If you've ever tried playing LEGO Island on a new computer, you'll be intimately familiar with the frustration involved as the overenthusiastic turn speed makes the controls far less accurate and very prone to oversteer. Join Discount Markiplier as he explores the causes behind this bug as well as all the different ways that this issue can be solved.
▶Download LEGO Island Rebuilder: www.legoisland.org/rebuilder
▶Interview with Wes Jenkins (Creative Director): le717.github.io/LEGO-Island-V...
▶Interview with Dennis Goodrow (Lead Programmer): www.rockraidersunited.com/top...
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▶MUSIC USED
Graff - rain eater
BRD RinjaniSoft Products Universal
DualTrax - Shitune #1
Pink - sonic sucks!
Ghidorah - GhidaPop
falcon/pulse+tdr - spineless
BLiZZARD - Contraduct Design
BRD Keygen #4
4-Mat - eternity
DualTrax - orion crackmusic
bergsm„taren lever
Next video: "How i made LEGO Island run in 4k with Raytracing"
Can't you run it in 4K already? I wasn't aware of any limits to the resolution.
@@Thornskade You can run it, but it looks garbage because the textures/models are in something like 320x280 lol... i mean you can SEE the pixels on the road
"How I made LEGO Island playable in VR"
So Minecraft?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was doable. Ray-tracing can be rather simple to impliment if you have the source code and an intermediate knowledge of graphics rendering.
Soon you'll have this game running in 16:9 widescreen 4k, 240fps, with HDR, and RTX!
Considering they got raytracing working in Doom (the original, not 2016), I'd say that's not too much of a stretch. From a technical standpoint, that is. I doubt anyone with the required knowledge still cares enough about this game.
@@nixel1324 raytracing in original doom? what? its not even 3d
@@Timsturbs i think he meant quake
@@STJrArmonte there's an original quake with raytracing?
@@Timsturbs to be clear, it's very different from what we think of as raytracing for 3D graphics today. In old sprite based shooters they used rays to figure out orientation, scaling and shading of sprites. However it was made possible by locking those rays to the x-z plane. So essentially super simple 2D raytracing in a 3D game. A cool trick, but got superceded by rasterization for rendering more "true" 3D games. Until GPUs got powerful enough for the raytracing revival.
this game was on my schools computers back in the early 2000's it was a sick discovery
Lewis Lancaster practically every computer in my high school had Halo CE on it for years before all the computers got their OS switched to ChromeOS
Afton Enoch who the hell wants chromeOS its garbage Your school made a biiiiig mistake.
Z T it can run on super cheap PCs and students can’t install shit on it. What isn’t there to love for a school admin.
@@aftonstjarna4530 kitty!
ターツ you can get Linux on chrome os
"The most permanent solution is a temporary one." - Valve programmers.
There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
kirby's very design was meant to be temporary
@@OneEyeShadow mostly when the governments involved lol
"Map is smaller than it seemed to be when you were a kid " okay, now we need a mod that increases the size of the map by few % maybe like 10% or 20 % to make if feel bigger without screwing up the entire layout
I dunno, I recently replayed the game and I liked the size as it is. Increasing map size wouldn’t actually increase content, so I feel like it’d just be like adding lengths to roads, while the environment is actually so bare and lacking in things to see/do for it to have much additional value
@@wattenslaafje1825 that was more of a joke that he should try to make the game feal as it did when we were kids rather than an actual useful idea
or just decrease movement speed
@@adrianpolak8725 yeah but without doing some fov magic it would feel like walking slowly on a regular map, not walking regularly on a big map
@@HuxTheSergal Movement Speed & Camera Height reduction?
This man has gotten his priority's straight. Fixing lego island is much more important than curing cancer.
Even more important than coronavirus too...
Initrox you have a pretty decent chance to get rid of the Coronavirus after you get it: you have a slim chance to get Rid of cancer and that’s after years and years of research and new technology. Not to mention there are several different kinds of cancers you can contract unlike COVID 19
@@mcglavin9337 Around 100 million people are projected to die from it.
