Is BPD Just a Form of PTSD? | FRANK YEOMANS
Is BPD actually simply the result of trauma, just a form of PTSD? Why do some people who experience trauma develop BPD and others don't? How can we distinguish between the two disorders?
Dr. Frank Yeomans discusses the difference between a trauma disorder and a personality disorder, and the most important aspect of treating both. Hint: detoxifying aggression.
Includes an extended treatment example of a person with dissociative identity disorder.
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Frank Yeomans is an expert clinician who makes use of Transference-Focused Psychotherapy in his practice treating NPD and BPD. In fact, he co-wrote the manual on TFP for Borderline Personality Disorder!
Check out our interview of Otto Kernberg (who mentored Frank Yeomans) for lots more related material: • Otto Kernberg
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as yeoman's teacher mr Kernberg put it: people with BPD and NPD..have suboptimal parents, parents who are not empathetic, who are abusive in some way, don't see the child as a person in its own right so don't encourage the emergence of the true self...etc. That's all very traumatic for a child. That's why it is developmental trauma
That's meeee ! My mom was crazy/ insane !
You have just described my childhood. Thank God people can understand now how frightening it is as a child. More like terrifying. My mother was a narcissist. Would love to know more about all this.
Dr. Daniel Siegel also talks about parental attunement. Some parents can’t read or since their children’s responses and needs. They’re mentally or emotionally checked out or may have addictions, developmental or mental health issues or trauma of their own.
I see it as a chain of damage, investigating the history of your ancestors can be very insightful and healing. Of course, sometimes people are just s**tty, but in my experience, it's people passing on trauma as they don't have the strength to go inward and process it. I also think that bodywork has a lot to offer for these conditions.
@@PurplePassionPaper I wrote this to another post. but maybe helps to understand how developmental trauma happens: transference is the feelings the client 'transfers' onto the therapist (it is a kind of displacement: the feelings you have towards your mother/father/siblings are being transferred onto the therapist so you see them as if they were your mother or sister...etc..the 'as if' is important. if the client thinks that the therapist is actually her mother/sister/father...etc...then she is psychotic. countertransference is the feelings that are aroused in the therapist by the client. there are two types of countertransference: 1, objective: the feelings aroused by the client through projective identification, 2, subjective countertransference: the therapist own feelings towards the client. It is really important that the therapist can differentiate between the two, so she won't confuse her own feelings with what the client projects into her. projective identification: it is part of the countertransference. as is mentioned above, it is through the mechanism of projective identification the client dumps her unbearable feelings into the therapist. it is beyond projection. when the client projects feelings onto the therapist, she attributes her own feelings to the therapist, but she is not actively eliciting those feelings in the therapist. through projective identification, however, the client induces feelings in the therapist. She pressures the therapist through verbal and non-verbal communicatoin to feel those feelings she cannot bear. That's what borderlines do all the time. Evacuating their unbearable feelings into others through projective identification. That's one of the main reasons why it is so hard to be around them. (e.g. there's a girlfriend and a boyfriend with at a party with a group of friends. girfriend is flirting heavily with another man from the group while boyfriend is watching. boyfriend feels really humiliated, but doesn't want to make a scene, so he leaves the party and goes back home on his own. after the party is over and the grilfriend gets home, the boyfriend tells her that her flirting with another man in his face made him feel sad and humiliated. Borderline/narcissitic girfriend feels of course starts to feel bad about herself because she feels guilty and ashamed, but she cannot bear it. So she evacuates these feelings into the boyfriend: she raises her voice and accuses the boyfriend of being antisocial because he left her and the group of friends without saying goodbye. When there's projective identificatoin, there's always a 'hook' in the receiver: the boyfriend is actually quite an introvert and at other occasions he didn't really want to go out with her friends. So the boyfriend starts feeling guilty and ashamed, he feels that he is the bad one, because yes, he did leave the party without saying goodbye to the friends. So although he was the one humiliated and hurt, borderline/narcissitic girfriend successfully induced the feelings of guilt and shame in him through projective identification, so she doesn't need ot feel bad. But projective identification is not always bad. It is the basis of empathy. When a friends tells you about the unfortunate things that happened to them and you start feeling sad, it is because your friend induced those feelings in you. and that's OK. we need to feel empathy towards each