Ep. 102 | Riflescopes - Everything you ever wanted to know (Part 1)
We didn’t expect to need two parts for this topic, but there’s just so dang much to talk about when it comes to riflescopes! Lightweight Dave joins Mark and Jimmy once again, this time not to talk about sawing his toothbrush in half, but to discuss all things riflescopes. How they’re made, how their optical systems work, how our eyes interact with the light they funnel through their many lenses, what parallax is and what parallax adjustable scopes do when you spin their dials, and so much more! Minds were blown for this one as usual and we’d love to hear from you about what further riflescope topics we can discuss in Part 2. Let us know!
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Nice job. I really enjoy these podcasts as they're not just way to shamelessly plug their own products but real information that can be applied to our own lack of understanding.
I think my brain is gonna bust. Info overload. 😂 I have just been binging these podcasts. Great info! 👍
For those concerned about mounting screws backing out without loctite, buy a paint pen and put on some witness marks. That way you can get everything torqued down correctly and visually confirm that nothing shifted.
A smart trick that I have never thought about until I read this. Bravo!
I loved that posdcast guys! A Part 2 is welcome! Here's some questions that could be answered: What do you sacrifice when shorthening a riflescope? What are the downsides of doing so? How do you shave off weight on riflescope if you still want it full featured? How do you manage low light performance of riflescopes? Cant was a good thing to talk about too… Dave seems to have a different thought on that topic than the F-class guys… You could also define terminology used to describe image quality… contrast, resolution, brightness, etc. Thanks again guys!
Now THAT was a ton of fun. So many fun facts and many myths dispelled. Part II - yes please. . . . Recently made the decision to cancel a Nikon purchase and go w/ a Vortex product. Looking forward to experiencing my first Vortex (glass) scope. Will mount it with a "Vortex" product as well. Good times ahead.
How about one that explains damage ar10s or scars do to scopes? And I would love to learn why it happens
You guys are great. Vortex is high on my short list of phenomenal firearm accessory companies and I know if I choose wisely for my particular application, I can't go wrong with Vortex. They have scope for everyone.
This was a great one gents. Makes washing dishes go by mich faster. I normally listen on podcast but came here to say keep up the great content. Cheers
Much appreciated! Thanks for listening!
I know I'm late to the party as this is a 3 year old video but Light Weight Dave, when you have 69 year old eyes a laser bore sighter is a handy tool. If the gun moves any while doing this you still know where to move the reticle. Pro tip: make sure you remove it before that first shot.
Loved this one from the get go, 3 years later. For your glass guy, just wondering where he got his optics degree? Have an "old name" in the biz and wondering if he trained uner my dad
Could you do a pod cast on determining scope power out in the field? Let's say you have a 3x9 and your deer hunting. Your target is 100 to 400 yards. How do you choose what power to use?
That would be a cool topic to dive into! We'll see what we can do. When it comes to what magnification to use, it really comes down to personal preference. As long as you are able to get on target and feel comfortable shooting at that specific magnification, that's all that matters! The only time a specific magnification will be required is if you are shooting a second focal plane (SFP) and you are using the reticle to hold over.
It arrived yesterday number Six Vortex optic. After the arrival of Viper PST 1-6x24, earlier this year, boy, I was blown away by the glass, so I had to have another to replace another optics from another company the new optic is Vortex PST 3-15x44mm mounted on an AR-15 6.5 Grendel 24” barrel (match grade) built about two years ago. This build needed a better optical system to go with the build with the match grade barrel. Thank you, Vortex!
Another great video, cleared-up some questions I had!
That's great to hear - thanks for tuning in! :)
You guest this episode was very imformational. Would you be able to explain why some scopes have clarity to infinity while others have snappy shallow focus depth? Asking because your vortex razor 1-10 seems like has amazing low power clarity but on higher power is less clear than cheaper scopes (but obviously has better glass overall). Wondering if parallax adjustment would fix that or if it is inherent to maximizing fov on 1x
Who makes that handguard?
