Never seen before crank no start!

2024 ж. 5 Мам.
248 430 Рет қаралды

In this video we diagnose a Mercedes CLK with a 271 engine.
It's a crank no start and many parts have already been replaced!
Can we find the cause?
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  • That was so cool, Dan! When you asked us "what's your next step?", my strategy on any engine where a timing issue is suspected is to use an in-cylinder pressure transducer together with an ignition event sync to verify where spark occurs vs TDC. In this case the compression waveform itself would probably show that piston and valve timing was off since 40 degrees is a significant error. But finding that shifted harmonic balancer would still require some deep thought :) Nicely done!!

    @PineHollowAutoDiagnostics@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Жыл бұрын
    • Ivan is here!!!

      @Ilovetittiesandbeer@Ilovetittiesandbeer Жыл бұрын
    • @@Ilovetittiesandbeer I'm surprised he didn't just say "Eurotrash AGAIN"!! :-D

      @rafflesnh@rafflesnh Жыл бұрын
    • Been Your follower for a while Ivan and was going to make the same comment based on what I've seen on your videos , would love to learn in dept about how to use this technique.Any suggestions ?

      @andresmejia7741@andresmejia7741 Жыл бұрын
    • Don't they say you should always change the harmonic balancer with the chain? Did you not have a simular case about a year back where the timing was off because the keyway on the crank or balancer was boogered? I had some kind of subconcious premenition of it being the balancer almost at the start of this video but not enough for my brain to articulate it.

      @rimmersbryggeri@rimmersbryggeri Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks Ivan, that could certainly have been the next step but sometimes a low tech screwdriver does the job🤣🤣

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I think when harmonic balancers are manufactured the TDC mark should be grooved painted and extended down into the inner part of the balancers, so you be able to tell if the outer part has moved over time.

    @1fnjo790@1fnjo790 Жыл бұрын
  • wow, that's impressive. I can't imagine how you even thought about verifying if it's really TDC. That's pure talent right there.

    @4l5m6e1n@4l5m6e1n Жыл бұрын
    • His scope told him the timing was off based on the known good waveforms. He trusted his scope and it told him the timing was off. That's why you have to trust your data, not your gut

      @samg5543@samg5543 Жыл бұрын
    • also the fact it wanted to start probably carried most of the weight in this decision confirming fuel and spark.

      @alltheusernameswastaken8936@alltheusernameswastaken8936 Жыл бұрын
    • It was the Crank/Cam correlation waveforms which told him to physically check the timing again. He was lucky to find a known good one to compare to.

      @blockbertus@blockbertus Жыл бұрын
    • @@samg5543 but what if that data was loaded by someone who just want to mislead others. Remember Dan said he only got one on library to compare. With there was no any other.

      @m.b.smoshitoa8325@m.b.smoshitoa8325 Жыл бұрын
    • @@blockbertus I thought for sure that the crank sensor itself was the issue by sending a delayed pulse to the ECU, which I thought would upset the fuel/air intake timing

      @shekharnandkoemarsing158@shekharnandkoemarsing158 Жыл бұрын
  • Hi Dan, this case highlights the advantage of having started way before today's modern problem solving methods. Not knocking the features and tools mechanics use today but, sometimes back to basics is the shortest rout. Hi to the family Dan

    @patch8462@patch8462 Жыл бұрын
    • You are right 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • That’s the first one for me. Until now I thought that those pulleys will partially and visibly brake apart and vibrate before letting go completely. I’ve changed few and never seen one shifted, yet looking so good from outside. Excellent as always Dan! There wasn’t a video of yours that I haven’t learned something from. Thank you.

    @marekhabel2493@marekhabel2493 Жыл бұрын
    • Awsome Marek!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Seen this a couple of times on the 271 Dan & also on the V6 & V8 112-113 engine the vibration damper wears & you can visibly see it wobbling when running even rubbing up against the timing case. The other things to watch out for is oil leaking out of the camshaft solenoids into the wiring loom & also the wrong oil filter fitted two types supercharged or turbo this can cause oil pressure problems or engine damage. As you said the timing chain is a common failure on poorly maintained engines.

    @madds6678@madds6678 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for the feedback 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • The M113 is almost guaranteed to have crank no start through failed crankshaft position sensor. I've had it on two of my M113 equipped cars. Luckily it's cheap and easy to fix.

      @dingdong2103@dingdong2103 Жыл бұрын
    • Yes the crank sensor of that period on both the 112 113 & even 4 cylinder 111 are known to fail usually when hot if you leave it to cool for 1/2 hour usually starts back up. This a common symptom not uncommon to all car brands.

