What Being a Big Law Attorney is *REALLY* Like | Cece Xie | Big Bad Law
the good, the bad, and the completely average: three types of work days and work-life balance as a Big Law attorney in NYC
📥 essays, podcast & bonus videos on substack ➪ cecexie.substack.com/
✍️ ask me a question ➪ cecexie.com/ask-cece
0:00 - intro
2:07 - "average" day
4:12 - relaxing day
6:15 - high billable day
9:41 - worst day
12:51 - weekend work
14:00 - the secret to work-life balance in Big Law
more videos about law school & lawyering ➪ • law school & lawyering
law school & lawyering playlists ➪ / cecexie
frequently asked questions ➪ cecexie.com/faqs
💞 f o l l o w m e 💞
@cecexie everywhere
instagram: / cecexie
tiktok: / cecexie
twitter: / cecexie
website: www.cecexie.com
🎶 all music courtesy of www.epidemicsound.com
🖲️ co-edited with / @aftonlin
❓ F A Q s ❓
how old are you? 32 ('91 baby)
which schools did you go to? yale (undergrad) and harvard (law school)
what did you major in? economics
what was your gpa and lsat score? 3.86/176
what sign/MBTI/enneagram are you? aries, ENFJ, 3w4
are you sure you're not a virgo? no part of my star chart is virgo or an earth sign, i swear
Hi CeCe. As a former “Big Law” lawyer, I will say that the characterization of someone’s work experience is largely dependent on your general outlook. Being an “overachiever,” I would find myself being the first person at my desk in the morning and the last one out. In fact, there was definitely an unspoken rule that if your boss was still there, you don’t leave until well after he or she does. That said, a lot of the experience is dictated by the partner you work for. Regardless, we were expected to check and respond to emails constantly… on weekends, evenings, holidays, while on vacation … I would get pulled into meetings and projects during scheduled time off and if you were “unavailable,” it was frowned upon. I eventually realized there was more to life than that. Some people thrive on that constant pressure and stress. I was over it. Lol. After close to 20 years of practice, I went in house and haven’t looked back.
totally--whom you work for is the single biggest determinant of your lifestyle in biglaw, and i definitely know some folks who 150% live to work. glad you are enjoying in-house and are able to enjoy other aspects of life outside of the office!
May I ask what the consequences, real or otherwise, were if you were in a position that was "frowned" upon? I'm curious if that was more a self-imposed limitation or an actual expectation that was expressed by your firm.
@@CeceXiethanks so much and much luck to you in your endeavors! Sounds like you have some exciting things on the horizon 😊
@@CeceXie white and case , kirkland , allen and overy and all big law are the worst firm ever don't ever work their
Your nuance, presentation and articulation of the way you express your experience is always a pleasure to listen to Cece. Thank you for what you've done so far and thank you for keeping it real.
i'm so flattered to hear that, thank you!! i have been studying and trying to home my youtube craft lately so am glad that someone thinks it's paying off :)
the presentation of this is everything. i'm not in law, never planned on it and never plan on it, but i enjoy your videos anyway because of how captivating your narratives are, especially when you discussed the high billable days and steered a change in perspective to unpredictability being the con in that case rather than just hours, cuz of course everyone expects the work to be a lot, but it's true that no one knows WHEN to expect the work to be a lot. i feel so informed and entertained at the same time whenever i watch you either here or on tiktok, hope to see more from you!
This was a really cool video to watch! Getting into college, my parents were pushing me to do law or medical but I ended up going software engineering. Interesting to see the parallels and differences.
