Lower Fender Rust Hole Repair | No Welding | Fiberglass Cloth
2018 ж. 17 Қар.
513 697 Рет қаралды
Presents a DIY method of lower fender rust hole repair with no welding. Don't have a welder? Use Fiberglass cloth and Body Filler.
/ @lakesideautobody
Presents a DIY method of lower fender rust hole repair with no welding. Don't have a welder? Use Fiberglass cloth and Body Filler.
/ @lakesideautobody
I love this style of video. Feels like I’m watching a classic how to video
This was made with one of those VHS cameras you wear on your shoulder - A Panasonic Omni Moive PV950
@@LakesideAutobody it looks awesome. More videos should look and sound like this! Also great explanation on fiberglass cloth
@@serjburj8506 Thanks my friend - feel free to ask ?s any time - I get to them 1-2 times a day - appreciate the positive comment 😊✌
Great content! This is what KZhead is about. If you want him to film it on 4K, YOU buy him a GoPro... He's not trying to be a TV personality or a Producer. Just a guy with knowledge trying to share it w/o all the tech tricks or fake smiles! Thank you sir!
You're welcome - glad you like the video content. Have a great weekend :)
Have a question, is this normal fibreglass resin ? or BODYFILLER sold in autoshops ? I've a 1991 that needs some operating, Thanks alot! happy days
sorry to be so offtopic but does anybody know a tool to get back into an instagram account? I stupidly forgot my password. I appreciate any help you can give me!
@Remington Easton Instablaster ;)
@@kezza10mail is a regular fiberglass boat polyester resin and reg boat cloth. Bondo is polyester too compatible...
Dude you ARE the Bob Ross of of autos. :)
I'll have to look up this Bob Ross fellow. He better not be a dork!
This is one of the best videos I've ever seen on KZhead. Thanks for explaining everything.
You're so welcome DJ - have a good week :)
Jerry, I've acquired a '65 Mustang convertible and I've sanded it to metal. I have no experience in body repair but your videos are like a one-on-one body shop instruction and I appreciate you sir. I'm happy that each repair is looking great!
You've come to the right place to learn how it's really done is high production body shops. As you work on your project, if you have any ?s feel free to ask - doesn't have to relate to the topic of the video. I answer comment once or twice a day.
Jerry never buy Ford signing of from the Philippines
@@anthonymaniz1933The old f150s with the harvesters are nice though
I hate working with fiberglass. But I also love working with fiberglass. Does that make sense? I'm sure some of you understand completely
Most definitely 😁 most everything about working on cars is a love, hate relationship.
BEST Tutorial Videos period.no BS , clear concise, succinct ,To the Point.Thank You.
You can also mix fiberglass resin with plastic filler to make a brushable filler. Use the correct ratio of hardeners for each, then mix them together and brush it on. Really nice for skimming complex shapes and custom work
This is a great video I have some rust on my 63' chevy nova and my husband is on his 14th bladder and kidney cancer so I have to depend on myself to fix my rust spots I don't have money to pay a body shop my mortgage comes first so videos like this help me greatly.Thank you for sharring was very informative God bless 🙏💜
You're welcome - feel free to ask any questions you have - Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody thank you Jerry
I've used fiberglass a lot and have often wonder why people don't use it. Now I know they do. And it works great.
It does - my dad worked at some dealerships in Michigan in the 70's and that's what he used.
Does it last? That’s what I want to know.
Fiberglass cloth is a waste of time and I would use old T-shirt fabric .
Thanks! This will really help my 1967 Dodge Charger
Great video! Clear and straight to the point, showing all steps.
Thank you
Thank you . I have done PDR dent repair for almost 30 years , but always wants to learn new things to increase my abilities. Looking forward to your upcoming videos. 😊
My dad used to be big on picks and stuff like that - he had a bunch of those things in the 70's - I never had the patients. That's something I have to work at actually :)
Brilliant, clear, to the point and.... I'm going to tackle my rusty wheel arch tomorrow! Thank you!! 😊
You're welcome - let me know how it goes. If you are having fun, that's success right there :)
Excellent job. I am going to fix my 91 Toyota Mr2
I like how you were honest about the pits at the end. Really nice video, new subscriber today.
