What Year Was This Globe Made?
2024 ж. 1 Мам.
166 071 Рет қаралды
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At a recent yard sale, I came across this seemingly vintage tin globe. In order to know its true value, I needed to figure out what year it comes from!
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About 4.5 billion years ago I think
Here at 7 likes
true....
I can confirm, i was there
no i think it’s younger than that
The good old days, when the Earth was hellfire and that was literally all it had going for it.
The pain I as a German felt because of you skipping over the big indicator of Germany being unified on that map which would've been the first indicator that it was pre-split and post 2ww due to its unclear border with Poland and the lack of the border going deeper into France before you even got to colonized Africa. 1945-1949. And that map was chosen not for its quirkyness, but to show how scattered the world looked after a world war.
The most interesting feature of this globe IMO
I was crying inside throughout the entire video when he missed East Prussia. Like, how does one even consider pre-WWII? I'm Polish, so I'm obviously more invested in that part of the world, but still, for such a geography buff as this channel is, that's a massive oversight.
Germany in the map is just kinda a blob. It doesn’t look like Pre-War or Post-1990 Germany.
Ich fühle mit dir bro
@@mikeg2306 yes it does. Poland’s shape is very recognisably its 1945 borders, particularly the Oder-Neisse border in the west. Everything east of that border is Germany, exactly the way Germany’s borders were decided to be made in 1945 before the country was separated in East and West. Also Berlin is shown as clearly part of a ‘normal’ contiguous Germany.
Certainly a lot of interesting choices made by the people behind the original map itself, but it can't be from before 1945/46 at the earliest; Poland & The USSR have their post-WWII borders (USSR annexed the eastern half of Poland after the initial invasion in 1939) -- and I even wanna say it's no older than 1948 -- Israel & Jordan (the map calls it Transjordan) were formed from the Mandate of Palestine, as well as Tibet being an independent nation -- but the oddness around India & Pakistan... and Bangladesh (then called East Pakistan) not even marked... Nevertheless, it's solidly representing the world in the first few years after WWII.
1948 is good estimation I think, because Germany stil is not divided between Western and Eastern parts, and this hapens in 1949.
My exact thoughts. I saw Poland with Post war borders, and Transjordan. Knew right away
Post WW2 European borders are actually bigest clue and im surprised he wasnt able to look at them more.
@@Bzhydack Yes, Germany is what got my attention. In addition, Korea wasn't in two either which split with the Korean War beginning in 1950.
wrong, there’s tanna tuva
This was really fun! Some other big clues not mentioned: Rio de Janeiro is still the capital of Brasil, making the original map pre-1960s. Germany is unified, making it pre-1950s. And Mt Everest's elevation is 29,002', the height from the Great Trigonometric Survey which puts it earlier than the 1955 survey.
Germany can't be pre 1950 cuz it has it's new borders, it should have Kaleningrad under it's control
@@Erty_ germany had those borders in the late 40s too
@@Erty_ Germany lost Eastern Prussia in '45 post WWII and during occupation of the allies. The GDR was founded in '49. This globe shows modern German borders (without Eastern Prussia) but pre east-west split, so it must be somewhere between '45 and '49. Okay, it actually shows German borders as sloppily drawn blob that doesn't even resemble Germany at all. But still, its eastern European lands are clearly lost.
@@littlerave86 exactly my thought haha
@@littlerave86 that's exactly what I said in a bit sloppy way what I meant is that the map shows Germany from today or 50s onward, if we don't count separation and he said that the map is prolly from 1930s so i just pointed that error out, even more you missed the fact that Czechoslovakia is missing Carpathian Ruthenia
Only one of the Chinese "name changes" is actually a change, they were just a different way to Romanise the Chinese words. For example, 新疆 is romanised as Sinkiang using postal romanisations and Xinjiang using Pinyin. The only name that was changed was 北平 (Peiping/Beiping) -> 北京 (Peking/Beijing). Edit: The romanisation system used here was not Wade-Giles but Chinese postal romanisations.
It's also worth noting that Beijing had always been called 北京 (Peking/Beijing) during the Qing Dynasty. It was only during the Republic of China (1912-49) that it was renamed as 北平 (Peiping/Beiping) because the character 京 means capital, where the ROC regime moved to 南京 (Nanking/Nanjing). After the communist takeover in 1949, as they moved the nation's capital back, it was renamed again, back to 北京 Beijing. I'm Taiwanese, so I'm super nerdy about it all 😅
Actually, Sinkiang is not from the Wade-Giles romanization, which would be Hsin-chiang. It is an older romanization based on the earlier Mandarin pronunciation of 新疆. This is also why Nanjing was spelled Nanking (it would be Nan-ching in Wade-Giles). To use a Pinyin-like spelling to describe historical sound changes, h-, g-, and k- turned into x-, j-, and q- respectively before i in virtually all Mandarin dialects. In addition, s-, z-, and c- also turned into x-, j-, and q- respectively before i. So Xinjiang, Nanjing, and Beijing used to be something like Singiang, Nanging, and Beiging to use a Pinyin-like spelling, which Europeans wrote as Sinkiang, Nanking, and Peking. These traditional spellings based on older Mandarin pronunciation were adopted by the Chinese postal service, so we call them Chinese postal romanizations.
