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Correction to what I say at 11:53 -- I was referring to Milgram's famous experiments in which people administered electroshocks to others when ordered so. It had nothing to do with prisons. The prison experiment was from Philip Zimbardo, not Milgram. Sorry about that.
When we come together in groups we can be so much more than the sum of the parts. But sometimes groups are just much more stupid. Collective stupidity is the flipside of collective intelligence, and we see it a lot on social media. Why are groups sometimes collectively stupid and sometimes not? What can we do to be more intelligent in groups? In this video I explain the most important points.
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00:00 Intro
00:45 Emergent behaviour
04:12 Collective intelligence
07:58 Collective stupidity
14:49 What can we do?
18:34 Nautilus Special Offer!
#science #socialmedia
When I was young, my father told me that the louder and more confident sounding a person was, the more you should be suspicious of the points they were trying to make. This perspective has served me well in life.
Oh, ja-ja! Frau Hossenfelder sounds pretty loud and VERY confident. I guess you should be worried.
@@romank.6813 Who?
@@jaroslavpesek6642 The author of this video. The channel is named after her. It seems individual stupidity can still compete with the collective one.
@@romank.6813 Let me get this right: You think Frau Hossenfelder is stupid? No no, I won't insult you or anything if you do. I just want to know what we're all dealing with here. 🙂
Confidence shouldnt be the sole factor for you to question the legitimacy of one's abilities. As Aristotle says, demonstrate what you know. If they cant do that, then you know they are full of shit.
Can we take a minute to appreciate Sabine's excellent sense of dry German humour?
Was going to comment on the humor myself. A wonderful gem of YT educational entertainment.
Dry German humour does not exist. Which makes Sabine's ability to rise beyond her cultural environment all the more admirable.
@@EduardvanKleef I've been living in Germany for the last 11 years- Germans are funnier than the stereotypes picture them. Although their general sense of humour might not be everyone's cup of tea.
@@KostasHolopain I've lived (as a foreigner) in Germany for the most of the past 28 years after living in Britain for four years and some other countries in between. I agree that Germans are funnier than the stereotypes picture them. German stand-up comedians mostly grin into the camera to signal the audience that it's time to laugh, although there are exceptions (e.g. Dieter Nuhr) and it's generally been getting better.
@@EduardvanKleef to be honest, I am not into German stand up comedy, perhaps for the reasons you mentioned, so I can't give a valid opinion on the subject. I was making a general statement based on my experiences with friends and co workers. Which makes my statement rather subjective and debatable. I only know that the people I come in contact with, are generaly good natured and humorous. I am lucky!
You've all probably heard this one before.... A teacher was giving a lesson about the Salem Witch Trials and he set up the rules for a practical hands-on lesson. “I'm going to come around and whisper to each of you whether you're a witch or a regular person. “ Your goal is to build the largest group possible that does NOT have a witch in it. At the end, any group found to include a witch gets a failing grade." The teens dove into grilling each other. One fairly large group formed, but most of the students broke into small, exclusive groups, turning away anyone they thought gave off even a hint of guilt. “Okay," the teacher said. "You've got your groups. Time to find out which ones fail. All witches, please raise your hands." No one raised a hand. The kids were confused and told the teacher he'd messed up the game. "Did I? Was anyone in Salem an actual witch? Or did everyone just believe what they'd been told?" And that is how you teach kids how easy it is to divide a community. Given our current state of affairs, does this sound familiar to anyone? Does it not reflect the current affairs globally? So ask yourself the question, who is making the claims and who benefits? It's almost never a case of this side is always wrong or this side is always the right side.
we played this except we also voted who would get metaphorically burnt at the stake and someone voted to burn the entire class
That's awesome, and the parallels to our current society are scary.
Reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment, which I still don't understand how it was possible. Maybe I'm immune to group think or the herd mentality. I'll never understand how it's so easy to manipulate people
@tetrasphere8165 yeah, I think it's because if people in a group don't y'know see the people in the group as beneath them or dumber than them, they'll trust their ideas or statements because they'll believe almost everyone around here is as smart as them (which is usually true) thus making it so they're less likely to think deeply about it due to it being a complicated topic. And that's what most of the people in the group are assuming too, allowing the spreading of stupid ideas that were being shared with the utmost confidence. Though even I don't get how the results of the stanford prison experiment came to be.
You need to do a long you tube on this
My mother started warning me at a very early age,”beware of the crowd mentality”. I think she was talking about “Group Stupidity”.
Here in the United States we just call it the American people.
@@user-it3nx6xk8lwrong!!! This American people call it Congress or all of Washington DC really.
I figured it out on my own
In college I had a class in critical thinking. The instructor had us get into groups of 7. We read compound sentences and interpreted the sentences. We agreed on several compound sentences but then came a confusing sentence. We debated and 6 of us agreed that the sentence meant one thing but the 7th team member disagreed. One fellow just said “he’s wrong, move on.” I said “let him explain himself, because maybe he’s right.” And so we heard the lone dissenter, and it became clear to all of us, except the guy that wanted to move on quickly, that the lone dissenter was correct in his analysis. The guy that refused to listen to the lone dissenter never would change his mind. But I wonder if that wasn’t some sort of a social experiment and the disagreeable fellow was a plant to see how we would respond. I’d like to believe we passed the test, if it was a test.
Ever watch 12 Angry Men? Very similar to that situation.
Good for you asking the question! Questioning everything is central to Critical thinking. Only Lazy minds blindly accept what they are told. - _“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”_ Thomas Jefferson
Critical thinking and the basis of proof should be taught a lot earlier than college. A glaring omission. I speculate its because there are too many unfounded beliefs out there so critical thinking would offend too many vested interests. Unfortunately most people are not taught this, even at college.
@@alanrobertson9790 The truth is even worse. Critical thinking was deliberately removed from the curriculum (U.S. and other western societies) and has been for a long time now. Western school systems are based on the Prussian school system, which was introduced to do 2 things. Prepare youth for the industrial revolution, and make them more compliant to authority. The system does this by removing the "Trivium" (Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric), a.k.a. the liberal arts. These are considered to be the fundamental educational points that a person needs to be free. An example I found, which illustrates the difference in the educational styles, is the Prussian based system is like teaching a person to play an individual song. The person would learn where to hold the chords, when to strike the strings, etc. At the end of the education the person would know how to play that one song... but not other songs. To learn other songs they would need to keep returning to their teacher (beholden to an authority figure) to learn a new song. With the Trivium however, the person would be taught music theory, how to read music, etc. At the end of their education, which would take a little bit more time, they would now be able to play any song, and even compose music themselves! Now obviously in our current education system this isn't specifically how music is taught, but it is the nature of how our kids are educated. It's like giving a person a fish vs. teaching them how to fish... only with thought/ knowledge. Some people figure these things out on their own... but many remain trapped. I would even say even college is no longer a place of critical thinking (aside from the science based courses), as we are seeing large groups of kids come out that are saying "gender is all a perspective", with a complete disregard to the biology that was previously associated with it. They are also "cancel culturing" anyone that tries to oppose the view. It's downright Orwellian. Critical thinking can't currently be expected from public schools. Hopefully aware parents will do what they can to teach their kids, and we can only hope other people start to wake up to the truth and glean rational thoughts where they can.