Thank's - glad you enjoyed it and thank you for subscribing - have a good week - Jerry
Good stuff! I've patched lots of rusty cars up with fiberglass. The beer, fiberglass resin, and plastic filler buzz is the best!
Thanks - that's all my dad ever used and he worked at a quite a few shops and dealerships back in the 70/80's. He didn't drink beer though :)
@@LakesideAutobody I learned basic bodywork from good ol' boys that still think straight enamel is the only way to go. Lol! I'm glad your dad didn't drink. THAT'S JUST MORE FOR ME! 🍻 Thanks for the videos. They're great!
Thank you great video!
Thank you for the videos and real world repairs that people with real determination and only a few tools and minimal supplies can do at home on a nice day outside or in a home garage . I have had great success doing just that for years thanks to exact touchup paints being readily available in a spray can . I recently restored a 2006 5.3 gxp Grand Prix black I repaired rockers and rear quarters using fibreglass and using spray can black acrylic enamel and then clear coat after rubbing down the whole car and energy cured touchup up areas I applied couple coats of quality cleaner wax . The gxp with it original mint Alcoa Oem rims and paint correction that’s better than new car shine get loads of compliments at self serve gas stations from many as there are very few on the road here in southwestern Ontario Canada .
You're welcome. It's great to hear about your projects and repairs. I'll have to check into this car - must be faster than heck! Thanks for the comment and have a good week my friend :)
Thanks very much. the video was very informative. I needed the info to do some patching on my excavator.
So glad you liked it, thanks for the comment. Good luck - Jerry
Thank you for making this video!! I always learn something new. Have to fix a few larger holes on my ram 1500 tailgate.
You're welcome Michael - have a good weekend :)
Nice old school body work. Love it. I have two Chevelles I need to do work on. Thank you. 😎
You're welcome - glad you enjoy the old methods. Feel free to ask ?s anytime/any video - Jerry
Thanks much for this tip. We did this on my sons atv but with plastic. We have a weak wheel well thats too thin to weld. This is just the fix! Thanks.
You're welcome. Glad you could use it. Jerry
When Bob Ross does body work, just kidding I appreciate your content! Great job man thank you!
Thanks Ro Jo - you're welcome :)
Hello Jerry. My wife's 05 camery needs some love she has reluctantly, retired it from daily use. It has over 315.000 miles on it a 2.4 banger, driven highway all of its life, but we both decided she should get something newer. She has a career yet, I am retired. I am going to keep it around for a backup car. Little bubbling rust in the rear left wheelwell area other wise she is solid. The camery will be my next garage project. Take care.
Very cool - keep me posted or updated on your progress my friend 😊✌🎆
Nice video and helpful. This will work well to patch a small spot on my 2000 Wrangler rocker panel before I put the rocker panel guards on. Thanks for going through the steps of using the fiberglass first, then how to apply the body filler.
You're welcome - glad you appreciate it
For a quick fix this is the way to go...
Nice job! I have done few budget repairs this way and worked out well.
Thanks
I learned a lot from your video thank you so much.
Glad it was helpful
Been watching you for awhile and you make it so simple and easy verse the other channels thanks and keep up the good work 👍
Thanks CT Trucker - have a good weekend :)
I love these videos. You show how to get professional results with limited resources. None of this hot rod network 80k in snap on and Eastwood tools. Real stuff for real people.
Thanks - what type of Fender do you play?
I have a 2009 fender Mexican Stratocaster and a 1971 fender f-35 acoustic
Going to do this repair on my cab corners on my 85 Chevy pickup thanks for the video
You're welcome - make sure you allow for drainage so that the inside can drain and stay dry :)
This was helpful. Thank you! Trying this tomorrow.
Good - let me know how it goes - Jerry
VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEO- MUCH APPRECIATED !! PATRICK.P
Thanks - Jerry
I've used fiberglass kits from Ames, Kmart, and WalMart for decades to patch up my junk. Works great!
Absolutely - that's all my dad ever used and he worked in all kinds of body shops
@@LakesideAutobody 2nd gen body man... Nice! I learned a lot about cars from older guys when I was young and cherish everything I learned including using lead and solder. Helped spray a lot of Dupont Centari with a 2000 pack mixed in a 5 gallon plastic bucket on Saturday mornings...
