Ep. 226 | AR-15’s - Build vs. Buy and In-Between
2022 ж. 13 Нау.
177 204 Рет қаралды
Build or Buy an AR-15 off the rack? That is the question. What’s better? What’s more cost-efficient? What route will make your AR the one that’s right for you? What are the pros and cons as it relates to function? Ok, that’s a whole lot of questions. Luckily, Mark and Jim have Vortex’s own Liam Ward to run us through this topic. Tune in for a mag-dump of AR incite.
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Buyer beware: these things multiply like rabbits. You start by building a long range upper for your factory lower, then you decide your upper needs a built lower, then you have 2 rifles. Then you need an SBR. Three rifles. The addiction never stops
Sounds like my 22lr collection. I'm up to 6 and building a custom 10-22 off a Kidd receiver which is 7.
Wow, this just caught me at the “need a built lower “ phase since I just picked up a solid high quality upper 😂
sounds like the time i wanted an SBR it needed to be chambered in .300blk
Found a detent the other day. Now I have to build a whole new lower.
Started with 2.. Then it doubled. Then that doubled. Then that doubled again. And it keeps doubling.. somehow..
I built my first AR, and it works like a charm. It was built back when KZhead could answer any issues that arose (none did). It worked so well, I built another!!!
Yall need to do a full length podcast on AR calibers; benefits and drawbacks, applications, ect; from either a hunting side, or hunting and other applications. 223, 300Blk, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC, 6.8 SPC, 350 Leg, 450 BM, 458 Socom, 500 Beowulf, 224 Valk, ect. I would think 450 BM would be a good short range Elk round, ect.
I was in the process of looking into doing the hybrid method (as you called it), and came across a buy I couldn't pass up of a factory build. I was talking with my neighbor about building the lower, and he said he would sell me his Armalite in .223 Wylde for $350. Never even been fired. He was going through a divorce and needed the money. So now I have a true AR-15. Couldn't be happier.
Don't shoot 556 from it
I'm a half & half right now. I built my lower and bought my upper. Even with receivers of two different manufacturers, the tolerances and fit are as tight as if they were machined together. It's now on duty as a patrol rifle.
This is the way!
I just bought a completed Aero Precision M4AE1 upper; well no BCG, I bought a separate BCG and charging handle and was considering building the lower. Maybe I'd get a stripped Aero lower and then put higher end parts in it. Sort of make it a "sleeper" build. 😁
My first was an m&P Sport 2, followed by a BCA. I've since built 4 and working on a few more. It's truly addicting once you become ok with the concept of different tools for different scenarios. For some reason most of my builds now cost about $1200+ 😁😬🙂
I just turned 21 I just bought a lower receiver
I have absolutely no background in guns other than video games, never even held more than an airsoft gun but with everything happening these days I felt it was time to finally get one and learn. I'm very happy that I built my ar15 (psa upper kit and complete lower receiver). I made plenty of mistakes but ultimately I ended up breaking it down and building it back several times and in doing that I learned way more about how it works internally than I could have watching videos or reading material. As far as tools, just needed torx screwdrivers, a flat head screwdriver, and a pair of pliers (damn detents)
I’ve bought rifles that I can’t build (non ARs) but I’ve built all the ARs I have from stripped everything to complete uppers, building is always more fun for me, plus when you add a 3D printer to the mix it allows you to get even more custom with your build👍🏾
I build most of my right now, mostly because I enjoy tinkering and learning how stuff works as well as I've learned what I like (for the most part) as well as the satisfaction of knowing I built it and can make sure it's not going to spontaneously disassemble in my hands. But for most new people unless you have someone to show you or to double check your work buying at least the upper isn't a bad idea.
Aero Precision upper and lower, Wilson Combat 24 inch super sniper in 260 Remington, 2.5 lb trigger, amazing shooter, 125 gr partition.
Sounds sweet. I kinda have wanted an AR in .243 Win since I first shot the caliber.