We saw in practice the world isn't a critical thinking world
My Mom used to work with a child abuse agency. She said that there is a special way to question kids so you don't influence what they say. Kids often say what they think you want to hear instead of their personal observations, so you have to avoid asking leading questions. For example, if you are asking about if a door was open or closed, you ask "how was the door?"
Very insightful. Give the disadvantaged person the lead but don't make an issue of it in any way
Well that's interesting because I think many people would not want to hear about child abuse at all and likely deter victims if they use a scolding tone or ignore them completely. As an adult victim I found I had to apologize to people just for telling them because I knew they didn't really care.
@@annalisavajda252these days it's the other war around, ppl leap at any hint of child abuse; notice the absence of men in early education? This is the reason; normal interactions with young children are suspect when a man is involved, so men opted out of that fraught environment.
It hasn't been that way for a while. Social workers I had to deal with made it abundantly clear which answers were correct. It also became apparent that anything I said in mom's defense was extremely suspect, but anything I said that could be construed as against her was gospel. I only recently got over hating southern women, and regained tolerance for, if not trust in the government. I'll probably always hold a grudge against the profession for taking away my way of life.
@@annalisavajda252 Sounds right. Most people have little or no empathy and will back an abuser over a good person but whinge when they get dumped on.
Human ignorance is the biggest problem facing humanity. This is an excellent video that just touches on this topic. There if far more to this subject than people realize.
I agree with your statement but I'd like to make one correction. We are all ignorant to some degree which means we just don't know everything. But to be willfully ignorant is unforgivable especially considering that most of us have a smartphone and could easily look up something but the willfully ignorant won't do that it would destroy the illusion that they're right .
Yes, but, the stupidity is a choice. There seems to be an emergence of “character weakness” in this current round of stupidity. Rather than dealing with the weakness by trying to get rid of it or at least keep it in a place where you hide other aspects of life that may not cast you in the most forthright manner. We all have our closets. The current crowd just cleaned out their closets and because the crap that is coming out resonates with others, some how gives credence to their aberrant behavior, language, and beliefs. Obscenity, like misery likes company.
Yeah it gets deep & usually keep a low profile b/c knew better somehow
When I led a team of 130 engineers, managers and other professionals, I found that meeting once a week in an open setting of all primary stakeholders where every stakeholder was given time to speak their mind, report progress, request any needed resources, and identify risks and problems that they see was a critical process step that enabled the entire team to accomplish their extremely difficult and complex goal after 19 months on schedule and under budget. Speaking up was encouraged, and reporting problems and risks at the earliest possible time was rewarded with mitigating resources. Also all was reported up the chain with only minor editorial changes.
Collective stupidity has become a force of nature as of late. I put it down largely to the internet and the echo chambers it has created but there's still more to it...
Yes, and one of the "more to it" items is the creation of swarms of rantbots posing as humans to amplify the message of their owner.
@@TerryBollinger Yeah, the use of things like ChatGPT for propaganda and general misinformation is a cause for concern in my opinion too.
That's how pretty much everybody feels! So who is stupid and who is non-stupid?or, is it subjective? Eric, take it easy. Internet at worst only shows how stupid we already are.. and at its best people use a lot of intelligence generated by the smart guys!
The internet has just returned us to a state similar to smaller communities where we are exposed to everyone's opinion, even the government and big organization capture of the information sources is similar to the control they had over the smaller groups and community. Granted it has removed the few restraints that people usually have by talking to someone in person but that just means you are getting a more truthful representation of the person's self.
Was it formerly authoritative stupidity? On the one hand perhaps its due to individual autonomy, so everyone must hold opinion that they are an expert. Yet it seems illusory- doesn't social media seem to be evolving to waste our time even more, lack any real content and thrive on dissociated states? Isn't there a trend to get involved in heated fights, and reductive focusing on details? A component of empathy is removed by the medium too... If you want an answer to a question no one is interested, if you tweet an incorrect assumption you will get thousands and possibly start a culture war in the process.
This is perfect! I remember my Dad telling me during Covid-19, that ,,You can have as much toilet paper as you want, but it won’t do you any good without something to eat!” 😂😂😂
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ You can always get food and water. Toilet paper, not so much.
@@stewiesaidthat You always need water and food. Toilet paper not so much.
@@planesounds the moral is that people are willing to share food and water. Toilet paper, not so.much. if you want to enjoy the luxury of toilet paper, you are going to have to provide it yourself.
@@stewiesaidthat Exactly, provide it yourself. It doesn't have to come in a sweet smelling roll. You can make it yourself. Either literally, or substitute other paper or cleanse with a wash (bidet). But you get it right when you refer to "the luxury" of toilet paper. I was away from home when the storm broke and there was the rush on the supermarkets where I was. Happened to overnight in a country town over a hundred kilometres from the nearest town and called into the local supermarket. I took the last 4 pack from their shelf and left before the locals saw my out of State number plate. Still have that pack under the back seat in my car. It'll come in handy one day.
You won’t need toilet paper without something to eat.
Logic and common sense are gifts that many are all too willing to throw away.
This reminds me of "Bonhoeffers Theory of Stupidity" which explains nicely how almost everyone you know seemingly lost their minds over the last few years. Fantastic video today!!
Exactly what I was going to comment
Well not exactly but same point
You might be interested in Cipolla's 5 rules of stupidity. It expands on it really well
Trillionbones, thank you for the suggestion. While remedial, Sprouts, does a nice summary with illustrations here on YT and explained it nicely. Bonhoeffer and Cipolla's theorys work well together. Very illuminating.
I will check those out thanx
Never underestimate the power of herd behaviour. I had an amazing example some years ago (before we all got Waze in our pocket). I was like many other people driving home from holidays. The traffic on the highway was very dense but still fluid. Then there was a police car next to the largest mobile electronic sign that I ever saw outside concerts. It read "Warning ! Work ahead - 1 lane only. Currently : 20 km jam, 4 hours delay! Alternative: take next exit and follow signs. 15 min delay". So I left the overcrowded highway and followed the signs. To my utter amazement,I was totally alone. I saw no car in front of me or in my mirror for about 15 minutes. Talk about ignoring your personal information to follow the herd 😮 Herd behaviour is exacerbated in stress and disaster situations. I had emergency training with firemen for my work and one of the first thing they taught was that, if you are ever caught in a disaster, ignore the crowd, stop 30 seconds to observe and think by yourself. They had numerous examples of crowds passing right in front of emergency exits and ignoring them, or worse, running towards the danger...
I used to drive on a very busy county road to go home from work, usually for an hour. Then it occurred to me the 25 mph streets were faster even at a lower speed. If I took regular streets I usually home in 25 minutes or so.
