How Tight were Medieval Scabbards?
I carry on looking at the quality of medieval knives and swords and the massive differences between what they found acceptable and what we find acceptable now. I love well fitting sheaths and scabbards, but have for a long time suspected you don't necessarily want them to fit tightly.
This film explains and demonstrates why loose may just be what is best.
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Films referred to
How to wear your dagger. • How to Wear YOUR Dagger
Medieval swords were (mostly) awful. • Medieval swords were (...
Tod makes junk • Tod Makes Junk - Was M...
Matt Easton from Schola Gladiatoria popped over to film another project out in late June and he asked if I wanted make a film about tight fitting sword scabbards - we have never discussed this at all and had basically the same opinion. Obviously I said I had basically covered the same ground in a recent film - it's an odd world, but I can assure you his film is also worth watching. • How TIGHT should SWORD...
I love how Tod could have just dunked the sword under water, but no, he dunked himself in at the same time. Does it make the experiment any more valid? Not really, but I can't help but admire the dedication.
When he reached "THAT depth" and commented on how cold the water was, I had sympathy retraction.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Visions of summer in the sea off the cornish coast sprang to mind. :) Hey no mini icebergs it must be summer right? :)
Lol, he brings new meaning to the concept of immersing one's self in one's research.
... it's like a 5 year old playing around... but doing experimental archeology. And loving every second of it 😊
@@WhiteDieselShed And the waters off Cornwall are warm when compared with everywhere else in the UK.
It actually makes a lot of sense for knives and swords to be made by multiple people in medieval times. If you are going to outfit an army, then instead of a single person makeing one entire sword maybe every two days, it would be faster for someone to be churning out blades all day while another person churns out handles and another scabbards, all to be assembled by another person elsewhere. It's kinda like an assembly line.
Isn't how things for military use are made even today? One company produce belts, an other holsters, an other bayonets ect
Absolutely! Way easier for someone to get good at making one thing quickly than to learn to do ten different things quickly. It's also the case that there were places that were hubs for certain kinds of goods, like Solingen for blades. It was common (not just in the medieval period) for blades to be made in one place, and then made into functional swords/knives elsewhere. So you could have one smith hammering out several blades in a day or two, and then after a few months those blades could be in four different countries fitted to guards and pommels that fit the regional tastes. To take that even further I can think of examples of African swords that Europeans stumbled across in the 1900's that had straight double edged blades (exactly like the stereotypical medieval european sword) fitted to locally made African guard, grip, and pommel. If I remember rightly those blades were actually made in parts of Germany in like the 1700's or 1800's (after Europeans had moved away from that style of blade) specifically for the African export market. Sorry for the essay lol.
And if it resembles modern day civilian and military contracting, the products are going to be made by the lowest bidder who meets the minimum specifications.
That’s one of the reasons armorers in Italy and Germany could crank out an entire harness in a couple of days.
It makes sense, if conditions for mass production are met. It's only worthwhile (or even possible) to break down production into lots of small steps each carried out by someone with a very narrow specialisation when you are able to: secure lots of capital to bring together enough people in the same workshop (or have a sufficiently mature market for a reliable supply chain up and down stream), and have access to a sufficiently large customer base so that there's enough demand for all your wares. Not all of those ingredients were present everywhere all the time. During the Roman Empire or in Renaissance Germany, sure. But I'd be surprised if that was true for, say, a Carolingian sword/armour smith who was only ever going to sell his wares to a minor local lord and his retinue.
Really appreciate how you don't romanticise old craftsmen but also show respect and understanding for the work they did, they were people just like us and they weren't stupid, they just had their own priorities and needs.
I spend a lot of time working in the bush (not just strolling, doing actual work), and I always have a big knife on my side (blade about 16"). When I watch those videos about how medieval people used to do stuff, a lot of it is still applicable for when you do actual physical labour in difficult contexts. Having your knife tightly bound to your hip is very annoying. It gets caught on everything, and then you get caught. If you let it hang loosely, it will get caught on stuff but will free itself as you move.
I didn't think of that... Yeah, walking in forests was more common back then...
@@Ranstone well forests were much more managed in the middle ages because they were constantly being used for all sorts of things.
I like a drop leg style bound above my knee, it keeps it tight to the thigh, doesn't get caught on shit, doesn't require me to baby sit or hold it like thongs do. and lets me move around without it poking me.
@@Dies1r4e That's what I was doing at first, but over time, I went back to a more loose attachment, and I'm better for it. It probably depends on the type of work you're doing.
Probably the kind of situation that retractable 'Wolverine' style blades would be amazing. 😁
You heard it here, boyos. If it is too tight when it gets wet, it becomes a two hand operation.