The big thing for a new builder is realizing the importance of quality gunsmithing tools. You can get by without a roll pin punch but if you’re installing barrels without a receiver rod you’re gonna end up clocking a barrel eventually, if you don’t properly stake you castle nut it might start walking off, if you don’t properly torque your muzzle device you might ruin your new can, etc.
I built my first one with minimal tools. Once I enjoyed it so much, I brought vices, reaction rods, the correct wrenches, punches, etc. Might as well invest in the right tools if you know you will be building more.
@vettelover2009 I'll take your word for it. My first builds were without the reaction rod. You're right, it can be done without one. I don't use it always but it's still useful. I'm a relative newbie to this though ..
I started with full upper and lower from Aero Precision then branched out from there. Now I have 556, 300blk, 9mm, and 22lr all with the same M4E1, Aero Precision standard. My barrel, bolts, adj gas, and buffer assembly vary based upon the gun. But i added Omega 36m and Omega 300 suppressors to the mix, prism reticles, and even lasers for close combat.
I’ve built 4. Bought 1 fully completed. I still have extra parts that can turn into another one or two. I’m working on a 5th one right now. This is a ultimate build that will carry my Acog.
Just found this video. I started with 3 factory rifles and a Frankenstein build someone else did. I learned how to tear down and rebuild those, bought a bunch of tools, and I am now on my 17th build. I can attest that a small spare part will turn into a complete gun.
missed the first minute or so so returning and hearing the discussion on "how do you think a burrito is made? with a machine? 😂" 💀
To me the heart is the barrel/gas length and buffer weight. I wish you would have gone through some basic builds. Like: a 16" with a can and carbine gas needs "X" buffer weight. Great show. thanks
yeah without the gas port size that information would be borderline useless.
Boys were gonna need a 35 remington cartridge talk
We hear ya! We'll add it to our list and see what we can make happen!
@Vortex Nation Podcast looking forward to it! I know Mark is a big 30-30 hater and his favorite line is "bigger is better" so he might actually like this one 😅
“Sees one spring, and thinks oh that could be a gun”. Glad it’s not just me...
I've purchased the tools to build over the last couple years. I just used a vise on my dresser to hold the action rod while I built an aero precision 300blk with BA Hanson Barrel. I like the challenge. I'm in a jeep Cherokee right now with a 76" height frameless shower enclosure 😂
definitely building my first, it'll probably take a year or so to finish, but honestly I've learned so much of the build process over the last year and built up so much excitement towards this build that I don't see myself going the buy route.
The only reason it takes a year is buying the parts one payday or a month's saving at a time. Easiest way to buy ARs on a budget!
I didn’t have room for a work bench where I used to live so I grabbed a solid wood stool my neighbor set out to the curb & mounted my reloading press on one side & my vice to the other. One concrete block on the bottom to weigh it down & I was in business 😆. I still use it today because it’s convenient & mobile.
I'm a gunsmith who has been to colt armorer school in the 90s, was an armorer from 1992-2013 and went to school to become an actual gunsmith. I have 2 years as a machinist journeyman. I interned at a shop for 2 years. I have built M16 family weapons for SWAT, actual SEALs when I worked at SOCOM, Rangers at Ft Lewis and MP-SRT teams at Ft McClellan. Been to DM school, graduated that in 2009. I can outbuild any factory but my builds are not cheap. I build a few here and there and shoot them and then sell off the ones I get bored of. So yes, a factory can be beaten in both accuracy and in reliability.
Barrels are definitely the heart and purpose of the weapon. I like my barrels like I like my women; short (12.5), medium thickness, black, 30 (caliber), and loud!
Dang
Yea, he got a type
I got my first AR while I was in college so it was an absolute budget gun. I got a complete upper from Palmetto and pieced together my lower by using friends leftover parts and ordering the ones that I couldn’t pull out of someone’s junk drawer😂I paid around $350 for the whole thing, I’ve put several thousand rounds through it and not a single malfunction. I’ve since gotten nicer guns and notice an obvious quality difference but I still haven’t changed a single thing from when I finished it and never will because of the sentimental value. It also makes me laugh when I think about myself sitting at my university housing desk using a nail as a roll pin punch to pound in the bolt catch pin😂
With over 35 yrs Gun experience with 15yrs being heavy in the AR15 builders community the one thing I've found to be very advantages if your doing a complete build start with a stripped upper lower set of the same manufacturer. Tolerances are engineered into the set for positive lock up. Lol... make sure to buy a couple oops kits. I promise you will need them and the spare parts are nice to have. Take your time and have fun with your build.
