My old Century III autopilot is broken - which starts the quest for a new, modern digital autopilot to replace it in the Bonanza. In this video, I'll define the selection criteria from the perspective of a serious IFR pilot, and then we'll evaluate the currently available models - and pick a winner!
Included in the review are Garmin's GFC 500 and GFC 600, the DFC90 from Avidyne, the S-TEC 3100 from Genesys Aerosystens, the autopilot of the Dynon Skyview system, AeroCruze models 100 and 230 from BendixKing, and the Trio autopilot.
0:00 Start
0:59 Selection criteria
3:23 The candidates - overview
7:15 Dynon
8:47 Product demos - S-TEC 3100 and GFC 600
13:15 S-TEC vs. Garmin
17:11 GFC 500 vs. GFC 600
18:15 And the winner is...
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I recently upgraded my bonanza V35B to a complete Garmin glass panel set up with a GFC 500. (2) G3X’s, GTN 650xi, smart glide button, ect. Ect. I fly in IFR conditions routinely. Every cent was worth it, especially when my families in the airplane traveling with me. The amount of confidence and awareness you gain is exceptional. The auto pilot has been flawless! I wish one day I could fly as well as the auto pilot! You won’t be disappointed! Steiner Aviation at Akron Canton Airport (KCAK) did my installation. Beautifully done.
Glad to hear your experience has been very good, Mark. Can't wait to get my plane back and see for myself how well it works! - Martin
Dang Martin I'm late to the party on this one but this is truly an awesome video with tons of information, really did your homework on this.
Thanks, Mike. Now that I have the GFC600 in my panel, it's everything I've been hoping for! - Martin
I look forward to seeing the finished project and really looking forward to seeing it in action. This was a very well thought out and non biased video you put together in my opinion. Thanks for bringing us along with you Martin.
Thanks for the kind words, Kevin. I can't wait to get the plane back and start seeing all the new equipment in action! - Martin
Great analysis Martin. Always enjoy your work!
Thanks, Dennis! - Martin
Great video Martin, and a vey impressive research path to the best selection. Good luck with all the other choices...lol, I'll be really interested to see what you do with everything!
Thanks, Richard - I can't wait to get the plane back and share the rest of the story. - Martin
Thanks Martin. Your usual concise, thoughtful and thorough evaluation. Very value added for those in the market for an AP upgrade or just seeking to increase their GA AP knowledge! Looking forward to your report on the remaining decisions! I hope all is well!
Thanks, Randy! - Martin
Nice video and a real help to me as I learn the finer points of selecting instruments for my panel rebuild and, over the winter months, implementing same. Thanks!
Thanks, Bob - good luck for your panel project! - Martin
Excellent video and logical breakdown of the available options. I'm not in the market for an autopilot but I do fly with a couple different ones and I've learned some new things here regarding some of the subtle differences between them. Thanks again for another great video. I look forward to watching this project unfold.
Thank you, Mike. - Martin
Another great video Martin, I have been researching upgrades for my F33A as well and ran into several issues of my plane not being supported or limitations. You made a great choice and look forward to the next one when you get it back. Beers from sun n fun worn off so hopefully see you again at Osh
Thanks, Bryan - yes, it's definitely time for some more beers soon. See you in Oshkosh! - Martin
Great video as usual with detailed explanations on your thought process! I like how you stacked them up against each based on functionality and less about price. I look forward to you sharing some of the new features in use especially if the YD is a worthy add on or just a nicety. Hope to see you in a month up north.
Hi David, thanks for the note - can't wait for Oshkosh (I'll be there all week) and for sharing the rest of this story! - Martin
@@martinpauly 😞Sorry!
Great video! I have been curious for a long time what the differences are between the GFC600 and GFC500. Im fortunate that my aircraft supports both as well and I have been keeping an eye out for a video like this! Thank you!
Great video, thanks so much! I’m starting to think about upgrading my AP, also a CIII, in my Sierra, and this is a very helpful comparison.
What a GREAT review. Thanks Martin.
My pleasure, Dale! - Martin
I just increased my Patreon subscription to you because of this and the promised upcoming videos! You are living our situation and have already saved us an enormous amount of research time. We also have a 6 pack and an Avidyne IFD and a 1993 Bendix/King KFC 150 that more or less lands us on the parallel runway. I look forward to your EFIS discussion and any opinions you have on instrument redundancy. We have a backup electric attitude indicator, but as the TN conversion in our A36 made the nose quite heavy, we look forward to reducing forward weight, but not at the expense of safety. Thanks also to the other posters with their detailed information.
Thank you very much, Lynn - and I am happy to hear this kind of summary and information is useful to you (and hopefully others as well). I'll tell the rest of the story as soon as I can. - Martin
Very clear explanation and decisions! Keep it up!