Figured that out in high school 😂
No you didn't
Fact of life
@@VinceW187 I sure did, i tried making knife sheaths and made more than a few way too grippy 😕
My grandfather before getting drafted he was advised by his war veteran father " never let your knife bloody in the scabbard and your revolver get wet in the holster" He found out why the hard way when he tried to remove his revolver from the holster and the gun was just refusing to unstuck He really got lucky, because the opponent just started uncontrollably laughing finding it very amusing and told him just to walk away from them 😏
And then everyone stood up and started clapping...
@@murmenaattori6 it was late 1949 the last days of the Greek civil war, those encounters was very common, soldiers on both sides was just to tired to keep killing each other And had develop a " Live and let live" mentality My grandfather was given a sniper rifle just to bring to his commanding officer game both to eat and sell That was his only time he found himself face to face with the rebels The rebel that told him to walk the other way was like a teenager or something and just trying to flee the country, he wouldn't had kill him if he didn't have to 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous I actually believe you know, sorry and thanks. Makes sense in a civil war I suppose.
@@murmenaattori6 no worries 😉
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Meh, not all of grandfathers war stories are always true. Still sounds like "And then everyone stood up and started clapping...'' to me.
Naval swords have had a little folding clip on them to retain the blade in the scabbard since the 1700s, even if it ends up upside down. Also means the scabbard can be relatively loose. Wonder if there were any such features in the mediaeval times?
thats makes so much sense
Peace loops. Hurswitc has proof of them in the Viking age. They are tied around the handle or slipped over the cross guard
Probably, but they just didn't survive the years and thus we don't know about them.
Its not medieval, but I have an Iranian shamshir circa 1600 with an original scabbard which is extremely tight - even accounting for shrinkage and warp over time, it is fitted VERY well despite the deep curve of the sword. Other swords I have are quite loosely fitted despite being "good" quality scabbards made specifically for that sword - such as one of my Kilic. It varies, quite a lot, even for the recent stuff.
Was the scabbard recently in the pool?
@@thcdreams654 Shockingly, no
Wonder if it has to do with the different environment of Iran. Dryer climate means less worry about the scabbard getting wet.
If I was on the medieval battlefield I reckon I’d know if the sword was a bit stiff in the scabbard especially if it’d been raining. I’d be checking it’s loose-ness right up to when the violence kicked off. But I bet the samurai were more concerned with the ‘quick draw ‘ speed what with their Iaido and their social rules. I was wondering if they had similar drawing protocol in renaissance Italy?
If there's a lot of variation the nice fit might be by accident.
I love these little bits of experimental archaeology - it's always interesting. Never giving us absolute answers, but always adding valuable data points! On this particular point, I can honestly imagine guys arguing about things like this in the pub. One walks in with his new dagger and starts showing off how tightly it fits in his new sheath; and his friend responds by going on about how, "after my da' came back from fighting those bastards over the border, he always said blah blahblah blah blahblahblah...."
Firstly - you just stole my line! I have just written a presentation the AvA2 crew is giving at the Chalke Valley History Festival this year where I say "talking about archery descends to little more than two bloke is a pub, both absolutely stating they are right. Clearly a mind reader. Secondly, my absolute hate is history docs saying "I know this and this so therefore this". Rarely should there ever be a therefore and I try to stick to that idea
@@tods_workshop Haha I've clearly learnt from the best! The more I learn the more I appreciate the subtleties, and that often, two sides of an argument can often be at least somewhat true. That's probably *one* of the biggest lessons I've taken from history to be honest, and for the most part, I have the likes of you, Matt Easton, Toby Capwell and probably Skallagrim to thank for that!
@@tods_workshop I think it shouldnt to lose why daggers and Swords are side arms if you running with a pole arm in youre hands you likely cant hold youre dagger or sword sheeth or scabard !
@@tods_workshop You can always go "therefore, my _hypothesis is_ blahblahblah, but without a time machine we simply cannot know for sure unless we find definitive evidence." But yeah, it's better to say "this is what we think was most likely the case" rather than "this is what we know for sure" unless we have, like, the diary of someone talking about it in minute and exacting detail.
BTW this is all just hypothesis based on how things usually seem to go: Tod's description of the cutler buying parts and assembling them to sell the whole piece makes a lot of sense for a reason I don't see people mentioning: if you don't have a factory where all this is done in-house, each craftsman needs to make his stuff and sell it for money. He can't hand everything over to a cutler and wait for the cutler to sell pieces and reimburse him for his crossguard or whatever. And no customer wants to buy all the pieces and then mangle things putting them together. So the cutler has to exist, and he has to have either a strong professional relationship with his suppliers or the money to buy all his materials outright. Or some combination. Which means not every one of the individual craftsmen could afford to BE the cutler; just because you can make sheaths doesn't mean you have the trusted connections and capital that the cutler does. And it also means customers can just come to one shop and buy the thing, which means all the component craftsmen can work out of their homes instead of having to maintain anything like a storefront or blanket full of their wares in a market area. That storefront is more expensive to maintain, and cuts into profits. It does mean that the cutler is presumably the more powerful and wealthier of the whole group. If a component craftsman wanted to raise his price, and his cutler didn't accept, he could try to find another cutler. But now he's on the lookout and competing with that cutler's current supplier on price, so he probably doesn't get the increase he's looking for anyway. And also just burned a bridge in a small community. Meanwhile the cutler is a harder-to-achieve position and there are more component craftsmen out there than cutlers, so he has his pick of them. He probably has multiple craftsmen in each category supplying him. So even if informally and in an unspoken way, he has more influence over their price to him than they do. But of course doesn't want to push that relationship too hard, because if they REALLY wanted to they could probably figure out a way to cut him out of the process by promoting one of their own and just working together on credit or as a partnership.