Seeing the Japanese reading of Taikoku for Taipei is also quite interesting. Not sure if it qualifies as a name change since the characters are preserved but the romanization is from a different language.
no, oh may god. sin kiang is the non mandarin dialect spelling for xinjiang. while peking (peiking) is the non mandarin dialect spelling for beijing. like the name hong kong is from cantonese dialect while in mandarin hong kong called as xiang gang.
@@loks117 Sinkiang and Peking are indeed from older Mandarin. Some of the Chinese postal romanizations were indeed based on non-Mandarin varieties, such as Amoy for Xiamen based on the local Southern Min pronunciation, but many of them such as Chungking, Kiangsu, Nanking, Peking, Sinkiang, Tientsin, and Tsingtao were based on older Mandarin pronunciations, specifically the court dialect of the Qing Dynasty which was based on the southern variant of Mandarin spoken around Nanjing (although it shifted towards the Beijing variant towards the end of the Qing Dynasty). You can see that these names systematically correspond to the current Mandarin pronunciations Chongqing, Jiangsu, Nanjing, Beijing, Xinjiang, Tianjin, and Qingdao according to the sound changes I described. We can track these pronunciation changes because European missionaries and scholars produced descriptions of both the northern and southern variants of Mandarin during this time. We know that at least until the early nineteenth century, Xinjiang and Beijing were indeed pronounced something like Sinkiang and Peking. If Sinkiang is from a non-Mandarin variety, which one can it be? In Cantonese it would be Sun Keung. In Hokkien (Southern Min) it could be Sin-kiong or Sin-kiang, but why would it be based on the Hokkien pronunciation unless the name was spread through the Hokkien-speaking ports of the south? The Han Chinese in Xinjiang speak Mandarin. Xinjiang (literally 'New Frontier') was not historically a Chinese-speaking region, and the Han Chinese who moved there were from the Mandarin-speaking north. Similarly, there is no compelling reason that Peking could come from a non-Mandarin variety. It is Pak King in Cantonese and Pak-kia in Hokkien, so those are both out. Mandarin was already the imperial lingua franca during the Qing Dynasty and Europeans recorded the most of the place names according to the Mandarin pronunciations used at the time.
This is great! Although one thing to note is the borders of Europe seem to represent post-WW2 borders with a square-looking Poland with its border with Germany being along the Oder and Neisse rivers, and the Baltic countries being part of the Soviet Union, which they were only annexed by in 1940, before which they were all independent. This seems to be a map from right after the war ended, given how Hungary still owns Transcarpathia, a region the Soviets annexed in 1946. Considering this map is American I’m more inclined towards believing the accuracy of Europe than of South America.
Only one germany though
@@37wheels Germany wasn’t split into the two countries until october of 49 and was technically occupied but drawing the lines of occupation would be very complex
By 1940, Germany had annexed the entirety of Czechia. Something is a bit off in the map…
@@rykermoorcroft4474 And even into the 1960s, the "inner German border" was often shown as a faint white or dotted line, with East and West Germany otherwise the same color. Heck, maps of the 1950s-70s often used dotted lines to show Germany's interwar borders in Eastern Europe, too ... because West Germany didn't officially recognize the Oder-Neisse Line until -the reunification agreements in 1990.- _EDIT: the early 1970s Treaties of Warsaw and Moscow. (It was recognized again in the 1990 treaties around reunification.)_
I saw "Palestine," rather than "Israel," which was reestablished in 1948, then 'Ghana" rather than "Gold Coast," a transition that occurred in 1957. Gotta agree with the narrator that this globe is a decorative pastiche.
This thing clearly is anachronistic. At first, looking at Germany, I noticed that it lost everything east of the Oder-Neisse line, meaning WW2 was over and the Soviets had expelled the native German population to settle Poles there. Similarily the shape of Poland would also suggest post 1945, as the Soviets expelled the Poles of what was then eastern Poland to settle East Slavic people there. So my first guess was post 1945. However, at the same time, Italy still has all of Istria, which they also lost most of, after WW2, which would indicate the map was pre 1945. Also the fact, that the Baltic States are shown to be a part of the Soviet Union would mean, that the map is post June 1940. Then again, the map shows Finland still controlling the Karelian Isthmus, meaning the map would be pre March 1940. So everything on this map should probably be taken with a pinch of salt. If anything, this seems to be a case for EmperorTigerstar with his horrible map series.
Just looking at Europe map, you can see this globe was made after WW2, not in 1930s
His analysis was frustratingly slow, but yeah, I think it was just to highlight all parts of the globe.
Shows the map of Bulgaria before ww2
@@thecatsari9217 It has tones of mistkes.
@@Dayvit78 I like him a lot but it's safe to say, political geography is his absolute weakest point ;)
I love doing this with globes in antique shops! always so satisfying when you can narrow it down to an exact year too!
I do too! It’s so much fun.