other. Also, the non-verbal baby communicates wth the mother through projective identification. When the baby feels hungry/in pain/uncomfortable, for the baby that's life threatening and persecuting. The baby needs to project these unbearable feelings into the mother. if the mother is responsive and can function as a container (the concept of container-contained comes from psychoanalysis, from Wilfrid Bion, and all other therapeutic modalities have co-opted it. If a therapist cannot contain the client, then she is not a good enough therapist), so if the mother can cootain the baby's unbearable feelings and think about it, feel it, do this for a suffcient amount of time and thus 'detoxify' them, process them for the baby and then project it back in a detoxified, bearable form, then the baby is contained. If the mother is a 'leaky container', and cannot detoxify the baby's projections, then what the baby will intorject is the 'nameless dread'. The concept of containing the feelings of the infant is quite similar to mentalisation. Children learn to mentalise - be aware of their own and other's internal states - because they are being accurately mentalised by adults: these adult can contain their negative feelings and can accurately mirror back the positive ones. Children develop personality disorders - I would rather say narcissistic/borderline/schizoid adaptations - because they have to adapt to inadequate caregivers who cannot provide the containing function becaus they are unresponsive/neglectful/abusive. What borderline clients need most is containment. Because they have never been contained by their caregivers. That's why they cannot regulate their emotions. Children learn to regulate their emotions and mentalise through a secure attachment with a responsive primary caregiver. Secure attachement is interactive co-regulation between mother and infant. People with narcissistic/borderline/schizoid/avoidant adaptations have never had caregivers who were securely attached and could contain their unbearable feelings. That's what is called developmental trauma. Alan N Shore is a neuro-psychoanalyst who is worth reading and a book called: 'Borderline, Narcissitic and Schizoid Adaptations - The Pursuit of Love, Admiratoin and Safety' by Elinor Greenberg. Hope this helps
It continues to sadden me how people suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) are led to believe that BPD just happens. The fact is, it is very clearly a strategy to cope with severe narcissistic abuse in childhood. It's how a child must adapt mentally, emotionally and psychologically to the perverse and often abusive nature of those who gave birth to them, but can never be real parents to them. I truly understand how difficult it is for someone with BPD to see this. However, reading David P. Celani's book "Leaving Home" makes it all so clear. Unfortunately, the mental health field often hurts many people when it ignores the unbelievable terror, shame, and harm created when a parent looks normal but lives from an ego structure that cannot tolerate needs and wants, boundaries, criticism, responsibility and has no access to love and respect from its infantile place of extreme selfish and self-centered existence. Of course, the narcissist was horribly traumatized in childhood. But to allow anyone with BPD to believe that it's genetic or some disordered maladaptive aversion to emotions is hurtful. The narcissist could not tolerate anything other than complete adoration from their child, so the same child will have a terrified relationship to rage, which is something they likely felt most of the time in regards to the perversion of roles forced on them while simultaneously never getting their developmental needs met.
People seem to only focus on the big T traumas but little T traumas can be and often are significantly impactful. The majority of my clients with BPD have C-PTSD consisting of the little T traumas. I have always approached BPD treatment from a trauma approach. I combine trauma-inform, attachment, and DBT. But I tend to work with “high functioning BPD” women.
Would you agree your high functioning patients have emotional empathy that have BPD (which you approach with trauma treatment) is very similar to C-PTSD? There's a theory that pwBPD that succeed in therapy have emotional empathy and are suffering from PTSD while failing patients don't have emotional empathy and are actually narcissists. Essentially meaning BPD doesn't exist as suggested, what do you think?
Understandable, given there are many who have experienced big t trauma with no Ill effects though.
@@susanramen1615 From my perspective, as an ex client who is (very recently) hopeful to again be a client soon - after promising myself I would never trust taking talk therapy again - it’s NOT just the trauma.... It is negative non trauma or micro aggression or micro trauma events prior to and especially AFTER a major trauma that can make one BPD. Maybe one or two BIG traumas sandwiched between lots of micro stuff. I was always bragging to myself in my 20's/30's that I was AOK about losing a parent to suicide, and that I came out OK from it - I was ignoring how it was the LITTLE stuff combined with that one big thing that was ruining my life - that combined with all my baggage some from childhood and mostly from adulthood - plus what I saw as a very unethical situation with two social workers which certainly did not help matters - but thats another subject. JMHO.