I don't think anyone who understands herd behaviour underestimates it given the number of theists on this rock
Herd behaviour obviously has some benefit. If nobody is taking the emergency exits there may be a good reason for it. The impala that stops to question why the herd is disappearing west in a hurry is hyena food.
Politicians love herd behavior, especially the capacity of people to ignore logic and embrace patently stupid ideas. Just consider what activates many activists, intellectually vapid slogans that can be repeated incessantly. Collectivists love this -- ask Mao.
More recently: the jibbie-jabs. Speaking about collective stupidity... Not so safe and effective after all. Many intellectuals fell for that worldwide psy-op, and are even still in denial, usually because they fell for it
Great video and explanations as usual. One minor correction. The "prison experiment" was conducted by Philip Zimbardo at Standford . Stanley Milgram is known for his experiments on obedience conducted in the 1960s during his professorship at Yale.
Yes, you are right of course, sorry for that blunder! I put a correction in the info below the video.
now im gonna amplify that by saying IM SO CONFIDENT Sabine doesnt know to lace her shoes unless they are entangled somehow :P JOKE EVERYBODY !
@@SabineHossenfelder Why can't posters on here admit they make blunders like you????
Thanks. I didn't give a second thought that Milgram's punishment experiment didn't take place in a prison. While I would have guessed it used non-Incarcerated people, I assumed Sabine must have been right and I updated my knowledge on that particular obscure bit of information accordingly. Milgram's more famous experiment is famous, but I'll proly never have use for it in conversation.
@@kenhickford6581 its counter productive ? :(
I love it!: "I've given up on correcting Wikipedia on quantum mechanics". Spot on Sabine.
🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍
It comes down to asking the correct question and allowing all possible answers .. Not giving a limited selection of answers to obtain the prefered / desired results .
This is the difference between a didgetal computer and a quantum computer .
One of the many great pieces of advice my dad gave me is: If EVERYONE is doing it or saying it or thinking it, proceed with caution and examine it closely. I have added to that: The truth or reality is static, but perceptions are dynamic.
There use to be another saying for this my grandmother liked to pull on me when I got caught doing something stupid, like smoking, because I was in a group of people that were all doing something stupid. "If everyone was jumping off a [ cliff / bridge ] would you do it too?" Covid very clearly demonstrated that the last people we should be listening to are the first people to solidify their opinions, demand censorship of all conflicting discussion and insist everyone else stop poking holes and just do what they're told for a hamburger, or else.
Your last sentence is now an official 'life quote' for me 💛
Nice to be the son of Kant
@@jose.montojah You could say my father was a Rekant.
Your father's advice is very wise, and your addition is brilliantly formulated.
I always thought how fascinating it is that insects, like Bees or Ants that aren't really intelligent at all, can create huge and complex structures. Emergence is one of the coolest phenomenons in nature!
I agree!
if you're interested in emergence, watch the lecture Sean Carroll did on it.
Always makes me think of the book "Gödel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter, in which he describes an intelligent conversation with an ant hill.
@@renedekker9806 I've heard about that book! Is it good? I really need to finally put it on my list haha.
This video got me wondering: Might the existence of such incredibly precise and powerful constructs as DNA be a consequence of some particularly subtle form of "group" intelligence? But if so, what are the units of the group? The fact that my brain goes blank when trying to answer this question is precisely why I find it intriguing.
“Fundamentally there’s no difference btwn u and a cheese cracker “ is my new favorite quote.
It's been a while since visiting. I forgot how dead pan hilarious Sabine is. 'Prevent my hair from looking like cauliflower', 'you vs. a cheese cracker! > I had to back that one up, wasn't sure I 'heard what I heard"! Thanks Sabine, for the education and the laughs.
I heard her say hair like sour kraut.
I learned this one absolutely years ago in my youth. I knew (I didn't grow up in Europe) that Poland had a coastline. Obviously. I was decently educated enough to know this simple fact. I met a friend who came from the UK, and swore up and down that it did not! He was emphatic! He was so certain of himself. I am the 8th child of 9. I was NEVER the best in my family in any subject or sport and had been badly bullied at school. I doubted myself despite the certain knowledge Poland had a coast, after hearing him be so certain I was wrong and he was right. After years of always being told I was wrong in everything, I shrugged and said "you must be right". Later, I checked because of a nagging feeling. Nope, I have been right all along. Later as I lived longer and got older and just a little bit wiser, I discovered that I had been put down unfairly by others. I was right far more often than wrong and that others had caused me to have an unjustly negative self image. I had been trained to consider myself automatically as of less value and wrong compared to others. Now I question even those who seem convinced of themselves. I am still not always right. I am not as intelligent as I would like to be and I know that I am only a short distance above the average, aka, enough to obtain a bachelors degree. This doesn't mean I allow myself to be swept aside any more and I am no longer as easy to fool. Confidence or lack thereof is a HUGE factor in this. People put their faith too easily in those who speak with emphatic confidence rather than real experts because we naively assume no one would be so certain unless they had facts. But there is a large group of the population who fall in the dunning kruger way, to the false self belief in themselves that is the polar opposite of the condition I once had having no faith in myself whatsoever. These people believe they are always right despite having very little knowledge or facts on their side, and speak with conviction, misleading the crowds. Just trust NONE of it. Neither yourself nor others without checking into all of whatever it is yourself carefully. And then check again doubted your first conclusion. I never followed the crowd. That was part of my school yard downfall. I refused to follow, and became a loner. This no longer leaves me feeling the least bit sad. When I got to uni, I discovered veritable communities of loners! And we are better off than the followers. They are walking about with blindfolds on being led by the untrustworthy.
How you think is more important than what you think. BTW, 5-10% of all people are loners. Without them, human societies might not be able to survive in the long term. Unfortunately, some loners choose to deny their nature, but they make poor joiners.
It sounds like you found yourself on the other side of that Dunning-Kruger curve, where critical thinkers misjudge their own aptitude as lower than it actually is. I'm glad you've overcome your irrational self-doubt, while still holding a healthy sense of intellectual humility that we are all sometimes wrong. I respect and admire your love of the truth.
Thanks for sharing your story, can feel with you, and assume, Bee is the same type, just a lot smarter. Yes most people are braggart, happily I found some friends anyway, hope you too. I'm curious, what's your country, any coastline there?
@@kensho123456 That would be awkward, as my husband (not the man mentioned here) is English.
Thank you for the very kind words everyone. We were playing a quiz game at the time, list every country you can think of with a coast line. All countries correct, one point, any country wrong, minus 10.
In the meetings I have to attend, I'm intentionally going with declaring my opinions pretty quickly with a prefix roughly along the lines "My first feeling is that ..." - I've found that it helps other people to express their non-final opinions, too. And I think it pretty clearly conveys that I'm willing to change my opinion during the discussion.
Don't even get me started on typical meetings run by inexperienced managers who let them proceed as pure office politics sh*t shows. Everyone vehemently arguing against people they want to step over and agreeing with only what the manager says. Even when it's blatantly wrong. Totally unproductive and pointless.