New to AR...was going to build one from scratch. But yall brought up a good point. How am I going to know what is good and what I want if I never fired one? So I am going to buy a cheap one, play with it to see what I like and don't like....then go to building one. Thanks for the tips.
Yep. That's what I did. I'm still happy with my budget buys. All of my builds have been more expensive significantly. I finally have enough spare parts to build me a budget one though🙂
I’ve got some that I’ve built to be DMR’s and I love shooting them. Here in 2023 I’m enjoying some great deals from PSA on basic M-4 style AR’s, they’re affordable, reliable and decently accurate. Being in the $450-$500 range they’re worth buying a few just to have them. My grandchildren are getting older and papa gets to take them to the range and teach them how to shoot.
I have typically built my own lower so I can get it exactly how I like and get a factor upper. Part of my mods is that I have a cant on my butt stock due to a shoulder injury. I had talked to several manufacturers prior and they mentioned building the lower would be better for me.
On the AR-180, it was originally designed around a stamped-steel receiver, to be a cheaper to manufacture version of the M-16. Buffer-spring inside the handguard above the barrel was supposed to be cheaper to manufacture tooling from scratch, it allowed a folding stock so was optioned with a folding stock, but the reason AR-15 had a buffer-tube was to keep the sights as low to the barrel center as possible, less distance offset & soldiers face is exposed a bit less ftw. The original AR-180 looks unique but the stamped steel reciever is not as sexy as an AR-15, AR-180 design was bought by British Stirling who built a bunch of rifles intended for the British military, who then decided to go bullpup, and the AR-180 bolt, carrier & short-stroke piston were used for the British SA-80 bullpup. Meanwhile the 0s of 000s of AR-180 rifles manufactured by Stirling for the military found their way to the IRA & was simply known as the "Armalite" & became so iconic for how small a form factor the folding stock rifle was, they became the symbol of the IRA in songs like "My Little Armalite" & "Snipers Promise" or the promise to effect change through "the ballot box & the Armalite" I do love these modernized AR-180 reproductions using a machined aluminum reciever. I believe there's been a bunch of new AR-180 makers in Canada because the AR-15 is banned by design name but the AR-180 is not so the gun-sellers switched to AR-180 variants.
Gonna throw this out there...... I've bought AR's, and I've also built and worked on quite a few. At this point in time, I honestly feel like if you're looking for a "cost-savingsly" (in your words lol) AR, and you know what you're doing, you can end up with a gun that may function better than what a lot of the budget friendly and mid-range manufacturers are putting out. Some of these companies are focused so much on pumping out numbers to keep up with current demand that they've sacrificed quality control. I've been at my current shop for almost 6 years, and I've never sent so many new or almost new firearms back for warranty service in any other year prior to this. Probably the biggest example of this has been Springfield. From Saints to M1A's to the brand new Hellion, they've really let their QC go recently. Having a factory warranty is great, except now you have a gun out of your possession for weeks to even months, and that's especially frustrating to a customer who literally just bought a brand new gun that has a problem. For example, I myself just recently purchased a brand new M1A SOCOM, and the safety didn't function. The gun would still fire with the safety on. That really puts a damper on the excitement of getting a new toy, let alone how it feels to someone who just purchased their first firearm and was relying on that as a defensive weapon, and doesn't have a backup while it's being repaired. Once in a while, things happen, but it's been so common lately that it's become unacceptable and inexcusable.
Dont forget you also need a super basic, cheap, unmolested AR with front A2 sight. Just a red dot and rear flip up. Damn they are light and simple feels good!