Thanks, Bart. - Martin
Nice video and great presentation! Just a note to the S-Tec on go arounds: Even the Collins AP in Pro Line 21 aircraft like the C525 Series aircraft switches off when pushing TOGA. There are pros and cons for this: Pro is that you need to establish power and configuration including AP modes consciously, yet to a higher work load which is the negative. Honeywell on the other hand keeps the AP ON on go around in the PC-12 series - bringing the problem up that when you mis-configure the aircraft for go around you can run into serious trouble as the AP does not take into account IF what he does (pull up) is actually safely possible for your configuration, density altitude, aircraft weight. It just sets pitch up and it is completely irrelevant for the AP if flaps are fully down, gear is down and you maybe even forgot to set full power. So even the really expensive players on multi million dollar aircraft are not following the same track....It most probably comes up to personal taste in this regard.
Awesome, accurate analysis, thanks for your effort!
You are welcome, Brian! - Martin
Great video. I’ve been wanting a replacement for our KFC150 and after watching your comparisions, the GF 500 would be a perfect fit for us.
Thanks, William, and good luck for doing your autopilot upgrade! - Martin
Martin- Great comparison of the many autopilot options! I just completed a total panel makeover in my Bonanza A36. I went with the 4 axis GFC 500 coupled to a GI-275. I couldn’t be happier! It flies flawlessly. Coupled go arounds are seamless! Hope to see your new configuration at OSH!
Thanks, Patrick - glad to hear you are happy with your new setup! - Martin
Great comparison video Martin, and based on your selection criteria you are making a good decision. It’s nice to have so many choices for an A36. Us Vtail fliers don’t get the Garmin 600 choice so I ended up with the Garmin 500. Both of them fly beautifully. I look forward to your videos on how to properly use all this new functionality in the Bonanza. See you at OSH….
Thanks, Andy. I can't wait to have it back, and I'm excited to learn about all the new capabilities. See you in Oshkosh! - Martin
I have the GFC 600 in my a36 and it blows my mind how smooth it is and how well it tracks. Your going to love it. I fly out of kdsm if your ever in town Martin.
I can't wait to get the plane back and experience this myself! - Martin
You did it again! Your thorough research is provided in concise, easily understood language that saves the rest of us the hassle! Great job, can't wait to see the new panel!
Thanks, Eugene. I can't wait to get the plane back, and then I'll tell the rest of the story. - Martin
Great video and great choice!! 🍻
Thanks, Kristoffer - and see you in Oshkosh! - Martin
When are we going to see YOUR Century Autopilot updated to ??? Also, are you going to add the rest of the Aspen displays for a full 2500 system?
Great video, Martin. If my Piper Dakota had an STC for a digital autopilot (technically does for GFC500 but I was not going Garmin PFD), I would have gone with the STEC 3100. Instead, when my Piper AutoControl 3B died, I went with the STEC 55X. I have an Aspen Evolution Pro Max 2000 PFD/MFD setup. I have the AP Integration where I can bug all of the AP settings directly on the PFD such as IAS, Vertical Speed Hold, Altitude Hold, and Altitude Preselect. You can shoot approaches down to 400 feet AGL. I have a Garmin GTN 750Xi Navigator and GNC 355 - both WAAS GPS.
That sounds like a good system with good integration between your Aspen (bugs) and the autopilot, Robert. - Martin
Great video. Looking forward to the next one 😊
Thanks! - Martin
Excellent video. Very informative.
Glad you enjoyed it! - Martin
Great analysis. The only autopilot that I've ever flown with is an old STEC 50 in a Cessna Cutlass RG. Compared to not having an autopilot it was awesome lol So naturally I WAS biased toward STEC. You laid it all out very clearly. I'm not in the market for an AP (yet) but hopefully one day I will be. This is great information.
Thanks, Michael. This stuff is always evolving, so things may change if you'll find yourself looking for an autopilot in a few years. At the present time, though, I feel pretty strongly that the Garmin GFCs are in a league of their own, at the top of the market. - Martin
A new autopilot.... Yes, that would be nice. My KNS80 failed and I investigated adding a modern GPS/NAV/COM to my old steam gauge panel on my 79 Archer II. A 750xi would be $23K installed! A 650 xi, $17K! I quickly found out though that the old Century IIIB would not work well with either one. Sure, I could use the heading bug, and the CDI. Or, I could add a G5 HSI (another $10K installed), and get GPSS steering. But, if I also add the G5 attitude indicator, to lose the vacuum system, the G5 AI wouldn't drive the autopilot! That would require either keeping the original artificial horizon, or buy an completely new auto pilot. The only way to get the full benefit of the vertical guidance, and coupled approaches was.... You guessed it! A new autopilot. An additional $20K!!! I decided just to buy a used KNS80 ($500) and keep the old stuff. Hopefully they won't do away with ILS, and VOR approaches until I quit flying, which at my age (75) won't be much longer.....
Very informative, particularly the nuances mentioned. For the yaw damper question, its more important for the back seats, near the CG you don't feel the need as much. So, if you spend 90% of your time with only the front seat filled the yaw damper is just an option. However, If the A36 is your weekend get away machine with the family, they will appreciate the YD.
Thanks - yes, I will go with the yaw damper. - Martin
Looking forward to seeing you
Great Choice Martin...
