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When this gun first released, my inner fanboy had me freaking out.. Few years later, and I now realize this weapon really didn't need to come back.
It wasn't a mistake to bring it back at all.
Did everyone forget how hard guardian takedown was before the nerf and new weapons it was nearly impossible hell I think more weapons need a buff instead
The Harold was remembered in BL2 fondly because it wasn't any strong gun, it was THE strong gun. If you got a Dpuh with a matching grip, it was very rare for anything else to outperform it. In BL3, every gun is bananas dummy strong, making it feel like just another weird funky-firing gun. Especially when gearbox just sprinkles magic damage dust over it for no real reason. It doesnt feel powerful for the same reasons as 2's.
I mean, theres plenty of options in this game as is. You don't gotta use it if you dont want to.
If I made multiple enemies in the game one shot you and told you that in order to get around it you should just choose not to fight them, we'd be having an entirely different conversation right now.
I mean, there's a lot of build variety and that's what I liked, yes it's true Harold likes to one shot, but it's up to you to use it, to put it in your build, like mentioned with the free rad, you could use the Harold, at least it's not bl2 NEEDED quality
Who cares about your bad opinion about a gun gearbox put into the game due to popular request. BL 3 sucks and as a community we should not be promoting the game. If we hope that BL4 will be better we shouldn’t be worried about 1 crappie gun that one KZheadr is bitching about in his latest video.
@EpicNNG The difference is that what you use in your arsenal is completely player choice it's arguably a form of player expression in a game about shooting and looting. Enemies one shoting you unless you ignore them conflicts the rest of the games design on a conceptual level.
Why is this case special again? They have done a similar thing with every returning gun from nearly every game why is the harold not being a 1 to 1 recreation trigger the alarm bells? I just don't get so many takes in this video. Gbx was notorious for shipping weapons that underperformed thats why all the historical legendary buffs were notable in the first place the harold wasn't alone in that and neither was the idea of it being buffed and becoming insane either. I don't even get why the gun has to even be compared to its previous iterations because not only was the gun different the rest of the game/sandbox was too multipliers, enemy scaling, gun parts, everything was different and its not like its the best gun in this game either its just one of the best which i think is perfectly fine place for it there are so many builds that make much statistically worse guns complete the same content with just as much ease so i really just dont see a point in all the fuss especially considering that at the end of the day you don't even have to pick it up off the ground.
The way I see it if the awful humor and writing of bl3 is excusable because it's "on brand for borderlands" then how is this not also on brand for the series? Bl2 had a bunch of returning or revamped guns from bl1. BLTPS had alot of copied or revamped guns. It's not like this is the first time it's been done, and it's nice that there is a powerful viable gun that's easy to farm. The free radical is good, but it's locked behind mayhem levels and a raid. The Harold can be had without mayhem and offers players more choice at endgame, if you nerf the Harold, then the radical needs a nerf too, and I'd argue the radical needs a nerf the most because it's just a power crept beacon/hellfire. The Harold stands on its own among other torgue pistols and doesn't make things like the prompt critical feel useless by comparison.
I think fundamentally the reason this came back in Bounty of Blood is the cowboy aesthetic, as it was a reference to Dirty Harry who was played by Clint Eastwood who is prominent in western films in general and it's a big bad revolver type weapon, so that makes sense. The design being different also I think makes sense just b/c it uses BL3 parts instead of BL2 ones, same way as BL2 weps look utterly different from BL1 weps. That said however, it should have just been functionally the same. I 100% agree that it should be nerfed to be more in line w/ other weapons, and I am looking forward to trying a rebalanced version of the game with far more viable options in builds. I do personally enjoy the Harold as I like the punch of the big revolver, but I am also just as partial to the Moonfire and similar weps for a similar purpose, not necessarily just because it's "The Harold", I just like big hand cannons and weapons that can roll cryo since I run cryo themed builds for almost every character. As for a more specific take though regarding balance, I think the weapon power level in general should be relative to a couple things: How much ammo do they use per shot, how difficult is it to optimally land all projectiles, does it take a major playstyle adjustment to use the weapon, does it have some sort of drawback or specific way to use it to get the most out of it, does it have a specific character interaction, how difficult is it to attain the weapon, etc. I def think some weapons should be more powerful than others, but it should be relative to each character. I think "plug and play" weapons are just generally badly designed for an RPG type game like Borderlands. "Generalized" weapons should be weaker than niche specific options that require proper building and interactions to get the most out of them. I cannot imagine the herculean task it is to balance BL3 when there's so many weapons I can't even remember all of them and find new ones that I didn't even know about all the time, so keep on keeping on.