Oh yeah... for me it's old maps that i dig. I have several, including some (reproductions) of age-of-sail maps, like one from Cook's voyages, and one of the (still hypothetical, at the time) northwest passage. Some of my favorite original ones that I've managed to get (well, I have two) are old British Ordinance Survey maps, which, on the smallest scale, are so detailed that they actually show the locations of not only each house, road, etc, in a town, but the individual TREES! I've heard that the Soviets actually had similarly accurate maps of parts of parts of Britian (probably based on those Ordinance maps, but with cyrillic notation) I'd love to get my hands on some of those! I also dig naval charts. I inherited some from my grandfather (who was a USN Captian) of Puget Sound (near Seattle, where I live.)
um, can't you look at the copyright date on most of them? they're commercial publications, they have that sort of thing on them, at least for the US in the 20th century.
@@perfectallycromulent Aw geez... copyright protection does not apply th the resale of previously purchased products that used that copyright, and doesn't limit "fair use: (in several different ways)- one is not obligated to pay royalties, or not use protected intellectual property in every instance... Copyright owners are not protected from the resale of used products: when people buy or sell used maps/buils/etc that are still under copyright. Copyright protection was enacted in order to prevent competitors from abrogating to themselves creative and/or intellectual property outside of fair use, and doestn expire like patent protection, etc- though the onus is on the owner to renew such protections (see: Mickey Mouse- for real- the litigation of the scope of intellectual property (and copyright) makes Disney a good example of the confusion between trademark, copyright, intellectual property, fair use, first ammendment protections, etc, etc. It is nuanced. Not simple. Check it out.
@@perfectallycromulent that ruins the fun. also you'd be surprised how many of them you can't find the dates on
I remember at my school there was a globe one of the teachers had that was from the 30s. And it was a real authentic globe too. It was way more accurate, it looked aged, and it even went as far as showing Japanese occupied territories on the eve of WWII. It showed Aunchlussed Austria, invaded Czechoslovakia, Tanu Tuva, everything. What I also found interesting was that it said the names of cities in their native languages or the latinized versions of them. The globe even claimed it was “fast, accurate, up to date” but nowadays it’s a very interesting relic.
What I really love about your exploration and analysis of when this globe was made, is that you did not simply stop at arriving at the date, but drawing some pretty pertinent conclusions about the motivations behind making/selling/buying that globe.
But, as many have pointed out, the analysis of the map is likely incorrect as it seems to be indicating a post ww2 world instead of early 1930s. His whole conclusion hinges around the idea of romanticizing the pre ww2 imperialist world, yet the map is more likely just highlighting the world immediately following the war. An unstable and quickly changing world where many places were gaining autonomy and independence and the biggest threat the USA faced was the Soviet Union. We don't need to go out of our way to find reasons to criticize imperialism, but this is just a "vintage" post war map sold in the 60s while the greatest generation was decorating their houses and showing their kids the victory they won in ww2
I think the conclusions were interesting, but it was a bit hair-raising he didn't look over central Europe at all when it was the biggest hint that his guess as to the date the globe is supposed to represent is clearly off.
I think it’s more like 1946, Europe has its post-WWII borders while India and Pakistan are both shown (with modern names & mostly modern borders) yet still under British Rule, and Tannu Tuva exists. At least some time between 1945 and ‘47, when India and Pakistan became independent
Yes exactly since name Pakistan is there so it can't be older then 1945
But Tannu Tuva was annexed in 1944. Also Ethiopia is shown as part of Italian Africa
Given the innacuracues on the map its possible that it was made between 45 and 47 but the printer didn't get all the infornatuon about recebt boarder movements before it went to print
Pakistan isn't under brittish rule it is a dominion under the brittish monarch just like Canada , it was domino from 1947 till 1952 with Israel being a thing it must be from 1948/1949 plus it isn't an accurate map
Except Finland has it's pre-WW2 borders.
It's a weird one for sure, but I think it's a globe of immediate post WW-2 situation that deliberately chose not to show the complicated occupation and civil war situations in various places (Germany, East Asia, Italy/Yugoslavia border, etc). Chaco still belonging to Bolivia instead of Paraguay might because the globe maker just copy pasted South America from an older map/globe lol
Oh I love this game! 'When was this globe/map made"
It's almost certainly c. 1948 - 1949. India and Pakistan have split (1947), although the split is so new they haven't been given different colors yet. Same with Israel and Transjordan (1948). Labrador having its own color means it's before Newfoundland joined Canada in 1949 (even if Newfoundland itself is the wrong color). Poland has its current borders, so it's post-1945, and Germany has its current borders (definitely NOT it's pre-WW2 borders), so it has to be the time frame where it was under Allied occupation, but before the de facto split into East and West (so between 1945 and 1949). It's definitely not pre-WW2, as Germany's and Poland's borders would be significantly different (note, no East Prussia!), Pakistan would not exist (it was nothing more than an aspirational idea by the Muslim League until the 1946 plebiscite asking Indian Muslims if they wanted their own state), and Israel and Transjordan would be the Mandate of Palestine. But it's still riddled with inaccuracies - the Paraguay - Bolivia border not being updated from the Chaco War, Tannu Tuva still there (granted, news out of central South America and Siberia was slow those days!) Things like Ethiopia having the borders of Italian East Africa and thus somehow owning southern Somalia just shows the designer was just being sloppy with updating borders and couldn't be bothered to double check things and get it all right. Added note: for those pointing out things like Finnish Karelia or Hungarian Ruthenia, you have to realize it's easy to forget/neglect to update map changes in the past, but hugely improbable to correctly predict and add things from the future. Until 1946/7, Pakistan was just a name that existed only in the minds of the Muslim League - with the British vehemently opposed to partition, no map maker would be putting it on their map as even a remote possibility (unless this Ohio globemaker was for some reason very sympathetic to Indian Muslims) until it was a fait accompli. Similarly with Israel (although, ironically, the plan there was *for* partition, not against), although that would have been at least a bit more reasonable to predict. With Pakistan and Israel on the map, there's simply no way this can be before 1947-8.