@@bjr2379 Centari sprayed real nice - flowed out flat, dried hard - great paint and you could afford it back then '80's
Nice repair! I used to do these kind of repairs all the time when I was a teenager (before I had a welder) or for my daily drivers. Sometimes if the hole wasn't too big I would ding in the hole and use Tigerhair strand filler under then regular on top.
Good tip - that works really well too - just gotta make sure the panel can drain and stay dry and your good to go for quite some time :)
I like this technique, I have a Ford ranger and I have similar rust spots!! Thanks for your ideas!
You're welcome :)
Thanks for the information I learned a lot.
You're welcome - thanks for watching :)
The Master at work. Nicely done.
Thanks Rob - have a good week :)
My 2008 F150 has rust in the exact same spot..I am going to follow your steps exactly..thanks for the awesome video!
One think that can help the repair last is to try and make sure the panel is clean inside and can drain/dry. Even if have to drill a drain hole or two on the back side or bottom :)
Yep..I plan on taking out the inner wheel liner so I can get at the back of the fender. Thanks again
Great video really good job you did I'm kind of learning yet. I've never used fiberglass I am about to experiment with it with my truck because it definitely needs some body work
Thanks - glad you liked it.
Thanks for the information I learned alot.
👍😊
Great tutorial! Thanx for sharing
You're welcome
I went to college for autobody back in 91, actually that repair was in our autobody book.That is actually a technique taught in colleges,done right the way you did it can last year's.
Especially if you can seal the back side. Thanks for the comment. Jerry
I think nothing is wrong with IT As long As the structure of the car is ok and not half of the bodywork is made of it. Doors, quarter panels, why not.
@@LakesideAutobody What do you seal the backside with?
@@joshuakeith8710 If I can get to the back side, I like to use a good spray on undercoat that stays rubbery like Sem, 3M, etc. Before applying though its good to clean and or sand blast the back. Honestly it you were able to do this it will last forever. No moisture = No rust. Divide both sides by (No) and you're left with moisture = rust - how 'bout that! Just messing around - have a good weekend :)
@@LakesideAutobody LMAO! Keep up the great work! I hope your channel continues to grow!
Nice Job, thanks for showing.
You're welcome
Good video thank you. now off to work on my rust bucket. Lol
Good times!
Nice video Wish me luck patching a hole in my '88 BMW
Good luck. If you have ?'s along the way just ask - Jerry
Very much appreciated!
Thank you very much for the video. I am learning a lot from your videos. I have always wanted to be able to do body work.
You're very welcome. Stick with it and ask questions and you'll be good at it :)
Have you done series o f videos doing body work out side while dealing with temperatures and weather? I have no room in my garage to do any body work. Thank you again for your videos, they are awesome.
I'll work on getting a video out like that Bob. Glad you enjoy the channel my friend :)
You did a wonderful job now I know how to fix the rust hole on my car thanks
Thank you so much. Feel free to ask ?'s anytime. Merry Christmas!
Lakeside Autobody merry Christmas to you too
The only time you do something like this, is when you do not owe money on the car. Don't do anything this guy said, on your car. Just a warning.
If it's over, you can also sand it down to make it smooth.
All this time I've been using a cheese grater for cheese!
Thank you for your informative videos. I watched this one and another you made, concerning using fiberglass as an alternative to welding. I might mention that I had a problem. I used regular filler after the fiberglass application and the glass at the ends of the patch popped through my primer. I know I used resin to smooth it all but after sanding it down, I had this issue. In your other video, there was a small segment where you mentioned Bondo Glass. I ground off my filler and bought some of this and it seems to be working. All that said, did I do something wrong?
Sorry - I was not able to get to your first post on this for some reason. When you sand your fiberglass, you'll want to make sure the edges are smooth and "feathered" into the metal. Your filler should also feather into the metal. Everything should be smooth when you spray your primer surfacer. Make sure you use "High Build" primer surfacer (Urethane Primer Surfacer or Lacquer Primer Surfacer) as this has thickness which covers up the bodywork imperfections. You will then block sand this and it will be perfect. Here's a video on block sanding: kzhead.info/sun/eLWmoa-gg52bgok/bejne.html Hope this answers you ? - if not ask again - Jerry
Thank you very informative
You're welcome. Merry Christmas!
Nice job, good simple explanation. Note: you really should hit the bare metal with an etching or epoxy primer prior top filler.