I think bringing back old items is fine and giving them a new spin is too. As long as playing around to see what choices/stats make them more powerful is fun I'm happy
I like the new Harold, but it does exist in a game where it didnt need to. I messed with it for a little while, but the Roisen's Thorns is my Torgue gun of choice in BL3. (Helps I got one at lv15 on my first playthru and I use it on every new character since) I do like its tight spread over the wider BL2 version, but the difference in weapons/damage from 2 to 3 is night and day. I will say its a plus that we got away from having to incorporate slag to deal damage in the endgame. The REAL sad story is BL3 version of the Flakker. I genuinely had alot of fun with that gun in BL2, so I was excited and then just as quickly disappointed after I got it the first time in 3. I just wasnt a fan of Torgue weapons in general in 3, outside of Roisen's thorns, Harold and critical. But theyre 3 fairly similar guns in function- they pistol that shoot and go boom.
I remember using the Flakker in my Moze build at launch, it was a great gun that was good at clearing trash. Then they nerfed it and I just felt no reason to use it anymore. I also remember them nerfing the Butcher as well, which was another gun I used. They had the nerve to buff a different shotgun and say "we felt that shotguns needed more love all around"
@@c00LKIDsix9 the butcher is still really good though- moze has better options but it's perfect for flak
i love the harold in bl2 and making it be the strongest pistol in bl3 does make sense when you look at bl2 but i agree that it did not need to come back or at least could have been reimagined at the very least
The real issue is that they didnt have an actual dpuh that you could get
Moze be summoning Cub like she's a mech god
How’d you get those bl3 assets at the beginning? Just port them yourself?
Yeah I do all the porting myself. You can find a video more in depth on my channel. Just look up my UE5 Fyrestone Remake
I bought Wonderlands because of your Wonderlands Redux Mod, Loved it. I tried your BL3 Mod but its too heavy for me, so went with Balands Complete Mod, which is middle ground from Vanilla to Redux.
Its like the maggie but it explodes and can roll elements
they could've introduced the bite sized which would've been perfect for dlc3. if they couldn't keep harold like it former selve
Nostalgic items are like old friends. When they come back and they're not as good as they used to be, it makes you sad. "No, look what they did to my boy!" At the very least, make nostalgic items balanced.
I can't wait for the mayhem mod
Here's the most unpopular opinion with the Harold coming back: They should've given us the .88 Fragnum from The Pre-Sequel instead. It's got a better name and I think it would've fit way better as a weapon especially with the Tongue sticky rounds
I don't care I just like to play the game, especially since gearbox doesn't seem to care too much about the community
Why is this even a video? lol it’s not a big deal
Talk about the sandhawk
I like seeing old guns come back, just 'cause it's silly, and I like silly in my games.
TPS changed the Harold first I think
i feel it should mimic the item, which in this cause the item was majorly OP, so yeah its in a good state, be funny if they added the gub though
Ah, the Harold. Let me fill in the gaps with this weapon. Harold bang dead x7, repeat. Thanks for coming to my Ted comment
Im not sure man...part of me wants to keep the original intention of the gun and buff/nerf it so it fits in the meta, another part of me wants to see how they can expand on it. I really think its a case by case basis but i dont know how to define that line other than, "idk man. Its the Herald." The Herald just *feels* good.
you should take the pre sequel route and change it into the 88 fragnum to nerf it
I'm very conflicted about gearbox bringing back items in borderlands titles. On one hand when a series staple weapon doesn't return I feel sad that it was forgotten, but on the other hand I feel like bringing back weapons for the sake of nostalgia can feel very cheap, I guess it boils down to how the new version of the weapon is treated. The more simple weapons like the bone shredder, maggie, and shredifier are easy to tweak to fit the newer game but the more complicated weapons need to be handled carefully. Take the unkempt harold for example, if they wanted to make a new weapon that functions similarly to the harold they should've made it a new weapon that calls back to it like the fragnum from pre-sequel. If they wanted the harold back in all its glory it should've been locked behind a raid boss or at least something challenging as a way to make the power feel earned rather than just an outlier in terms balance. I don't like these complicated weapons being stuck in limbo between needing to feel like something from the previous games but being forced to change to fit the new gameplay. Most of my issues with these modified items returning could be fixed by giving the new ones different names to distinguish them better, even something as simple as unkempt harold 2.0 would've worked. I mean they did that with bonehead in bl2 and I thought it was a nice reference rather than bringing back a enemy for the sake of nostalgia. I know they can handle these weapons returning seeing as the bekah, sand hawk, and storm all felt nice to use.