      @madds6678@madds6678 Жыл бұрын
  • Being an old mechanic I have seen this before, old Holden V8s (1970s) were the first place I came across it. I had a car in for tune. Customer said it had been pretty flat since they had owned it and it had been in to a couple of shops since then. I did the same as any other shop would have, new plugs, points and condenser, set timing etc and they were right, it was pretty flat when timing set to factory spec with the timing light. I went old school and hooked up a vacuum gauge and set the timing as close as I could. Went for a drive and it was like it should be. I rechecked the timing with the light and it looked like it was advanced 25 odd degrees more than it should be. So I did the same check as you just did with the screwdriver and found the culprit. Fitted a new crank pulley, (after talking to the owner) gave it back him and he was super happy. I have always kept my eyes open for this problem since then. It is not a common problem but it sure can eat up some time if you are unaware of it. We tend to forget with modern cars that ignition timing used to be set by rotating the distributor with a timing light hooked up. :-)

    @Stambo59@Stambo59 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for sharing

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • When you asked: what is your next step? I was indeed thinking of a wrong installed crank pulley, however I would never think of the marks being shifted by the pulley itself! Great work Dan, again

    @tommygogh4243@tommygogh4243 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for watching

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • It's really a eye opener!@@Diagnosedan

      @ulf-dieterkoepp7865@ulf-dieterkoepp78658 ай бұрын
  • well that was a different fault and goes to show, double checking the TDC using the old school screwdriver trick in cylinder 1 and not just relying on timeing marks, is a good idea.

    @gutsngorrrr@gutsngorrrr Жыл бұрын
    • But in a diesel engine you'll have to remove the injectors, and God help me diesel injectors usually are so clogged haha.

      @AymenMusnic@AymenMusnic Жыл бұрын
    • There's a neat trick using a whistle in the spark tube 😂 if it blows the valves are closed !

      @beargillium2369@beargillium2369 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Dan isn't just v good at diagnosis but he is also excellent at how he communicates his findings across to us that even a novice like myself can follow him with ease. I've seen a few techs on KZhead and he is definately one of the better ones. Thanks Dan keep up the good work and your excellent videos. Ray H. ......U.K..

    @rayhindle642@rayhindle642 Жыл бұрын
  • Another Diagnose Dan mystery solved with common sense and intuition. Awesome. Thank you for your videos.

    @marcioreis2648@marcioreis2648 Жыл бұрын
    • My pleasure

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Dan is on another level nothing gets past him.Great stuff buddy

    @shady4422@shady4422 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • Brilliant

      @davefinelli6555@davefinelli65556 ай бұрын
  • Surprised that there's no keyway indicator visible on the metal part of the pulley. Nice find Dan! I'll bet this will help so many others with this same issue.

    @CubbyTech@CubbyTech Жыл бұрын
    • actually if you look at 18:20 the one on the right does have an inner mark at tdc and bdc (ot ut) and the bad one on the left is off the 40 degrees

      @richardcranium5839@richardcranium5839 Жыл бұрын
    • Spoiler

      @kiwiwifi@kiwiwifi Жыл бұрын
    • @@richardcranium5839 obviously he was talking about the inner part of the pulley and he is right , they should rely on the metal (fixed) part because the rubber\outer ring will brake down eventually

      @Danidasanic@Danidasanic Жыл бұрын
    • Remove the crank damper bolt and LOOK at the keyway.

      @HouseCallAutoRepair@HouseCallAutoRepair Жыл бұрын
    • @@HouseCallAutoRepair the keyway position doesnt mean that is at tdc , at least on many other vehicles

      @Danidasanic@Danidasanic Жыл бұрын
  • We had a customer complain that his serpentine belt was making a squawking sound. It turned out that the rubber on the harmonic balancer was loose. I used to work on airplanes. To set the timing on the magnetos, we'd attach a protractor on the propeller with a weighted pointer. Then we'd stick a dummy spark plug in #1 and rotate the engine until it hit the dummy. Then rotate it in the opposite direction. Splitting the number of degrees the engine could not rotate would give TDC. Many times, the rough casting mark on the crankcase was off 2-3 degrees. Some engines had the magnetos timed a few degrees from each other, so accuracy was critical.

    @obsoleteprofessor2034@obsoleteprofessor2034 Жыл бұрын
    • Smart Idea! Thanks for sharing 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Dan, it is a really common problem. General rule is to change the pulley if you do timing on the 1998-2009 year range. As a mechanic ( 30 years specialized on EU cars ) I really like your videos. Das Mechanic from USA

    @gaborkovacs7978@gaborkovacs7978 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for the feedback 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • You should be “Der Mechaniker.