@@khoado2060 In the next four months.
@@KYBlueJedi Way to be "topical".....
This brought back so many memories. I remember in elementary school when a buddy gave me a copy of "Lego Island". It was a floppy disc. He had copied the launch icon to it. I eventually convinced my parents to get me a real copy.
That is poetic.
Dont copy that floppy?
haha, id always get confused as to why my copy of skyrim was just opening a png of the icon. i was clicking the .icon file. now i see why i have so much difficulty with PCs.
I used to do this a lot when I was a lot longer only copy the .exe file and be co fused why it wasn't working
Ah, I made the hilarious "make a copy of the game by copying the icon to a floppy" mistake when I was very small. As an IT guy now, I'm glad my technical ability has improved slightly since then.
"I can't even really take the credit for it 'cause they already did all the hard parts! All I did was... finish it." What you should have said was, "All I did was... put the blocks together."
put the bricks together not the blocks
@kuningaskosmos ...tock or tick...
@@user-xn3kt6bn5r ...no mater how thin, no matter how thick...
@@Kris451 poo poo dick...
@@robertpaulson4960 shotgun blast
I wish every old game had someone like you to fix stuff like this
Pretty much every remotely popular old PC game I’ve seen does, fortunately.
As long as there are still people playing it, there will be a couple of modders to repair it.
Sonic.
what are you talking about i never have this bug but how u make ur footage so smooth is my gateway windows 98 pc not good?
you guys use windows 98 and win2000? I thought my windows 95 pc was good
@Lambda Core Windows 2000 isn't an upgrade to 98, it's an upgrade to NT... You're supposed to upgrade to Windows Me.
@Lambda Core I use it. Super stable once you install all the updates, practically unusable without them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@TaxiYoshi64 fuck, y'all have computers? I'm on my type writer.
ryanknowstecmobowl what’s that? I’m on an newspaper
Excellent video! I remember playing this game on an XP machine and how awful the controls felt. I never realized this was a bug. Very fascinating to learn all these years later. Great video and explanation, hope to see more videos!
Hey shank!
Shank :D
Hey its that wii guy
@Shank Mods hi
Shank my man!
It's 23 years later and devs are still making games rely on FPS for physics. when will they learn :(
Because they dont touch physics at all in their games.
@@czowieknuz7507 true they just use old physics engines
@Cleroth because its not his job
@@czowieknuz7507 No, physically "convince" the developers to use time instead of framerate.
@@czowieknuz7507 exactly. His jobs to be an asshole to other GTA speedrunners lol
2:51 THIS PART BROKE ME YOU WERE EXPLAINING HOW THEY WERE BASICALLY GOING TO SCAM THEM WHILE PLAYING THE CLIP THAT SAID SCUMBAGS BRUHHHHHH
time machines soon you know what someone will do
2:59 "It was explained to me later when we won best of show at E3 later that year, that 'it wasn't personal - it was just business'" "It's not personal, It's just business. _Lord_ Business" - Lord Business, The LEGO Movie.
One thing to note is that this is how fighting games handle everything as well usually, Intentionally though. They want to make it fair and thus slow down gameplay if the game lags out, always ensuring that one of the players doesn't get a head start on the other one while the game freezes up.
And also feels horrible to play, which is why it's sorta being replaced by rollback. A system, which, instead of freezing one side until they sync back up, let's inputs continue and eventually "pulls back" one of the players to be in sync, which feels far better (though looks worse, due to "teleporting" and the like) but is still vastly preferable due to how much more playable it makes poorer connections
"To solve this problem, I'm going to meet the developers..." Ah shit, wrong channel.
"So I emailed John Romero" ah, wrong channel again (Decino)
I have literally never played this game, but I find videos about it fascinating. I love to see passionate communities of modders who love a certain game.