I do the same thing, Mikko. I say my opinion and stress that it's "non-final" as you say, then ask for input. About 60% of the time, we don't change what we're doing. About 30% of the time, the convo goes in the direction of improving that thing we're talking about. And about 40% of the time (overlapping the edges of the 60 and 30), we decide to discuss it again in 6 months or a year; in other words, "We favor changing it, but it's not high enough of a priority, so let's come back to it in 3 months."
@@justaskin8523 Sounds pretty similar to my experiences! Though the percentage for "this is not high enough priority right now, postpone" is even higher for our team. The problem with that style is that in long run, you'll have a huge pile of postponed things simply because no couldn't make a decision "we'll not do that at all".
So radical honesty creates learning networks but lying creates misinformation cascades? Just like _pseudo logos_ are indistinguishable to _logos_ ?
It would be so nice if you instead adhered to statistical probabilities.
Absolutely love the use of common sense put forth on this channel. Thank you.
Reminds me of the jury I was on when a couple of jurors managed to change the minds of 10 others. Good video Sabin and love your humorous outbursts.
Sounds like 12 Angry Men.
Being on a jury is my worst nightmare. If the state hasn't made it's case and you think the defendant is a psycho, what do you do if you're the only holdout?
@@nerdyali4154 You continue to vote "not guilty", and continue to explain why. It can be very difficult. Many people can't stand the social pressure.
I was on jury duty. The judge explained our technical duty in law. The jury members were pathetic and ignored what they had just been told. Sheep. I stuck to my guns, guilty on 3 irrefutable points. Not guilty on the other 4 with no proof. No other way possible, what a bunch of nitwits. 😔
I'm glad the phenomenon of confident people dragging down collective performance was mentioned. I feel there's a lot more to it, though. 'Group politics' for example. A member of a group might say or do things they don't think are for the best, because they were influenced by others. There could be a any number of motivations for doing so. To my experience, there is almost always someone in a group who seek to control what others say or do. Usually they fall in the category of 'confident people'. Sometimes that's a good thing (people confident in their ability happen to be right at times), but often it isn't.
When you discover that you are by far the most capable/knowledgeable person in the group, leave…let them spin their wheels while you have a nice cup of coffee. The fad for “teamwork” promotes mediocre results. Not to put too fine a point on it, Richard Feynman left the Challenger investigation committee and solved the problem quickly.
Just feeling like Grotendik when he said that the "job is done, what next ?" ❤
. Considering that the hot gas seal problem was fully identified and understood at the hands-on engineering level before the launch, how did Feynman contribute to the recognition of the management level political problem that allowed the cheese holes to line up?
@@barbaraseville4139 "When you discover that you are by far the most capable/knowledgeable person in the group, leave…let them spin their wheels while you have a nice cup of coffee." Yep, Barbara, that's precisely what I did when everybody started talking about doubling and tripling up masks, and now when the same people insist that we need "boosters" every couple months. Meanwhile, they are ignoring the plain facts and the increased incidents of myocarditis amongst our younger generation. One of the absolutely most dangerous things about groupthink is that the group often finds it more difficult to get over their cognitive dissonance and normalcy bias than an individual might. It's always the group who is filming a gruesome crime happening right in front of them, and it's always an individual who steps in to stop that crime and the criminal perpetrating it, right there, dead in its tracks.
@@Mentaculus42 By demonstrating the simple and blindingly obvious mechanism, the only explanation left was stupidity/malfeasance on the part of management.
I’m so impressed with how you weave everything together to make important topics accessible, understandable and entertaining to learn about. Kudos to you.
So radical honesty creates learning networks but lying creates misinformation cascades? Just like _pseudo logos_ are indistinguishable to _logos_ ?
When everyone in a collective is their own individual, then the collective is smarter, but peer pressure makes the collective dumber. In the 1960s I was taught this in primary school, and by my scout master, and by my father. It is old school common sense but just seems new and wise in today's follow-the-crowd mentality.
José: "Radical" honesty?
Fascinating, as always. Thank you for your diligence and all the work that went into this amazing presentation.
So glad I got your channel recommended. Truly great science content.
At 0:25 in, I want to say absolutely.. when I was teaching complex software, students always found things I didn't know, by accident or not, it didn't matter (though it was accidental perhaps 60-80% of the time). I have learned to listen to people who know nothing even when going on tangents I think I can predict, because sometimes there's something in there that you will find useful, even if it's just a seed that plays on knowledge you already had and the other person can't understand the same details as you.. fresh perspectives pave the way for progress, and that often still succeeds or leads to other successes even if they misunderstood some things. Idea-people aren't always useless, if you have the time and patience for them. And you can plant the seeds of education with them for them to potentially oneday be the expert, too, furthering the field by inclusion and informal education that leads them into a passion for the subject. Plus, if you don't listen to them, they may not want to listen to you, so to make that happen, it's somewhat needed. Now I'll watch the remaining 20 minutes and 28 seconds, and surely more comments will follow 🤣
Absolutely! Just like how art made by an AI may not have any intention behind it, we can still derive a lesson from it nonetheless. If people gain inspiration from the inanimate, then is should come as no surprise these "Idea-people" do the same
Sabine, with dry humor and great clarity of thought you explain these intuitively obvious things so well!
Sabine, I also appreciate your videos and explanations provided. Thank you for the excellent work!
What a pleasure it is to follow Sabine. Great work.
I once watched individual ants in an ant farm, moving bits of rock hither and yon. Each ant's actions seemed random. They even often undid the work of their fellows! Yet tunnels and caves, and an entire structure, magically appeared anyway.
We've sure built a lot of stuff, but people are starting to wonder to what end? Is this the utopia we were hoping for, with the environment at crisis point and immense uncertainty about the near future and the damage people could do to each other? I feel like there's a sense of disappointment and realisation that we are a bit of a mess, now that we can see over the horizon in every direction.
That happens in groups of humans that theoretically have leadership and a carefully formulated strategy, i.e. corporations. Individuals make mistakes; some individuals are pursuing their own agenda. I suspect that success depends on the strength of the plan as well as the proportion of misaligned inputs.
@@BlueZirnitra utopia? We are living in an absolute capitalist dystopian nightmare, though the majority of suffering is in the poorer exploited countries.
@@BlueZirnitra well hey at least the immense uncertainty is more man-made than it's ever been. The immense uncertainty of life used to be blamed on gods! Don't worry, you have the prospect of getting your holy certainty back when you do everything a machine mind tells you to.
@@preservedmoose jesus christ, speak for yourself. Everything that a poor person has was made by a rich person, and everything that a rich person has was made by a poor person. I'm an economically enlightened proto-centrist and you should be too.