      @djmech3871@djmech38719 ай бұрын
  • Dan honestly there’s really few but I mean few people that have the amount of knowledge you have is amazing I always learn something new on your videos good job Dan let us know if you got it started

    @sakuraturbo3364@sakuraturbo3364 Жыл бұрын
    • That's great to hear

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I remember learning about how the crank pulley / vibration damper outer ring can slip from a wise high school auto shop teacher in the mid '70s. In those days the pulley had a single mark and the scale was attached to the timing cover. If it had slipped, we scratched a new line in it to set the timing.

    @knavekid@knavekid Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for sharing!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • It turned out to have a very harmonious outcome because Dan you are a very well Balanced Technician!

    @RSi-tf3jx@RSi-tf3jx Жыл бұрын
    • 🤣🤣👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Hey, Dan, you are such a good engine doctor, my friend. first. I thought it was the fuel system. Who could have thought that it was the harmonic balancer? Thanks for sharing this with the viewers.

    @robertroldan4736@robertroldan473611 ай бұрын
  • Well all I can say is, that was pure genius! I remember a awhile back I had a Toyota Camry that was giving me misfire issues after a few minutes of starting it and eventually I found out that the crankshaft pulley was the issue , the difference was that the key way had made the whole bigger and as you revup the engine the pulley would move causing it to be out of time . Great job man !

    @MiguelMartinez-np8uo@MiguelMartinez-np8uo Жыл бұрын
    • Great you found the problem Miguel

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • Fiat 1.9 Diesels are a classic for doing this too.

      @NZdiagnostics@NZdiagnostics Жыл бұрын
  • Love your Videos Dan! Hope you can show us many more new stuff. I'm always happy learning more and more from you. Wish you the best and stay healthy 👍👍

    @punny26@punny26 Жыл бұрын
    • Great to hear thanks

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • This malfunction is one of the most difficult malfunctions, and no one can fix it. Greetings to you, Professor Dan.. I have a car workshop in Egypt for these problems... You are a legend in car repair

    @tareka.d1345@tareka.d1345 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • WOW Dan, honestly I was lost when you asked "what is your next step". You are a remarkable diagnostician, I learn so much from you. Thank you, Axel Perez Hoboken New Jersey USA.

    @danthemann6565@danthemann6565 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks Axel that's great to hear

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Everytime I watch you do this it blows my mind. I need you in Scotland!

    @wellybobs4403@wellybobs4403 Жыл бұрын
  • I always look forward to your videos. You are a fountain of knowledge, even though I work only on my own project cars I am no longer afraid to tackle these types of problems. Also love the bloopers at the end.

    @someone28@someone28 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I love watching your videos Dan. You are a great diagnostician and I'm sure all of us viewers learn from you. Thanks all the way from Phoenix Arizona.

    @davidmcclain5180@davidmcclain5180 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you David

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • The best diagnose channel on youtube. Hands down. 🎉🎉

    @aaronwon6056@aaronwon60568 ай бұрын
  • I like you videos because the content, screen close ups, attention to details and your cutting out the work time so we get the facts. Totally 👍 awesome. Great camera angles too.

    @mike-yp1uk@mike-yp1uk Жыл бұрын
  • On older cars, pre 1980, a screwdriver in no. 1 was often used to check for TDC. Nice one!

    @daveturner5305@daveturner5305 Жыл бұрын
    • Yes but not all engines are timed in TDC these days.

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • @DiagnoseDan That's why you're the man. Life and engineering changes. I've no doubt that you would have diagnosed the fault in another way if that were the case. In my day I always carried a toolkit, oil, grease, brake fluid, water & corn flakes packets. That was enough to get me home unless there was a catastrophic failure!

      @daveturner5305@daveturner5305 Жыл бұрын
  • Dan does it again! This would be my point exactly, never trust the marks, always physically check the timing as you done by removing the plugs and viewing the motion of the screwdriver for TDC and viewing the camshaft positions. Sometimes good mechanical knowledge is best. Great video Dan, I’m sure the workshop who gave you the job will be kicking themselves for not doing as you did. Your knowledge and approach to these things always makes great viewing and great instruction on how to approach this type of job.

    @frankoattes@frankoattes Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Fantastic! I've seen that before on a Honda V6 and just like you, confirmed the TDC with a long screwdriver. A previous shop had done a front oil seal and they lost the woodruff key on reassembly. It lasted quite a while because the bottom crank pulley was torqued up while the timing was correct. However after 18 months or so the cambelt drive behind the front pulley had slipped by a couple of teeth.