A bug I never see talked about is one that's exclusive to hardware mode, but doesn't always occur. I don't know why, but very often, when you use hardware rendering, you won't be able to click on things. Sometimes you can't enter the police station; sometimes you can, but you won't be able to build the helicopter, because every time you click on a piece, it knows you're clicking on _something,_ but it doesn't move the piece.
oh my god I think that was the mode my copy of the game was in. we couldn’t build ANYTHING and if I remember right it’s because we couldn’t click on anything. oh my god that’s been haunting me for over TWENTY YEARS omg now if only I still had a copy of the game kdjdkd i could finally play it properly after all these years…….
"this isnt rose tinted nostalgia glasses.....this is just regular glasses.."
Why do I get the feeling that one day he'll post a video showing us that he redid the game in Unreal Engine or something?
Reminds me that there are a few remakes of the game floating around, but they're pretty unfinished.
Unreal Engine is expensive AF.
@@und4287 It doesn't cost money if you don't charge anything for your game.
@@lobsterbark Even if you do charge for the game you don't have to pay anything if you make less than $3,000 per quarter. And it is not a fixed cost, but a 5% cut of your revenue past that $3,000.
@@dragonflyK110 ...which is pretty dang expensive
Fun fact, since the average person walks at 2 mph, if we assume the player character in LI walks that fast, the path Matt took to demonstrate the island's size was 151' 10" long.
(that's 46.28 meters for the rest of the world btw)
@@BetaDude40 that is small
@@BetaDude40 that is WAY to small lmao
Please no alien measurements
3:20 Le-Le-Lego Le-Le-Le-Lego
Sadly the LEGO Island Rebuilder is not working with the german version of the game, it crashes when applying.
Hi, the newest version should support the German release
Thanks for still working on this tool. This is passion. I will test it as soon as I can.
It is simply allergic to german. There, problem solved.
@@cstudios5247 Nein.
bruh this was posted minutes ago and I thought I remembered seeing this video before
he made one to fix the music a while back
He also mentioned that he fixed the camera bug and wanted to make a video about it. Maybe that's where you remember it.
@@Outside998 I thought I had seen the thumbnail before, it's probably just that I saw another KZhead complain about it a few years back
@@s7ormyreal Merging universe theory?
dejavu
I have been a dev for over five years now, and only just at this very moment, with this very video, I understood what delta time actually was.
Every time I watch MattKC, I'm shocked by how low the subscriber count is. Content like this is worth well over 100k subs, not just 32k!
I have good news, pal
I have better news, pal
250k lesgooo
now he has an extra one between the three and two.
@@NitheshVG734 I have even better news, ol pal
Funnily enough, this issue was one of the very first things we got taught in my games dev degree, to make sure that anything involving movement was factored by the frame time
MattKC: *is a talented programmer, a funny person and a good looking man* Me: PROGRAMMING MARKIPLIER
MADNUB I’m laughing. Please put the knife down, don’t off my wife and kids like this. 😦
"Asian Keanu Reeves" Isn't Keanu Reeves already Asian
the more Asian, i guess xd
Keanu Reeves is a Lebanese born Canadian. He is of Chinese, English, Irish, Native Hawaiian, and Portuguese descent. Keanu Reeves is every race and creed incarnate.
well Keanu is middle eastern, this guy is east asian
Yes
Keanu is a white middle eastern not Asian lol
It would be amazing to have a mod that let's you go beyond the invisible walls of the roads
5:04 No one wants to play a game at 15fps... Me: Test Drive Unlimited, Core 2 Duo E7400.
I feel like this is about to blow up...
Yeah, it seems Matt found his niche. Good for him. Check out his channel and look at the view count of his older videos. I am happy to see him finding his thing.
Maybe...
This gonna have a milion views in a week.
100%
I agree
1:50 Lego man go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I love your love for this game! I feel that way about pretty much all the early 3D games. Seal Team, Vette, 4D Driving, Test Drive III, 4D Boxing, Hunter, Midwinter, Spec Ops, Vigilance, Stunt Island, 3D Construction Kit(Still have this in the box :D )
When I saw the turn bug in this video, I already knew that they needed to use DeltaTime
Music at 6:35 is Game 2 from 50 Classical games DS
Nice video, Matt! I played LEGO Island when I was a kid back in 2001, but by that time, our computer, which did run Windows 98, must have been powerful enough to play the game at relatively full speed because I certainly remember the crazy fast turning speed.