Martin, you make about the best vids on KZhead, certainly the most thoughtful and logical. I enjoyed you sharing your thought process on your new autopilot although I kinda knew where you'd end up. I once told you my interest in Bonanzas had been rekindled watch your vids, but I will now admit I'm looking for a PA46 for the following reasons: 1) Pressurization (a game-changer in my view), 2) the cabin width is significantly greater, 3) with the air stair the ramp presence is very high, 4) It's a much newer airframe, and maybe a few others. I only wish I could convince myself to step up to the P&W but the acquisition and operating costs scare me. Also as I age I'm not certain I should be traveling at 250kts ...
Hi Doug. Nothing wrong with the PA46 - it's a wonderful and very capable airplane. I have two problems with it myself - one, I don't fit in the cockpit (my knees make any aileron movement impossible); and two, the typical maintenance cost on the Malibus is magnitudes higher than what I pay for the Bonanza. But it sure would make a great travel airplane! - Martin
I'm flying a TR182 and I'm having my panel completely redone in September. I had a very similar choice set as yours - with the exception of the GFC600, which I would've chosen if it was available. Still, the GFC500 is extremely capable and I'm excited to get it installed. Be aware that panel lead times are insane at the moment, we scheduled our panel in April with the expected install time in September. Fly safe and see you at Oshkosh!
Thanks for the feedback - and see you in Oshkosh! - Martin
Martin awesome job on the comparison. I own a 3100 in my 210 and it works awesome, that being said I think I’m one of the lucky ones. I would have opted for the Garmin but it wasn’t certified when I did my panel. Once you start working on your panel its a slippery slope to well north of a 100K. Best of luck and I hope to meet you some day.
No kidding - this stuff gets expensive in a hurry. Glad to hear your 3100 works well - it has the potential of being a capable autopilot when installed perfectly; it's just that too many installs seem to be unsatisfactory, installs done by the same shops that have no problem installing another brand of autopilots and make it work well. I believe that says something about the 3100. Regards, Martin
Great analysis Martin. We chose the GFC-500 based on many of the criteria you selected especially keeping the Autopilot engaged at the MAP. It is so simple and works flawlessly every single time. Do the three axis with yaw damper, in turbulence you will really notice it. Auto pitch trim a must as well. VNAV functionality and underspeed protection will, as we did, make us trade in both our IFD-540s for a GTN 750xi and a 650xi. It was a paradigm shift for sure (I like the customizable screen on the IFDs) but am glad we did it in our Piper Lance. We went with the two G-5s with expectation of a G-3x touch or similar in a few years. Loose the vacuum system if you can as well.
Lots of good suggestions there. I will do the yaw damper for sure - too many people have told me they didn't and then regretted their decision later. As for the rest... we'll see 😁 - Martin
Nice video. And the yaw damper option is definitely not "overkill" on an A-36 Bonanza install. Well worth it.
I will add the yaw damper, yes - too many people said they didn't only to regret their choice later. - Martin
Martin, Thanks for this video. It was very thought provoking, as well as interesting. I had been thinking of upgrading my STEC 55X in my V35A Bonanza, but I think that you talked me out of it. There isn't anything wrong with it - I just thought upgrading to the 3100 might bring me some new features. I put that thought on hold. I have the GTN 750/650 combo with the G500, so Garmin GFC500 makes more sense for me. The GFC 600 is not approved for the 35 series Bonanzas. Thanks again for the video.
You are welcome, David. I don't want to rule out the possibility of future improvements of the 3100 which could in theory bring it closer to the performance of the GFC600; though at the present time, I cannot recommend it. Maybe stick with your 55X for a little longer if it's working to your satisfaction. - Martin
I've had the same thoughts with my STEC 60-2.
The 3100's super detailed preflight seems to be an STEC thing. The STEC 55X has 60 steps (70 with a yaw damper). In the 55X it's mostly a super detailed breakdown where, for example, testing heading bug function is broken up into 7 individual steps. Sadly, it fits the profile of the checklist that begs to be ignored. No wonder it put you off. I suspect most pilots consolidate the steps into a more pilot-friendly format.
70 steps - oh my. I am a big believer in checklists, but they have to be short and concise. The worst checklist is one that never comes out of the side pocket because it's too cumbersome to use. - Martin
@@martinpauly you and me both!
Waiting for similar EFIS (Garmin, Aspen, Avidyne, Dynon, etc.) video discussion. Hurry . . . Oshkosh and discounts are coming. Thanks, Martin, for all past and future videos!! 😗
I look forward to sharing the rest of the story... and of course to flying N70TB again! - Martin
Nice video on your selection. When the video started I called it completely wrong based on your current equipment. Your breakdown makes it easy to see how and why you made the selection you did. You didn't mention if your wife held any sway regarding the budget...
Thanks, Eric. Speaking of budget... as you noted, I am not going for the lowest-cost route. I really wanted something that I can still be happy with ten years from now. I know it costs a little extra right now, but I believe it's the best choice in the long run. - Martin
Upgraded my bird from a KFC250 to a GFC 600 and 600TXI. No regrets. The EFIS is great but the AP is the game changer. Excellent video as usual.
Thanks, Rick - I can't wait to get mine back and start flying with it! - Martin
Great Analysis!