    @spectre750@spectre7505 ай бұрын
  • Thanks Dan,wonderful job as always,appreciate you.

    @mk-jl3zd@mk-jl3zd Жыл бұрын
  • Hah, the minute you disclosed the issue and told it was an M271, I knew that it had to be the crank pulley. Just a few weeks ago I happened to read a forum post about a M271 timing chain replacement that had this exact issue, and it made the original poster of that topic almost crazy. Very nice diagnosis never the less, like always. Not an easy one to figure out.

    @patokaa93@patokaa93 Жыл бұрын
    • I realised this must happen to others that's why we'll create a bulletin on this issue👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • When I saw the timing marks on the sheave I had a flashback to setting ignition timing on old American cars. You could never trust the damper pulley. They could have put an other TDC mark on the hub. An in cylinder pressure test would have saved you time, given that you're not doing the repair.

    @fascistpedant758@fascistpedant758 Жыл бұрын
    • Or even trust the pulley on any car for that matter. You never know if the pulley got the markings right from the beginning even on those old sheet metal pulleys.

      @ehsnils@ehsnils Жыл бұрын
    • In cylinder could have been the next step👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Wow, I would have thought that this guy would have known about the extra service position for the hood/bonnet. Just push the red button in on the drivers side gas strut. The hood/bonnet will go up to a almost vertical position. Much easier to work on the engine. 😊

    @paul5683@paul568310 ай бұрын
  • Right back to the basics 🫵🏻👍🏻 well played my friend 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

    @S2NAZ@S2NAZ9 ай бұрын
  • I am amazed by: 1- the pulley re-vulcanizing itselft 2- that engine being so out of time that it was not destroyed by the tentatives of making it start 3- Dan's troubleshooting capacity. Never ceases to amuse

    @tm199100@tm199100 Жыл бұрын
    • I don't know if the pulley would slip if we tried to turn it with more force or warmed up. Fortunately no valves damaged

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Had this myself 20 years ago. Mk2 Golf GTi has a similar resonance damper. Drove me crazy for a while. Eventually painted the pulley, drove it, and saw the pen marks moving against each other.

    @jonathanfenne4948@jonathanfenne4948 Жыл бұрын
    • Yes that's a smart Idea!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Wow That is crazy!!! Really cool it came down to a shade tree style repair

    @c.h.r.i.s2253@c.h.r.i.s22538 ай бұрын
  • Great call Dan. Updating TSB's aswell, saving lots of future head scratching.

    @trojanorse@trojanorse8 ай бұрын
  • Nice diagnosis Dan. You would think that MB would put marks on the pully and the hub so that it would be easy to see if the rubber is slipping between them. Most folks wouldn't dream of this part being at fault...as you found out. Wow, that slipped a whole bunch and the problem came from the used engine. The original shop that found timing chains needed to be replaced should have kept the original engine and put on the new chain assembly because there is no guarantee a used engine is going to be OEM correct plus the computer needs programmed I believe. What a ton of added labor the customer is being subjected to not to mention the loss of use of the vehicle for a month plus. Maybe its a good idea for shops to take a marker and scribe a line across the hub and outer pully on a known good crank pully assy when they are dealing with vehicles that have them just to have a reference for the next time they work on that customers car. So, who is going to absorb all of the added labor up to the crank pully?

    @Garth2011@Garth2011 Жыл бұрын
    • I guess the didn't expect the pully to slip when they designed it🤣

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • that's not the first engine damper designed that way and sure wont be the last! even if it's mounted on the solid portion, NEVER trust it's accuracy, nor the dot/indicator on a timing cover, always physically confirm it's right. A dial indicator setup is the best way, but you can get very close with screwdriver/rod/whatever. I have seen partially sheered keys and other issues throwing the marks way off.

      @throttlebottle5906@throttlebottle5906 Жыл бұрын
  • Absolutely brilliant Dan!! Fantastic imagination to have sorted that!! Thanks for the great video, can’t wait for the next. Mike

    @michaelchristou5127@michaelchristou5127 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you very much Mike👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • What I discovered with the m271 engines when it comes to valve timing is that you don't rely on the OT mark on the crankshaft pulley in relationship with the camshaft marks,the mark on the crankshaft seems to shift after sometime in it's lifetime. I have always successfully timed this engine by making sure the Number 1 piston is on Top Dead Center.You are a genius Dan

    @tendaidavidchingawo9849@tendaidavidchingawo98494 ай бұрын
  • You are the best Dan! Impressed what faults and errors you are finding. Looking forward to see your next video!