I have major CTPSD and PTSD , I tick all boxes of BP. However the way he describes BP is helping me lot. Thank you
I honestly suspect its developmental or attachment trauma which almost no one will remember as a "capital T Trauma" but in essence it works the same way ...again a hypothesis lol. But I have a decently strong feeling about this. I'm honestly surprised it's not treated with the same level of credibility as "capital T trauma" because to me it probably is that but due to no memory (nor can you ask a baby how it's feeling due to being traumatized) it becomes something that is a part of your personality and settles into you on a hard-wired and unconscious level. But that it is just as traumatic as Trauma.
I love listening to Frank Yeomans (as well as the other experts). Thanks for interviewing them on this channel!
I also met diagnostic criteria for BPD for the better part of my life, with no history of "capital T trauma." Someone, maybe it was Yeomans, talked about the idea that BPD is developmental in the sense that primary caregivers can't meet the needs of the child or help them work through their problems. Not because of a noticeable deficiency in the parent, but because those needs are very hard to meet because the child is somewhere extreme on the social-sensorial spectrum. I believe this explains why BPD looks so much like trauma. But I think he's absolutely right about the fact that, as opposed to PDSD or even CPDSD, it's pervasive in every aspect of a person's life, cognition and emotion. I really believe that in the future, if we can say "this child has an emotional disturbance that predicts adult BPD" then we can teach parents to parent a little bit differently to offset that. I think it is true that the normal cultural things we say to children to instill resilience aren't heard correctly by children with this kind of emotional disturbance, including, "you can do this" (as someone else on the channel pointed out) or even, as I was told constantly at one point, "it's ok to cry." I would have benefitted from being given ways out of intolerable situations and also distractions. It took me about thirty five years to start learning to distract myself in a way that is similar to what most eight year olds seem to have learned. And I had to teach myself.
ADHD is a strong predictor of borderline
I assume you meant PTSD? Makes me wonder what you thought the D stood for PDSD.
@@NaNa-re3wcPedants of the world Unite!
@@idontcare8405is it? I recognize that I am a year late, but can you cite references?
I deeply appreciate this comment. I believe there is a strong link between trauma and BPD, as well as an overlap of BPD symptoms with "autism + developmental trauma."
Feeling unsafe in early childhood typically unsafe around a caregiver is the etiology of BPD. Once a young adult goes some time with a sense of safety, the BPD resolves
Dr. Yeomans is a treasure trove of information and insight.
So helpful to hear this discussion. I have BPD and heaps of displaced anger. I'm now working on developing my empathy so I don't feel so alone.
My diagnosis, severe depression, depression with anxiety,b.p.d., bipolar disorder anxiety disorder only,you name it! Don't want a label anymore,and need therapy. We need to get off this thought that we need a label to help us 😢!!!!
I agree, labels can be helpful to some extent but can be very dehumanising if someone feels that that is their lot in life (it's not!). Find yourself a good relational therapist who will allow you to feel fully heard. Look into IFS (internal family systems) therapy too. Above all be compassionate to yourself, and I wish you good luck on your journey - you can do it! Speaking as someone who has done a lot of work on myself in therapy, I would say, do not lose heart, you can feel better if you are prepared to do the work with a good therapist, with whom you have a good rapport. Good luck 🙏
Hi, severe neglect. Put into foster care. Sexually abused, suicide feelings as a child rose up to be a happy business person but I could not sustain it.
I have parts of my past I can’t remember. I ran away from home at 12 and again at 15 I have bpd and my teenage years looked more like antisocial personality disorder to a degree. I have cptsd. It bothers me that I can not remember parts of my life. I tested with an iq of 145 however did not even finish highschool and have a hard time with basic writing skills at times. So weird.
IFS has a lovelier and better explanation of BPD trauma. Exiled parts of us respond to the trauma by protecting differently, based on which protective behaviour works best in the situation we are in. BPD parts usually consist of a recruiter (always in search of an unconditionally loving parent) and a highly suspicious part (both polarised), and parts that are extremely self destructive as well. Understanding the trauma of these exiled parts free the protectors from their roles and rigid behaviours. Depathologising the borderline client by Dr Richard Schwartz was really enlightening.