Exactly, it's just like going to someone like Track of the Wolf, and buying a Bowie knife kit. They send you the blade and all of the other bits to finish it. When you do that makes you, at that point, the cutler.
I think the importance of being able to retrieve any blade one-handed is often under-appreciated, if not completely overlooked... whether it's carried for self-defense or as a tool. I have a lot of knives (pocket and fixed blade) and the ones I carry are almost always ones I can pull out and start using with one hand. It's just frustrating having to put something down or stop what you're doing to fumble around with a folding knife that requires both hands or pull a blade from a sheath that's too tight...
For everyone musing on pre-soaking of leather scabbards, the leather is almost always pre-wetted during manufacture, simply because you need the leather to stretch a little as you stitch it so it has a tight fit over the wooden core. The tightening issues arent just about the leather on a scabbard, but rather how the wood core swells when wet and presses on the blade. So soaking a newly made scabbard again after its finished would probably be a bit redundant, since it wont keep the wood from swelling as humidity changes
The scabbards in this video dont have wooden cores
I never considered it before, but it makes sense that multiple craftsmen would be making the various components of swords and knives. It was a cottage industry much as was found throughout the world for literal ages. Also, bravo to Tod for sacrificing his personal comfort for research and for our entertainment. Thank you!
We had it here in Solingen as well until quite recently, about the1950s actually. Each part of the city had it's own industry and the knives were handed from one craftsmen to the others by their women who's job it usually was to get the knives around to the next cottage. That also is why we have a multitude of different words for people who did different thing on the knives, like Schlieper for the one who ground the knives, Reider for the one who mounted handles to the blades and so on.
@@trulsdirio That's really interesting. I looked up the English translations of those words and at first, they did not make sense, but thinking about them, yes, they do. Schlieper translates to slipper, and that is exactly what you would do to sharpen a blade. Slip a stone or file along the edge until it is sharp. Reider took me a second because in English it means riders. A handle rides the tang, though, so that makes sense too. Thank you! I love learning that sort of thing.
@@StutleyConstable tose are also really regional terms, what was called a Schlieper here would usually be a Schleifer in the rest of Germany for example. You probably won't find terms like Reider, Pließter (the one who polished blades) and so on even in a German dictionary.
@@StutleyConstable Yeah, Solingens native language, technically it is a language, is Limburgish. This language sits between Dutch and German. Thats why it is a bit closer to English than Standard German is to English.
You can actually see it perfectly in any modern factory. There are different machines making each part of an item and then other machines that assemble all the pieces together. We've just replaced humans with machines.
That is exactly one of the scenes i love from Gladiator ... Maximus is able to kill the Praetorian because he couldn't draw his sword due to frost sticking the blade to the scabbard. Genius.
There is this amazing thing called spell checker...
@@marcpeterson1092 There fixed it for you my little flower ... your eyes hurt ? Just tell me that you understood the message in both ways. English is not my first language.
@@marcpeterson1092 hmm, condescending.
Very interesting. Given that you prove the change and binding is so immediate and obvious, it would have to follow that ALL of the campaigning men would be well aware of the issue. They probably thought close fitting scabbards were a stupid idea that would last just as long as it didn't rain.
So, idea, what if medieval scabbards were made loose like that on purpose for WHEN they get wet so that they would fit properly when they do? What if you were expected to grab a sheath that kinda fit pretty good and were expected to water treat it so that it would then tighten up slightly and mold itself around the blade some? What if they pre water treated the scabbards before selling them so that it wouldn't get too tight?
Sword scabbards were wood cored with a leather wrap. Wood swells when it's wet, and leather shrinks after it's been wet and subsequently dries. So if the air is humid or it gets wet, the wood will absorb more moisture, and it will swell - this is what makes it tight. Once the wood dries though, wood fibers will release some of the moisture back into the air and it can shrink back down. Whereas, if it was purely a leather sheath, the leather will not return to it's original size.
@@WillyShakes I think (at least I have done it) its reasonably common practise to soak leather before you use it to wrap something (then stretch it around) and sew it up. Then when it dries its a tight fit. Once wet the timber and leather would both swell. When they dry out again the leather should still be a tight fit.