Thanks, Tim. - Martin
Great analysis, Martin. I've known some folks happy with their 3100 installs, but it makes a great deal more sense as an upgrade from an existing S-Tec, than as a new install. And, as you've noted, there have been issues - disappointing coming from an established manufacturer in the space. One can hope that stable ownership will allow for better development. So, if you're ready for comprehensive panel surgery, you'll bite the bullet and go with something like a G3X or a G500 and... everything else! But, spending your money like I spend my own (and I am not loaded!), in your bird, it'd be 2 GI275s, the GFC600, *yes* on the yaw damper and keep your Avidynes. Thanks for sharing the adventure!
Thanks, Spike. I have decided that I will go with the yaw damper - too many people said they love their autopilot but wished they had gotten the 4th servo. As for the rest - I can't wait to get the airplane back and tell the rest of the story. - Martin
Very instructive, thanks.
Thanks, Harry. - Martin
Questions Questions Questions! I dream of an autopilot for my uncles 62 skylark. It had a "Nav-o-Matic" wing leveler, but thats not very useful. I look forward to seeing you at OSH as well!
GFC500, G3X, GTN750, GTN650, G5, GTX345 in my V35B. XM radio comes thru GTN750 because of limited inputs behind the G3X. I've had some issues with the YD servo shutting off AP but otherwise very happy w/Garmin choice.
Dual GI 275s with a Garmin autopilot is rock solid option for your plane. The beauty of the 275s is if you are comfortable with your current avionics they will integrate a wide array of legacy avionics Navs. As well they need minimal modifications to your existing panel to go in. So much cheaper than a large EFIS display. If you ever do want to upgrade from that setup you can easily go with either a TXi set up or G3X and move your ADI 275 to a standby instrument, and the HSI 275 can be sold, traded or repurposed as an MFD or EIS. If you do go with any radios it would be wise to go with at least one GTN Xi. 6xx or 7xx.
Those are some good thoughts! - Martin
I wished I saw your video before I got my GFC500 on my Piper Arrow. I would have spent so much time perplexed!! I went with the GFC500 since I had GNS530W and GNS430W and it was cheaper. You can't use the GFC600 with the GNS unit. Thanx for the great videos.
You can absolutely use the GFC 500 with the GNS530W an GNS430W - they are compatible. What makes you think they are not? Regards, Martin
I like your choice with the Garmin suite. I’ve slowly been going that direction with my Cherokee 140. When I bought it, it was basic and no gps. I have since installed a new audio panel, gns430, a pair of G5’s and in August, it’s getting a 750. The criteria originally was to be fully Garmin integrated. The 750 will officially be the last thing I do with the radios, but next, I’ll be installing a gfc500 and a pair of G3X touch displays, and removing one of the G5’s. Some people may be wondering why? My reason is why not? I too, am vlogging the progress and I will share it this fall when the new work begins happening. There’s something to be said for upgrading from legacy equipment. I think it makes flying more enjoyable and safe to fly, especially in the IFR environment. Thank you for sharing your story. I look forward to seeing how everything turns out. We can meet for breakfast at Bessie’s when it’s all done and trade stories.
Thanks, Nick, and good luck for completing your upgrade - sounds like you have a good idea if where you'll be going ultimately. - Martin
Martin I feel much better about my GFC 600 knowing you did the research and chose the same one I have. My autopilot does great and can fly the plane much better than me. I hope you are able to fly your A36 to Oshkosh this year. I am planning to be there also. The last time I was there was 1982.
Thanks, Gary. Fingers crossed that everything will be ready for Oshkosh - but if not, I'll still be there, just not in the North 40 with the Bonanza. - Martin
So just to help you, I had a Century 3 and it did the same thing. Just a FYI Mineral Wells the Factory overhauled it several times. For that reason I went through the same process you went through. However, I did went with the GFC 500 with YD. I upgraded to GTN 750, 2 G5’s and GI 275. I loved it.
Brian, yes, I know there are people who can maintain and repair these old autopilots. But I hope to fly N70TB for many more years, and therefore now seems like a good time to pull the trigger on one of the new digital autopilots. Regards, Martin
I was choosing between the Stec 3100 unit and the GFC 500. I waited a long time for both, in order to upgrade my stec-30. In short, STEC really blew it. I would have liked to keep the STEC-30 servos, but the 3100 was priced too high and not certified for my A/C. I got the GFC 500. I am happy with the GFC 500 bordering on ecstatic. It does everything. I have had it for more than a year now and am still learning about it. I do vectors to approach and dial the vectors using heading mode, then with the approach armed, it automatically switches to the approach when crossing the final and flys the full approach. That is just one example of many. I have even figured out a way to have it hold an engine out glide to the nearest airport for me so that it can handle the workload while I go through the restart checklist. I plan to practice this a lot. I guess it goes without saying that I have an all Garmin Panel. I started with a 430 when I got the A/C, and I have been really impressed by the fact Garmin keeps supporting its older units.