I have ASD and experienced trauma and complex trauma growing up. Undiagnosed until my mid 50s, I must say that when looking at the criteria for BPD, I can check most every box. I'm not saying I have BPD but I recognize the traits. A lifetime of inability to initiate or maintain relationships, splitting, paranoia, psychotic episodes and suicidal thoughts are all a part of my experience. Is it possible that in some cases, ASD + PTSD results in BPD? ASD typically has genetic underpinnings not unlike BPD which results in, among other things, confusion in understanding the motivations of others. There are those that suggest the ASD experience is traumatic on a good day and is typically internalized out of shame. ASD plus abuse, invalidation, neglect, violence or other forms of trauma in childhood has a profound effect on an individual's sense of self identity. Is it a coincidence that females are underreported with ASD because of their innate ability to conceal their traits while many diagnosed later in life with BPD are in fact female? Not suggesting that ASD + PTSD = BPD in all cases, but when so many with ASD conceal traits even from themselves, trauma, even quiet trauma over time may lend itself to personality disorders. Just some thoughts.
I'm in agreement, and couldn't have put it so well. Thank you.
I think the criteria for BPD can be looked at as symptoms. Many people experience those symptoms in their life, arguably everyone. When combing through my own journey, I can see that there have been times (especially at the beginning of my hours when things were the least treated and understood) more of those symptoms were present. I think BPD is a spectrum, but I also believe in order and I truly have BPD perhaps other conditions like trauma and ADH/ASD need to be managed. If after management someone still meets the criteria for a personality disorder then you could say they truly have it or they're severe or perhaps if they don't you could determine l, like I said, more of the "symptoms" from the other conditions. Also, as a spectrum, a lot of people will identify with the symptoms/traits at some point, but are they constant everyday? How many of them are happening everyday for the last 6-12 months or how many are occurring every week. The other point id like to make is depression. A lot of people confuse the emptiness of long term depression with BPD emptiness and I think therapists latch on to comments around empty or hollow and alarm bells go off for BPD, but along my journey and moving out of my 20s and getting to a place of stability, I can see clearly that I've always had a sense of self even if I didn't know it at times.
@@SamanthaParker-ir2gq Thank you for your comments. These are complex questions and honestly I don't believe psychologists and clinicians can fully provide us with answers, only paths for pursuit. For myself, neurodivergence appears to be the ground floor condition that other challenges quickly piled up on. Trauma for an infant that is wired neurodivergent may not be so readily recognized; a significant portion of that may fall silently into the realm of insecure attachment. An early relationship with the mother (not necessarily by any particular fault of the mother) that results in disorganized attachment, the sense of one's self worthiness and the trustworthiness of others becomes becomes distorted. Neurodivergence is a recipe for difficulty in relations and communications in general throughout life. As a child grows up, relationship traumas are bound to pile up. Virtually all of my lifelong difficulties are around relations, communications and the inability to form secure attachments on any level. Add trauma and stress and the internal experience seeps into the outer realm, sometimes awkwardly, sometimes explosively. Internally, I have intense feelings of needing to connect but I know I'll be betrayed once the person finds out who I am. The emotional disregulation becomes impossible to mask. Then comes the splitting, the rage, the distorted thinking, the paranoia, the dissociation and all the other wonderful traits associated with BPD. As you were saying, there is so much overlap in symptoms and traits that what it's called matters less. Whether it's symptoms associated with trauma, CPTSD, ADHD/ASD or BPD or whether it's a full blown personality disorder, the distinction starts to lose importance. What is important is that the symptoms have to be treated or managed in some way. I am better able to manage all of this through careful isolation where I can control my environment, monitor my internal state, avoid stress and focus on interests that do have positive results. In this way I'm better able to find and maintain an internal state of balance. Still, I can feel when the episodes are coming on. Sometimes it's a minor event that sets me into a rage. Other times it's an inconsolable ache that grows steadily inside. It can last for days or weeks or longer and all the traits can resume. I can feel it coming on in my brain, in my body and my heartrate, though I'm better now at not feeding it. There can be periods where the traits fully subside and I'm feeling good. Those times are such a blessing. At my age I'm settling in with the reality that I will never experience the attachment I've sought throughout my life. It's not possible for me and there's a peace in resigning to that. I have some years left and there is meaningfulness to be had. Creating with my hands has always been a good channel for intense feelings. Diet and exercise plays a very important role in my sense of wellbeing. I can take life or leave it and there's a peace in that as well. Blessings on your journey, Samantha and thank you again for sharing your thoughts.
For something is diagnosed as a disorder you have to present symptoms for a minimum of 2 years. So,for BPD, you have presnt with at least 7 of the 9 traits for BPD for 2 years.