It should be 1946-1947 because East Bengal is shown as India not Pakistan so partition border is not fully decided
@deepakmishra9535 it can't be before 1948 because it has Israel instead of Palestine. I'm assuming the East Bengal issue was just the same sloppiness/lack of research as the other oddities like Tannu Tuva and the Paraguay/Bolivia border.
If it were 48-49 German would be split, and the USSR would be a lot bigger.
@Superiorplatypus Germany wasn't legally split until 1949, and where, exactly, outside Tannu Tuva, would the USSR be bigger? It's at its 1945 - 1991 borders everywhere else - at 1:15 the Baltic states and Kaliningrad are obviously within Soviet borders, and the Poland - USSR border is much nearer Warsaw than Kiev. So it has to be post-1945. Poland having its post-1945 borders is the big tell that it's after WW2.
@@thomasrinschler6783 But not much after since Hungary has Transcarpathia, which it lost in 1946. Also Romania still has Bessarabia.
As a geography nerd this is really fun! You should do more of these as a more casual series, or maybe even livestream the process so we can join in!
So I was using xkcd's map dating flow chart as you were going over this and thus far my guesses are 1935-1940 (if there is no Pakistan) 1952-1953 (if there is Pakistan but no Cambodia) 1960-1964 (if there is Pakistan and Cambodia) Annnd there's Pakistan but no Cambodia, which means 1952-1953 are my final guesses. Eritrea is part of Ethiopia, not Italy, and most of western Africa is "a giant French blob" (flow chart wording). Now to watch the rest of the video and not be constantly skipping back and forth to see countries. EDIT: okay, gotta admit, that was a twist. Great video! (And speaking of being upstate, if you get a chance to make a road trip toward Syracuse, we've got a museum called The Living Fossil that you might want to check out.)
I don't think the map on this globe can be dated properly, because it seems to contain many errors. Germany is drawn as single entity, not BRD/GDR split, so it must be prior to '49. Yet, it doesn't contain its eastern European lands anymore, which were lost in '45. So, if you go by Pakistan/Cambodia and land at 52-53, then go by Germany and land at 45-49, there must be something off.
Pakistan got it independence but remained under the crown in 1947 and still had a king till 1952
Based on other comments, I’m putting it at the late part of the 1935-1940 range, as Germany includes the Sudetenland (given to Germany late ‘38) but not Czechia (occupied by Germany early ‘39) but the Baltics are the same color as USSR (annexed by USSR in 1940).
@@littlerave86 That split wasn't always shown the same as other borders, though. I have a late 50s/early 60s globe that shows East and West Germany the same color -- but with a slightly-faint _white_ line dividing them. Back then, the division of Germany wasn't fully accepted as a "permanent" thing yet. I've seen similar in '50s-'60s atlases and encyclopedias, too; one Rand-McNally atlas I have shows it as a dotted red line with yellow highlighting, when all other borders are shown National Geographic-style. Heck, atlases from back then often _also_ show Germany's pre-WW2, pre-Anschluss borders in Eastern Europe (usually as faint dotted lines of some kind, in a contrasting color from "real" borders), because West Germany never officially accepted the Oder-Neisse Line -- or Germany's loss of territory to Poland and the USSR -- until the reunification agreements of 1990.
@@AaronOfMpls Fair points.
I seriously did this with my friend with an old globe of his grandfather's. It took over an hour without wikipedia and was so much fun. A really cool and pretty easily-recreated experience!
I don’t see the map as romanticising the era of the 1930s, but more of historical interest. I personally find old maps fascinating.
Interesting to see you make a video on a subject that I'm very familiar with for a change. It almost has to be 1945 or 1946. Oder-Neisse border between Germany and Poland confirms post victory in europe day; Germany officially still one country (Under allied occupation), Korea one country (no 38th parallel yet), everything points at the war being over, but the post-war order not quite being as established as we're used to. The war was over and a new order was on the horizon, but everything that was about to change as a result of the fallout of the war hadn't started to play out yet. Very interesting globe indeed. I think a lot of the mistakes you mentioned (and there are more that you didn't mention) are the result of this massive shift in what the world looked like, the need to immediately reflect this in new globes, and probably overlooking changes in some parts of the world that were considered less important.
Though it also would depends on who made the map. Plenty of German maps from the 50s and I think even 60s that show the old imperial borders with listing Pomerania and Silesia as "under Soviet administration" but still very much part of Germany.