I know of at least one way of making knife sheaths that involves wetting the leather. Pukko knives have a sheath that goes up around the handle as well. Wood around the blade, then wrapped in leather that covers the wood and partly up where the handle will be. The leather is then wetted and moulded with the knife in the sheath.
I think that last few seconds shows that it was probably likely that swords and knives went through multiple sheaths/scabbards. You wouldn't want to carry that sword in that sheath, so get another one. Maybe on a knife it gets wet and tight and even your draw it, the leather is cut. Now you get a new one...
Brilliant video. I think we often forgot what using and wearing a sword or dagger day in and day out really means. For allot of us collectors in the modern world our pieces probably spend 99% of the time leaning against a wall or on a display stand.
Like any of those posh nobles amiright
@@ForestRaptor pretty sure posh nobles would have carried their swords when ever they go.
I think it bares mentioning that the maker and the user often live in vastly different climates in this global era, not to mention seasonal variation in humidity. I live in a hot dry climate, my buyer may live in the tropics or a cold snowy climate. I may make a scabbard in an Australia summer and two weeks later it's in a new York winter. Definitely want some Lee way in the fit.
Awesome stuff Tod! Well thought out and fun to watch.
Loved it. Great video and topic
Now that is very practical testing! Love it.
Brilliant as always Todd!
Always fascinating to see your experiments and hear your views on these topics! Thanks for sharing with us!
Good presentation, thanks mate 👍
I didnt even know i needed this video in my life. Loved it 😊
Excellent deduction once again. I look forward to whatever you decide to tackle next.
Another great video Tod!! Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up💙💛
Loved the 2 weeks later insight!
fascinating! thanks tod!
Great work Tod, thank you for the great craftsmanship and dialogue to us laymen. 👏
I will throw some counterarguments to the idea of loose scabbards, especially in case of daggers. So I do HEMA longsword sparring, almost always with a dagger. I've had a couple mounting systems during my years of HEMA, after a while I've started trying out historical options. Whenever I was using a loose scabbard and any kind of loose thong system I pretty often lost my dagger during the fight. The solution was usually to either use a more secure mounting system (like thongs looped over in front of the scabbard - this holds the dagger pretty securely, it creates a loop for a belt almost like on modern scabbards) or to use a tighter scabbard. So this could indicate that even historically they would do either loose scabbard or loose mounting, but not both - as much as I can take the argument that running or doing physical activities with a "fully loose" dagger isn't a problem, I can't believe anyone would ever stick to that kind of a carrying method after learning from experience that they are quite likely to loose a dagger during a fight. The other point I would make is that I've learned that people often try to take my own dagger and use it against me. When the scabbard is tight I can usually pull it out rather fast and easily if I do it the right way - pulling with a decisive upward motion. The correct angle is key here - in case of a tighter scabbard my opponents usually couldn't take my own dagger, because their pulling angle in any reasonable fighting scenario was limited, so they oculdn't execute the straight up motion that and an owner of a weapon can. Overall I would argue that tight dagger scabbards/sheaths were probably a thing, was it a majority? Im not going to make any assumptions here, but based on my fighting experience with a longsword and dagger I would rather have a tighter scabbard. Now there are two caveats here: - the dagger I use is a sparring blunt blade and it isn't balanced like a real dagger, its heavier toward the handle, this can impact how likely it is that the dagger falls out of a scabbard - I'm completely ignoring the moisture/wheather argument here which could play a bigger part in choosing the carry method than I think.
love the dedication level to accuracy you took by fording the river!
I love these videos! Really demystifies some of the finer points of that time period that are largely ignored
I really respect your empirical approach to history! Make no assumptions, do things that historical peoples did, learn from it. Wonderful stuff, thank you.
Another fascinating video 👍
Neat video. I do leatherwork. You did what is today known as wetforming. It's having a hard time drawing from the sheathe because the leather has molded to the fuller of the blade. Its narrowing angle toward the tip of the blade doesn't allow the blade to come out properly because the mold doesn't allow adequate space for it to do so. This causes the entire sheathe to need to expand when the blade is drawn, and leather isn't particularly stretchy. I surmise that leather sheathes were either well oiled, well waxed, or some combination thereof to prevent wet forming of leather sheathes and to repel water. An oiled sheathe would have been quite flexible, which may not have been the best treatment for sheathes if you wanted a fast draw, but it would keep the blade well oiled on a journey from point A to point B. I wager that beeswaxed sheathes were preferred because wax repels water and stiffens leather. Or, waxed on the outside and oiled on the inside would have been an excellent treatment method. That is, of course, considering that the leather received any treatment at all. I'm not an expert on medieval gear, so I'm telling you how I would treat a leather sheath if I were to make one with the goal of repelling water and fast draw.