Thank you for a really interesting video! Collective stupidity, or the madness of crowds, is a huge topic with many fascinating facets to think about. You talked about how confident people can influence others to go with their ideas, even though being confident doesn't mean they're more likely to be right - but there's lots of other reasons people let others make decisions for them. We all do it every day. The world is just too complicated for any individual to fully comprehend, so we use heuristics to decide when to trust others. In addition to confidence we often trust other people when they appear to be on "our side," or when we perceive that they self-identify with the same traits that we do. This is how con men and grifters get past our defenses. They pretend to be members of the same group who want to share their knowledge with us because it benefits the group, but really they're using deception to benefit themselves. Grifters can start information cascades that last long after their individual grifts are done, with victims refusing to admit they were wrong. This is the source of a lot of misinformation we encounter today. I think crowds are most wise when the individuals within them have no particular incentive to pick one option over another. In addition to confidence we have to wary of those who have a self interest in the topic that's being debated.
Sounds like you're talking about Boris Johnson and Donald Trump.
@@JibbaJabber He could be talking about a wide variety of people. That you interpreted it as talking about them says more about you than it does about what he was actually talking about.
There is one big problem today Sabine omitted, kids are not being encouraged to think critically, they become adults who outsource all their "facts", because like you said, they believe the world is too complex, they lack rational reasoning ability, at the same time, we have socialist ideas in schooling, whereby underperforming students are led to believe they are the equals of the top students, so they run around with flat earth theories, quite sure of themselves and not prepared to listen, ignorant to the fact that it takes people EFFORT and curiosity to understand things.
@@motherofallemails "There is one big problem today Sabine omitted, kids are not being encouraged to think critically, they become adults who outsource all their "facts"..." - You are so right about this, and it greatly worries me for the next generation.
@@JibbaJabber Each of us will naturally have our own individual thoughts about who Kevin above is talking about. And that's fine. Believe what you want. But just because you named those two individuals, that doesn't make you right. Or clever. You may indeed be right or clever, but I won't assume it. Probably neither should you. 😏
Im quickly becoming a fan , Sabina. Your clarity s refreshing.
Thanks! Keep making these great videos. As an American living in Germany for 5 years, I appreciate your sense of humor in ways not possible if I had never left the USA. You are an excellent explainer. Please keep sharing your insights.
The built in fear of missing out, or not wanting to look different seems to drive a lot of behavior. I did the looking up at a building corner to demonstrate it to a friend many years ago and almost got beaten up when I told my friend, loud enough for the people also standing looking at nothing to hear, "i told you looking at nothing would attract a crowd". But I've always been a bit of a prankster. Also never conformed to "the norm" and speak my mind - no real fear of missing out or wanting to look like others (a bonus of having Aspergers).
I agree. Nobody has diagnosed me with Aspergers but I have always felt like this too. I would rather be (temporarily) lonely than follow the wrong herd. We still have politicians in the US, like Paul Vallas in Chicago and Andrew Yang in NYC, copying Trump. They do it because they can reliably attract a crowd of scared white people and milk them for personal information and/or money -- and possibly attain positions of high power doing so. It's very disturbing to me.
Very interesting, I hadn’t though it as being advantageous but I can see your point.
Yup, as a fellow aspie, I can concur.
You're right, but to be a "great leader", you need to be a psychopath and probably a narcissist too. Several of the most influential people in the world today are probably all 3.
Another factor, similar to the fear of missing out, is the fear of punishment, this would be the case of closeted homosexuals condemning gay behavior, or following rituals they dont believe in.
Just a quick correction: the “prison” experiments were conducted at Stanford under professor Philip Zimbardo, the obedience to authority experiments were conducted by Milgram. Both are worth referencing in this case.
True slime moulds aren't fungi either, but protists. But yeah, really minor nitpick. And while I'm actuallying, the slime moulds are supposed to be an example of Dijkstra's algorithm in nature, not collective intelligence.
@@dittikke lol I couldn’t help it
@@whatwilliswastalkingabout Oh I'm getting a total blast at knowing something Sabine doesn't. Which was kinda the point of the episode, so maybe it was intentional... I knew about the Milgram obedience experiments (and Zimbardo's too), but I had no idea about the people pointing at nothing experiment.
Were not those studies recently somewhat discredited? I thought I read that somewhere.
@@MalachiWhite-tw7hl some people have criticized the prison experiment for being too callous and lasting longer than it had to. Others have also attempted to replicate it and come up with very different results, apparently.
I did an escape room a couple weeks ago. Afterward, the owner was telling us that there is a sweet spot on the number of people it takes to be fast. Too few, they don't have opinions to find the answer. Too many and you have the opposite problem. It slows the group while listen to the bad ideas. Same concept
So what's the sweet spot?
@@Napo88 According to the lady that owned the place, groups of 4 send to be the highest performers
@@kevinsands6769 Thanks!
Sabine, I appreciate your confident presentation of your ideas.
There's also expectation bias. Especially when you have to present your decision publicly. In this case, instead on relying on the information that you hold, you give your answer based on what you think the group expects you to say. Another case can be, when you want to fit in a group and you weight the answers based on what the most correct one should be based on your knowledge of the group.
Very good video as always! pd. a tiny correction: slime molds are not fungi, but Myxomycetes. A rather weird group that is not clustered in fungi, plants, animals nor bacteria. Just another "protist" group.
this is a German translation "error" slime molds in German are literally called "slime-fungus" (Schleimpilz). It was named before understanding what it is- a misnomer.
@@olik136 pilz mold/mould schimmel it all means fungus in german, english and dutch respectively.. just because an organism's common name involves it shouldnt mean the source material (a scientific paper) can be used as a source for the wrong group of organisms
The topic of collective stupidity reminds me of Stapp's Law: "Our universal aptitude for ineptitude makes every human accomplishment an incredible miracle." Personally, its always spoken to me as the understanding that human beings are fallible as individuals and how those fallacies can influence the collective.
Enjoyed this overview🙏 When I worked in a big CAE software company, loaded with intelligent and conscientious people, and would see releases and schedules still go pretty bad, I called it “communal incompetence” - individuals being just fine but what emerges not so much.🤷🏻♂️
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.” ― Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.
Sure that you're not including women as "herd mentality"? "Mankind"? Doing your thing is not always easy, but it’s worth it. One should try it.
@@Alec_Cox Re: Sure that you're not including women as "herd mentality"? "Mankind"? "The term 'Men' was used by Charles Mackay, not me, he used the term that was accepted at the time of his writing, and times change...Yes? Then again, I guess you had to say something,...Rather than something to say! Get over yourself! Lol!
@@kenhickford6581 So, you obviously, didn't have anything to say yourself, you relied witb a quote that means absolutely nothing, more of a quip, than a quote. Not a thought out post and not from you. I have plenty to say.."Woke crowd"? "Mob mentality"? The "Hive Mind"? People just don't have their own personality, "Social Media Envy"and the "Me-too" crowd.. Just pathetic. I don't and never will understand why people are so apt to be so appeasing when in crowds, such as a meeting, classroom, or a conversation. I've never succumbed to going along with the entire crowd. I am amazed at what comes out of people's minds too, just, "go along to get along". Anyway, your quote sucked and you posted it anyway.