Sounds like you made a good choice, Scott. I can't wait to get my Bonanza back and experience the Garmin autopilot myself! - Martin
! ! ! AWESOME PRESENTATION & CHOICE ! ! ! However, I Think Garmin’s Competitors Are Not, Let’s Say, “Too Excited” With Your In Depth Explanation, Despite They Are All Pure and Simple Facts 🙏🏻! Look Forward To The Next Video ! Congratulations ! Very Happy For You ! By The Way, The MCP (Mode Control Panel) You Showed in The Comparison With The Garmin Is From The Beloved Boeing 777, Isn’t It ? I Have To Say That I Totally Agree With You. Garmin Has Done An Awesome Job ! Best Regards ! 👍🏽👍🏼👍🏽
We upgraded our 210 to a G3x with gtn 430 and g5 backup with gfc500 ap last year. Only regret I have was not including yaw damper. Absolutely love the rest
Thanks, Joe. I'm going for the yaw damper for my install. - Martin
Absolutely excellent!!
Thank you - glad you like the video! - Martin
Martin: very good thorough and logical analysis. One extremely small correction at 13:35 talking about the GFC 500 autopilot, you are correct that it needs an external EFIS. You state a G5 up to a TXI. The TXi units cannot directly drive a GFC 500, although they can display the AP annunciators, you still need a G5 or a GI 275 if you have a TXi Primary Flight Display. A G3X can also directly control the AP. Since you ultimately chose a GFC 600 these nuances are not terribly important for your decision…. I am currently flying a Baron with a GFC 600 auto pilot. You will love it.
Thanks for that correction - with the many display options, I got confused there. Probably not a practical issue because a typical installation will have a G5 or GI-275 as a backup to the G500TXi, but your comment is still valid. Regards, Martin
@@martinpauly Your correct most TXi’s will have the backup. My vote is a G500 TXi and GI 275 to go with your GFC 600. See how easy it is for me to spend your money? 😂
@@RMAG Let me write that check real quick 😁
I love my G3x as I wanted engine and fuel CiES data was simpler and cheaper than Txi. My friends Txi he waits for AHARS to calibrate. I jump in after fuel and taxi off.
Great Video Martin as always, I say design a new clean panel layout easy with CNC and Cad systems today. You certainly did bring out the pluses and minuses of the other systems that may make other’s think hard about what is important to them. For the what it is worth I am a BTer too, 😁🛫
Yes, the end result will look so much nicer if a new panel is cut. This may just have to be the way this goes... 😁 - Martin
Martin, I installed a full Garmin glass panel - 500Txi, EIS, G5 GTN 750, and GTN650 with the GFC 500 in my V35 over 3 years ago and wouldn't change a thing! The best thing I can say about going all Garmin is that it just WORKS!!!! There are no compatibility issues everything was designed to work together and it does so beautifully! I still have the opportunity to fly several different aircraft with a variety of different autopilots and the GFC 500 and 600 autopilots are hands down the best GA autopilots that I've ever had my hands on. I spent 41 years with the airlines and my GFC 500 autopilot does a smoother VNAV descent than the 787 used to do. Additionally, you can use the VNAV feature on every flight if you have a Garmin GTN. As an example, set 1 or 2 miles prior to your arrival airport and pattern altitude in the GTN. It will give you a 1 min warning prior to the profile, press the VNAV button and you will arrive at your programed spot every time. Best of luck with your decisions.
Thanks, Ron - sounds like a great system. Looking forward to getting my plane back! - Martin
BTW - since you mentioned the 787: I wrote some of the software for the cockpit displays. All the ARINC 661 infrastructure and the engine that drives the maps (ND and the minimap on the PFD) was created by yours truly. - Martin
@@martinpauly Awesome!!! Thank you very much! I spent a little over 5 years on the 787 and made good use of your work all over the world! I was based out of O'Hare and spent the majority of time flying to China and Europe, my retirement flight was out of Dublin. The 787 was an awesome machine and a lot of fun to fly! Now I fly the 797 ....well to be exact the tail number on my V35 is N797RH 😆 I was fortunate enough in my career to fly the 727,757,767, 777 and 787 so it seemed appropriate to fly something 797... The Bonanza is an awesome airplane - we love ours! Best of luck with all your upgrades!
This seems to be a season of total panel refits here on KZhead (Angle of Attack, Aviation 101 to name a couple.) I think we’d all like to see a new panel process, but it’s your money. 😉
Yes, that does seem to be a surprising coincidence - I made the same observation, Jeff! - Martin
👍☑ another great and informative video, tks Martin!
Thank you! - Martin
I know its becoming old but I really like the Stec-55 we have in the Cirrus. I am shopping for autopilots and I am hoping all the new tech brings those older ones down in price. Also, I can't wait to share a cold beer with you in a few weeks Martin! See ya soon!
First round is on me, Bryan - see you soon! 🍺🍺 - Martin
Check out the dfc90, slide in replacement for 55x
I fly a musketeer with no autopilot. All approaches hand flown. I'd love a simple wing leveler. Congratulations on the new trip extender.
Thanks. I practice regularly with and without autopilot, because you never know when a failure or electrical problem happens. But on long trips, I sure like the benefit of an autopilot so I can be more rested for the approach and landing phase. Regards, Martin
Great choice Martin! I thought you would choose Garmin, from the beginning) Have a nice flights.