Recommendation on scope for a winchester 300 win mag my eyes aren't the best I'm 57 been hunting all my life quality has changed I haven't really keep up I hunt in Alabama whitetail deer shot distance varies I most comfortable shooting under 200 yards. Budget 800. And under I was lookin at vortex viper hs 2.5x10x44 30mm tube wat are other options thanks
That analogy he made at the beginning was very interesting. I literally had the same exact thing happen with a fully loaded M&P9 mag that I lost. I had gotten out of my car a couple days earlier, heard something drop and I forgot what I thought it was but I never found it... A few days later when I realized on of my mags was gone I suddenly understood what happened 🤦♂️
Interesting points about how FOV effects other design choices. Personally I love a wide FOV hence love my 3-15x44 PST. I wish the new LHT 3-15 and 4.5-22 had kept the stupid wide FOV as found in other Vortex scopes. I'd happily pay more money or higher weight to keep the HUD type effect I get from other Vortex scopes I own.
i want to know how there scopes do in low light or back in the woods on a cloudy or rainy day or when the snow is falling when there is not much light . And the deer is sneaking through the pines will you be able to see the deer to be able to shoot it. that is the question.
Whats better Diamback 4-16 or 6-24?
Like Adam below, I am also binging on these podcast episodes. I came into Vortex products by accident but a happy accident. I had decided to finally get into hunting a few years ago and my first rifle (I have more, now) is the Mossberg Patriot .308 Win combo with the Vortex 3x - 9x / 40 mm scope with the Dead-Hold BDC reticle. One boss of mine, more knowledgeable than I am, gave high marks to Vortex optics even though he often puts Leupold on his. So, getting more rifles after that, I stepped up to the Diamondback Tactical 6-24 / 50 mm FFP because I really like that reticle and the magnification. And then, this year, the Venom came out so I bought three of them. And I just bought another light hunting rifle to drag through the bushes and put one of the Diamondback Tacticals on it. I had put my Crossfire II on there, which is a good scope, but I have grown so comfortable with the EBR-2C reticle and it is only about 9 ounces heavier. So, my rifle is still weighing less than 11 pounds total. What caught my attention was the remark about color aberration. How, once you see it, you cannot unsee it. Recently, there was another channel doing scope reviews and he gave a disappointing review of the Venom 5-25/ 56 mm FFP. By this time, I only had one. I would go on to buy two more. He showed video of having the scope mounted to a block at the range and did the box test. Also did what he called the titty twister test. That is where he uses both hands and runs back and forth and sideways, like he is spinning a stick and starting a fire. And it passed that. I will say that I have never seen anyone need to do that or what purpose it serves but it was entertaining and I guess the cheaper scopes have tracking problems after that. In fact, about the only thing he did not do is mount it on a rifle and shoot with it. His chief complaint was color aberration at the edge of the glass. He shows it in the video. Whereas, the other scope he is comparing to does not have this aberration. Full disclosure, from his own statements, the competing scope he gives the thumbs up to, he is an affiliate of that company. I will wait while you google the legal definition of affiliate and marketing affiliate. I am a fan of Vortex optics from personal experience, no compensation, they do not know me from John Q Public. I buy my own gear because I like it and it is for me the best price for the quality that I want and need. I have seen others review the scope he really likes and they found color aberration and some warranty problems. Everyone gets problems. If you did not ship a defective unit out today, that is because your doors were closed and you took the day off. It happens to everyone. But, with Vortex, you can call, email, or go through the website and either someone answers the phone during CST business hours (not quite an hour west of Madison, Wi,) or within 24 hours. I have three Venom scopes and I do not see aberration on any of them, bought at different times and knowing what to look for. So, then, I asked myself, "Self, what is the big deal about color aberration at the outer edge of the scope? Does that affect tracking or established zero or even how accurate the rifle is?" I could not see how it makes a difference, even if you can detect that. Nor is it explained why having color aberration at the outer edge is a bad problem that makes the scope no