (fightbooks) such as for Longsword may have been a technical thing, and not NECESSARILY something that real knights did on a real battlefield against opponents seeking to kill them-- because most knights had the distinction of owning a horse. Otherwise, HEMA would be LARPing, right, as there's no horses. To me, Buhurt is directly in the middle of that Venn Diagram.
@@sacredxgeometry . Contextually yes, you are correct. That's why I said a bit, and not necessarily the actual SCA type of activity. The phrase has become sort of a term used loosely today for all types of individuals that like to dress-up a bit for a particular activity. It's more common among the firearms and guns community, and not so much related to HEMA. Since technically speaking, to actually get a full understanding of historical martial arts, one should dress accordingly to the time period. Just like the same way japanese use traditional clothes to practice their own martial arts. As far as if it's correct what techniques or combat methods they used back then. All I would dare to say is that, it's all hypothetical unless someone comes up with a time-machine and we could finally dispelled all other ideas. Nonetheless this looks pretty good and maybe possible to be the actual thing. What I am trying to say is that the idea that what they did was just hacking at each other wildly, like it is usually portrayed in Hollywood movies might not be fully true. Maybe the actual truth was something in between hacking at each other and this kind of finesse type of fighting. If you can understand what I'm trying to say. Alas in the end, I don't really know enough nor do I have that much experience to argue anything different.
@@tatumergo3931 I really like that idea! I tend to think that, at times, the best warriors knew how to hack the best. But to stand out from the best warriors, you have to be technical to gain technical advantage. We'll probably never know...but I'll always be interested to find out.
I practice HEMA more in the sense of a sport; but this is art. True martial art.
Thank you for your kind words.
Would be nice to see hema-style protective gear worn and the combatants actually spar rather than this slowed down gentle tai chi style of practice - sure this has it's place, but it's a bit like learning to swim on land
Forget the protective gear, the gods demand blood sacrifice.
This is a common critique which, in my opinion, is based on a widespread misconception of what modern protective gear does, and what a realistic fight simulation should look like. I have recently addressed the subject here, if you are interested: www.patreon.com/posts/why-true-martial-74651230
I much prefer this Western style of fighting where you wear no armour and no helmet (unless you're in England where you have to) because it means you have to use a lot more control. There is a reason why it appears "slowed down", it's because they're trying to strike their opponent in specific spots with almost surgical precision without doing damage. In my opinion, it's a LOT more interesting to watch rather than the Hema guys. Like you said, it has its place, but I prefer this Western style over the Eastern/HEMA thing of being completely decked out in armour mindlessly swinging and clobbering each other.
@@CurryFeaturesExactly. Protective gear protects you. You aren't going to be protected in plain clothes with sharp swords. So it pays to be measured even if you're trying to defend yourself and incapacitate or kill your opponent.
You guys are dressed very cool, but the steel swords and regular clothing do take away from the intensity. I feel as though the duels would look much different if you wouldn't have to fear injuring eachother so much.
It is true that with protective equipment such as fencing masks, modern practitioners fence more recklessly. What makes you think that the removal of fear better reflects historical sword-fighting?
@@swordandshield Well there is fear for ones own wellbeing and that of another. Anyways I was just thinking about this scene I think from Gunnlaugs saga where Hrafn supposedly throws a cut that breaks Gunnlaugs shield. I know it may sound fantastical, but this is what they say.
@@faramund9865 Shields can indeed be destroyed, and holmgang rules recorded in 13th century Iceland suggest that this was even expected in this particular context. However, the holmgang is highly ritualised, and historical rule sets for duelling are often designed to provide a way out for combatants without maiming or killing. But shields being cut to pieces is also a standard in fight descriptions of high medieval court prose. Reality or literature topos? Exaggeration in combat sequences is as old as the Bible, and is still common place in modern media. At any rate, shield damages recorded by archaeology are less dramatic than we would expect. Some shields from the Illerup bog finds show repairs in the form of small patches of copper alloy sheet metal. Ingo Petri and myself discovered a couple of superficial cuts on the remains of a 12th century kite shield from Szczecin (see images here: www.patreon.com/posts/40123877). This suggests that perfect sense of measure was no less important in fighting with a shield than without one. As for the benefits of modern protective equipment, which allegedly allows for a more realistic combat simulation, I have addressed the subject here, if you are interested: www.patreon.com/posts/why-true-martial-74651230
@@swordandshield Thanks for the extensive answer!
.... fear of injury is one of the hallmarks of edged weapons. Having protective gear is good to protect you, but you aren't going to be protected when using sharp swords and that's the point.
It looks funny, but nothing more. This blade game is very far from fencing. This is not a fight.
Why ?
@@gotfrydzbouillon4191 playing with a blade without blows of a blade. In fencing, I will beat, but there is not a single blow here. Also, everything is at a very low speed.
This is a common critique which, in my opinion, is based on widespread misconceptions of what a realistic fight simulation should look like, and what is actual martial power. I have recently addressed the subject here, if you are interested: www.patreon.com/posts/why-true-martial-74651230
@@swordandshield Sorry, I know your position, you indicate it in your videos, but I am a fencer myself, so I note these points. For example. I will keep my distance from the enemy, approaching only to strike. You're "fighting" too close. It's game, but nothing more.
Tough fighting a lefties whe you're a rightie
Quite crap, very Hollywood style, buckler shield isn't really viking.
Yes. They seem to think Thalhofer knew anything about viking warfare (which he didint).