Thanks for the support Tom - have a good week my friend :)
Love the video what size sanding paper your using on both Sanders and where did you get the cheese grader from
Cheese grater is from Amazon, 40 grit to start with on the filler, 80 grit to finish the filler, 120 grit to DA with or feather edge, scuff with 3M scuff pad any shiny paint you might get primer on and then prime - glad you like the video
Very informative video thanks
Glad you enjoyed it.
Great video, thank you!
Thanks for the support Hollywood - have a great weekend 👍🏈💯
Great job , thank you
You're welcome :)
very helpful. thanks for the video
You're welcome :)
Looks great!
Thanks Fred :)
This is the best video I've seen for the type of repair I need to make on my truck. Does anyone know how long a job like this will hold up?
It can hold up for a long time if you can coat and seal the back side of the panel (undercoating or thick rustoleum paint. I've done it where I sand blasted the back and spread a layer of bondo back there and it'll hold up forever because no water/salt can get to it. Even if you can get some spray oil back there to slow down the rust. Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody how long is a long time? 10 years?
@@brendan1675 It will last forever if you seal the back side and allow the salt water to drain off (not collect) - like sand blast it and hit it with good undercoating. It'll probably start bubbling or showing rust again with in five years if you do not seal the back. To be very honest, it is not the most quality repair, I prefer welding but still trying to seal or prevent rust from the back side.
Another great video! You are amazing and so nice taking the time to make all these great videos for the common folk to repair there own vehicles, a little knowledge and motivation goes a long way! Very nice job and like you said most inportant part is coating the backside whenever possible!
I have also used this method. It's not permanent. But will get you by for a year to pass inspection and saves you thousands on body shop repairs.
Yep - I over heard a guy today saying he was going to pay 4000 to get the rust fixed on his rockers (2013 Ford F150) fixed and coated with chip guard.
Thanks for the video man
You're welcome Buddy 😊
Graet Job Man So Graet /Baghdad 23 :00 May 10 Duraid 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you - glad you liked it. شكرا لكم وبارك الله فيكم - Jerry
Thanks for posting this! Nice step by step repair. Hope to try some of your suggestions soon. I also have just hit subscribe!
You're welcome - Happy Easter UncleMarks. You have and interesting channel yourself.
@@LakesideAutobody Looking forward to using some of your knowledge to make a few repairs properly! Take care!
Awesome.
Thanks!
as much as i don't agree with fiberglass repairs it is a pretty cheap and effective means of fixing rust without going all out on fab work.
It can last a long time if you allow the panel to drain - drill your own holes, etc. If it stays dry and you coat the inside with something your good for quite a while :)
Brother this is the best how to video I’ve seen you get a thumbs up from me and a sub. God bless you man keep up the good work.
Thank you so much. God bless you too. I'll do my best to keep the good videos coming - Jerry
Now that's a great comment!
Since the fender was off the vehicle what are the cons on applying fiberglass on the backside versus the front? Thank you for showing these videos.
You can apply it to the back or both sides if you want. Or... undercoat or seal the back to stop future rust. It's all up to you and what you think will stop the rust. Personally, I think drainage of the inside of the panel is huge. If it can drain and stay dry in there, you're gold :)
Great job
Thank you - have a good week end. Jerry
Nice talking to you JERRY!! Lol
I have a small 1inch round rust hole near my gas cap gonna cave and pave it and layer up some fibreglass to fill the hole today hopefully all goes well
Very cool. Good luck. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Jerry
How did it go?
Hope that was 1 inch around after you removed all the rust. 1 inch rust spot can’t be 8 inches around underneath.
Hey jerry, great work💯 I’m just wondering what kind of pad is on your air gun towards the end of the video when you were using the gun and the 40 grit sanding block before the primer
Hi Jake - thanks. I think you were seeing the pad on the DA sander. That's just like a stiff black foam pad that all the National Detroit DA sanders came with back in maybe the 80's. It's almost like an interface pad of today. Let me know if this answers your ? :)
I like this how to video!!
Excellent grade 👍
Thanks :)
Excellant fast work
Thank you so much - have a great weekend :)
I really like your video. Just wondering how much dry time between the fibreglass mat you put down seeing that you layer 3 layers.
No time between layers. You can leave it overnight to harden before filler.