As the "KEN" unit stated it was quoting in quote marks and it's important for non-liars to quote each word as stated, no additions, alterations or omissions, when quoting in quote marks.
@@grindupBaker Great and Fantastic, even. And where does this quote fit into an original post? One that actually includes information other than someone else's thought.. I guess that they just couldn't find their own thought. Glad you joined the herd. Stay well and have a great day.
Look at all the comments pretending they watched a 20 minute video, when the video was only posted 5 minutes ago.
I'm not pretending. 😁
What do you mean? I watch all my videos on 4x speed
Two devices, 2x speed. 😂
.
Cute hair though 🤩
I suspect one can help oneself make the correct Decisions by ensuring that the Information one uses is as independent and unbiased as possible, question always question. Excellent as ever. Vielen Dank.
Thank you for this brilliant analysis!! Among other things, it’s validating of my bias against “confidence culture,” where all you need to fix a sink is “confidence.”
I have done the "look up in the sky" trick, as a child. My father taught it to me. He was wonderfully anti-social in some ways.
Your old man sounds like a pretty cool guy.
Not having seen the video yet, I can only assume this is some Till Eulenspiegel thing :D
My aunt, cousin and I put a twist on this one at the zoo, looking into empty enclosures and exclaiming how cute the nonexistent animal was or pull the old "my god that thing would tear off your arm!" trick 😂
There are funny shows, where 6 people in a waiting room at the doctor, all jump up everytime a bell rings. An unsuspecting client walks in and within two rings, she will join the ridiculous behaviour. Hilarious stuff.
A slightly morbid twist, looking at the nonexistant body in a murky city river
Sabine, I feel this episode is a fundamental stepping stone into something incredibly relevant. Connecting math, psychology, linguistics, and possibly other disciplines.
lmao
One of the biggest problems of our complex times, i believe - and would never have thought about trying to solve it. It's a very exciting topic - thank you Sabine! I learned a lot and had some hearty laughs. As someone else said it nicely: I'm drawn in by the science and i'm staying for the jokes.
This video suggestion came out of nowhere. I love it! Subscribed!
As children discovering our new world we often question "Why?" when presented with adult statements. As adults confronted with beliefs or issues different than ours, I find asking "Why do you believe that?" to be more constructive and informative to both sides of a discussion. Sometimes it's the source of our information or doctrine that needs examination when opposites meet and call each other stupid.
Not trying to be funny, but in all seriousness, why _do_ you believe that?
When only one side of the argument asks that question it doesn't further the discussion though. That seems to be the biggest problem of today.
It can be helpful. But far too many people respond with "because it's true." I generally take such a response to mean that the person has not given it much thought.
"Fundamentally there's little difference between you and a cheese cracker." literally made me breathless with laughter!😆😂🤣😂😅 Your perfectly deadpan delivery is a treasure!👏
And the cheese crackers are wise enough to not object. 😄
I really enjoy your channel. You have a nice sense of humor for a German 😊. The simplicity of your explanations makes the complex concepts more understandable.
Sabine - Great show, as always! Also you look great if I might say so. As I have gotten older I have become more outspoken. I love your channel. I have a technical degree from the late 60's (math and physics) and your show is perfect for someone like me who has forgotten more than I can say. Thanks again for a pleasant time.
Yes, Sabine is looking even hot in her nerdy way.
Outspoken is a word of stupidity, designed by feminista
11:53 Correction: The (Stanford) prison experiment was conducted by Zimbardo. Milgram is known for the shocking experiments on the authority obedience ... (pun intended)
Ah, of course! Facepalm. Sorry about that, I'll put a correction in the info.
Collective Stupidity >> We just saw the greatest Collective STUPIDITY in history when everyone believed the OFFICIAL LIES about the last few years and took the SPECIAL SAUCE infused into them and NOW it is 100% proven how horrible it is for you and how many it has Croaked for taking it!
Just commented the same -(deleted now I’ve spotted the correction)
@@SabineHossenfelder You should have said that this was a test of collective intelligence😉!
@@SabineHossenfelder, not a big deal.... everybody makes mistakes... thanks for a quick correction in description (and for the video[ As far I haven't thanked you before])... I really appreciate when youtubers correct their blunders in such way... It builds some kind of special trust, which really hard to earn othervice ...
Thank you for another great video. I am retired now but I was a manager most of my career in the high tech defense industry. My experience over more than 30 years reinforced all of the ideas that you presented for avoiding collective stupidity. I found the important/urgent table particularly useful. By the way, I believe that the table was originated by Steven Covey in his book, "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People". Although the book title sounds a little like a business fad from the 1980's, I found it had some very useful ideas to improve one's interactions with people. If you haven't read it already, I would highly recommend it.
I don't mind reading it as long as they aren't rude Habits. I don't read those type of books.
what if people are nor urgent and not important, do you eliminate them?
Self-help gurus are often re-packagers. They can still be good ideas, just not necessarily theirs. The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, first published in 1989. Tyranny of the Urgent -- Charles E. Hummel -- First published January 1, 1984 I don't know whether his chart was in the IVP pamphlet by the same name in 1967. "There is nothing new under the sun." -- Ecclesiastes 1:9
@@artsmith1347 "Tyranny of the Urgent -- Charles E. Hummel -- First published January 1, 1984" - Thanks for this, Art. In return, I would highly recommend this book: "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" - by Charles Mackay. First written in the early 1840s, and added to in subsequent years. OMG, it's a fascinating read, and even the writing style, having been of that period, is a refreshing journey into the past. But the past can be a frightening place to visit, especially if there are humans there...so I sure wouldn't want to live there!
I love your subtle but spot on sense of humor.
Excellent discussion. Important theme.
In social media, the most confident voices on the platform are often the ones who influence public opinion. That's why there's a race to the bottom when it comes to intellectual discussions that predictably turns into a shouting match even when the evidence says otherwise. Maybe this isolation into smaller groups makes plenty of sense when making objective decisions on parts of the big picture.
Large groups go for confidence. Dunning-krueger effect (or at least something like it) states that those who are self-critical enough to be correct may be more timid perhaps. Large groups go for simple ideas that the most understand. Even if complexity is comprehended by some, the lowest common denominator will be something highly reduced so there is similarity and consensus of the whole group. The fallacy of simplicity and the quick fix and the lowest common denominator....the principle of least -action- thought.
and evidence has weight too some can be challenging, but critical thinking in general is just hard and impossible on the internet.
Nahh i don´t think so. On important matters there´s deliberate malfeasance at play to disrupt the discussion. Of course the "arguments"´re stupid but it´s on purpose. Just look up an explanatory YT video on climate change. There´s unbeleavable trash dressed up as "arguments".
People follow the leader because he is correct 95% of the time, the 5% is ignored. It is impossible to dispute things that are 100%. Both people cannot be 100% certain unless you want a shouting match. People have to be interested enough for the conversation to be productive. The really smart people are the most honest about their limitations. If a person is thoughtful they could give decent advice. 1. If a 100% of anything is reached than stop and move on. 2. If the person is open to the information, offer it. 3. If you don't care about the topic, end the discussion.