My first ar is an ar10 in 308. Took me 3-4 outtings to get it to run reliably but the things it taught me are so valuable. I restarted my firearm journey in 2019 and went from 0 to 9 firearms in 2 years. Two ar's (300blk and 308), ar12 magfed shotgun, 3 pistols, a break action 410 and a ruger 10/22. I also build an ar9 pistol but sold it because I'm planning on building a 450 bushmaster soon.
Might just do another 300blk seeing as how the first now belongs to my wife. I also need a cva scout in 450 bushmaster for primitive hunting season.
Podcast on all of the ar15 and ar10 comparable cartrages would be cool.
Watching this years later, I’ve bought built and all around AR’s. I build now only, always with a Vortex optic.
I've built over 7 Noveske pistols and riffles and must say they've all run just as well as my Factory built Noveske's. Even my Radian lower DD upper builds run like sewing machines.
Can you guys do a video on building a bolt action rifle for hunting and the differences in building a bolt action for competition?
I started with buying complete uppers and building lowers. I have now dove head first into building from the ground up
LOVE THIS
I think that putting a rifle together is a great experience. You aren't really "building" it, but if you buy an upper complete with bolt carrier group, say a BCM 20 inch government upper with bolt carrier group. Then the stuff that is important is already built to spec. You can now buy a lower parts kit, put the buffer tube in, get A2 hand guards and an A2 buttstock from Numrich, and get any stripped lower you want and still have the experience of putting that all together.. maybe even finding an M5 RAS somewhere, perhaps a carry handle, or an ACOG.... and you get a great rifle that is put together correctly, with the correct specs and torque, because BCM did all of that, while you can still enjoy putting everything onto the lower receiver... it's almost like a factory gun, but more fun!
I know someone who’ve over torqued a barrel but it was the flash hider so tight I tried to remove it and it broke the reciver it was that tight. Well makes sense cuz they were fudds
Lim is a good guest to have
I have built all my AR's. Only semiautomatic rifle I have that I didn't build is my Rifle Dynamics AK.
I bought my first, had the next two built, now I do the building myself. Thanks for the nod to the SuperSonics; it’ll be nice to follow the NBA again, now that I’ll have a team in Seattle again.
As soon as i got interested in AR's I didn't F around.. i got a 5-D tactical 10&15 jig and i bought a craftsman router.. 7 rifles later for me and several for friends and family i feel iv done a small part to uphold the 2nd..
Not going to lie, if you are only assembling a lower and slapping an upper on it, all of the roll pins can be installed using a vice grip with tape over the jaws. Never used a roll pin punch to do the majority of the work putting the pins in, only to set them to the correct depth after 99% was done via vice grip. Don't need a receiver block for that either and less risk overall.
I've built over 20 AR15s over the years because I've literally never been able to afford one. I am just as happy buying them piece by piece one piece a week.
I have BRN-180 and it runs great. It is my designated 223 rifle
I don’t build, but my favorite gun store is owned by a vet. He was an armorer in the military, and he does good work.
I bought mine a few years ago but I am building one for a friend currently and I plan on building another upper for mine
Getting into the upper swap out on a lower. Can you take a longer upper on a “pistol” lower and be ok or is it still an issue the same as a shorter upper on a rifle lower?
I can confirm you can put one together in a kitchen table haha and I'm no master at it. I also was forced to learn allot about the rifle to make it run properly haha. I'm glad I've started building and really now the function of the rules now more then ever. That being said my first 5 AR's were factory rifles and started my passion and confidence in wanting to build.
I have bought several AR'S, although I am in the process of building my first 2 AR'S. I plan on building a 6.5 Grendel rifle & a 350 Legend rifle. I want the 6.5 Grendel for fun mostly. I am considering using the 350 Legend as a deer hunting rifle most likely.
Hey Liam you should check out Thoroughbred Armament. They have a bunch of clone correct stuff on their website. The guy who runs it assembles everything building out correct MK18s and M4 block IIs and a bunch of other stuff.
i built the first three from stripped receivers , but now I am buying a DDm4 v7 i see the merits of both schools of thought. that being said everyone should build at least one from the bottom up. imho
You absolutely don't need a $1000 in tools to build an AR. One tool that is a bit expensive ($125) that id recommend is a Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rod. Especially if you're taking a barrel off of a gun that's been shot a lot or over torqued. But besides that, you can do it all with, an armorer's wrench, a set of punches, a razor blade, and a few Allen keys/Torx bits. A few companies make parts that require proprietary tools like Geissele's barrel nut wrench. But most stuff is just standard.