Bring back the Fibber 😊
I mean pearls were just rarity tickles. Only 2 were good
Why are u comparing about the Unkempt Harold its a beast of a pistol
Obviously you haven't played the second game. It was THE pistol everyone used
in regards to balance. in Single Player and COOP games like Borderlands, Balance can be more focused on a FUN experience. Now to be clear, I am not asking to make EVERYTHING overpowerered to make them good for endgame, but at least give me 10% of the total arsenal endgame viable instead of the 0,00000001% of the arsenal.
So bl2?
@@donovan_salgado There are a lot of viable weapons in BL2 endgame. Even purple gear can destroy OP10.
@@theobell2002 mobs maybe but ladyfist fiber sandhawk pimpenail dpuh bee rule the end game st op 10 that's there really no reason to use anything else
from what I hear, Borderlands 2's UVHM is a slog to go through, but that means improving the game mode to be less of a hassle, as well as making good weapons and gear for it.
makes me want to get a hellfire but i know its kinda doo doo :(
I think bringing back older game weapons is fine. However should not bring back the game defining weapons such as the Harold or Lyuda. They could expand on guns that didn’t work in design or were bad and give them a new look in new games.
i love you and your content epic, and i apricate your views as well as everything you've done in redux for ttwl and bl3 but genuinely i don't want to see pearls or any other rarity in bl4 cause it'll ruin farming for me personally
That’s a totally fair thing to feel
Just keep stuff the same. They destroyed the Hellfire because of changes
I hate the sandhawk - not because it's not effective - it is. It's just not a sniper rifle even though it says it is and uses sniper ammo. I've a problem with any weapon that so completely violates the very category/type in which it sits.
Nostalgia should be viable. Nerf it but leave it usable. Contextual power is key to balance imo
Can you buff the Conference call in your mod pleaseeeee
I'll have to look into it :)
I find the issue is the tighter projectile spread. If there was a compromise with the damage that it was difficult to have all projectiles hit a target then that’s fine. Just the BL3 Harold hits with them all. There is no skill requirement to use it, or an element of risk/reward that you need to be close up like a shotgun.
Bl2 Harold? Risk/Reward? Skill Requirement? The gun that makes like a literal wall of bullets? The point is that you don't need to hit all the pellets to kill everything that's why it's the best gun in the game, lol.
You’re talking about this gun as if someone forces you to use it. If you don’t like it don’t use it, ignore its existence. I personally love this gun and I use it quite a lot. Is it the only gun I use? Not even close, there are plenty of other fun weapons to use, and I do use them. This just one gun out of SO many.
The double penetrating unkempt harold was OP in BL2
Only on Sal, Axton and Krieg. Maya and Zer0 were better off using Intense or Hard pre-fix because they lack the fire rate and recoil reduction to make the DPUH worth using for the amount of ammo consumption.
Lmao. The Bl3 Harold was literally stronger than the Bl2 Harold even before the buff. The projectile pattern and the skin aren't that different too.
This is not true.
@@EpicNNG It is.
And it has elements
The BL3 version is definitively more fun to use, that's for sure!
Buffing it because players cried that it wasn't as strong as before, to become even stronger than the Double Penetrating version in BL2 WAS the mistake. BL3 Harold pre-nerf did well enough the job.
Ok then i get the point it should have stayed in bl2 and i agree same with the sand hawk and the Norfleet and others that were added to mods or are base game they should stay in there respective games and they should make new weapons like they did with the hellwalker or soul render and plague bearer to name a few thats my take if you want to bash me about it and tell me im wrong go for it
when is it acceptable? well thats kinda hard to say because look at borderalnds 1 the butcher and the unforgiven where legendaries back then then when they came to bl2 the were turned into pearls with only one of them being useful on certain characters. the way they disrespected the conference call was unbelievable. In my honest opinion they should not bring back weapons unless its a rarity that classifies them as a pearl but retain some kinda damage or power they had back then, but yea i honestly think we shouldn't get old weapons back and have new ones take their place and be predecessors to older weapons so what way people have a much better feeling when playing borderlands but we know damn well that will never happen!