@@samanthaginnifer7374 Personally, I've experienced BPD symptoms since fairly early childhood and I can tick every box in terms of traits. Not all at once. The traits are not always full blown, it's a spectrum and sometimes there's remission. I learned to mask symptoms and keep it "quiet". I've managed in most areas well enough to conceal the inner distress, except for when it comes to relationships. The intense need to attach, the agony and the rage when it fails cannot be concealed. It's gotten me into trouble and it's just better to accept relationships are not in the cards for me. I treasure my isolation and I guard it jealously. I come out for brief interaction when I'm ready. There are areas in which I enjoy success and immense satisfaction. Human relations is not one of them.
Thank you for the interview doctor John Padgett
There seems to be 4 components associated with developing/sustaining BPD. One which is conductive and 3 which are inherent. Trauma is the one which is conducive, in other words it creates the fertile ground, fragility and confusion for the disorder to develop. It is not a pre-requisite but only adds, more or less, susceptibility for it to manifest. That which seems to be necessarily inherent to BPD and which differentiates from PTSD or C-PTSD when all 3 come together, are: 1. An increased sensitivity and vulnerability to reactions associated with emotions, particularly associated with the amygdala 2. A set of beliefs and rationales which could be defined as 'bad thinking', meaning ill founded, as in overly cynical or overly idealistic and which tend to be held in such a strong manner that they override proper discernement of the subtleties and nuance of every different situation/person. Thinking patterns which are categorical, judgemental, undialectical, and thus generating inflexibility and a sense of entrapement, lack of resolution and helplessness. 3. A propensity and capacity for delusional thinking, similar to that seen in NPD, which I am quite certain no2. contributes to and allows to reach greater height or lengths than it would otherwise. For this we can understand why the first and foremost aspect to address in what is essentially a self-fulfilling and repeating cycle is no2. The undialectical 'bad thinking' component. Because no1. is of a biological nature and this sensitivity also holds positive attributes if kept in a healthy non volatile, non triggered state. Whereas no2. not only brings it's own problematic issues, but also creates the motivation to try and find relief and escape through indulging in delusional thinking. Which in turn, inevitably leads to further confusions, confllicts with others and reality, frustration, sense of alienation and new sense of threat. Which in turn leads back to no1.
Personally as someone with c-ptsd and borderline personality disorder...I find it incredibly annoying when I come across someone with BPD without a history of any trauma. I feel like they give a bad rap on those that do not need to be blamed anymore than they have been. I also come across those with BPD without trauma..who seem to be less honest and insightful. More often they are married to their own stories of how they became this way. And i dont know if its just my personal experience, but many of them are annoying because they dont know who they are. I think that is one of the biggest things that set me apart between many other borderlines.
Asking the hard questions 💚
Well young lady. Your presentation in this video is so bloody important and relevant that for you not to have 10 million views is NOT a reflection on the subject matter but more on how this "new world" and social media works. I am 59 and from Australia, I am well versed in the area of psychological issues and it is unfortunate that so many will not even know that your "question" exists in their life. This video brings a "conscious awareness" of just how diverse the life manifestations of this disorder can present. THANK YOU from Australia
Very, very good question.
So happy i found your channel. Thank you for making such good content!
Thanks so much to both of you for making and posting these videos!
This is a great channel
Thank you Doc Frank & Doc Carsky! :) .
Thank you, I always remain fascinated by these interviews, especially when some particular examples are told. As I often say, each person has a unique story that could in principle help all of us to better understand personality disorders and of course ourselves too. If you think, the "relation" in a broader sense is at the base of many things: it could be with ourselves and our internal feelings, or with other people, therapists or not. And in fact, I think that when two people meet each other, two different Universes, each with its own history, merge together and give life to something not always expected or expectable. Thus, for me understanding someone's feelings is not simply attributing a cause to a behaviour, but always triyng to retrace the one's past to better acknowledge his/her form of being in this World. Especially in cases as the one told by dr. Yeomans. At least, this is my opinion 😊
Lovely comment
Another remarkable video! Thank you for these discussions
I'm in a growth mode and I happy u could share this info.
Just stumbled across your page looking for BPD lectures/ info! You're my new FAVORITE PERSON lol just a JOKE!! Appreciate this channel and to see so many others that resonate with this and wish to understand and heal in their own ways. Love and light :3
Great format and very well explained as always. Frank Yeomans is amazing!