    @stein-arnefalchpedersen2222@stein-arnefalchpedersen2222 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I remember seeing this on a Passat ages ago. Car drove in for a timing belt replacement. Couldn't get the timing marks to line up. Never had any issues starting the car, but it was a real headscratcher!

    @panzerveps@panzerveps Жыл бұрын
    • I can imagine

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • You can check it with in cylinder pressure transducer and a ignition timing control signal accurately. Great stuff Dan. 👍

    @vickenkaragozian2041@vickenkaragozian2041 Жыл бұрын
    • Was thinking the same thing too, I guess you can't always think right while you're in the storm.

      @theredbomb@theredbomb Жыл бұрын
    • Or use a screwdriver :)

      @hoedenbesteller@hoedenbesteller Жыл бұрын
    • @@hoedenbesteller Indeed it's another way to achieve the same result but you didn't need to spend a lot of money on tools, it's a matter of wanting to save money or time.

      @theredbomb@theredbomb Жыл бұрын
    • Yes you are right, maybe next time 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Very good on you All the hard work comes with a smart thinking Thank you for the channel

    @SuperArchi2010@SuperArchi2010 Жыл бұрын
  • Real genius I love listening to your logic and ending up, correct

    @cherylfarrell1638@cherylfarrell163811 ай бұрын
  • Great stuff! I suspected a timing issue by the way it was sounding during cranking…

    @nicknicu1787@nicknicu1787 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for watching

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • exactly

      @W.Khairi@W.Khairi Жыл бұрын
  • That was an awesome find and informative as always! Well done Dan!

    @blueskiesmobileauto4253@blueskiesmobileauto4253 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I was thinking about shifted ring for crankshaft sensor, but WOOOOOW , this is unbilievable ! Well DONE DAN !

    @matusekpetr7806@matusekpetr7806 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Dan, this is a very great catch. Awesome technique.

    @albertantwi702@albertantwi702 Жыл бұрын
  • Certainly a weird issue. I'd heard of that happening before , but the pulley looked so good, and the markings so precise. Great troubleshooting!

    @dustcommander100@dustcommander100 Жыл бұрын
    • You couldn't tell there was something wrong with the pulley

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Your the man Dan, well done mate,another under your belt,a true master..Love your videos Dan.

    @davyboy380@davyboy380 Жыл бұрын
    • That's great David 👍 Thanks

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Hey man great work as usual

    @haydenbenjamin8079@haydenbenjamin80798 ай бұрын
  • You are euphoric in your video 😂 it’s good for my moral 😅 and you still always excellent in your diagnosis approach. Thanks Dan, you did it again 🎉

    @gofastergofaster3392@gofastergofaster3392 Жыл бұрын
  • I was taught in my early teens to never rely on the crank pulley marks to time an engine - they are not always accurate. My 1st 4 cars were Alfas which had a vernier adjustment for cam timing, so you could set cam timing very accurately. Modern cars don't have that ability (too expensive) , but I have continued to use a dial gauge all my adult life.

    @gregculverwell@gregculverwell Жыл бұрын
    • Smart❗💪

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Something very similar to this happened to my Volvo 2.4 engine as well. The timing belt pulley on the crankshaft wore the splines on the crank itself, causing the timing to be off just slightly. Luckily it didn't bend the valves. This was caused by me not torquing the harmonic balancer nut properly.

    @jongankul@jongankul Жыл бұрын
    • You were lucky!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Top end content Sir, too much information- this is what I subscribed to. Thank you

    @sicelolongo2388@sicelolongo23889 ай бұрын
  • I am suffering from the same eyesight aging. All my safety glasses have readers in them now. God bless you!

    @jamesu@jamesu Жыл бұрын
    • 🤣🤣Why do they use such small numbers🤣🤣👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • @@DiagnosedanSo we have to buy their reading glasses.

      @jamesu@jamesu Жыл бұрын
  • First time you showed the pulley, I was like "he is going to have the problem ivan had where that pulley slipped somehow". Hopefully there was no touchy-touchy with the valves and pistons. I also think that the engine ended at the junkyard exactly because of that issue. They changed the chain (maybe due to timing error codes) and also timed it with the marks on the pulley. Couldnt figure it out and junked it. Poor customer who owned THAT engine before. Let's hope they still have the original ECM...

    @blockbertus@blockbertus Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for watching

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • Turn the engine first by hand.. i always do when unsure.. also.. when its 40 degrees off like that, sometimes by ear you hear there,s something wrong..