I got taught leather working by a saddler, or well two because it was a couple that taught me, and one was focused on making saddles while the other on making the tac-wear (like bridles ect.). It was super interesting how while they officially have the same "work" they do really different things, and also taught differently. They did point out that while they would prefer to work with a local blacksmith for the metal fittings, it wasn't really profitable in current day and age for them.
Very well done. I make my own scabbards & i tend to like them pressure fit so they dont fall out but i did run into this problem. It doesnt rain here much but when it does or if I get wet it does cause them to bind. So i discovered it is helpful to rig something to tje scabbard for your thumb to push on.
"For the sake of science ..." Thank you, Sir, for your noble sacrifice and thank you for your excellent educational presentations. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorites.
Thank you , Tod . 🐺
Frankly i could listen to you talk historical medieval maybes all day. You have a nice way of posing your opinions.
This man asks the best questions and provides top answers, great video.
Tod: sir, A looser fitting scabbard is the way to go. But a proper footbridge wight work too. Enjoyed the video thanks. I learn much from all your videos. Keep them coming. Thanks!
Tod, you're an actual damn treasure. I'm making a roleplaying system as a passion project and the perspective you bring and tests you do have made me consider aspects I couldn't have thought of otherwise.
Hi Tod, could you make a video on how to care for dagger sheaths? I think it would be interesting. Good video. Thank you
Great content as always Tod, I use a bit of Bees Wax on the first inch of the inside of my own personal bush crafting Knife sheaths so it holds the blade a bit but is still an easy draw when i need to use them, adds a little waterproofing too I guess
Not sure if you will mention this, but do we have any evidence of the inside of sheaths being oiled (or lined with a less grippy material, if that would even be useful rather than counterproductive, etc) at any time or place in the Middle Ages? I ask since I own a reproduction sword and the scabbard came with the lining inside oily (or perhaps the oil on the blade stayed inside it, I am not sure)
Before stainless steel, the only way to keep blades from rusting was grease / oil, so daily use would keep the sheat oiled /water resistant .
@todsworkshop Some more historical weapons testing that you might find interesting. kzhead.info/sun/hJWklKZ8haCaZo0/bejne.html
0:00 I can tell that this video is going to create an interesting discussion. 😄
I very much enjoy the way you bring practical reality into our understanding of Middle Ages living and debunk our preconceived notions of how they preferred their kit! Always a pleasure to watch, thanks Todd Cutler! 😀
Great video Tod!!! I can see why you have so many subscribers. I'll have to give you a shout next time I'm out your way. ...Richard
So there was a reason why they made scabbards loose fitting! Excellent work as always, Tod!
Since leather shrinks and hardens after being soaked, especially with hot water, it may give us a hint of how they fitted scabbards to the individual blades and how they got away with using only one layer of leather.
10:33 love that you stood right in the path of the sprinkler hahaha
*So* many good points... which it's fun to see someone very knowledgeable put forward when, ironically, I've been trying to say this to fellow modern collectors for 20, 30 years or more. (And so very refreshing to hear someone knowledgeable putting forward that "*I* don't like it, but.." and distinguish between preference--and necessity.)
Thank you for taking one for the team so we dont have to. Quality stuff as usual! #unsungheroes
Awesome video! On one point though, I believe theres a decent bit of evidence for textile or parchment liners on many medieval sword scabbards. At least from my reading in Covering the Blade by Goubitz, there are lots of imprints of whip-stitches along the mouths of scabbards, implying the presence of a liner that was attached there. If I'm not mistaken the still existing scabbard for the sword of saint maurice is one such example among many other fragmentary finds.
Yo that creek is MOVING!
Have now made over a dozen dagger and sword scabbards for myself and mates. Ive found that they start quite tight (usually fine until the last inch or so of stitching). But a bit of oil and working in and out of the scabbard and they work really well. But saying that I haven't soaked them. Interesting video.
Hi Todd good to watch you on tv again today (28th May 2023) on scrap heap challenge ..
One thing came to my mind is that force moving towards enemy can throw multiple of these in volleys while advancing, 1 per 20-30 meters of closing in, so there might be not time to pick them up as there's more incoming. We are also bit used to seeing volleys but what if there's constant harass coming at you. Also they can be useful for a infantry to have against bigger targets like cavalry formation, to possibly injure/frighten the mounts, riders aren't going to pick them up. It's a handy piece to have, throwing it from behind the battlements fast, and get back to cover. Things might haven't been that easy to pick up in a big crowd of soldiers moving about, trampling the one's that landed on the ground, while the guy next to you is screaming due to having one stuck in his leg, arm, whatever. Also, if you get a cramp or minor muscle injury from the throw, then you could fall back to the rear maybe to get some respite, I bet they'd rotate the injured anyway in any circumstance with fresh troops, so they could fight a while later in long battles.