Looking at Europe, those are very clearly the modern Polish borders. There's no way somebody making a map for the 1930s would miss Ostpreussen/Polish corridor, so it must be intended to be after WW2 (with many mistakes). The fact that there's no East Germany also seems hard to miss, so I'd date it in the late 40s
It’s possible that there was less icky reason to buy that globe in the 60s. Side by side 60s and 30s maps would help an adult who learned their geography before the name changes be sure to match the new country names to the historical context they knew by a different name.
You’re giving boomers way too much credit…
@@ajduker you really don't know what constitutes a boomer
@Jake from State Farm someone after WW2 that grew up or raised children in the "golden years" is a boomer. This is the perfect time period for "boomers" to be in control of these things. You're delusional bro.
@@ajduker the toddlers? Boomers didn’t remember the 30s. They were born in the post WWII baby boom….
The reason he gave isn't icky at all.
Hello from Tuva! You've actually mentioned my homeland in your video before, well, kinda. The video you made about ice age steppes mentions how there are still places on earth that somewhat resemble ancient steppes. Tuva is one of them! And yes the name on the globe is an error. Love your videos
Tuva is one of the most interesting obscure countries there is.
To answer your question as to why someone would think back fondly to 1933, I think there is a more innocent answer. The map was from about 30 years before it was produced. The globe appears to be playing on the 30-year nostalgia cycle, a 20-year cycle if we assume schools did not update their globs very often. The good old days may well have been childhood and when relatives who died in WWII were still living.
Hey. He was way over reading into a fake vintage globe. Dude also has old maps in his background.
Caelen--thanks for making this channel. I've enjoyed it and learned a lot. I remember my first globe back in 1984.
Loved this video!! I would really enjoy videos just regarding old globes and maps, trying to understand what time they belong to like in this video!! It was interestong and entertaining as I was trying to guess myself. Hope you will bring back something like this again!
I was onboard when we were just trying to guess the age of the globes, didn’t expect to go into a rabbit hole of nostalgia globes.
Seeing Germany not in its imperial form, weimar form, nazi form or in the divided form i think it's just after WW2, between 1945-1949, moreover, korea is also not divided meaning its before 1950 India becoming independent in 1947, this shortens it to 1945-1947. Tannu Tuva got annexed in 1944, so maybe it's of 1945 just after the war ended and the map makers forgot to update this detail. The Paraguan factor makes it even more confusing given that Chaco war was between 1932 to 1935 but germany is not in its weimar form but in post ww2 form It's possible that the map maker ignored the paraguan change against the big ww2 chnage. so maybe between 1945-1947. A lot of errors are present in this map. Edit : This was one of the best videos, you got my like.
Its a good day when atlas posts since he only post 1 a month
when you mentioned the date of the establishment of "Little America" was 1929, I was like "Doesnt that, (especially combined with the rest of the prior facts) make the make date 1930 or 31?
All the borders of Europe would disagree with that
The whole of South Asia confuses me on this globe. Burma separated from the rest of the British Raj in 1937, Thailand changed its name from Siam in 1939, and yet, India wasn't partitioned until independence (aka, why is Pakistan on this map?). Meanwhile, the Bolivia-Paraguay war ended in 1935, which further complicates things. Finally, crazy stuff would have been happening in Europe at the time, with Germany's takeover of Austria occurring in 1938 kicking off 7 years of changing borders. That's also definitely a post-WWII Poland... In conclusion, it feels like accuracy wasn't a number 1 goal of this globe, making dating it really hard. Edit: Yep, that final conclusion makes a lot of sense lol. No wonder why it was so confusing.
Atlas Pro, I think you got them all. Newfoundland was a separate dominion. I remembered something when I saw the US part. My great grandfather bought a set of encyclopedia in 1897 and the maps are crazy in places like Africa. There was 1 difference in the US. It included Indian Territory in part of Oklahoma.
And no Hawaiian or Alaskan states and the Pacific Islands associated with the US and Japan are different
I have one of those globes. I always thought the inaccuracies were strange so learning about the story of the product makes it make sense now
Loved the video!!! I will ask as I keep asking on every new video, I would absolutely die to see a Biogeography of New Zealand video!!! Your videos literally inspired me to go to uni for GIS, I am serious about that. Your content is so personally touching to me as someone interested in biogeography. Make the NZ videoooo ❤
This is a fun change of pace for the channel! Awesome video concept!
I love this! Great sleuthing. In the 1970s my family had an old-seeming globe that I used to spend hours looking at. It wasn’t exactly like the one you have here, but it was metal. I have no idea where it came from or how old it was; for all I know, it might have been my dad’s from his childhood in the 1930s/1940s. Maybe it was an inaccurate reproduction, though. I was a stamp-collector and used to look up the countries on the globe to figure out where they were. I was always confused when I couldn’t find a country on the map, not realizing that countries ever changed names. I don’t think I figured any of that out until I took World Geography in the 8th or 9th grade. I was confused by learning country names that were different from the names on the globe at home. When we learned a little about the history of certain countries, I’d discover why so many countries had changed their names. I wonder if I have that globe in a box somewhere. I’ll have to dig through some boxes of old stuff in my storage unit…
Figuring out when old maps were made is one of my favorite past times. Would love to see more of it
Hey Atlas, i wanted to get a little personal. Last year, around August, was when I discovered your channel. It was a really hard time because I had just failed class and had to leave all my friends behind and start the year all over again. Your channel honestly got me through it all, it taught me so much and sparked an interest in geology which I never thought i would have. I wanted to thank you for getting me through a hard part of my life, and just say to keep making these wonderful videos!