Excellent video 👍🏼
"an aggressive impulse"! bloody hell! the fury that person must have felt is mind-bending! think aileen wuornos!
Wow, just wonderful as ever. This and the last video are helping me integrate some of the violence in my speech. It feels very important. Thank you 🙏🏼
Speech isn't violence.
Rebbie Rocks!
Some people who hv had trauma in childhood do not accept that there has been any impact and appear to be very functional..... but they may have difficulties that they deny or can manage with denial or repression. Those people do not identify as having a mental health condition but they may have many related difficulties for example in terms of relating to others. Self reporting is not a reliable way to get data
According to Bessel van see Kolk those numbers on bpd and trauma are much higher. People just don't understand their own needs, so they put a barrier of toughness and denial. "I grew up without a father and a mother who screamed her guts out every night, didn't affect tho". Denial is creepy.
What about transgenerational trauma? When i was a kid i had nightmares with many different war scenes. Never experienced war myself.
Depends on the severity of trauma and other factors like parenting. Look at the parents of BPD sufferers
I wonder what the data would show, if you separate the trauma population, into attachment wounding, physical trauma, and both.
integrated mind = I see a coherent story in my life which makes sense and gives me meaning. to tell myself a consistent story is one of the most powerful tools ever! integration of EVERYTHING I experienced without excluding ANYTHING and banning it into my subconscious where it creates suffering. interestingly, that is also my understanding of God: God is the ultimate Power in which the whole Universe lives. It integrates EVERYTHING into one.
the answer to this questions is i think: Trauma + Neuroticism
I just could not hear or even half way listen to ANY of this kind of stuff until after 2 years of ketamine infusions. That's how blocked up I was. I was just not ready. Not by a long shot.
Knowing you 'have trauma' is to have purchase on one's state. Perhaps asking people if they have trauma is not the best way to work this stuff out.
Therapy in the UK ignored my trauma. I was treated for EUPD and discharged.
Many people who suffered from neglect or abuse don't recognize it was their normal.
ok. i've heard the intro. how would you know if the causal influences took place before you were even self-aware? you wouldn't. you would have to ask of the primary caregivers you were then entirely dependent upon if they did this or that. what are the odds of their memories being anything but self-justifying? pretty high i would say so game over. continuing with the vid ...
Quickest way to fix BPD is to rename it. Brilliant. This is sadly propagated by pretty much all of the youtube gurus. Though i think the current thing is CPTSD.. everything is CPTSD. I just don't get what it would change, but he name.
Agree!!!!
It potentially changes the shame and stigma around it. For example, CPSTD directs the root cause in the name itself. (which wasn’t created on KZhead btw. I believe it was potentially Pete walker, who is a licensed therapist and psychologist, coined the term) whereas “personality disorder” may make the individual feel there is something inherently wrong with the individual themself. (Can easily be interpreted “your personality is wrong and not the way it should be”) I have had therapists who get very split when it has come to diagnosing me. Everything from ADHD, to BPD, to bipolar disorder. And I’ve had therapists who will tell me “I don’t think you have BPD because you can clearly distinguish your feelings and articulate them.” But I have also done a FUCK ton of trauma work (like an exceptional amount most people could not afford because my family is wealthy) I felt very numb as a kid and definitely feel even looking back, my internal world was barely a shell. Now I feel everything vibrantly and express myself extremely well, but have needed to learn how to recognize what people are capable of giving me in terms of intimacy and presence. I’ve had pretty tumultuous relational issues for sure, but potentially it could be a sigh of growth that I am learning to choose to speak my truth, even if I lose people. I’m learning to let go of control. I had one therapist so vehement that I was ADHD. I’ve had therapists who hear I have had relational issues recently and just go straight to “you have BPD.” And I’ve had therapists who hate the DSM and believe I just had a lot of attachment trauma. All this has taught me honestly is that diagnosis doesn’t matter because it’s all fake and “educated speculation.” I just want a therapist who helps me feel my feelings, process mentally and emotionally painful events in my life, and give me relationship skills that help me find and maintain connections that I want. But yes, changing the name matters to some. Diagnoses matter to some. It doesn’t matter in the end though. What we are trying to all do is make sense of our emotional lives in an intellectual way so that we can feel safe to trust ourselves enough to process our feelings and live an embodied, but regulated, life. Please note, I have had many therapists because I could afford to and that I have been in therapy since I was nine. Also, every time I was hospitalized as a kid, I always got assigned a new psychiatrist and therapist.