      @nickvanderstroom6884@nickvanderstroom6884 Жыл бұрын
  • Hi. Be aware that almost all OM271 engines like the one in the movie have the same problem regardless of the Mercedes model. I think the problem is due to the climate associated with the aging of the rubber between the outside of the pulley and its hub. I mention that I work with this type of car and I ran into this problem a few years ago when I had to replace the timing of this engine, of course I suffered as colleagues from the other service and it took me two days to to find the mistake. Luckily the difference wasn't big and they didn't hit the piston valves. Respectfully.

    @tudormununar4451@tudormununar4451 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for the feedback, i guess Mercedes specialists know about this problem

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • This is exactly the kind of videos that are needed! The Obscure and odd stuff. Most of us home mechanics, however talented or experienced some of us might be, don't turn to KZhead videos until we've been scratching our heads for quite a while. We tend to trust Factory markings Etc. This is a real Lifesaver for somebody out there! Thank you

    @levikasberg4539@levikasberg45393 ай бұрын
  • These videos are addictive!

    @darrenquirk2269@darrenquirk22697 ай бұрын
  • Hi Dan, Again thank you for sharing your experience via your website. I know that you thought it was a timing issue however, what gave you the indication to check cylinder 1 to ensure TDC? As always, looking forward to your next video and glad to see you are feeling better after covid. 👍👍👍

    @markt5426@markt5426 Жыл бұрын
    • Hi Mark a long time ago i used to work at a company that made race engines. We never worked with timing marks but always timed the engines by measuring the position of the pistons/crank Shaft and the camshafts. Somehow that's still in my system.

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
    • Only you piston knows for sure - where TDC is! Simple yet reliable -ye olde long shafted screwdriver.

      @uploadJ@uploadJ9 ай бұрын
  • Dan is the man, as usual!! I thought it was going to be the wrong timing cover on the engine since it was an engine of unknown origin. I was wrong. I believe the Fire Explorers had a similar issue to this.

    @Ilovetittiesandbeer@Ilovetittiesandbeer Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks Scott!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Wow. Way to go Dan. I can’t imagine how many people this will help. You’re an artist.

    @htownblue11@htownblue11 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks 😁😁

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Absolutely awesome video. Brilliant technics. Thank you so much.

    @asliasif1@asliasif19 ай бұрын
  • I think those engines have a special pin to lock the crank so you can torque that front pulley bolt- if the other shop didn't have the pin, they might have tried to hold the pulley with a strap wrench and it spun the outer damper when they torqued it. Not a great design, as that outer damper could get moved if the water pump or alternator or power steering pulley seized suddenly and the belt stopped while the motor was spinning. My guess is the junkyard engine probably got jammed in a wreck and the damper spun a bit- you remember the other shop said they checked the timing and it was off- actually it was probably correct, but they were reading TDC off that spun damper, so when they adjusted it, they actually put it out of time.

    @oldschool1993@oldschool1993 Жыл бұрын
    • It did not spin on the crankshaft. The outer ring with the marks on it is connected to the inner part with a rubber ring in between for dampening. That rubber ring wore over time and allowed the outer ring to slip. That is not a problem as long as the chain is not changed because the belt driven by that does not have timing what so ever. It became a problem once the shop who junked that engine in the first place did a timing job on it. They didnt realize that their marks on the crankshaft pulley where off by around 40° (which is A LOT!). If MB would have placed timing marks on the inner part somehow, that would never have been a problem in the first place. Or if they didnt use a rubber ring between the inner and outer part of it.

      @blockbertus@blockbertus Жыл бұрын
    • @@blockbertus I did not say it spun on the crank, but the outer ring was probably stopped suddenly in an accident and the crank kept moving before the engine died. But yes, a poor design with the mark not directly connected to the steel part of the pulley.

      @oldschool1993@oldschool1993 Жыл бұрын
    • @@oldschool1993 oh yeah. That could also quite possibly be. But very unlikely i suppose. Such an accident would leave damage on the engine too i suppose. The belt would slip before it would drag the outer ring around. Plus, it then must have spun it over/more than 360° (400° minimum to be exact).