Dude bought a random globe and held my interest talking about it for 20 minutes. Unbelievable... Subbed.
XKCD 1688 is a good guide to tell how old any map is. according to this, the map is from 1952/1953 depending on what inaccuracies you want to keep. edit: more like 1935-1940 due to other semantics
It's definitely from before 1949. Otherwise Europe is completely different then depicted, Tibet wouldn't be a thing, Transjordan wouldn't exist. The partition of India.
It is probably 1948/1949
Using XKCD 1688, we can narrow down the age of the map (not the age of the physical globe) pretty well: - Istanbul (not Constantinople) - USSR exists - West Africa mostly a single blob - Pakistan is noted but not separate from British India (for flowchart purposes, “no”) - One Germany (not huge, but see below) - Iran, not Persia This dates it 1935-1940. 1952/53 is impossible. One Germany (with capital at Berlin) precludes the possibility of being after April 1945. “West Germany” and “East Germany” wouldn’t exist until 1949, but were divided between Allied powers immediately. However, note that Germany is looking a little bloated (not huge) at the expense of Czechoslovakia’s Sudetenland. This dates the map between October 1938 (capture of Sudetenland) and March 1939 (when Czech part was captured by Germany and Slovakia declared itself a separate Slovak republic). This might also explain why Ohio Arts was interested in *THIS MAP* as a reproduction-it is literally a world on the eve of WWII.
@@imjashingyou3461 more Like 1989 Germany is reunited but the Soviet Union IS still there
@@Matthew-kg8nl thanks for the corrections. original comment has been updated.
I knew the time period before 2 minutes in as soon as I caught a glimpse at the shape of Germany. It's very clearly visible at 02:22 if anyone is interested. Iconic
You knew it wasn't worth much when he started tossing it around like a beach ball.
old maps are so fun to look at, it gives an idea of what the world was like back then
I always enjoy how you tell us the story of whatever topic it is that you present to us. You pose the question and then take us on this whole journey of your findings that may not be the actual answers on their own but do logically bring us closer step by step.
I think the map is post ww2 but before settlement of borders. Something that may be being shown is the Saarland as a part of France in Europe. Post ww2 the Saarland was split from Germany and there was some discussion about it being absorbed by France, but it ended up returning to Germany.
Chilean here, Valparaíso and Concepción are misspelled on the globe 😅
Oh shit, all these years playing the Hearts of Iron series has finally paid off as I know of the existence of Tannu Tuva even before watching this lmao.
That was a really great video :) Unique topic, personal reference, good research and a differentiated conclusion
First thought: "oh shit is that the same globe I have?" Nope, I don't have French West Africa. But I do have the United Arab Republic. Heck, I love old globes. e: I also have the same Labrador/Newfoundland weirdness, and even though the borders of Yemen have changed the printed area is colored identically (ie the white bit doesn't match the red borders). Definitely same globe producer, only a few years later. e again: I think you're reading a bit much into things with your conclusion - one is totally allowed to print a map of "this is the world as it was in X year" without adding "gosh those were the good old days" into it. I would also add a healthy amount of "the mapmaker didn't really give enough of a damn about being perfectly accurate when updating the globe" as well (not to mention it's a cheap stamped metal thing)- Mine is definitely newer than yours. I have Suriname BUT also still British Guiana, I have Taiwan but also Sinkiang and Manchuria, and I have a divided Korea but also Tannu Tuva. Anyway, loved the video, I spent the whole thing with my own globe beside me checking out what was different and what was the same, haha. Course I'm a bit disappointed to learn it's probably a decade newer than I thought it was, given I thought I had it nailed down with the U.A.R. only existing for like two years.
It seems to have been printed in the early 1950s, since those borders in Europe are those of post-WW2, but Africa and SEA are pre-decolonization. I doubt a mapmaker in the 1930s would have been able to make Europe so inaccurate as to predict its future. The shape of Poland is a dead giveaway. Discrepancies to more obscure parts of the world like Paraguay or Tannu Tuva are likely due to word not having got around, since that information likely wasn't very easy to find.
It's before 1951 because Tibet exists (and Taiwan isn't separate). Mostly likely immediately after WWII. I'm thinking 1948 since Israel exists, but it could have been in discussion so 1946-1947 is acceptable too.
@@Dayvit78 My point is that you can't take a possibly outdated feature as 100% fact. Map makers (especially before the internet) don't have 100% comprehensive knowledge of modern changes. The only thing you can base years off of are the most recent known change.
It's definitely post-WW2, probably close to it using multiple contradictory sources which only recognised some of the recent border changes.