Could you please elaborate on modding the executable? I would like to achieve it without a user-friendly tool
From the screenshots in the video it looks like he is using x64dbg and HxD to do his analysis. Most likely he is either using IDA or Ghidra also for static analysis. But showing assembly code makes you look smarter ;) They aren't easy tools to use by any means, and you definitely need to have a programming background first so you're familiar with concepts like memory, types, control flow and pointers and can apply that knowledge to guess how the game was programmed, if you wanted to take on the challenge of figuring it all out yourself. I'd recommend following Stephen Chapman's Cheat Engine tutorials, which covers much of the same ground.
"Discount Markiplier" SENT me
Just discovered these videos and I must know: WHERE IS ALL THE OTHER LEGO ISLAND CONTENT? You have given me a need for modded lego island I never knew I had 😭
"Discount markiplier" killed me xD
I loved the "Scumbags" logo. Nice touch.
I love programming journeys like this. It's like when I backported some bug fixes to Botania- all the hard work was done for me in the easiest of examples, I just had to match up the class names so they matched the older Forge environments.
I've basically binge watched your channel in the last few days and you have quite some amazing content, kudos from Italy :) It would be really cool to see some introduction to decompiling a game, like you did in some parts of this video but with more detail on which lines to watch and how does that decompiler work
Finally, a sequel to one of my favorite videos!
"They were planning on firing the whole team!" The screen matches my opinion.
A++ I think I only beat this game with Pepper as a 90's kid. Need to go back and beat the whole cube.
The simple windows api (win2K) call had a horrendous resolution of 16 ms. Spinning your own took time and introduced more sources for bugs. Some games tried to display the FPS by just dividing 1 second by the time it took to render a frame in milliseconds. Less than 1 millisecond? 0. What happens when you divide 1 by 0? Crash. I still have some old games that can only be run at less than 100 FPS or they start bugging out and crashing. The good old games that needed the "turbo" button to be playable.
Glad you've found your niche, love videos like this
I’m absolutely enthralled by your videos about a game I’ve never played (:
"asian keanu reeves" but he--- ugh
“Whoops! You have to put the CD in your computer.”
I wouldn't mind playing it at 15 FPS, it's more nostalgic that way anyone remember Lego Island 2?
1. Lego island is the only game where a low framerate is a good thing. (To me at least.) 2. I am very fond of Lego island 2. (I owned it as a 4 y.o.)
Played Lego Island 2 a lot as a kid, still have the disk somewhere...
I wish I would’ve known about your channel years ago. I’m pretty much into everything you do on your channel. I just wanted to say hi! And that I absolutely love the content you create, I can watch for hours and not realize how much time has passed by lol 😂 but ya keep it up man. Much love from the USA
I'd love to see fixes and restorations on other games that need mods. Subscribed
I grew up with Lego Island as well as a couple other very basic Lego games from the era. After I did the haunted house gokart race I had nightmares about it lmao. I definitely remember the island being larger than it actually is. also always disapointed by the helicopter, being a helicopter nerd myself, I wanted to fly it around but it flies a preprogrammed path. It would be a blast to play LEgo Island in VR or to play that map in another game like Pavlov. thanks for all this work decompiling and fixing it, i'm gonna play it again after 20 years :)
I just recently taught myself about Delta time and implemented a variable framerate in my own game project. Technically it's capped at 600fps, but my machine only hits ~340fps in my test room. No minimum Delta yet - but only because it's still a work in progress and I haven't yet decided what value to set it to.
Lego city: *character turns a certain amount per frame me in unity: haha time.deltatime go BRRRRRRRRRRRR
Waiting for more Lego island content! Love what you have done!