I don't know what's happening. but I believe in you :) Update: I now know what is happening. and still believe in you :) but fr though, they should have brought it back with arms race. Genuinely. Gun power and ballence is and was a big issue. Especially at launch, with no dedicated farming. But even when we got dedicated drops, powerful items didn't come from high tier content. Thank you epic for the redux mod. It may have its flaws but i dont care. If you are looking for feedback, i thought the legacy hunts felt too out of place, just in the place of regular hunts. I see them as raid bosses. it would be cool of they had there own fast travel zone, or were selectable in venomorphuses layer. Ug-thak felt especially underwhelming. Only a medium sized skag with a lot of helth. Why not a Godzilla sized skag. What if you make the current version a desiple of ug-thak, and when you kill it, actual ug-thak spawns. Also the physics of ug-thak is kinda bad.
Well that is just boring....I will continue to rock my Harold on my Commie Moze. :)
For me, BL3 absolutely butchered the Sawbar. If there was ANY gun to change into a DAHL (see, the Hellfire becoming a DAHL instead of being a Maliwan) was the SAWBAR. The colors on BL3 Sawbar suck, the model sucks, and I hate CoV guns overall. Also not too much of a fan of the "fully kitted out" Hornet look of the Hornet in BL3.
Gearbox having to double the damage of any weapon demonstrates how non-existent QA is in the gaming industry nowadays.
It literally was one of the strongest Torgue pistols in the game before they doubled the damage. Then they buffed it to please Bl2 players that complain about everything Bl3.
@@tf3israel584 You're saying there wasn't constant and aggressive turbulence in BL3 balancing? You're missing the forest for the trees.
@@roebucksruin I literally didn't say any of that. And what you're saying is besides the point. It was one of the strongest Torgue pistols at all times. Including at the time it released. That is a fact. But after the unnecessary buff it was the strongest Torgue pistol by far. People complained that the Bl3 Harold was too weak. That's why they buffed it. They listened to the loud, insufferable babies that never even touched the gun in Bl3.
@@tf3israel584 I think you need to calm down, take a breath, and read my first comment. It was about lack of QA in gaming, and your fan raging over a gun in BL3... I hope calm and literacy find you before it's too late...
I'd rather have what they did to the Harold than what they did to the Hellfire 😮
Why are you whispering?
You do have a point there, it shouldn't have been in the dlc, at least on Pandora, it should have been some version of Savage Lee that drops it, the bullets should have been a bit slower and more spread out, and on top of all that, the return didn't hit as hard because of the other 100 weapons they brought back, seems like all their thought for this reference went into the design. And bl3 is still my favorite game xD
I now feel validated when I first found out this gun was coming back to the game, I replied to a K6 tweet saying that I did not think it should have been returning because I figured it was going to be a repeat of "this is the most popular gun in the game that is very good and everyone thinks it's also the best gun" I remember a couple people just kinda shitting on me for thinking that. I'm glad I'm not alone. nostalgia is fine, but when the nostalgia is something from a game series where the players were doing playthroughs and using this same gun all the time because it's so easy to get and so good to use sometimes the nostalgia can just stay back at the source :)
Your reasoning is not nostalgia lmao. You just said it shouldn't come back because it will be too good. And people in the bl community get mad whenever you say anything is too good. They hate nerfs
@@ghostridernz17 that is definitely not my entire point, you're not great at reading
I personally cant stand the sand hawk. I don't like it as a sniper. Keep it as a smg. Also I think like an 80% damage increase for the harold would have been better as far as balance. it was trash at launch.
Idk, my biggest issue with Borderlands, was that you get to a point where bosses just melt and it basically removes 99% of the difficulty. I enjoy bosses that, even with an ideal build, take a bit to put down. I've always felt that balancing was the bane of Gearbox's devs. I understand in a RPG balancing is very tough with having a bunch of classes with a bunch of abilities, but a lot of time needs to be taken so one build isn't the meta for each class, or worse, one gun is OP for all classes.
Is complaining the only thing left to make content about in BL3? It’s been 5 years and im still playing this game. Thousands of hours. Is there some contractual obligation that the content creators have in this space to bitch and complain and stoke criticisms?!
Eh, bl3 Harold feels too fast and unfamiliar