I was in elementary school in the ‘60’s. Our district took geography very seriously, & it was my favorite subject. That said, trying to keep up with border & name changes was tough! Asa I saw your globe, I thought ‘60’s. Inexpensive metal globes like yours were everywhere-probably in the Sears Christmas Wish book, a major source of gift inspiration, Lol. I enjoyed the video. Ty
Absolutely loved this video, so pleaaaase make more of these!
could also be that the 30s was the world before both world wars railed it into a mass murdering machine that everyone was very publicly against by the 60s, also 30s was the last era of exploration, when the world was still wildly unknown but almost entirely accessible, but who knows maybe im racist
It’s a badly made map with dozens of inaccuracies meant to show the world between 1945 and 1949, i’m really not sure what’s with his attempt at psychological analysis over a cheap product that probably just didn’t have a lot of work put into it.
Just from the thumbnail, I'd say 1945, since the baltic states are included in the USSR, but India has not been partitioned.
As always, cool video! Love your content! 💚
Loved this video. This is lowkey one of my favorites of yours.
Ohio Art Co. school globe, not a retro. It had a base with the Zoldak on it. The border of Paraguay is likely a disputed zone . The establishment of Indonesia and a lack of East/West Germany in addition to numerous other observations suggests that it dates between 1950 - c.1954 and is most likely from 1950-1951. This was fun, thank you.
You caused me to take a look at the globe I have. It's a 9" globe from The George F Cram Co. Looking at their web site, the globe seems to be from 1950. That was fun :)
3$ for a 20 minute video is a fucking steal.
Do more of these, thoroughly enjoyed the concept!
Okay, I've got it stopped at 0:26 and I want to say it's from the 1950s. India and Pakistan have been separated, but most of Africa still looks like it has colonial borders. Could maybe also be the '60s. Edit: Wow, kinda right for the wrong reasons.. lol. Great video, man. 👏👏👏
I recently watched all your content, and the thing is I’m not a biologist or geologist I’m a computer science major lol, thanks for the content
Same! I'm a Computer Science major but also a huge geography nerd.
Great stuff! Excellent demonstration of how to use geographical and historical reasoning. I like the emphasis on looking out for conflicting lines of thought, anachronisms, etc. after reaching your first conclusions to get a a more accurate answer at the end. Would love to see more videos like this.
As a history nerd, I could already tell by just looking at first glance the period of creation of the globe. Honestly, I would love to buy these kind of globes. They're so interesting to see how the world looked at some point in history.
I was wondering if it was really older than the 50 considering Alaska and Hawaii were both included as states
man I love doing this whenever I see an old globe. I don't know why but it's way more fun than with a map, despite globes really just being spherical maps
The question of Newfoundland and Labrador being different colors could just be an error on the globe. I agree. This is a very cool episode!
Wow, this really took a turn I wasn't expecting. Great job, thank you!
This was a fascinating video! I learnt loads about how to date a globe and how history shapes geography. I liked how you used maps and animations to illustrate your points and make them easy to follow. Well done on getting it for $3!! Thank you for making this video and sharing your knowledge! 👍🌎
You give them too much credit, I think. More likely, they just chose the cheapest globe-ready map they could find to print on their mass-produced geegaw.
Truly fascinating, great video!
Thank you. The video's over-all point is very timely. A great watch!
I think you projected way too much onto that globe at the end lmao
As soon as I saw Tuva, I knew it was before 1944 but after 1911. Most obscure communist country to have existed. (My dates are not exact in memory, only approximate)
Thanks for the awesome content and great video!!
That has been a fascinating journey. Thanks for the video.
A lot of just bad history in this. The baltics and Poland are colonized by the Soviets so it must be post WWII. Pakistan is formed pointing at that age as well. Germany has its post WWII borders although the map maker clearly thinks east west won’t last. China is blue and united meaning the civil war is most likely ongoing thus why the map maker hasn’t picked a new capital. Korea is independent as well. The map design is from at least 1947 you could narrow it down with Indian city names. As someone who hunts for maps in estate sales old features are often left on you need to look for the most modern changes to find out a date.
One should not automatically assume that any map is an accurate representation of the political situation of when it was printed. Some changes take a while to be incorporated, and there may be idiosyncrasies favoring certain agendas.
I thought this was gonna be a random shitpost but by the end, I feel like this is my favorite video made from Atlas Pro.
I checked your channel only yesterday in order to find some videos. And now I'm granted with a new one. Keep up a good job 👍
Great detective work on Newfoundland and Labrador. My Newfie friends are impressed. I see that it depicts Alaska and Hawaii as States, making it post 1959, but Formosa as Japanese colony, making it pre-1946. I don't think the globe intended to state Changchun as the capital of China, but as the capital of the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo, with Puyi, the Last Qing Emperor, as the head of state. Puyi had a half-brother who lived until 2015. I also don't see this globe as an imperial throwback. People adapted to changes more slowly back then, for a variety of reasons. I still have my Ohio Art globe coin bank I received brand new as a present in 1978.
Nice find. Fun quest. Good story. You gave up on Europe too early though. A unified Germany would have given you a clear clue toward a map date prior to WW2. You glanced right past it, but it was the first identifying historical detail that really caught my attention.