Thank you! - Martin
One more thing to note, some of the VNAV limitations also come from the navigator, I have a garmin GNC355 (cheaper than GTN) coupled with GFC500, it cannot do VNAV. I'll be surprised if the GFC series will play nice with non garmin navigators
Yes, that's something to look out for. - Martin
I had a similar decision back in 2020, fix the Century IV in my V35B or replace with a digital autopilot. Looking back through the logs the Century IV had been repaired 9 times in 15 years. I installed the GTN750 in 2018 so I decided to go with the GFC500 with a G3X. I am currently working on an instrument rating and my instructor is amazed with the functionality of the new autopilot. I really like the integration of the Garmin suite. I did not install the Yaw Damper. The C4 did not have it, so I don’t know what I’m missing. It can easily be added later. I did not plan to install the G3X but wanted improved reliability over the independent steam gauges.
Good choice to pair the very capable GTN750 with a modern EFIS and autopilot, Gary. - Martin
Martin - pull your panel out and sell what's valuable (the GPSs). Cut a new panel with 2 GI 275s, a GTN 750xi, and your new AP. The a36 is one of very few airframes that will support your effort in value, and the AP installation is so invasive it will amortize the install cost of your other components. The 2 GIs enable you to keep a 6 pack look and scan, as well as obviating the need for a backup on top of an EFIS.
Thanks for the suggestion, Jourdan. - Martin
I have a gfc500 on my saratoga, it’s a sweet piece of tech, but I think you need all garmin (actually with my g3x it’s really nice)
Looking forward to what you come up with. I will be at OSH22, We’ll have to get a beer.
I'm not one to turn down a beer - see you in Oshkosh! 👍 - Martin
I would keep your GPS and transponder and get a g3x touch. Sale your current engine monitor to recoup some of that money and get the gfc 600...it will be amazing. The new garmin autopilots work as well as the g1000 one does.
good choice. I'm going with the GFC 500 in my plane. One item you didn't mention is that the S-Tec units don't play well with Garmin avionics (GI 275 or the G5). so they'd eliminate a future upgrade to garmin.
Exactly how I proceed when it comes to make some choices. Would not be surprised if you tell me that you re a scientist. GFC600 coupled to a G600 TXi would be dope!
My background is engineering (computer science) - so yes, pretty close 😁 - Martin
Great analysis. I have a KFC 200 with an Aspen ProMax PFD and Garmin GTN750 in my Commander 114B. The KFC 200 works great, but I would like to have vertical guidance for climbs or descents. In regard to the yaw damper - I have one and I do use it when I have backseat passengers.
Thanks, Stephen. I know the 114 is a very comfortable airplane, even in the back seats - would you say the yaw damper makes a noticeable difference for people in the back? How about for the front seats? - Martin
@@martinpauly I can't notice any difference in the front. My back seat passengers do notice the difference according to the feedback that I get. Interestingly, the yaw damper I have is a STEC yaw damper separate from the KFC 200. You can use the yaw damper when hand flying without the KFC 200 AP engaged.
@@millerliteliker Thanks, Stephen.
I thought you would go with the DFC90 but I didn’t realize the drawbacks. I have a G500TXi, GI 275 and GFC500. If you get the right shop I see no reason why the GFC600 wouldn’t integrate with your Avidyne equipment. The GTNs integrate very well as you might expect but I suspect your 540/440 would too. I use the TOGA button on every takeoff. It’s nice to have the Flight Director on and armed for the climb out. On the KFC200 I used to have in my Saratoga years ago the TOGA button was a small button on the left side of the quadrant throttle lever which meant just before advancing the throttle I could push the TOGA with my thumb. Sadly that won’t work with vernier controls. I look forward to seeing the final product and I am positive you will love it.
Thanks for your feedback and thoughts, Martin. I can't wait to get the plane back - and tell the rest of the story. - Martin
Thanks Martin. Great video as always. Do you know the ball park delta in cost between the GFC500 and 600 systems?
Hi Timothy. You can check the Garmin website and you'll find that the difference between a GFC500 and GFC600 is a little over 10K, though that assumes everything else is the same. Remember that the GFC500 requires an additional Garmin display as the autopilot computer, so you will need to add that to the comparison - or maybe not, if you will add the display to the GFC600 anyway, even if the autopilot doesn't require it. Installation cost largely depends on the number of servos, and I would not expect any significant difference between the two models. Regards, Martin
Well done and we did the very same thing for the v35B but never considered the 600…it was more a cost benefit thing. And we also will install the 275’s to help. So M…now the real Q is. Do we remove the entire six pack? Our entire panel is Avidyne..540 and 440. Transponder and comm panel as well. Forgot to mention we currently fly with a century 2000. All tough decisions and never a perfect resolution. But the work flow is key no matter way you go. Looking forward to seeing the rest of your story and Tks for doing all u do for GA.