Here I am over here as a first-timer hobbling parts/accessories together in my boxers, sitting on a step stool in my living room, with my AR in my lap 😂
One lower + three uppers, super versatile and fun. Aero Precision lower, quality drop-in trigger, ambi controls, all my choice. Add an AP upper built to my desire. Add a side charging upper built to my desires. Add a Unitah bolt action upper (an out of box tack driver at 300 yards). In the end, a suit of options. All fun to shot. p.s. if you choose the built it yourself. Buy GOOD tools.
My first ar is a piston driven .308 factory built which I use for deer and pig hunting for a very long time and after a multitude of times cleaning it and putting it back together as well as replacing parts I’m now leaning more towards building one in .223 Wilde. My question is should I start with an adjustable gas system instead of a non adjustable one? This is my only dilemma. What do you guys think?
Like to see one done on the noreen 30/06
I did not notice Liam’s hair until the 44 min mark. Weird comment, but it kinda shocked me.🤣
Build. Gonna start another one in the next couple weeks.
This video made me second guess if I torqued my barrel nut correctly 😂
Building your own AR is the easiest wat to aquire an AR on a budget. You buy parts one payday at a time or a months saving at a time. In my opinion, barrel type, length, brand, contour, material are very important, especially when you add things on to make it heavier. CALIBER, Optics, trigger, shroud length, flash hider, compensator are all important things to consider because if you are going to shoot and enjoy it. The stock and sights are also important to consider no matter who you are and how you intend to shoot it. By the way Aero is a fantastic company considering they own Ballistic Advantage Barrels and their own line of compensators.
Unless your building a DMR there's really no point in worrying about building the upper. Most all manufacturers build sub moa uppers with good ammo
True , but with all rifles you should take it apart and test the torque on main contact points, if you don’t get into building somewhat less likely to touch the threads
p.s. component choices are THE fun and important feature of BYOD, Build Your Own Device. In business we call it "due diligence" i.e. do your research and accept and learn from results.
If you aren’t buying a complete rifle, I was told to buy an upper and lower from the same manufacturer. I originally bought a BCM upper and Spike’s lower with a Spike’s BCG. Now both the lower and BCG are BCM, which is what I should have done from day one. My need for uniformity and obsession with details eventually overrode the cool factor of piecing together a rifle. Putting aside the debate over tolerances, the rifle just looks better when everything is from the same company. If I could go back, I would have just bought a complete rifle from BCM, which is what I ended up with.
The best thing about building is learning where the extra $ matters and where it doesn't, a 900$ gun with a 300$ handguard and a 150$ stock won't beat a gun with a 40$ handguard a 15$ stock and the rest of the money in the barrel and trigger
For me at least, I not only enjoy building each gun. But I find the customization I can do from the ground up is far closer to what I'm looking for. Sure I could buy an Aero Precision rifle and add all I want, but starting with a reciever set and building it up from there lets me put whatever I want on it from the start.
This would make a great hoodie...a picture of an AR detent spring with a caption, "This could be a gun..." 😂 ARs can be like Lays potato chips...🙄 I'm sure I'm the only person that ended up with spare springs, detents, screws, et al 🙄
I know how to build them so I can't bring myself to buy one. My very first AR was one that I built. I still own it and still shoot it it is never going to leave my safe.
See I'm backwards dude. Fulltime mechanic so I have tools from generations before me. I've always built them well and because of this I can't bring myself to pay for a factory. But I've been loosing sleep over the DD mk12 while I own 3 that I've built myself with white oak barrels that will most likely leave the DD sitting still
Building my first AR sent me down the path of becoming a gunsmith. Looking to focus n precision bolt guns. I started with stripped lower and a complete upper.
I have a couple that need optics, ya'll know where I can pick up a good deal on some?