It's a unified Germany, but in the present-day borders, not the pre-WW2 borders. That indicates it's Germany post-WW2 under Allied occupation, but not yet formally split into East and West.
@@thomasrinschler6783 Hard to tell since he never focused on it. It looked like Weimar Germany to me. I may watch it again to see if I can tell what Poland looked like. That would be a clue. The East/West split of Germany happened rather quickly after the war, at least in map-makers time.
@@stantheman9072 no, it doesn't have east Prussia, Sylesia Pomerania and other stuff, also look at the shape of Poland and USSR. Before ww2 their borders looked very different.
@@TheSorryDude Yes, Poland’s borders were further East then, but it’s a sloppy and cheap map, probably an amalgamation, with lots of mistakes. Besides, it was just an observation. I think he nailed it pretty well with other his clues. There was nothing definitive about my glance at Germany; just enough to want to have a closer look, which he didn’t do.
Absolutely amazing video man! ThankU
I noticed that Ethiopia was 1, the same color as Italy, the country which tried and failed to colonize it, and which claimed to "colonize" it when it briefly occupied part of it during World War 2 (which is like saying Germany colonized Russia in World War 2), which I figured must've just been a dumb decision which made the map more confusing, but with what you said the end of the video about it being kinda looking back at colonialism with nostalgia, it may have been intentionally and inaccurately labeling Ethiopia as being controlled by Italy. And 2, it controls both Eritrea, which it didn't when the Italians had conquered Eritrea but after they got it back they did up until a few decades ago when Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia, and also Ethiopia controlled all of Somalia, which has never happened. What is now Somaliland was British Somaliland, what is now Djibouti was French Somaliland, what is now the clusterfuck which on a map is Somalia was Italy's Somalian colony, and at no point did Ethiopia control that (although at times it certainly did control the land of Djibouti and some of Somaliland, the first country which Ethiopia can be clearly traced back to, the Kingdom and later Empire of Axum, was generally in what is now Eritrea, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Somaliland after all). the only time that Somalia and Ethiopia were under the same administration was during the Italian occupation in World War 2 when they combined Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Somalia into "Italian East Africa" (it also was only all of this on a map, in reality they only controlled part of Ethiopia, much of it was still under the control of freedom fighters/rebels/whatever you wanna call them, but they were able to get the government to go into exile and they declared that they had won). between coloring Ethiopia the same color as Italy and the borders matching up with Italian East Africa, I think that they wanted to depict it as being colonized despite that simply being wrong, as in a map of Africa at that time Ethiopia was the one big blaring part of the continent which wasn't colonized by Europeans (although it sure was conquered by an expansionist empire, that empire was just Ethiopia itself)
Can yall Ethiopia apologists go one comment without mentioning your convoluted and highly subjective definition of what "occupation" vs "colonialisation" is?
Dude... Pakistan doesn't appear on maps before 1947 August.
The most outstanding part for me is Germany being shown with its modern day borders but not being divided into East and West Germany. That hints at that (at least the European part of) this globe shows a time between 1945 and 1949.
They still make stuff like this, I used to work at Home Goods and they have globes with maps that weren't accurate. Unfortunately I think you're overthinking it, I don't think the people who made it cared exactly what time period the map was from. I wish it was cool like that though!
I knew it's from 46-48 by China alone
I had it between ww1 and ww2, but Germany and Poland did not look right. That really confused me.
My guess is around 1947-1951 but this map has so many anachronistic borders it's almost impossible to know for sure but late 1940s to maybe the early 50s is probably the best guess i've got
I play this game with an old globe I got from somewhere. I managed to narrow it down to the late 50s/early 60s. It’s fun to watch others try to puzzle it out.
xkcd has already done this :)
What if the manufacturer specializes in making globes with outdated maps? Or is too lazy to do it? I mean people who buy globes may not be too picky if it is for decor reasons. Is there a law forcing globe manufacturers to only use the newest map always?
You're the best creator in this type of content! I just ❤ it
This made me remember a world map jigsaw puzzle that I was gifted as a kid in the 90s. My mum pointed out multiple out dated names/borders in it while it was still brand new. Some products just aren't made for accuracy, even if they claim to be educational.
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@AtlasPro I loved your exploration of the globe but not your conclusions. Seems like a stretch to infer a bunch of judgements about a globe in the 60's made with a map from the 30's using your morality from the 2020's.
The borders of Germany and Poland are post-ww2, it can’t be depicting anything earlier than 1945.
This was such a fun video! I'd personally love if you did more of these. Every time I'm out at an antique store, I play this game with my girlfriend.
A more charitable potential reading is that it's not the Colonial situation that's been idealised, but rather the pre-WW2 situation. Given the scars on the world from that, the 60s isn't so weird to miss the interwar years.
This is definitely depicting a post-WW2 world, not a pre-WW2 world. Germany, Poland, and the Soviet Union only gained those borders after the war. It would also make more sense to be nostalgic for that era, before the iron curtain fell, and the decolonial era, but after the end of the brutalities of WW2.
The hoi4 players are laughing at you