I once expressed a dissenting opinion about an objective topic and labeled it as an opinion and not dispositive for the topic in a high information Facebook group. I also knew more about its history than anyone else. I ended up on the receiving end of personal attacks where they supposedly didn’t happen.
I agree with all of this. The science about thinking is an amazing topic. My example of group behavior being affected (and infected) by social media is how information used to flow when I was younger compared to now. Before the internet, our local news paper had an opinion section to communicate ideas, and if a person thought that the city moving the farmer's market further away from the 202 bypass was a terrible idea, they could share their opinion posted in the news paper and the next town hall meeting like minded individuals who agree with that sentiment could tell the mayor in person and possibly reverse this decision. Fast forward to now. Now an issue that is happening 2000 miles away in a different state is affecting our local town hall meetings and changing local laws when there wasn't even an issue locally. As always, thank you for posting these science updates!
I just loved this video. The dry humor is very much appreciated, too. 🤭
You are so right! I was baffled drawing the line from what you said about stupidity, some time ago and what happened in the first Republican debate. “Averaging collective intelligence only works when the individuals don’t influence each other. ” Paraphrasing. When asked to raise their hand if they would support Trump if nominated, only a few hesitated and looked around for a split of a second.
As always Sabine is both pleasant and informative. The combative nature of the "collective" inspired by a "fearless leader", and fed by propaganda - is an obvious downside to multiplying the power of the individual - but no single human can get to the moon. So there's that. Many thanks for this platform 🙏
Yes, multiplying stupidity is quite dangerous - just look at religions. And they're even defended by non religious people with many of the same fallacies and thinking errors that religions helped propagate, perpetuate, and normalize in societies, all done by "virtue" of might makes right. And religion is just one but historically obvious and most deadly and toxic example of fractal wrongness multiplied by collective stupidity. A couple of things it does really well is twist notions like love and forgiveness backwards and inside out and pretend with lots of peer pressure and (social) threats that this is healthy. Forget about the moon ; I just had lunch. Wanna know what I didn't do? I didn't bake bread or catch the mackerel I had on my toast. Not even that bread was made with just one person's idea. I mentioned the bible and imagine that that god exists and what that did to our food supply, to have only one mind on the job. It's a hell of a subtle way to control population growth, I'll tell you that much. We wouldn't consider that ethical though - we are not nazi Germany where we force evolution by genocidal selection pressures. I live in modern Germany, where we have affordable health care for everyone without exception and plenty of food, all thanks to multiple people coming up with multiple ideas together. And computers and CT-scanners, and all that sci fi jazz we consider as normal as clean water :) It's not just that no human could get to the moon by themselves, we would have no reason to either. We need each other for basically everything, to grow faster, but also to have a reason to grow, and to value growth. Just look at societies that don't value the input of entire groups of people and compare their technological progress to ours. Sure, many of them are oil states who can just buy it from us, but when was the last time a member of ISIS won a Nobel prize? China has many scarce resources and figured that that was enough and now they're buying chip making machines from countries with much more free flow of information. China and Russia and islamic countries are lagging behind and it's only going to get worse. Sometimes it really matters more how you use your (human) resources than the size of those resources. Overwhelming with numbers is only one strategy and a very limited one. It's not just individuals that benefit from cooperation, groups benefit the same way. Being self sustaining isn't a strength, but a weakness, and a deadly one.
@@stylis666 I'm afraid that I fall into the category of agnostic defending religion. Besides supplying a framework that usually precludes murder and theft religion is a collection of people that support the tried and true. Why is this good? When the next new thing that comes along which attracts the sheep to their doom this collective will tend to mitigate those results. Not an argument just an observation.
@@stylis666 Thank you for taking the time to write this thoughtful prose .
Ants going in circles until they die is probably the best expression of what I consider humans to constantly do that I've ever seen in my life.
Excellent discussion on information transfer .
Knowledgeable Video and very well put together. Respect
Sabine, just a sincere thanks for your amazing science news coverage and insightful analysis. It’s some of the best out there. Please, consider putting up the audio track for these videos in a podcast. I would bet that I’m not the only one that enjoys your content through listening only, and KZhead is just the worst platform for this.
You make such great videos. I love your humor and your delivery.
I had a friend who had fun walking the woods with hunters (carying loaded guns). He would suddenly point at nothing and watch them immediately fire in that direction. This was very repeatable.
Your friend needs to get a life.
Those are the idiots you don't hunt with, which is most...
Is it because the case is urgent and important so DO it as in the video?
For me this has shed some light on recent politics (COVID, war).
Great! More of this please it would help our understanding without being caught in the trap of collective stupidity. So well done Ms.Hossenfelder.
Ancient people living under Kings/Dictators used them as a template for God & TODAY's best of minds blindly follow these ideas Praying to long dead kings/Dictators Putin is the top God in the 21st century!
Oh my gosh! Love this woman. Never miss a video. My wife asks me why I’m laughing so much and I struggle to explain….
Thanks! I just discovered your Channel and have become obsessed with your videos!
What people miss about the toilet paper is that people are very complex and there is a lot of intuition involved, our conscious is not aware of the exact nature of intuition only the resulting answer in the form of a feeling. I think people instinctually realized how important Hygiene is during a pandemic, and secured the most needed resource at the time which was not necessarily food and water but personal hygiene.
Useful information not widely known. Thanks for sharing. Organization Behavioral Science was my favorite class in the MBA program.
"Ask the Audience" on the Millionaire show has skewed results because that was often the first lifeline used, meaning it was used on "easier" questions that more people would be likely to get right.
Wow! Such an important message so beautifully delivered!
Nice video. Food for thought. Thanks for giving clarity!
An additional problem is when false information is added into the system on purpose, normally for political or commercial reasons.
"Trust the science." "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." "Candied 'cereals' made by massive corporations are more healthy than eggs and dairy." Okay, the last was not word-for-word, but that's basically what they are claiming now. 🙄
@@veganconservative1109 The problem with eggs & dairy is that assumptions about their content of ''bad'' nutrients was based on bad science of the 20th century magnified by ''food police'' and health gurus who applied ''laws'' without themselves being aware of the fact that even medical opinions were based on bad science. The bad reputation of saturated fatty acids was at least partially based on the fact that unsaturated fatty acids are essential, ie necessary but not produced by the body. It is now known that an excess of unsaturated fatty acids, eg from many common seed oils used as a replacement for animal fats is actually WORSE for the body's biochemistry & health than an excess of saturated fat. This knowledge has yet to make its way into the mainstream because there are vast profits dependent upon the continuation of seed oil manufacture and usage.
I follow A LOT of KZhead channels and this one is easily one of my top 10 favorites. Sabine has a great sense of humor. 🙏😂🍻
What are your top 10 channels?
UV: "Sabine has a great sense of humor." How can this be??? Everybody knows that Germans have no sense of humor!