I learned today that Rick is a smell my finger kinda guy 🤣
My 1st AR15 was a reputable factory rifle. Thereafter, I’ve been building my own ARs and I think that’s the only way I would continue doing ARs.
Build it!!!! it gives you a sense of pride when you DIY!!!!
I normally use loctite 620 to bed the barrel with 45ftlbs to 50ftlbs of torque
I bought my first rifle. Built my second and third. Never again will I buy lol. Building is a great experience and it’s built how I want it.
I think for me I want to get an AR first, then I’ll look into building my own but I just really need to figure out the mechanics of it all and how it functions best for me.
Building is the best way to learn the mechanics honestly you assemble every moving part and pay attention to it's tolerances
When building full rifles or buying uppers. Weight for HOLIDAY SALES. You can save over $100 easy. Then use that to by optics or ammo.
Build....EVERYTHING. no purchased complete uppers over here
Get a Brownell's Paper Catalogue if you are going to shoot. Period. Great reference.
BRO U DO NOT NEED A VICE OR A WORKBENCH LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO 1K IN TOOLS MY ASSSS
I thought the same. Now I have a work bench because my RCBS pro 2000 needs a place and a vice is a useful tool. For tools I may have a few hundred dollars in my tools. Various receiver blocks, punches, roll pin starter punches, AR combo wrench, 1/2" torque wrench, in/lb torque wrench, takedown pin installation tool (best $6 I have spent), brass/plastic hammer, various thread lock, antisieze, solvents, levels, digital calipers. Outside of a few specialty tools everything else is available from Lowes or Home Depot for less than buying from Brownells, Midway, etc.
My counter argument to you should buy your first and not build it, I've only built ARs and have no off the shelf rifles, in my opinion knowing the inner workings of the system from the beginning is super helpful should anything come up in the future.
31:50 I got enough parts to build 3 more rifles 🤷🏽♂️😂
Built my 1st one I'm on my 3rd build but also bought my first factory one to see the difference
I mean assembled everything on first time
I built my first ar. Have a few more im builting now. Still don't own a factory ar.
Build lowers (80% lower) and buy uppers, best of both worlds, no serial and CAN be cheaper. Personally bought an 80 lower and bought a BCM SS410 16" upper with all their parts (BCM BCG,charging handle, Aero Precision PRO BCG is better)
Everyone should have to build one so they know how they really work and how to really maintain and clean them as well. Except tringers, fuck that, just buy those.
Building can always be good if you don't want or can't drop the money on a fully built gun. You can always buy parts here and there and spread out the cost. You should always have a factory gun tho
Builder... Drill and pin fo life!
"Provided we don't have any more over reach, that'll remain a pistol" Famous last words in 2023
I have a gun vise set up on the desk in my bedroom
I’m curious. Anyone know which manufacturer Liam worked for? I’m picturing the quality tier graphic with kac and lmt at the Gucci level, and Daniel defense, bcm, geissele at the high end/duty grade level. There are so many good manufacturers right now. Truly the golden age of ARs
DD
Probably BCM, vortex and bcm are both Wisconsin companies, and not too far from eachother.
Daniel Defense
I have bought 3 and built 3 so far and I will probably only build from now on. I feel like it’s cheaper and its not that hard. Outside of milling the 80% lower a monkey could do the rest I have sent a few springs and indents flying across the room tho 😂 still ain’t found them
Ball point pen spring = buffer detent spring. Fyi. Edit "I went through the paperwork to buy this lower....why didn't I buy two??!?'
2:00 going to say he worked for knights colt or DD
have a bunch of different guns that j loveee so much. They all so different and fun. Why do I want to have 20 ar.15s in my closett?
Am I the only one here that wants to see a burrito get "Rick rolled" now?!
I agree that someone’s first rifle should be bought complete but building is not as hard as you guys are making it out to be
It's not just ar's. I have been in multiple hobbies which have the same dynamic and this mentality spreads across most. Average, adequate, every day guy equipment is always looked down upon. And always will be, until the day when the respected people in the industry speak more about the acceptability
Oh yeah