Contact cement also works well for adding leather bits in sheaths, the dry time is a little long though
Reading the comments brought something to my mind when I was a conscript: even rifles slings are set differently depending on the situation. On a parade, they are fit tightly, so they look good and you can fling the rifle around pompously. In a practice they sling is loose, so you can actually keep it hanging and still aim with the gun. Can't do that with parade-tight sling. So somewhat loose scabbard makes sense when your life depends on your sidearm being able to be drawn as fast as possible if you lose your main weapon. But if it's your main weapon, it could be a tad tighter fit, as you have more time to wrestle with it before your unit closes with the enemy.
I like the channel and the effort Tod shows, top notch. Also I thought about scabbards and came to one very simple conclusion, unlike in this piece, the inside was treated to repel water. This goes for wood and leather. And they knew about the problem so they wouldn't ignore it totally and apply protection inside and out. There are several ways of doing so, think of boiled linseed oil, varnish or tar like the boatbuilders did for centuries. The archeologists wouldn't necessarily find the fact if they don't look for it specifically. Tar in a wooden splinter is nearly impossible to recognize you need to run a test for it to do so. The high status ones may be lacquered not only for the display of wealth or style but also for practical reasons.
Talk about give your opponent advantage, to quote Maximus from Gladiator: The frost, sometimes it makes the blade stick!
Really interesting tidbits that I hadn’t considered before
Tod out here asking the oddball everyday questions no one else will ask.
Seeing Tod walk into that river gave me legit anxiety flashbacks to every time my Boy Scout manual warned me that even a small river could sweep you away if you didn't have any rope or a buddy.
Good point, but if you have a sword and scabbard you're well-prepared for any hazards you might encounter downriver!
Tod! You The Man! Love ya work, asking the question, testing the question and generating more questions. So were scabbards/sheaths considered a ‘disposable’ (for some strange definition of disposable, a fighting season, a year, so many river crossings, or it’s just too bloody tight) item? And was the material (poplar or birch) valuable enough that after it has swollen, we let it dry (in a box near the cooking hearth) for “some time” and it’s back to ok? Same question for a completed scabbard: it gets wet, it becomes unusable, is it worth “carefully drying out” or just chuck it in the bin & get a new one? You mentioned scabbards with a small amount of wool - greasy (water repellant) wool? Some sort of self lubricating effect? Would this have been any use on voyages of Scandinavian tourists or similar? I dare say we simply don’t know…but you put a lot of fun into the asking of the pragmatic questions 😀 keep up the terrific work, Hi from Oz 🇦🇺 Oh, you caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, You caaaaaan’t have them shlopping about, But they MUST NOT be too tight!
Here in Germany I've learned from a swordsmith that they often lined their scabbards with oiled fur with the grain facing downwards. This way the blade was kept nice and greasy, had a bit of wiggle room and the grain of the fur (goat mostly) had some grip to keep the sword in place. What's your opinion about that?
7:47 I have made 5 scabbards for my LARP swords. I have only perfected it by the 4th attempt. My first 3 were "questionably made". 😅
i have both Tod Cutlers and Tods Workshops daggers and knives and the leather fit it perfect on them, you seem to be able to do it all. my swords from valiant armories are very well held too - tight on one, held in the middle and one loose in a later period slung loose kinda quick draw
my basement (and clean shop area) can be humid. If I forget to run a de-humidifier, swords I am working on often stick in the scabbards I am making for them. I have to dehumidify until it shrinks enough to remove it. Then, heat the blade a little and put it into the wooden scabbard. It will shrink the wood that it touches some and then it will fit right forever. I have wanted to ship before, and had a basement leak, and had the sword stuck the day I planned to ship. That's how I learned this weird trick to salvage a scabbard without having to scrape it full-length potentially. Thanks for the video. It sort of resonated with my experiences making all-wood scabbards for custom swords.
A delightfully nuanced exploration of this whole subject. I really like the whole theme of 'just because we like it like that today, doesnt mean it was fit for purpose under medieval use.'
Very interesting and realistic. And I like the Bunny ears.
Regarding the end there- That scabbard will loosen back up though in a bit of time and with some use. Though not as nice as yours I do make scabbards too- even made a couple for my Albion Knight- one with fittings I bought from you- Mine are usually pretty snug when new made but after just a bit of break in they loosen up some. My end goal is a scabbard that when held upside down holds the sword but when lightly shaken easily releases. That seems to be my sweet spot So you have to consider the new fit as opposed to the broken in fit too
Excellent video. I have to admit I have never given any thought to the hows and whys of sword and scabbard making in the medieval days. Do you thinking oiling the blade with grease or oil would have helped at all?