''Oh, you're a naughty one, Saucy Jack!'' From the musical about Jack the Ripper, Spinal Tap. You are somebody I see somewhere, often. With comments worth reading-- thank you.
They talk as having a car accident and being a child soldier are one and the same. Clearly there should be something in the psychological makeup of the child soldier leaving the individual more vulnerable to emotional disregulation.
what kind of trauma are you talking about? Schock trauma? Or developmental trauma? If somenone had a personality disorder, surely they have experienced disorder of the attachment relationship. Which is developmental trauma. Drip drip emotional abuse that can take many subtle forms...
Developmental trauma - interesting. To be addressed in a forthcoming video - can one separate PTSD from developmental trauma. Regardless, what Yeomans designates as the difference is the degree to which traumas fingers insinuate into many aspects of a person's life, such that they might then be exhibiting personality disorder symptoms and their treatment would be advised to follow that course.
I am unable to create or maintain any meaningful anything in my life no matter how hard try.
Maybe she was scared of being rejected, so she phrased it in such a bad way? In other words, she was imagining what would be thought of her and the pain of possible resulting rejection?
Dissociation is really a problem
i think its not a smart idea to do the trauma doesut cause bpd cause not all people with trauma have bpd you can do the same thing with anything like smoking or alcohol etc but trauma is a factor in bpd
How do you known that you haven't complex ptsd from attachment trauma?
Whatever may be the reasons, I believe I am constitutionally hypervigilant and the treatment for BPD is what's helped me, not a trauma treatment.
@@BorderlinerNotes Thank you very much for your quick reply and your answer!
@@BorderlinerNotes Hi, if you're hypervigilant .... then try Somatic Experiencing. A body-focused approached can calm down your fight/flight. This is a bottom-up approach, which differs to TFP's 'top-down' approach.
An Israeli scholar was sure he knew what these people needed so I asked him if that included Gaza residents.
Sorry the difference between c-ptss and BPD isn't very clear to me. It is more likely to be BPD when the symptoms are pervasive throughout ones life? Symptoms come back in all areas : work/relationships/etc Whereas c-ptss and DiS is more likely when the person can 'function' in some parts of life but not in others?
I think you general description is how I understand it. I think of BPD having a syndrome of identify diffusion, basically meaning that the person can have extreme and rapidly shifting ideas about themselves and others. Gunderson basically said that all the other symptoms (abandonment, anger/rage, impulsivity, distrust in others and etc.) of BPD is "subsumed" by identity diffusion. Imagine having these unpredictable shifts in perception or others and self and how disruptive that would be to ones life. On the other had, I think of PTSD being a condition that has major disruptions in some areas of one's life, but not usually all and their sense of self (identity) is intact; consequently, making much easier to navigate most relationships overall. Hope this makes since.
I respect Professor Yeomans. However, I am disappointed that this video started on the topic of the aetiology of BPD, and then went completely away from that. In fact, this is the only video I've seen which even discussesthe causes of BPD. Why is this important, because imo if you do not understand the cause, then you are not treating the illness. Even Marsha Linehan's DBT is based on her own Biosocial theory. We are treating the symptoms, but not the cause. So, yes Professor Yeomans is right, and I'm glad the interviewer pointed out that she does not have any trauma, there are still things about BPD for which we still do not have answers. P.S. I loved Prof. Yeomans "Cloc-watching example' in this video: kzhead.info/sun/ab6Anrtqb4inbHk/bejne.html
Sorry to complicated, also would not want to go into therapy with all this also. There for me,some people would not be open to their sessions this deep. Me , perfect therapy.is a balance of telling me truth, and not label me to much. I've been labeled with lots of things.
Should focus at least in part focus on attachment trauma? And CPTSD. Is the broader base not narrative? Could Jordan Peterson’s self authoring programme with its 7 epochs life narrative help?
There is no T traumas and t traumas. There is just trauma. People making the distinction are doing so based on what they think should be traumatic, on what society thinks should be traumatic. They're wrong. The smallest, most unassuming little things can be far more traumatic than what people think are T traumas, in part because people are much less understanding towards those. As for psychiatric diagnosis, they're all bullshit. A few years back I used to look at this channel and go, yeah, this really makes sense, narcissistic/borderline personality disorders are a thing. No. It's all just convenient little boxes to categorize people and their behaviors. When you start to look at what really matters - people's relationships, the environment they live in, the broader social, political, economical and cultural issues, their life history, their emotional needs and so on - you begin to realize there are no pathologies, no "disorders", no "illnesses", just different ways we humans adapt to life circunstances and events, some adaptive, some maladaptive. Everything has an explanation, every symptom has a cause, there are no chemical imbalances, there is nothing mythological about it. It's simply human nature. As for trauma, it is a neat little word that would reduce massively the size of books like the DSM. Which might just be precisely why they haven't included CPTSD as a diagnosis.