Advice I've long given to people when working with boys and young men: "The average IQ of a group of boys goes down with every boy you add to the group." 1 or 2 boys unsupervised are not as likely to do something stupid. A group of 5 boys are almost guaranteed to do something stupid if left unsupervised for very long. Grown men are not immune to this phenomenon - they're just better at not getting caught.
They do lie and then they know how to hide. Brilliant I concour , Amen to your comment.. 🍷😈👍😆
But how come we see this behaviour in boys and young men in such a pronounced way? I'm thinking that in order for this behaviour to make sense, they're either consciously or unconsciously trading off their intelligence/impulse control etc for something else that they either see or find more valuable. I've always had this hypothesis that it's the approval of other men, but that's just one idea. Is it that they feel safe to indulge in that part of themselves when there's guys around? Like they conduct themselves pretty well all day but regress into that young recklessness when they feel they've gotten permission? D'you have any other thoughts or observations on this? And boys/men out there - d'you want to weigh in on your reasons why?
@@akinyiomer4589 As someone who played every Sport but was outsider and had few friends such that there was really never more then 3 of us hanging out. There are two sides of this. The first is Social Acceptance. The second is Trolls/Pranksters. My small group of friends just loved to troll. Like one time I figured out how to get into the School District Account List. Figured out you can shift select 1000 people at a time and send everyone a message. I got suspended for a month for that. Another time we stole like 50 vibrators from a store and turned them on and put them everywhere around the school. Another time guys on the Baseball team were trying to get me to fight someone. I punched one them right in the face instead. As I had bullied quite a bit and was a very angry person due to my Father dying. So I just decked this kid pressuring me to fight. And that is one of the reasons I never ever would hang out with anyone of any of the sports teams. They always try to pull some macho nonsense. Baseball coach was pissed at first when I told exactly what happened he kinda chuckled. Instant Karma right don't try to bully kids into fighting for respect or whatever. If I had hung out with the Sports kids. And not the Troll/Stoner/Skater/Video Gamer kids. I probably would have done more Hazing type nonsense. Instead I was bullied and an outsider for a large part of my life. And became very angry and just never took crap from anyone. If I was accepted into Social Circles more readily I probably would have went along with whatever nonsense. That is also another key thing. Acceptance. Guys will do many thing to feel accepted. I was over that by age of 14. Luckily that is when I found my one true friend. If a young guy doesn't have a best friend that is a very bad thing. Every man needs one true best friend.
Sometimes we gotta have a little bit of fun. A good mix between playing stupid/ trolling and having deep convos is what makes my friendships great. Just because a group of people talks bullshit doesnt actually mean that they think what they say is right xD
Adult males have rights. Thats why its wasier for them to get away with it
That is how holisitc groups/ systems has been born, I guess. Important and good content with Sabine Hossenfelder as usual.
thankyou for the distinction between herd behaviour and information cascades. excellent topic overall
People preoccupied with other people's stupidity are often pretty stupid in their own way. Always be wary of someone telling you: *I* will tell what's stupid and what's not
Huge Thank You for this explanation. I want to share an, in my mind a totally inexplicable experience. I am in the Board of Directors for a volunteer fire department. The station Chief, quite a dominant voice, who demeaned anyone that disagreed, got it in his mind that we needed a new fire engine. The station Chief invited a fire engine manufacturer to bring a fire engine, that was available for sale, to our station for review. Noteworthy points: 1. The fire engine was taller than our bay doors. Which means that it would not fit into our firehouse 2. The cost was approx $600K. We had nowhere near $600K in all of our accounts. Our Treasurer said, without discussing with any banks, that we can get a loan. 3. The engine needed several expensive modifications to meet our requirements. I wrote an email to the Board of Directors pointing out these issues, and advising them to vote no on the purchase. Vote result was 1 no (me), 10 yes!!! Fortunately, the County Fire Chief, highest authority, got word of this and prohibited the purchase of a fire engine that would not fit into the firehouse! Collective stupidity is alive and well.
Keep sending More Mis ! I do enjoy your videos . They very very educational.
Great video and very relevant for the times. It's precisely human decision making that is under attack by malicious actors these days and a challenge for all people is to ward themselves against it. Being aware of some of the pitfalls and mechanism is a great start. Of course, there is a lot more at play when it comes to human decision making but that lies more in the realm of psychology. Cognitive bias, heuristic reasoning, identity based thinking and susceptibility to authority are all mechanisms that can determine decision making.
Around 2007, when the "smart phone" first came out, I saw exactly this problem coming. Then I recall in the 1970s, there were numerous articles where people were concerned about networked computers becoming part of our daily lives - they didn't have the words then to quite explain their concern (re: the extent of information bias that it would eventually cause). I suppose in a generation prior to that, television may have been viewed in a similar way. It's often hard to tell these days when someone has a genuine opinion based on life experience or are just echoing something they heard.
Top content, as always! 🤘🏽
Another excellent video essay. thank you.
Fascinating indeed! Thanks, Sabine! 😃 What I always tell friends is that you can read whatever you want without agreeing necessary. We need skepticism! Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I KNOW another Sabine that is just as SHARP as this one in her field :) Maybe Lisicky ?
I love your videos so much
Your videos are a joy to watch ❤
Love watching since I discovered Sabine's channel.
What a great video. Very insightful and thorough. Thank you Sabine.
Like a laxative for the brain.
Sabine is great, her videos are great, and I love the scripts on her videos. For instance, 1:28 on this one: ``You talk. A cheese cracker doesn't. Of if it does, maybe cut back on those THC gummies." Comedy gold. : )
You have to wait and pay attention to get them it's beautiful. She must be a really good teacher.
Sabine, you're awesome! Never change !
The level of sarcasm in these videos is just so lovely. The German wit is so very sharp.
I have had this idea of collective stupidity my whole life. Since I was a child in elementary school, all my classmates were spending all their lunch money on Pokemon trading cards (except me, since it's pointless), meanwhile my catholic nun teachers were claiming Pokemons were demonic/satanic cartoons. It's as if I have been surrounded by idiots my whole life. And then they look at me and say I am simply too negative, while in my head I am just thinking, "Wow, I really am surrounded by idiots...".
You just sound like a jerk. Let people enjoy things.
Same for me. I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness. Even the name of the organization was idiotic. I had my WTF moment at 18 and never went back. In the following years I would occasionally be reacquainted with “wise elders” at family events. I’m amazed how they would invariably expose their ignorance and stupidity in the space of a short conversation.
Have you seen the price of those pokemon cards now? Not sure they were the stupid ones 😂
@@ravermunky1 very low? Collectible cards are valuable only if unused, or used very little. Kids don't tend to store their cards well.
Remember if you consider everyone an idiot then your the biggest idiot of that group. I learned this when I was young. I used to think I was surrounded by idiots too until I went wait a minute perhaps I'm the idiot and I'm missing something. Unfortunately it took me a long time to figure out what I was missing.