I had a map of LEGO Island printed above my computer desk for a long time. I’m going to install it and try this. Loving your channel.
I literally just listened to you for near 15 minutes talk about how once upon a time, someone forgot to times their speed by delta time. Your voice hooked my while i rolled this J up i guess. *Toke* Auto Debugger is fuckin sweet
I've found that keeping the turn speed at the default of 20 after unhooking it results in the speed now being way, way too low - the process of unhooking inherently slows it down. I find that 60 is a good number for the unhooked turn speed.
And after all this time staring at lego island footage, I still don't know what it's all about
I remember playing this on a really slow computer for the time. Each frame took. like, 5 seconds or something ridiculous like that. I remember interacting with things and it dragging on forever. I just eventually stopped playing the game and got in to playing with my Mighty Max toy sets. That spider and lizard was dope as hell.
I like these videos! Honest question, is Lego island abandonware, or do I need to find an actual disk somewhere?
@Fro Zen Awesome! Thanks!
Abandonware is just a fancy psuedo-legal term fyi, it's still teeeechnically not 'legal' to download an abandonware title. It just means it's not available for sale anywhere, so there isn't really much difference between 'illegally' and 'legally' getting a copy
@@SpeedySPCFan but when its abandonware they wont go out of the way to shut down downloads atleast
i remember this game even being too fast on my windows xp dell dimension 3200
it was too fast on 98 machine we had
Bruh I reinstalled this like 10 years ago on a nostalgia trip and remember thinking “damn was turning really this janky? ”. 10 years later I know why 😂
(Starts game without CD) (Lego Man) WHOOPS! (Stock scream)
would be a blessing if someone were to release the source code of lego island somehow
I mean it would be _really_ cool *cough, cough* *nudge, nudge*
wellnotme The master tape is lost in a fire from what I remember from this channel’s other Lego Island video
@@Super2Donny wasn't that the soundtrack master tapes
Released like Doom
Didnt you watch the video? Likely the source code is just lost.
2:51 Well, Mindscape closed in 2011. What's what scumbags get for being PoS :)
Damn you bring so much memorys back with the Lego Isöand videos. Soooooo long ago..... I feel old now
Lot of good chiptune songs packed in this video, a list of them would be great. Music that starts at 2:15 is zacat by Zalza.
The same thing applies to newer MS-DOS laptops when you try to run older games on them; they are simply unplayable. However, the new Sinclair ZX Spectrum remake computer can run old games at a fast (but playable) frame rate. Maybe the LEGO team could’ve learned from this.
Somehow I've never played this game and it's still nostalgic
making me remember one time i felt like replaying MechWarrior 3. i grabbed that for an old Dell laptop i had about 5-6 years ago, which was ok for it's time, but overkill for MechWarrior. i booted the game up, did a skirmish match after customizing a MadCat, and i couldn't play at all. for some reason, the increased CPU performance from what the game was designed for made it so the mech's legs were stuck in the ground and couldn't move. it was like they'd try to move, but then clip into the floor and was stuck in place. looking up the issue online, i found some app that would slow down my processor clock speed to the point the game would play normally
A man has fallen into a river in Lego city
that velocity turning thing would be fantastic if you simply increased the acceleration and deceleration rate; that would make it more responsive while also making sure a tiny tap of the key didn't jerk you left or right suddenly
I wish I grew up in a time to experience this game as a child, sadly I couldn't...
ThatRockstarDirector same :[
i did :(
You poor soul
Same
I remember having a cd with something related to Lego but we could never get it to work, it was probably Lego Island :(
The firing them to get out of paying bonuses is, or was, a standard practice at LOTS of game publishers. They would use promises of post-shipping bonuses to motivate the team during 'crunch time' leading up to project completion (caused by the management teams poor planning and generally doing their jobs terribly) and then either fire everyone immediately before/after shipping, or, if they thought they could get away with it, transfer them onto another project and tell them they don't qualify for the bonus because they were transferred. It's really remarkable how thoroughly the gaming industry exploits all kinds of people because they know the people actually want to work on games.
multiplying every movement vector by a floating point delta time value takes a lot of processing power, so it's sometimes better to not apply the delta time value everywhere, so you can have more things going on in the time a bunch of costly floating-point multiply operations would take.