Interestingly, I recently tightened the sheath of a left hand dagger bought from you. I used a small piece of deer hide, glued it in exactly as you described. I also make my own sword scabbards. I have a particular method that isn’t historical but it works. I always line the inside with fur, use about 2mm wood (sometimes two layers of edge banding adhered together), wrap that with linen (with rabbit skin glue), leather (hand-stitched tight while wet, no adhesive). They usually take about a month to settle in but they’re always perfectly snug at the end. The swords won’t fall out, but drawing is smooth and effortless. The inner fur lining might not have been used in the past, but it helps keep the blade clean and oiled, allowing me to store the swords in their scabbards for long stretches without worry. Now I’m going to have to submerge one to test it.
I wouldn't be so positive on the method not being historical. Before I made my first scabbard, I did a lot of research on the topic of scabbard making and came also up with lining the inside with fur (shaved goat fur - with the stroke towards the point of the sword). I believe it was a more ancient way of building scabbards (dark ages/early middleages).
Yeah, that’s about how I understand it, too. More of an early medieval thing. I do it for all of my swords, except for antiques and Japanese ones.
@@mitcharcher7528 I still wonder why they abandoned that way of building a scabbard. While those are more "chunky" due to the multiple layering of materials, they also work very well - even under damp conditions. Due to some oversight, I've let a sword sit about half a year during fall and winter in a scabbard on my terrace and when I tried to pull the sword, it came loose pretty easy and didn't have any mayor corrosion damage to the blade (the guard and pommel had quite some rust).
I'm not sure if it was you (Tod) or from another channel. Talking about oiling a weapon (Sword) to: ¹Protect against water, rust. ²Provides a more smooth and deeper cut. Oiling up the sword, might also wear off the friction/suction of the wet scabbard. And also treat the leather scabbard. Multiple functions 😁
I think Skallagrim said that in a video where he showed maintenance for his swords.
@@xxlepusxx.. Maybe 😊 Another great channel.
seeing tod in a river is all i needed in my life
As Adam Smith commented in Wealth of Nations when describing how pins were made in a pin factory with each worker having one single simple job. I wonder if some smaller towns would have so many specialties though and wouldn’t perhaps just have one smith and another person that makes handles and assembles knives/tools. They could then either have a family member or worker who makes the fairly low quality scabbard/sheath.
I hear a lot about hunters bow and arrows vs the warbows and arrows. I'd love to see a comparative video.
thanks for taking the plunge for science, Tod!
Thank you! I was about to spend me weekend finding and fording a river and now I dont have too. Back to watching youtube videos I guess.........
I suspect the level of fit you most want is going to vary hugely more in history by what you expect to do with your weapon than what the weapon is. Though of course if you can't get your ideal you have to settle for the best you can get. For instance a highwayman probably wants the loosest quickest draw they can get letting them toss in an flourish or two for the extra shock and intimidation factor on approach, or cut the purse strings in swift and quiet movements. At least if they don't plan from the beginning to just murder the folks they are robbing, in which case it doesn't matter at all as the blade was drawn in advance of the action. Where your reasonably well off merchant or noble might want their gear that is part self defence part status symbol to be really grippy - means it can be really ornate, very valuable with gilt and gems etc - the sort of thing they probably can't trivially afford a new one and it is nearly impossible to steal. And your general man at arms probably doesn't care how grippy it is, as long as they can't lose the sword and get the quartermaster mad at them.
I wonder if people were all tactical and shit back then. Like I imagine lot of people hardly had any options and just bought whatever was available at the local Smith or something
@@zwenkwiel816 it's called custom made, it happens alot with local smiths.
I just bought a peasants knife from Tod and while I'm a blacksmith myself, I've always loved gods work. I watched his video on how to attach the sheath with a thong and having made knives for a long time, I don't do much leather work. So the knife is loose in the sheath, but the way its attached with the thong it doesn't fall out. I live in Oregon USA and we can and do give the British Isles a run for their money on how many days in a year it rains and how much falls. Everything that was explained makes sense and I have a feeling that if it gets wet, the fit might be perfect, but a little harder to resheath without slicing it about half way down. Great knife, sharp enough to shave yourself and solid. Good working knife.
As an Iaidoka, a loose saya (scabbard) is most undesirable and somewhat embarrassing when one's Iaito (practice katana) slips out and clatters to the floor! We 'break' the bind by pushing out with thumb on the saya. Was not this the practice when drawing an European blade as seen after the soaking here? Top marks to Tod for authenticity. I would of just immersed the sword and scabbard to avoid the unpleasant immersion of one's nadgers in the cold stream!
3:52 this happen in modern day too but mostly with hammers on construction sites. You can walk with the hammer but going down the stairs or moving faster, the hand goes to the hammer automatically. There may be other stuff that hand goes to too like a knife. I have even worn a sledgehammer like a hammer and that really needed stabilization with a hand but it left other hand free for other stuff and carrying it in hand would have been less convenient.
Great topic. The whole medieval manufacture of quality is not something I ever considered before.