      @blockbertus@blockbertus Жыл бұрын
    • @@blockbertus No- the inner pulley only moved 40 degrees- look at the comparison you can see the keyway for the crank is almost exactly 40 degrees clockwise of where it should be, indicating that the outer ring stopped and the crank kept moving. This could happen 2 ways- 1. The outer ring was suddenly stopped while the engine was running 2. The outer ring was held in place by some method while the crank bolt was torqued and the force of the torque moved the inner pulley inside the outer ring. It's a good detective story, because Dan says the junkyard engine had a new timing chain. That means at some point before the engine ended up in the junkyard, someone had installed a new timing chain and it was a running motor. ( you can't get into a wreck if the car doesn't run). So what happened was A: The original mechanic set and checked his cam timing before fully torqueing the pulley, and then during the torque procedure he managed to move the outer ring out of place, but the timing was correct and the motor ran fine. OR 2: The pulley was somehow jammed during the wreck and the crank moved inside it before the inertia of the motor stopped. Here is where the story is hard to follow. Even though the timing mark was wrong, the cam timing should have still been correct and the motor would have run. So now they are searching for the reason and begin looking for a problem in the electronics- remember someone had cut and repaired wires on one cam sensor- then they buy a used ECU with no success. Somewhere in this process before they get the used ECU cloned, the mechanic decides to check the cam timing and he thinks it is wrong because of the spun timing mark, so he re-adjusts the cam timing and they continue with the cloning of the ECU which is now OK, but still no start because the mechanic has now got the timing wrong, so they throw their tools across the shop, call a tow truck and send it to Dan.

      @oldschool1993@oldschool1993 Жыл бұрын
    • @@oldschool1993 a crap. I had in mind that the keyway was on the other side of the OT mark for some reason. i checked it again and sorta agree with you on that now. however, i feel it would be more likely that it was held in place manually while reassembly or rotated slowly over time.

      @blockbertus@blockbertus Жыл бұрын
  • Great fix Dan. At the end my guess was the crank pully. But, did the engine run on this new crank pully? Dutch regards, Nico.

    @Nico_335i_DCT@Nico_335i_DCT Жыл бұрын
    • Hi Nico, helaas mocht ik alleen diagnose stellen. De auto is opgehaald en ik zal een update geven zodra ik meer weet👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Just found your channel . Great video. I lost a few of those going down the highway back in the day. Late 70's 350 I believe. As soon as I saw Ivan on here I knew it was going to be a great video.

    @johnmeyer6537@johnmeyer6537 Жыл бұрын
  • That diagnosis was brilliant. Well done Dan.

    @OilBaron100@OilBaron100 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks!😁👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • When you first moved the engine so the top dead centre marker on the pulley would line up, I thought confirming that mark would have been a logical move, considering removing a spark plug to check isn't that difficult. I've seen those outer rings move before, as I used to do a lot of engine work, mainly performance types. After confirming the pulley was correct during assembly, I'd mark across from the inner to outer so any change could be easily seen, as performance engines take a beating and their owners often aren't engine savvy.

    @deaddoll1361@deaddoll1361 Жыл бұрын
    • Smart thinking 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Great video Dan, very interesting. Does the shop manual mention replacing the pulley when doing the timing belt?

    @MattyEngland@MattyEngland Жыл бұрын
    • This isn't normally a requirement.

      @christophermarshall5765@christophermarshall5765 Жыл бұрын
    • No it doesn’t & it’s chain driven not a belt

      @madds6678@madds6678 Жыл бұрын
    • No it doesn't

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I wish Dan worked near me... No one else would touch my car....thanks for the video

    @stitchergary@stitchergary Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you 😁👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • absolutly amazing,,,the scope doesnt lie and you proved it ,,,,,fantastic your a true professional sir

    @darrenflounders2803@darrenflounders2803 Жыл бұрын
  • Just plain nasty that fault, lol. Just shows, assume nothing and double check everything! 😳. Well done Dan. Shame they wouldn't let you finish it.

    @paulhutchins6019@paulhutchins6019 Жыл бұрын
    • Yes i would have loved to hear it run

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Very well done Dan, excellent investigating skills. This video shows how important is not to overthinking. It also shows how important is to double checking our work a specially something as crucial as replacing timing components. Thinking outside the square is a must for a diagnostic tech. Thanks Dan, I believe this was a very good lesson for many.

    @zbynekm2918@zbynekm2918 Жыл бұрын
    • This was a great case indeed! Thanks for watching

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Thats really interresting case Dan...thanks for sharing

    @grkoica@grkoica Жыл бұрын
  • I really enjoy watching you in telling me a lot of things to look for I have a 2008 Chevy Impala crank won't start I have changed sensors and just about everything you can imagine fuel pump is turning on but it could be clogged that is my next check

    @chopperchuck6661@chopperchuck666111 ай бұрын
  • What a champ Dan!!! I would have never got it right😮

    @JGV_IX@JGV_IX8 ай бұрын
  • Great diagnosis Dan! The first thing that came to mind was that the timing wasn't on compression stroke, and I was right. But I couldn't figure out why the marks didn't line up after you got the compression stroke up, on top dead center! But you learn something new every day! That defective timing mark pulley is a real tricky thing to look out for. Good observation Dan! Thanks! For the great tip!