Loved these insights!! And advise! Thank you
Hey Cece, Thanks for this amazing video! ✨ This video makes me realize that I want to minimize “unnecessary pain” in my life, could you make a video about how to do so (eg project management, planning ahead, reaching deadlines/goals) and maybe incorporate how to deal with necessary pain? I believe that would be so helpful for so many people including me 😄
I’ve loved your content since day 1.
ive concluded that any job where you work with people (....so every job out there) has unnecessary pain
Thanks a bunch for this clear, concise, absorbing overview of big law! As someone who’s seriously considering pursuing a career in it, it’s terrific to have someone, like you, who’s been through the process, and is willing to reflect on, and share, their experience and thoughts. Do let us know when your book comes out - I’d love to read it! ✌🏼
I love the way you presented this-- lots of information but the days-in-the-life were entertaining and I love your sense of humor. More please :)
thank you!! you got it :)
Hi Cece, as a past Delotte tax lawyer I’m baffled by the high proportion of BILLABLE hours vs hours spent at the office. We would get max average 5 billable hours in an 8 hour working day, and in order to make 8 billable hours (without feeling that it would be unfair to charge the client all of the time), we‘d have to do around 11 hours in total at the office. There are always so many things that need to be done that are not billable, such as writing a service proposal, negotiating it, giving input corns colleague’s proposal, switching from on client to another (I’d mostly work on 5 to 6 different mandates every day). Who‘d do all that stuff if you’d work 11 billable hrs out of 11? I feel we did it wrong…. 😢
Hi! I was looking for a comment like this... As a *somewhat* big law attorney (not in NYC), I typically bill around 7-8 hours per day while being in the office for at least 11 hours. However, I do notice that Cece's most intensive work days seem to be focused on one deal or client/file, which in my experience makes it easier to bill more hours (no switching in between tasks and clients so you can basically stay clocked in the whole day...).
great video! thanks for the insights!
Thanks for the video
Absolutely brilliant video Cece. I'm always in awe of how helpful you are and your focus on being open about the inner workings of big law. I would just say that I thought the music was a tiny bit loud in proportion to your voice. I'm probably biased though since I prefer hearing the speaker's voice over background music in videos. I hope you have had a wonderful November. You rock!
thanks for that feedback! was it overall or just during the tiktok replays? my sound mixing is admittedly more of a disaster for my tiktoks bc i didn't have the hang of things then heh
@@CeceXie Oh I should have clarified! I meant for this particular video. Your tiktok replays are sometimes muffled in sound but it's perfectly audible! It doesn't detract from your content being high quality but I thought it might be helpful to point out the volume. I hope you have a great day!
Practice is about impact & optimising a client's situation. I believe that learning from a sole practitioner creates the most rounded lawyers. Any lawyer worth their salt should be happy to draft a Will, draft a Trust Deed, be able to draft commercial contracts competently before even looking at any template / precedent documents, draft civil litigation pleadings, brief witnesses, organise a criminal defence, do property conveyancing, undertake M&A due diligence, make planning applications, deal with employment law issues etc - this is basic stuff for a well trained lawyer.
Gosh the way you described the typical day, but how did you have continuous energy to work for 10 hours then workout then work more at home
Hi Cece, great video! I have a request. Could you make a video about how you developed your strategy and boundaries? What were your considerations in that process? Also, how did you manage your time and go about prioritizing tasks?
i cover a lot of my strategies in this video: kzhead.info/sun/q96moLqveHOiaHA/bejne.html take a look and lmk if you still have questions!
@@CeceXie oh yes! I’ve noted these down. Thanks, Cece!
I would definitely read your book.
okay cece, let's talk about the green book on the shelf at your back. JK! haha as an aspirant T_T GIRLL TYSM the video was overall giving like you
See, this is what we call a “job.” One that pays very, very well. There are many jobs that pay a fraction of what you earn and are far more difficult. Perspective is important.
Interesting video. Alot of these videos from different channels where people quit good well paid corporate jobs whether its law, finance etc to do social media full time or other things. When with the latter you are not guaranteed a fixed income that you can live off. Ok I do understand that you have more free time, but that's not the best sometimes . Anyways, admirable that you can do this.
Great speaking voice!
I wish she did a full video on with all the tiny ones
Cece, I enjoy hearing about your journey to self-employment. I'm on the same journey myself. I love the idea of a legal firm for content creators 😁...I'm trying to serve that same niche as well as a registered financial/tax advisor. I'm glad you escaped big law to pursue your own dreams! Have a good night!
it's a sorely needed area of expertise for creators! sort of reminds me of what www.trykarat.com/ is doing. best of luck with your business--i'm rooting for you!
I’ve just tried to comment and it showed there are rules for the comments, I like that. What I was gonna ask was when does your book come out? And what’s the title?