Do you mean something like... sum all the forces acting on an entity, and only then do the delta-time multiplication on that total once per frame? That's what I'm doing too.
@@whoshotdk No, as in, sometimes devs will choose not to multiply the forces on each object by delta time because it frees up some CPU time that they can use to process more objects
im assuming it uses fmul instruction which yeah... its slow
I REALLY wanna know the story behind the company firing them and such, did they really get away with that??
Awesome content, I love game programming related videos.
7:35 is this track from 50 Classic Games on the DS? I remember falling asleep to that music and it sounds awfully familiar
Played through on an XP (and a Vista one to lesser extent) when I was little and never knew those weren't how the controls were supposed to be. Thought it was a little fast, but wasn't the worst issue. The worst issue I had probably had to do with the internal specs or something. The inside of buildings would flicker or mostly show themselves as a flat light blue color, bricks (both in building and when chasing the Brickster) could only be interacted with if *just* the right spot was clicked... it was weird. Playable, but weird.
Next video : How I replaced Lego island lightning to a raytracing system
Apparently someone did that with the original doom so it's not necessarily impossible
My phone is on 0% and I have it on maximum power saving mode, let's go bois!
Did it survive?
@@samsungtab3977 sadly no, but it lived!... because I found my charger the next morning.
Amazing how satisfying it is to watch a guy and his obsession with a now 22 year old game. I also have lego island still in my heart and i still have the win 98 pc of my dad for nostalgy i reactivated it a few days ago and it sill runs flawlesly the good old pentium 3
As a QA I've noticed devs are very specific what should be called bug versus what shouldn't be as "bug" suggests it's an error in their code. So when you said that the devs admitted they noticed the "bug" only later suggests they had a clear idea how the turning should work and it is not working as they intended and your exploration of their code confirms this. If it was a forgotten framerate cap then they would perhaps label it as a bug for the whole game rather than just turning. Of course, that was long time ago and I don't know the full context so I'm just guessing.
Never played this game, but it was an interesting video.
I noticed a similar thing revisiting Lego Island 2. The helicopter is way too fast on modern PCs. I just fixed it by using the Nvidia control panel to lock my monitors frame rate at 30 FPS.
I haven't tested it a whole lot yet, but there does seem to be a little quirk with this method: it seems the turning speed doesn't go slower when you are in the air. During the jet ski race, holding turn while going off one of the ramps will cause you to face the wrong way once you land. Possible this is a thing even when using a computer from the time, but you do have to hold the turn button down, not just tap it, making me think it is related to the turn speed still.
wait... "it wasn't personal - it was just business". THATS A LINE FROM THE LEGO MOVIE!
"Delta-time is a solution that all games should use, and if a game doesn't, then that just means the devs forgot." I really don't think that's reasonable... delta-time is a design choice, not some magic bullet that a dev would be stupid to not use. It complicates the hell out of game logic, leading to a bunch of bugs when not done correctly. Just look at GTA San Andreas to see how bad it can get.
12:30 what is this song? someone? please?
7:00 this music.. I recognize it from a boardgame compilation game for the Nintendo DS 😂
I love that you're doing stuff with lego island. It's of my favourite lego games😂😂
What was the actual solution you implemented? Turn on smooth turning, and set acceleration to 50k?
late reply, but it's just basically "current_turnspeed = max_turnspeed * delta_time"
Matt is not discount Markiplier. He's Markiplier, but cooler.
in the GoldenEye 007 (n64) the movement speed is tied to the FPS. so a speedrunner looked at the ground. and got the world record. there would be a same case with fallout 3 and new vegas but theres a rule that is just that you need the FPS to be capped at 60 (not sure might be 59 fps)
5:30 SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!