good. If anything, I would think it is a sign of coating of the lenses. But, also, I am not aiming at the target with the edge of the bell. I am usually aiming with the center cross hairs, maybe one tick for wind. So, was the aberration essentially a straw boss? Something to have that can be seen as a defect and therefore this product is inferior? Also, surprise, surprise, both companies, this other company and Vortex, are getting glass and assembly from China, Japan, and the Philipines. And I am not complaining. Sourcing good parts at good prices is what makes these optics affordable. There is some kind of foo foo Gucci notion that your scope can only be good if it has german glass and costs more than $4,000. And so the distinction was raised that the Venom only has 85 MOA run of elevation, approximately half of that if you put in the Rev Stop. So, go ahead and run the drop sheet for .308 165 grain to 1000 yards. Not quite 23 MOA. And here is a spoiler - most guys competing to shoot over 1,000 yards have a rail canted at 20 MOA or more. So, yeah, the 85 MOA scope is plenty and will get you to 1,000 yards without a canted rail. And it cost 50 dollars more than that other scope and has the unbeatable warranty that all other scope companies compare to. No, really, seriously, the scope reviewers cannot help but compare to the Vortex Lifetime Warranty. In fact, one of the reasons given by others to hate the Vortex Venom has nothing to do with the Venom. "This one time, at band camp..." There was this guy who had a Strike Eagle (basically the Venom is a Strike Eagle without illuminated reticle and without locking turrets. All depends on what you need in a scope.) It seems he had a loose reticle. Well, for that scope, the reticle is etched in glass. It was just before the start of hunting season. What he could have done was call Vortex help line and say, what can you do to help a brother out? In the mean time, he could have bought a cheapie from Academy or even put on on of the other scopes he might have, just to get through the first two weeks of hunting season. No, what he did was go ahead and go through the hunting season with a scope that had a reticle not staying still (so I do not know how he was going to take a shot.) And then, after hunting season, returned it for warranty replacement and got a new scope, no questions asked. And complained about having to use warranty. And this became the reason to crap on the Venom. So, buyer, beware of the reviews that you see and the cults of personality. I have seen one review team review two different rifles built the same way, each with a synthetic stock almost indistinguishable from the other. And then give glowing reports of one and crap on the other. Because they have favorites and it is more about praising what they like than being objective. A long winded way of saying that not only do you get great value for the money with Vortex, you get a university grade level of education in all subjects related to it. Signed, Ron, the unrepentant "Vortex Fan Boy."
We truly do appreciate all of the support and feedback, Ron! That is awesome that you recently got into hunting! Any cool hunts on the books?
@@VortexNation nothing fancy, per se. Public hunting land. I have entered a few draws with the Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept. Management hunts at Cooper WMA and USFS (US Forest Service) for doe permit with rifle at the Caddo (pronounced kay-doe) National Grasslands WMA, I live not too far from that. Otherwise, the bag limit there is one buck, either spike or legal spread of thirteen inches between main beams or wider than alert ear tips. I think I might enter the draw for mule deer hunt at the Cap Rock Canyon but my schedule usually does not allow for that kind of travel. It is near Amarillo, about 6 hours away. So I usually hunt at Caddo because it is just about an hour away. But maybe by next year I will have the budget for a guided hunt. There is a place not too far away (north of Dallas and not too far from the Red River) where 1250 gets two days for a buck, a doe, and a feral hog. I have some business colleagues who might get me in somewhere. I have been given slightly more than a month off to deal with a family medical thing.
@@VortexNation also meant to add that dove season started today. I may sneak in a morning or two with #4 upland and small game 12 ga in my Mossberg 590A1 SPX (yes, it came with a bayonet.)
@@ronstone5953 Heck yeah - those all sound like fun hunts! You'll definitely have to keep us posted with your draw results and how they go!
Q re the Parallax discussion. It was described as focus of the image to the reticle plane. How much more / different is the focus done by the focus ring?