Thanks for doing so many of these types of videos! You are showing me exactly what I want to know, how these weapons and armors perform in the real world. I've often wondered how practical a group of archers would be when trouping about the english countryside in the rain, do crossbows require less care and attention? And again wondering about the armor such as chain links when they get super rusty, how would a man-at-arms clean each individual link? Would the rusty armor perform differently or cause mobility problems?
The way I've heard (with no confirmation whatsoever) is that indeed, rusty chain links can bind as well as weaken, thus presumably hampering movement as well as effectiveness Again with no confirmation I heard that a typical way to clean mail is stick it in a barrel with some sand & roll it around for an hour or 2; the fine cleaning/oiling comes afterwards if necessary
And arrows don't stay straight when it's rainy
@@rdt1104 My understanding is that bowstrings are more affected by immediate exposure to water; waney arrows would prolly take a bit longer to appear
My take is that they did want at least somewhat snug scabbards - I went into several skirmishes with a scabbard for my dagger that was really, really loose and managed to loose my dagger more often than not. It got shaken out by all the jogging and fighting and occasional falling down and I'd think that not having a dagger there at all is worse than potentially drawing it with its scabbard still on. And the quick draw has been massively over-rated - sure, it's nice to have, but the difference in draw time will be a few seconds at the most, and you will very rarely be in a situation where that will matter (which is why we only rarely saw quick draws during the Wild West, despite how popular movies made them), doubly so when you are wearing heavy armor and wrestling is an option. This problem would be a lot worse on horseback during some types of the horse's gait, so it is quite possible that lower-grade, less snug scabbards were sold to people who didn't expect to fight on horseback and could therefore (if all else failed and provided they even had a horse) just tie the sword to the scabbard without much issue. How a sword hangs is also a factor, I think - katanas do have a very close-fitting scabbard after all, and they were worn horizontally. Also, while being a rich knight gets you a lot of thing, it will not get you out of getting soaked. Sometimes you had to ford a river to attack the enemy (army-wide at Kressenbrunn 1260), sometimes you even go for a swim (accounts of "many" people doing it, Nicopolis 1396).
Am the same my seax is a bit loose and its fell out a few times. So i ended up tying a bit of string to keep it in until i got a friend to glue a leather band inside the scabbard.
I hadn't thought water's effect on scabbards. Great experiment.
On the rare occasions I have made knife sheaths I like to make a thin wooden sheath to wrap the leather around, it prevents the leather sheath from getting cut up.
Accessible and secured. My everyday fixed blade is secured with cordage through a hole drilled in the handle that loops over a button on the sheath - holds it in place but can be freed one handed - kept freed when I know I'll have to be using it often. Don’t doubt troops on the move in medieval times had reasons for the same - bad to have a blade stuck in its scabbard - equally bad to have lost it several miles back on the trail.
Hi Tod, another great video. I've been a fan of the channel for quite a while now and so have a lot of my friends. Recently we have been discussing a really cool experiment/video idea we'd love to see you try out. Slings vs armor. Seeing what a skilled slinger could do to various armor types with the various ammunition types that were historically used. There's an exceptionally skilled slinger who has a small KZhead channel called "Archaic arms". He also lives in England and has said he would love to volunteer his skills for testing if you're interested. Seeing even a short film with you guys would be like a dream come true for us all. If it sounds like a cool idea to you please don't hesitate to contact him or myself to organize it.
Also, mad respect to the dedication to actually get into the river with the sword😂
I made a scabbard for a sword I had,, and what I did was make it from two thin pieces of wood that I carved out a slot for the sword in, and then cladding the inside of the scabbard with fur and glued the pieces together..Finally the outside was covered in leather.. The fur inside both held the sword in, and when you put your lightly oiled sword in it it never rusted...
Interesting. I recently made an adjustment to my story involving a culture that saw being un-armed almost equivalent to being naked. I just added a method by which they could restrict the sudden rapid-fire drawing of a sword so no one gets cut down in public without warning; safety clips. a little something to hold the weapon in place so it required a split second to loosen before drawing (easy to do with magic so it's less of an issue). it has the addition of being a status sign if you need multiple clips on you weapon to be seen as safe. This thing about securing your sword in the scabbard or just enough to keep it safe and dry, is off set by the clips, because if you're going to draw your blade, you're keep it unclipped and you hand on it. if you're not, it's clipped in, and not touched.
This is a pretty common idea, it's called peace-binding or peace-tying. You'd think there would be some status associated with a complex beautiful knot, which means you know you won't have to draw your sword. Or maybe someone has to tie the knot for you, and if you untie it you won't know how to get it back together. Or people being sneaky and tying a knot that comes unraveled easily, or a trick knot that's tied right but isn't actually connected. It seems like a high overhead for very little peacekeeping benefit.
Paying respects to the valiant microphone that got damaged by the water during the recording of this video