Thanks, Ben. I can't wait to get the plane back and share the rest of the story. I do like the GI-275; they are very clear and easy to read and provide a lot of functionality in little space. - Martin
I don't have a 275. My G3x with the flight path marker same as 275 is magic. Not sure how 275 goes with in-flight crosswind...... I have to go to full screen sometimes to find the marker when offsetting 15° or more.
Excellent video, as always. We’re discussing the same. We have the KFC150 and that does fly an ILS without GPS guidance, so maybe we’ll take the GFC600 to keep that ability. We will leave the six pack for now and renew it with 2 G5 and a GTN 750.
Hallo Erik - schön, von Dir zu hören! Viel Glück mit Eurem Upgrade! - Martin
I am a little confused. Martin sort of mentioned this....so the GFC500 won't couple to an ILS approach? Doesn't sound right. I understood if GPS was out it reverts to roll heading mode. Does the GFC500 have a GPS overlay on an ILS approach?
@@peterg9466 Hi Peter. The GFC500 can fly a coupled ILS approach, but only if GPS is working (which is 99.9% of the time). Without GPS, its lateral modes are roll or heading, but it cannot track a localizer or VOR radial without GPS working. Regards, Martin
@@martinpauly Thanks Martin love your analysis. I intend to get GFC500 to replace my century 2000 and complete my upgrade for PA32. I just find it fascinating it relies on GPS. I may do a 750i later. I can't justify VNAV 10,000' and below. The banana arc for VNAV works magic on G3x, same as the IFD. I went down the GNX375 and use that VNAV a bit. Am looking forward to having a TOGA on the throttle quadrant. That MAP is the most stressful for me as I don't want to get that part wrong.
Great video Martin. Question, would the GFC 600 work with Aspen GPSS and Avidyne 550 well? Also what’s the cost of you don’t mind sharing?
Great video. I have the GFC500 in my A36. It does not have the yaw damp as I’m not sure it’s worth the additional cost. I can tell you it is amazing to fly with compared to my old stec 50. Any future plane I may buy, that will likely be the first upgrade I do.
Thanks, Matt. I can't wait to get mine back and see for myself how well the GFC600 flies! - Martin
Thanks for walking us through this process! You didn't mention the option of the "straight and level" button. No one wants to think they may become disoriented, but it seems like a significant potential issue. What do you think of the availability of this function versus not having it on an AP?
I think a "straight & level" button can be a good thing to have, especially for new pilots. I can't say that I have ever felt the need for one in my 35 years of flying, but who knows - the day may come. - Martin
My bet on Martin's upgrade after this video is now solidly on a new panel with Gamin equipment to go with the GFC 600. Key phrases like "Long Term", "Integration" and "Full Functionality" "Cost is not the only Consideration" gives some good insight. Garmin PFD, GTNs, Transponder, etc. He may keep the JPI and audio panel...maybe. The only question now is did he choose a white or grey panel. I was leaning to the lower cost option but not now. Can't wait to see the reveal video.
I don’t know. Didn’t Martin just put the Avidyne equipment in a few years back?
Walter - lots of good thoughts there, but I bet in the end you'll be surprised when I can reveal the final outcome. Oh, and if I do get a new panel, it will be gray. More to come soon... - Martin
@@martinpauly Will definitely be surprised and looking forward to it... He did put in 2 Avidyne units, JPI, Audio panel and Transponder recently. I'm now leaning towards an Aspen PFD & MFD (with a gray panel) to go with the rest of his SOTA equipment. The 600 AP has more functionality with Garmin equipment and I would suspect less integration and software upgrade issues between vendors but he probably could not get enough for trade in value. Looks like it might be a "Best of Breed" avionics architecture vs. single vendor. I'm really looking forward to the reveal because he leads avionic design work for a living... not your average Joe/Jane designing a panel in his/her spare time. I'm also definitely interested in the gray vs. white panel decision if it is not purely for aesthetics.
Thanks Martin. Lots of interesting information. I wondered (even though I know it is not a particularly relevant question), when you gestured "press the TOGA button", do you have a TOGA button already in your current setup? Also, where is the button located / going to be located?
Thanks, Robert. I did not have a TOGA button for the Century III (there is no such option), but the GFC 600 will have one. It can be installed in different places. In my plane it'll be next to the throttle lever. - Martin
Martin, I appreciate all of your videos. While not a Bonanza owner I have a Mooney Ovation 2 that has an IFD 550/540 and a KFC 225. I actually love the setup and wouldn’t miss not adding GPSS and VNAV controlled descents. Personally I always hand fly all my approaches from the FAF just to stay on point. I’m really interested in what your decision with the Avidyne will be. I like those better than the Garmin options and wouldn’t want to remove them unless absolutely necessary. Despite what you have decided please address my scenario as there are a bunch of folks like me sitting on the sidelines just waiting for a good autopilot upgrade solution for our Avidyne that won’t cause problems. Thanks and keep up the great work! N783SY
Hi Steve. You asked to "address my scenario", but I'm not sure what exactly the question is. Sounds like you are happy with your setup, so there's no real need to do anything, right? As for "a good autopilot upgrade solution for our Avidyne that won’t cause problems" - the DFC90 is a good choice if it can be installed in your airplane (not an option for me, as I explained in the video). I think that's something that Avidyne will have to work on in the future, because good as the IFD is (I really do like it), if there is no compatible modern autopilot, that's a real problem for many people. - Martin
Ouch - I have a 3100 on order to replace my 55x. I still think the STEC will provide a good value, verse a complete Garmin GFC600 install. That's pretty expensive and the GFC probably won't play well with the IFD 550 and 540 I have. Install quality is a major factor also. My guess is you go all Garmin in the future. Anyway, thanks for the videos they are awesome!