I have went through three auto body schools. This fix is only good if you can get behind it to put a water barrier behind it. Another new product on the market is panel adhesive and a piece of metal over the spot. The issue with that is feathering which 9 times out of 10 the eye will not see if you you are a little high. Cutting the metal out and butt welding is the only way to make good as new.
Hey great Info. How do you treat back side of rust hole to prevent future rust through? And when do you treat in filling process. ?
If i sand blast and undercoat (just spray bomb type) the back I do it before or after painting - your choice. If I use old motor oil I always treat the back after paint work - paint doesn't like oil. Check this vid out for rust prevention. It really works well - kzhead.info/sun/d9Wxfax7oKyhiH0/bejne.html
Nice video wish you would say what # sandpaper you used during the process
For grinding bare metal (40 grit fiber disc) For sanding bondo (always 40 to start then 80 to finish) For blockiing primer (80, 120, or 150) - 80 for real big stuff. For finish sanding primer 220, 320, or 400 wet sand. For color or clear paint sanding before buffing (800-1500) - your choice. That's it - hope that helps - Jerry
Do you have a video that shows all the steps PLUS the sanding grits? Really enjoying your channel!
That's great that you asked that. I just made one but will be uploading it - not this Friday but the next with grit of paper. For now though - this video is a sandpaper guide - kzhead.info/sun/iZl6qa6ubZtqm58/bejne.html This one might be start to finish but it's welding - kzhead.info/sun/iaaFnKVljXOrpq8/bejne.html Hope they help ❄🎄😊
Awesome thanks
You're welcome
What do you recommend as a sealer for behind the repair to help keep the moisture out and prolong its life?
First allow for drainage - any way you can. That's the most important thing. The panel must be able to dry out inside. Second, if you can get to the back side - sand blast it real quick or at least clean it and use some good 3M or similar undercoating to seal the repair. Last, I swear by this - new or old repaired cars - kzhead.info/sun/rJRulLKwq1-kiZs/bejne.html
This should be cheaper than replacing my 300DTs fender. Thank you
You're welcome BU :)
awesome
You do fine body work. However, I was wondering if you could apply less body filler, as it seems after looking at numerous videos from Lakeside auto body quite a bit of filler is applied and 80- 90% or so of it is then removed. Looks like extra work but you are the expert. Thank you for all the tips and techniques!
When I worked I was on commission so I try to get it in one shot. A lot of guys would wipe a thin layer, sand, spread another layer, sand, etc. I don't mind wasting the filler as it is pretty cheap - 19/gal . You can do it both ways - it's up to the individual. Both ways have the same longevity. Good question William :)
@@LakesideAutobody Thank you! Keep up the great instructional work.
Thanks, very helpful video. I have 2 holes that were cut into my tractor engine cover (previous owner/previous engine) about 3" x 4" square. Is there any hole size limitations? How can the fiberglass cloth be supported from sagging while the resin is setting up?
I think you would be OK - remember boats are made in the same fashion but more layers so for bigger holes use more layers for more strength
@@LakesideAutobody Thank You! Much appreciated!
Get some paint sticks that fit across the span of the rear of the hole, and put magnets on the ends of the sticks. Lay the sticks from behind and perhaps place foil or wax paper between the fiberglass and the wood sticks to keep the resin from bonding to them. I only saw this today, so my apologies for being late!
@@shawnmann9491 I use spray foam in a can. Spray the foam in the hole, let dry, sand it down, fiberglass then putty. Beautiful every time and it lasts for years!
You can use cardboard with a sheet of wax paper over it and place the cardboard on the inside of the repair once it’s hard remove the cardboard and wax paper once the repair is completed and paint is cured apply some oil behind the repair and then brush on some asphalt black undercoat working it into the oiled metal and fibreglass so water and dampness and salt can’t soak into repair don’t skip the oiling trust me 50 years experience it works . The Encapsulates only cover rust I don’t use then on old metal , they would be fine on brand new car/truck under wheel wells and frames floors but won’t stop inner frame rust or seam or weld rust
I got rockers going out on my car. After I clean up the rust there will probably be 6” x 3” hole. How would I shape the fiberglass in my case since the hole is much larger than the one in this video?