The focus ring? Are you referring to the diopter on the eyepiece? That is the focusing of the eyepiece to the second focal plane. Parallax focuses the image down onto the reticle plane, which is the first focal plane. The diopter can have an effect on your image for sure, but it's mostly a focus for the reticle in most high magnification riflescopes.
Brain is broken. I watch a few other videos about leveling the scope. I don't bother with a level. I tried once, nothing worked out. I eyeball it. I can see an imaginary vertical line up from the action and continue with the vertical in the scope. Have not had a problem, yet. The only concern about the cant of the scope is that wherever the scope is level, zero and shoot your bullet there. It is literally no different than if you did it with the rifle completely longitudinal. I have done it both ways, as far as bore sighting. I have bore sighted manually with my eyeballs. I have sighted with my laser, which is built into a .30 case that fits up into the action. I have laser bore sighted at home across the long back part of the house, which is not 10 or 25 yards but it usually gets me on at 25 yards. I am often using an indoor range with motorized target holders. I like going there because there is no wind. However, I like the outdoor range because I have more room to spread out on the big wide tables with the table leafs for your trigger arm. Word to the wise, I have stripped screws in scope rings. Having the torque tool set (mine is, of course, is the Vortex 10-50 lb torque wrench mounting kit in the plastic screw on tube) is absolutely necessary. I think most guys are like me, they have more than one rifle and are changing scopes and rings and even rails. That torque wrench (totally affordable through Amazon, where I got mine) pays for itself the first time you use it. Definitely call the tech line if you torque down to 18 ft-lbs and still get movement. For example, i shoot .308 Win. No less than 150 gr, usually 165 and higher. 2570 fps or higher. I have had a scope move. So, I set up so that the objective bell is just in front of the forward ring. Stops the travel. I totally understand now about the loctite. Really, it might be better to not use it and just check with the torque wrench before each use. I have also torqued to about 20 or so. I think the limit of 18 is enough to hold it and to discourage guys from cranking to 50 lbs, which is tighter than the ring bases.
Is it fact or perception that European glass are superior to Japanese or Chinese or US glass?
When you asked the expert "what is the difference in glass between the low cost scope and the high cost scope" he should have just answered "I don't know"
This is way technical for a person who doesn't already know a fair amount. For example, lots of discussion of Parallax adjustment equipment design issues. However, no actual description of what incorrect parallax does to the shooter's view through the scope. In A 101 format I need definitions. I need descriptions of basic effects. Eye relief, what is it? Field of view, what is it? You make it clear they are tied together, but don't explain what they are.
Fair points - there’s only so much we can cover in the designated time frame. Luckily, all those details that we go over in a more high level way we also cover much more in-depth in other episodes. For example - if you’re curious about “Parallax” specifically - here’s an episode all about that! - kzhead.info/sun/iKpudLOboGaFkps/bejne.html and we have episodes around many other topics you might be curious about too. Field of view and eye relief we don’t have any specific episodes on yet, but we will certainly mark those down to speak to more specifically in the future! Thanks for tuning in
Or scores with display
1) thanks. I need this 2) I'm only a few minutes in and have 2 Q Q1) when said that two lenses are glued together and move (I think for turret adj.) why 2 that are glued - why not one that's more odly shaped? Q2) Why aren't there more questions?!?!
Sometimes two lenses that are glued together are sandwiching another element between them (Perhaps a reticle, for example) and there's many limitations that come into play with lens machining, grinding, polishing, etc. As much as we might want to make a crazy shaped lens, as soon as you start venturing outside the realm of most common lens shapes, things get extremely complicated to manufacture on a large scale and extremely expensive.
When I buy a scope the true question is which Vortex scope am I gonna get. 🤔 Best Scopes for the Money on the market at every price point. The other optics brands only make sense if you wanna spend more for the same if not inferior optics. 💯
We appreciate that, my friend! 🤜🤛