Best of luck for your upgrade! - Martin
Once you're done you can publish the flowchart, Autopilot Decisions, Start to Finished Panel.
Yes, Sir! 😁👍 - Martin
Where are you getting it installed at? Spencer Avionics isn't a far hop and everyone there I've dealt with in getting a GNS275 was great to deal with!!
Martin, you really made this video for your wife. A pencil sell. Seriously, I figured you would go with the Garmin GFC 600. Great choice! 👍👍
Good guess, Ellexis, but no - she is more interested in doing an interior upgrade - the seats, carpet, and headliner could definitely use some work. And she wants a pink copilot seat - we'll have to talk about that one a little more... 😁 - Martin
I'd have to go back and look, but I think I guessed it! And I think if it were me, while everything is all apart, and since the panel has been modified already, I'd go all new. PFD and yaw damp. Disclaimer, that's just me, I'm not writing the check on this one. I was pretty sure it wasn't the aerobatic conversion. LOL The long install must be because of servo's and rewire? With the new engine, it will be like a whole new airplane when its done!! Congrats! Great video on choices too!! 8) --gary
Thanks, Gary. I'll go with the yaw damper for sure. As for the rest... time will tell! 😁 - Martin
Even if you don't have a Bonanza, the same diligent method of analysis can be used to help you decide what's best for you. Great work.
Thank you, Chris. Usually, half the battle is knowing what you really want - from there it usually gets easier. - Martin
Good luck with the GFC 600. FWIW, I love the GFC 500. I did most of my Instrument training and my checkride in a 172N with a GFC 500, dual G5s and a GTN 650. With this stack I’m able to fly perfect IAPs and published missed app procedures. Feels like cheating.
Thanks, Kevin. Yes, it does feel like cheating - I know the feeling from other airplanes I've been instructing in, and I can't wait to "cheat" in my own Bonanza - hopefully soon! 😁 - Martin
Great research....but you omitted one very important fact...does the Garmin, like Otto, come with a manual inflation tube?
Thanks, David. I will have to ask Garmin, for there is no mention of an inflation tube in the GFC 600 install manual or pilot guide. 😁 - Martin
Excellent video! I‘m already looking forward to the next one. Viele Grüße aus Hamburg.
Vielen Dank, Tim - und herzliche Grüsse aus Iowa! - Martin
I flew a plane with a working autopilot once. Seemed like a nice feature.
Ha - that's funny! 😁 Good to see you at the pancake breakfast this morning, John! - Martin
In my days my Bonny only had a wing leveler 1974
Fortunately the Bonanzas are a joy to hand-fly. And yet, on a long cross country, I arrive at my destination much more relaxed and alert if I didn't spend the last four hours flying straight and level by hand. - Martin
Love Martins videos, but of course it’s the avalanche of well- I’m upgrading this, of course I need a new (fill in the blank). An efis?? $20k more
Yup - hard to control where this process ends, Jeff! - Martin
@@martinpauly Love your videos, hope I didn't come across as condescending. I just sometimes start watching these and know ahead of time it's going to end up with the whole package :)
I love my Dynon unit
I really like the Dynon PFD, and the price is hard to beat. The rest of the typical Dynon system... well, it's a good system, but it's not the best out there in my opinion. - Martin
If you decide to go Garmin navigators, I’ll take your IFD440 :-)
Martin, you don’t seem to do anything half-assed so I suspect we are going to see a full Garmin EFIS when you’re done.
We'll see in a few weeks, Mike. 😁 - Martin
In your analysis you forgot to list Otto the inflatable autopilot, although I think he is strictly for Part 25 aircraft, from what I have seen.
You are right - I don't believe my A36 Bonanza is on the AML (Approved Model List) of Otto's STC. 🤣 - Martin
Good luck getting someone to answer the phone at Century Flight. Zero support. Go with Garmin!
My experience too. I got my 2000 serviced, paid a heap of $$$. I believe they put in defective parts, similar to another guy I found out after the event..... called and wrote many times. Lodged a complaint with FAA. Nothing happened.
Martin, One comment confused me. You said that the GFC 500 stops verical navigation at the FAF. It can fly a coupled approach, though, so isn't glideslope intercept verical navigation?
Hi Steve, the comment was about enroute VNAV, which is different from flying approaches with vertical guidance (ILS, LPV). So those are two different things, and of course the GFC500 can fly coupled instrument approaches. If I remember correctly, even the VNAV limitation I mentioned about the GFC500 has been eliminated since the video was made. The lack of navigation tracking without GPS is still a differentiator between the 500 and the 600. Regards, Martin
@martinpauly Thanks, Martin. Much appreciated information.