The easiest way to cover larger areas. Is to use a "form" . By form read anything that can temporarily hold the desired shape until it dry enough to self support. All is fair game. Metal mesh, aluminum or stainless steel work quite well. So does wax paper, plastic bags, cardboard, duct tape... BTW duct tape is perfect to hold plastic or paper in place. Depending on resin type, material, thickness, hardner, etc. We might be talking about 10 minutes to overnight. So your "form" is a very temporary need. After a single layer of cloth, others can be added later. Bridging a hole can be a minutes thing! ;-)
Nice
Best to clean up the back as well becouse it will come from the inside out again clean it up and put some epoxy primer or paint on the inside to help stop the rust from forming. But Mack sure you use at least a 36 grit grinder before you use the cloth type fiberglass I have made it into molds and used Vette bond to glue it together with the panel twisting some times the fiberglass cloth will break loose kitty hair stuff it fiberglass will stick a lot better and you could use that and eliminate the bondo then sand smooth and puddy ... Keep up the good work 😃
Good information Peter - always good to hear from you. Have a good week :)
Nice.,
So do you recommend taking off the fender? What grit paper on the bondo hog and DA? Thanks, Dave
It's not necessary but it could help when trying to undercoat the back. Even w/o undercoating the back it should hold up well as long as you have drain holes or a way that salt water and debris can escape.
Lakeside Autobody, what grit paper are you using on the bondo hog and DA, thanks, Dave!
Got an old car trunk lid that has more holes than not and I warped the hell out of it with the first patch panel so everything else is about to get this here. I think I'm going from the inside to avoid any piling on such a flat surface. I just wonder how heat will affect it and how long it will last. I'm about to find out!
It can withstand the heat of the sun baking the deck lid all day if that is what you are worried about but not any welding near it. Hope that helps :)
I've seen metal mesh patches, alu or steel. Are these also a suitable alternative to fibreglass cloth used here? I have to fill a rust hole in the wheel well of my car, where it meets the outer fender. I was thinking it would stronger as well as easier to shape the metal in my application. Any thoughts or experience, respectively recommendations? Thanks for the informative videos!
I have not used the metal mesh but I think it would work. If you can coat the back - great - that will really seal it from future rust. If not, try to allow for drainage to keep the panel inside dry and clean also when finished painting you can try this method - kzhead.info/sun/a7yaiqaxbnl5ank/bejne.html
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks so much for your reply! I'll give it a look!
What do you think about por15 and fiberglass cloth? Softball size hole on my truck was patched with fiberglass and it shrunk and pulled away, I have no idea how they did it though. Thanks!!
Here's how they did it - kzhead.info/sun/Z7CdiKqum6yJd6s/bejne.html If you do it like my video, it will last a long time especially if you can seal the back side of it with a really good undercoating - even roof tar. I know that sounds crazy but you want something that doesn't flake off. Something that stays flexible and gooey on the back to seal it off from salt water.
You want to use a rust converter on the back or it will continue to rust and your repair will fall out. Then you can undercoat over the rust converter.
@@peterjlindley On the back of the repair?
@@LakesideAutobody Yes. If it was rusted on the front, it will be rusted behind. Rust converter will convert any of that rust and will stop the rusting process. Even when you grind off rust it is hard to get it all and even a small amount will continue rusting. You could use some POR15 if you can get access to the back of the repaired panel.
@@peterjlindley I know this sounds crazy but In Canada they give the underside of cars oil baths. After some time it gets like an old valve cover and doesn't rust. I personally make sure pinch welds (bottoms of doors, deck lids, hoods etc) are coated with used motor oil. I'm always looking for ideas to coat the back side of repairs - even using roof tar or something that stays gooey but is cheap. Any ideas? Jerry
very nice thank's
You're welcome - have a good week :)
Good job. I was just wondering if you could use fibreglass filler over the fibreglass mesh and then file it down and use the bonds over the filler.
Yes - you can do that. It's actually stronger that way too :)
Thank you for replying. From a 70 retiree who loves his old f150.
Do you find that a fiberglass repair under filler will last any shorter or longer than say welding a new piece of steel in?
Welding does last longer if you don't coat the back with something. If you can seal the back side, it will last forever - really :) Jerry
Do you have to be down to bare metal or could you put it over areas covered with por15?
I would say down to bare metal - but you could try it and see if it sticks. Can't hurt to try it.