The fact that drops for reducing eye redness are adversed here tells me a lot already 😅
Hi Cece, I’m also a former biglaw attorney. I would love to connect sometime!
Do you think being an investment banking analyst or a big law attorney worse?
Heyyyyyy, lofi girl crew!!!
always and 5ever 🩷
Nope. I'm in the top 20% of my law school class and you couldn't pay me to do BigLaw. I'm not giving my youth to a firm that sees me as a number. Every girl/woman I know in BigLaw is miserable because their personal relationships are suffering. I still want to date, travel, have fun, and spend time with my family. But I need to be intellectually stimulated so I'm going the government route.
I do wanna say that my first introduction to your channel was the advertisement you put out about the Texas and Florida laws that provide protections for our first amendment. I'm curious what is your stance on social media being able to both benefit from section 230 as utilities, and act as publishers deciding what content they allow on their sites at the same time? Those are directly in conflict with each other. Section 230 says they can't be held accountable for what users say on their platforms, because they're treated like a utility. The difference is my phone company is also a utility, and they don't have the ability to ban me or control what a say and text through my phone. Why should social media sites have that benefit of having it both ways? Could you explain that from a legal perspective? Or is that more based on emotion instead of common sense and logic?
Thank you for asking civilly. It's a fair question, and I'll do my best to explain. Legally, categorizations under one area of law can be different from categorizations under another area of law. For example, in another arena, "speech" under the First Amendment is not necessarily "expression" in copyright. I know it's lovely to think of all U.S. laws as cohesive and unified, but that's far from the truth--U.S. law is a patchwork system of laws and regulations passed in response to certain lawsuits, world/national events, and/or lobbying. Section 230 is a telecommunications law, which means that it develops separate from constitutional law. Of course, sometimes the two overlap, and courts must resolve those overlaps, but for the most part, different areas of law do not develop perfectly in step with all other areas of law. Section 230 was enacted in 1996 with one goal in mind, which wasn't related to constitutional law; the First Amendment was enacted much earlier with other goals in mind. We are only more recently seeing how the two overlap and possibly conflict, as our use of, and reliance on, technology evolves. Due to how little people used the internet back in 1996 for "speech," free speech considerations just weren't large when Section 230 was being debated and passed. Does that make sense? I don't think my stance matters here--and the advertisement that you're talking about doesn't advocate for one position or another--but this is an interesting tension that has arisen more recently. I'll be curious how the courts resolve this conflict.
Cece you should do your skincare routine video someday. if you want......
i’m working on one 🤫
As a blue collar worker, I have rarely had jobs that worked less than 14 hours per day, including commute time. Oh, with either no lunch, or 30 minutes for lunch. That I had to pay for, and it probably cost more than I made per hour. My fault for being born poor. Big Law work schedule sure seems like a dream.
Well don’t forget she has to carry undergrad and law school debt.
didn't you go to court during your time?
a few times, yes! but big law litigators don't actually go to court that often except for pro bono (because big law litigation is so expensive and most clients would rather settle the dispute before trial)
@@CeceXie I'm trying to decide if i want be become a lawyer or not and i'm not sure at all. I'm current a freshmen in college majoring in behavioural neuroscience
I have a video on the question of how to decide whether to go to law school: kzhead.info/sun/ZtSwf5Rla3x9d4U/bejne.html
... but what if it was like suits lol
then my name would definitely be on the building hahaha
@@CeceXie 💯🙌🏼🙌🏼
What the hell did you say to me. You better goddamn work like they do in suits if you want your godamn name on the godamn wall. edit: I apologize, i probably shouldve used like 5 more goddamns to truly quote suits
Are big law firms willing to accommodate disabilities? I have epilepsy and sleep deprivation can trigger seizures for me 😵💫
No hope for you.
this might not be the best option for you tbh. i would work at a smaller firm in an easier practice area
Go with a less-stress non-profit, etc. Being a "big law" attorney will result in many sleepless nights.
sounds hideous. And all women thinking of joining the law profession should look at the stats 3 years out. Misery.
yet another asian making a video related to being an attorney. FFS
who hurt you?