There's such a thing as having trauma in your history and not even knowing it... Ya.
Interestingly, there have been some studies recently that linked BPD in some women to polycystic ovary syndrome.
Add in toxic exposure in the womb. Partial fetal alcohol syndrome, the US organisation for the prevention of FAS say BPD is an almost perfect fit for FAS. I have BPD and I know my mum has started drinking after giving birth to my older brother - self medicating and was alcohol dependent and still is to some degree. Apart from genetic sensitivity my brain took a hit from alcohol, probably attachment trauma, then other traumas. Like a lot of people. It’s not so funny how other brain conditions are treated with more compassion, but personality disorders less so. If recovery is part physical, part social, part spiritual (forgiveness and acceptance)
First!
Capitol T trauma is secondary.
Sounds like a matter of epigenetics.
Sub optimal parents???
The interviewer's nodding of her head was so distracting.
Just ignoring CPTSD and how how questionable the diagnosis of DID is, eh? 😬
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Sweetheart, you don’t have Borderline!! No psychiatrist would diagnose you with this. It’s very difficult to get a clinical diagnosis of Borderline. You can also say the same about schizophrenia, that that is caused by trauma but is not the same as ptsd. There is a wish amongst non clinicians and people that wish they had Borderline to negate the seriousness of this disorder. If it’s ptsd then it’s not so difficult to get diagnosed with it. But the truth is this is a severe PSYCHOTIC disorder, which is considered the milder form of schizophrenia. So stop trying to water down other peoples suffering who genuinely have this!!
It's interesting to me that, based on this one interview you are making an assumption without the internal or external view of the 49 years of living I had before filming this interview. I am curious how you feel comfortable jumping to such a conclusion with no knowledge of me or my history and feel comfortable enough in your perspective to challenge my own experience and one that's additionally been validated by several worthy clinicians? Truly, I am curious about your psychology in presuming to know how I lived or how precarious my future was at a particular time? As well, perhaps you could share where in the video you feel my communication to be "watering down" others' suffering for surely, that is not my intention and I would love to glean where in the video you are perceiving this. -R
@@BorderlinerNotes Borderline Personality Disorder is caused by severe child abuse. To try to suggest otherwise is an insult to the people who genuinely have this illness and who have genuinely suffered abuse and who are experiencing the reality symptoms of this illness: psychosis. This is not a ‘cool’ trendy mild mental illness. If you want to see the reality of this thing, don’t look on the internet, go into a psychiatric ward (where most of us are) THEN you’ll see the reality of how bad this illness is. You can have symptoms of something, most of us are on some kind of spectrum for everything like narcissism etc but to have a clinical diagnosis of the disorder is a much more severe thing. The DSM is officially changing in 2024, A British psychiatrist is making it official that Borderline and CPTSD are the same diagnosis and that Borderline is caused by trauma, which will put an end to ‘can you have Borderline if you’ve not had trauma?’
Borderline isn’t a psychotic disorder it’s a personality disorder. It’s not a less severe form of schizophrenia that’a schizotypal personality disorder. You have no idea what you’re talking about
@@idontcare8405 uhhh yes it is look at the medical research done by psychiatrists (even avail on wiki) when the illness was first being named. A famous psychiatrist believed it was borderline schizophrenia and a milder form of schizophrenia and many other Psychiatrists have said the same thing. But I don’t know what I’m talking about according to the non doctor. Just cos something is a personality disorder doesn’t mean it doesn’t cause psychosis. Again one of the people who wish to negate the reality of Bpd.
@@Holsgolightly I never said that Borderline couldn’t cause psychosis in severe cases. I objected to you calling it a psychotic disorder when it is in reality a personality disorder. A psychotic disorder primarily has psychotic features. You can’t refer back to early Freudian shit and take that as gospel. Borderline is not on the borderline of Neurosis and psychosis it’s splitting and sometimes vulnerable narcissism as well.