    @eldredhamilton5606@eldredhamilton56062 ай бұрын
  • Great diagnosis again, Dan. Always enjoy, and learn something, your videos.

    @frankmuschetto3385@frankmuschetto3385 Жыл бұрын
    • That's great to hear Frank!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Thanks for putting your knowledge out there for us to learn from Dan! God bless

    @MrLumagone@MrLumagone Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • wow another mystery solved by the great Dan.

    @mohamedzouhair6859@mohamedzouhair6859 Жыл бұрын
    • 😁👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • As always, amazing diagnosis Dan! I'm learning so much from you. Keep up the good work.

    @SivaFolsom@SivaFolsom Жыл бұрын
    • That's great!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Hi Dan that is very clear and well explained symptoms, diagnose and most of all the FIXED!!!! Job well done Sir!!!!

    @marcelodelcarmen8848@marcelodelcarmen8848 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you very much 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Well done Dan, in Australia 1970's GM Holdens were notorious for slipping balancer rings.

    @aussiefirestorm@aussiefirestorm Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for the feedback Jeremy👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • great job dan

    @elviscarey5270@elviscarey52708 ай бұрын
  • What a great mystery and find.

    @paarker@paarker9 ай бұрын
  • Yikes! That was a bizarre problem, but it does home in on "what is known good" and I needed the reminder that it applies to mechanical parts too, not just wave forms. So glad to see you looking and sounding healthy. All the best from Canada!

    @BWGPEI@BWGPEI Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you very much 👍

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Good fix! really enjoyable to watch. this sort of reminds me of an old story of a BOB Cosworth V6 engine from a Ford scorpio. it started but was running rough.. everything was check and double checked visually and on a scope. turns out when the timing chain was replaced they accidentally used BOA cam sprockets which had very slightly different timing marks - it was only realised when they went old skool and back to basics and checked everything/didnt assume anything.

    @ianjeffery3762@ianjeffery3762 Жыл бұрын
    • I also thought for a minute this wasn't the right pulley,😉

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Seen this on a GM truck with a 350 40years ago The truck had no power, it had been losing power gradually over time which I was not aware of. It came to the dealership for a tune up, plugs wires etc, etc carb was also cleaned. Took it for a drive still no power. Another tecnician buddy with much more GM experience that I had at the time drove it with me, stopped and power timed it at the side of the road. I told him I had checked the timing that's when. he told me about how the crank harmonic balancers shift in the same manner as yours. Never seen that problem again in the rest of the time I worked on cars but I never forgot that experience. I suspected the woodruff key was damaged or even missing, not being aware that Mercedes have the same crank pulley design. I had a similar experience with low power hard starting on a Pontiac Le Mans with a 305 engine, once again Chess came to the rescue when he told me the were prone to camshaft wear on particular lobes. I came to find out years later it was a design flaw where the lobe offset was not sufficient to rotate the cam follower so constant contact between the parts cause excessive wear. As opposed to the generally held belief that it was poor material as the root cause.

    @alanmcclelland5245@alanmcclelland5245 Жыл бұрын
  • Been bit by that a long time ago. I'm glad you stated the screwdriver trick gets it close, but it's not exact. Thoroughly enjoyed this one

    @brucelott3583@brucelott3583 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for watching, glad you liked the video 😁

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Dan excellent informative video. Definitely something to look for. Thanks for sharing hope all is well

    @arthurfricchione8119@arthurfricchione8119 Жыл бұрын
    • All is well, great to see you here again it's appriciated

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • Hey Dan! Great work on it! You can believe that i landed here having a similar problem. I have a e220 w211 2.2cdi motor and can't figure out the problem. Next step is to try out what you've done in last step. Congrats!

    @danieldartelsoft@danieldartelsoftКүн бұрын
  • Excellent video as always. I have only worked on cars with a solid crankshaft pully, so this was a new one for me.

    @johnbreech6280@johnbreech6280 Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks for watching

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • simply amazing work Dan

    @Kieran46100@Kieran46100 Жыл бұрын
    • Thank you!!!!

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
  • I love this video 3rd time I watch it,teach me the importance of fundamentals..blessings

    @agoodneighborautorepair2176@agoodneighborautorepair2176 Жыл бұрын
  • Awesome catch! Thanks Dan!

    @josephlanguemi@josephlanguemi Жыл бұрын
    • Thanks Joseph

      @Diagnosedan@Diagnosedan Жыл бұрын
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